Clippers Need a SF and a Good Back Up Center (P. 5)

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tense2
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9037
votes: 21

Well I think most people understood it was an upgrade....even a guy like you who doesn't use "numbers".

See Dudley/Redick trade thread. Happy reading. wink

tense2
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9037
votes: 21

Most every (if not every) NBA team has an advanced statistical/matrix dept. It's the sign of the times.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wi ... story.html

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnatio ... r-the-nba/

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnatio ... r-the-nba/

jarca
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 8024

rp.gif
votes: 35

I know what you're saying. You're actually a sensible stat guy who uses stat but it's not the end all be all. Tense on the other hand thinks stats is final and doesn't post anything except links. Lol

jarca
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 8024

rp.gif
votes: 35

Demoted to bench and now being shopped. What an upgrade Very Happy

ClipperPostman
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1390
votes: 18

Screw your advanced stats. Dudley suck ass this season

and Caron Last season was way better than Dudley this season.

If you can't see that you need to get your eyes checked.

tense2
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9037
votes: 21

I though you like the trade at the time. See no advanced stats link. Razz

tense2
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9037
votes: 21

I never ever said that. Your mind set, not mine. wink

jarca
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 8024

rp.gif
votes: 35

I love it so much people called me a hater Very Happy

jarca
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 8024

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votes: 35

You never say anything except links. That's my point Razz

cleepers
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9048

us.gif
votes: 117

...or your crystal ball.

I'm pretty sure that nobody had prior knowledge of Dudley's play THIS year... LAST summer.

tense2
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9037
votes: 21

If it's that big of a problem for (which it sure seems) ya then do yourself a favor and put me on ignore and you won't have to suffer though those links and you can keep on evaluating players by who you "think" is better or whose. To each his own I say.

tense2
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9037
votes: 21

Though so. By the way, how did you like that Mullens deal since you're on a roll. Hindsight is great, isn't it.

AirGriffin
Clipper Starter
Posts: 569
votes: 4

Anyway possible we could get Wilson Chandler? I think someone like him is just what the clippers need! Decent 3 point shooter, really athletic, good defender and rebounder, and gets to the line. And he is still 26! Would love to see him come to the Clippers

ClipperPostman
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1390
votes: 18

I like Wilson Chandler. Not sure why anyone in there right mind

would give him up for Crudley or barnes.

jarca
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 8024

rp.gif
votes: 35

Like Turkolu lol

jarca
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 8024

rp.gif
votes: 35

And deprive myself? wink

tense2
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9037
votes: 21

So far so good. Hope it continues. Don't mind eating some crow if it helps us win. wink

tense2
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9037
votes: 21

Good, then prepare to suffer. lol

pageC4
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4751

us.gif
votes: 24

a couple of people have brought him up. Chandler seems like a good player. It would take a lot of teams involved because the piece they want to trade away is Andre Miller.

-clippernation-
Clipper Rookie
Posts: 93
votes: 0

I'll take anyone at this point. We really do need an upgrade, Barnes and Dudley are trash.

cashdld
Clipper Starter
Posts: 434
votes: 3

step 1-trade reggie bullock, matt barne and byron mullens for glen davis

step 2- trade jared dudley,jamal crawford, and willie green for wilson chandler,randy foye, and darrel arther

depth chart

cp3/collison/foye

reddick/foye/vujacic

chandler/turkoglu

griffin/arther/jamison/davis

jordan/davis/hollin

Clipperfan9
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1480
votes: 1

Step 3 - win a championship. Those seem like plausible trades, however for the Denver trade I think we might be getting too much from them, depending on how other teams perceive Jamal's value. But since Nate Rob went out they are in need of a scoring sixth man. Make it happen Doc.

jarca
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 8024

rp.gif
votes: 35

Glen Davis with his mid range 15-17 feet jumpers is perfect for this team.

But in think he earns 5-7 million range.

cashdld
Clipper Starter
Posts: 434
votes: 3

tried both trade on espn trade machine and they go through

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4446
votes: 44

Dudley had a good prognosis but hasn't worked out for whatever combination of reasons. Obviously the front office did more homework than "he can shoot three's" in looking to trade for him. Whether it is atmosphere, fit, injury, whatever, he has been below his norm. Hindsight is 20/20 though.

With that said, we're still selling low, and teams know that and would give less than they would at a different time for him. They also know that he's most likely still a solid role player and a different system or situation, or if the injury is actually his main issue as some thought, that resting him for an extended period and bringing him back can get them a decent deal for his production.

I know some people aren't huge fans, but a Dudley for Brand switch makes sense for LAC with Hedo becoming the 3PT shooting SF. Ideally I think if you're moving a Dudley you move Bar we too, but in summer and retool the SF position, but that's me.

Trading for a guy like Brand preserves Bullock on the team.

Denver won't trade Chandler as he's their only real SF and there's no need for them to downgrade at SF. They have a TON of guards off the bench. Hamilton, Fornier, that there's no enticement of Jamal for them.

sz123456
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 2354
votes: 13

^^Brand would help us out a lot, but knowing DTS, he would never sign off on that deal, he holds vendettas.

danielson
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 39
votes: 0

So Deng desperately wants out Cleveland. Dudley, Crawford and Barnes for Deng. This trade also makes Dion Waitters expendable for the Cavs

CapsNClips
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4081

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votes: 46

I'd only give them Dudley and Barnes only because we won't be able to re-sign Deng in the offseason he'd be a one year rental, but obviously Cavs wouldn't do that trade.

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4446
votes: 44

Are we really going to pay that much for Deng? How do we fill out the rest of the roster? What are we paying him in the off-season? Why did Cleveland do that instead of just saving mone?

Why does a team with two on ball scoring guards want Crawford? They wouldn't, but Deng would take too much cap for us

danielson
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 39
votes: 0

The Deng for Crawford, Barnes and Dudley trade worked on the espn trade machine. We still have Hedu and willie as our back ups. Cavs are losing Deng and are desperate.

CapsNClips
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4081

us.gif
votes: 46

You'd give up 3 players for 1 player that would be a one year rental? That's not smart.

danielson
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 39
votes: 0

Deng 28, is one of the leagues best small forward defender and can score when needed. He's a perfect for the club. Our bench will suffer but I'll put our starting five against anyone. Losing Barnes, Crawford and Dudley frees up 13 million. I can easily see Deng signing 3 years at 33 mil.

itsLuigi
Clipper Starter
Posts: 593

us.gif
votes: 3

it would be great if we could get davis for dudley mullens and jamison

danielson
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 39
votes: 0

This trade also worked on the trade machine. Clippers get Deng Hawks get Crawford and Dudley. This will help their playoff push. Cavs get Barnes, Elton Brand, Deamare Carroll and the Hawks 1st round pick

fullcourt
Clipper Starter
Posts: 293
votes: 5

Why would the Hawks give up a 1st rd pick for Crawford and Dudley ?

If we wanted Deng you know who we would have to give up? JJ

A relatively young starter on a cap friendly. Since Crawfords deal is cheaper than JJ's it opens up some dollars to resign Deng next year.

Crawford starts and Bullock backs him up taking over for him when Crawfords deal is up.

Dunkathon
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1122
votes: 8

Hm...

Deng is a great player in a terrible situation. I would love to have him, but I'm wary of trading Crawford and all our non-rookie small forwards for a one year rental. Plus, there are two other questions that must be asked:

  1. Will the team do well enough in the playoffs that he won't just bolt after the season's over?

  2. Will he agree to take less money to play with the Clippers?

I would only consider signing him if I knew the answers to those questions would be "yes".

danielson
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 39
votes: 0

I'm thinking the market for Deng will be somewhere between 3 years 35 million or 4 years 40 million. Deng 28, will be willing to move to la and play with chris, blake and dj. I really do think everyone comes out on top. Cavs get a 1st rounder. Hawks get couple of players that are a position of need for them. They lose their first rounder which will be somewhere in the twenties. That late in the first round you really don't know what kind of player you'll have.Plus trading Barnes, Dudley and Crawford frees up about 13 million a year.

namzug
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1114
Location: So Cal
votes: 11

I like Deng, I'm a huge fan of his. I think he would prosper on this team more than anywhere else he could end up. I also don't think he would be here more than a year. Have to agree with @Dunkathon, you don't make that trade unless you are certain he is taking a cap friendly deal at the end (and there is now way you can be certain).

I'd like most trades with Atlanta that get us Carroll or Korver.

cashdld
Clipper Starter
Posts: 434
votes: 3

how about this trade

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mj3gcfl

itsLuigi
Clipper Starter
Posts: 593

us.gif
votes: 3

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=myv5whw

-clippernation-
Clipper Rookie
Posts: 93
votes: 0

I'd rather have the players the pacers get in the trade

pageC4
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4751

us.gif
votes: 24

I love all these possibilities. Its cool to see ESPN has this feature to allow fans to make hypotheticals. I just hope we get the right trade

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4446
votes: 44
how about this trade http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mj3gcfl
I always like to 1) see the total trade outcome and 2) imagine if I'm a fan of the other team. Clippers trade: Crawford, Dudley, Barnes, Mullens Clippers get: Kirilenko, Chandler, Scola, Foye Not even sure we traded the best player out of those guys but we just ended up massively improving out team. Yea, can't see that even being remotely possible. Brooklyn trades Plumlee, Kirilenko (one of the leagues best bargains, helping them with their good play) and Evans for Barnes and Dudley. I don't get that though, why? Denver trades: Chandler, Foye, Miller, Arthur Denver gets: Still seemingly hobbled Granger who is a FA....

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chonkyfire24
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 117
votes: 0

the obvious thing to do was trade butler for ariza last year and sign andrew bynum this year. If both those things happened, the clippers would absolutely be the #2 favorite in the west.

namzug
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1114
Location: So Cal
votes: 11

It would be one thing if we were upping their trade value, but the trade value for most of these guys must be at an all time low. Unless a coach has worked with these guys in the past and really liked them, you probably aren't going to get much value in return.

The only way we get decent value in return is giving up assets that teams want. That being draft picks, young players with potential, large expiring contracts that free up major amounts of cap space, followed by good veterans on decent contracts. It depends where the teams are at the moment, as well as their culture as an organization.

So as far as trading Mullens, and Dudley maybe Dantoni is foolish enough to buy.

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4446
votes: 44

Ariza, yes, Bynum, maybe not. We have to remember that our biggest desire is defense. Bynum's movement and pick and roll defense was atrocious this season, and it's never been "good", and it's not like he was good on offense. Outside of random games, overall he was bad on offense and bad on defense, so we can't proclaim him a savior without knowing how much more progress he needs to get to a state where he's actually effective.

Of course, having Ariza might mean no Redick. But I was salivating at the idea of this defensive 1-3: Paul / Bledsoe / Ariza, so of course I wouldn't have complained, but Redick works quite well here.

It might still be possible to get Ariza, but certainly not easy. Washington is aware that they have signed Webster for 4 years and that re-signing Ariza also after they just drafted a SF in Porter might be weird, but Ariza is playing really well for them.

Their need though is a PF, probably one that can score. The other problem is that all the Clippers decent sized contracts aren't expiring, they have at least another year or two on them. At least with expiring, you can sell cap space and flexibility.

What we might be able to do is give luxury tax relief to a team that doesn't want to pay the tax by giving them a slightly cheaper player for a slightly more expensive one, but the Clippers are also trying to avoid any heavy tax burden.

-clippernation-
Clipper Rookie
Posts: 93
votes: 0

I know the Warriors said something about them be open to a trade with anyone that isn't Curry or Bogut. I'd love Iggy or Barnes but I doubt we have anything they want and I doubt they would ever trade with us.

kjavis
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1078
votes: 3

To put those 2 in the same category is giving crudley too much credit, if barnes is so trash why is he starting 8)

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4446
votes: 44

Barnes as a starter:

7.9 pts, 3.9 rebs, 2.4 asts, 1.4 tov, 40.7% FG, 39.5% 3PT, .509 TS%, 100 Ortg, 28.8 MPG

Dudley as a starter:

8.7 pts, 2.2 rebs, 1.6 asts, 1.0 tov, 45.0% FG, 37.9% 3PT, .558 TS%, 104 Ortg, 28.6 MPG

Doc is pretty precise with the rotations, they are playing almost the exact same minutes. To be honest, I was expecting to check the numbers and see Barnes actually producing decently well, even though I know many games I was thinking he wasn't playing so well, but I was just hoping, lol. I'm a bit disappointed.

Barnes has shot the three well lately though, and as a starter, at least there is that. Dudley rebounding better off the bench and Barnes rebounding "worse" as a starter is also interesting, probably because DJ takes all the easy rebounds away so unless they are grabbing those contested ones, the rebound chances are lower. Dudley is doing 4.8 rebs/36 as a reserve compared to 2.8 rebs/36 as a starter. Barnes is doing 4.9 rebs/36 as a starter compared to 7.1 rebs/36 as a reserve.

I guess they've both kinda sucked, and Barnes' scoring rate has decreased as a starter despite better efficiency (which is sad since he still is inefficient), which I suppose makes sense because when you play with those guys, there's a lot more capable scorers, and really why would I want Barnes taking a shot that Blake Griffin, Redick, or Crawford who is in with the starters a lot could take instead?

clipboard
Clipper All-Star
Age: 71
Posts: 1333

calif.gif
votes: 4

If Chris Caveman always played like he is today, we would need him. He had 27 points, in as many minutes and 10 rebounds.

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