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Clippersfan86
Post Subject: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433076by Clippersfan86 » Jan 29, 2014 - 12:13 PM PST
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Not just outsiders but I'd say a good 50 percent of Topbuzz has been living in the mindset that CP3= the Clippers. That without him the team would crumble. More specifically that the OFFENSE would fall apart. Yet without CP3 the offense has IMPROVED. The surprising part is how much worse the DEFENSE has gotten without him actually. I thought it would be more of an offensive hit than defensive one like most people.

I was always extremely offended by the notion that CP3 carries our team and get sick and tired of people giving him all the credit when we do well and none of the blame when we fail. Instead critics attack Blake, DJ and the role players. I think my opinion that Blake is actually equally as important to our team if not more than CP3 is being proven true. He's doing just fine running the team as a superstar and is nowhere near his prime.

Blake has officially taken over this team as his own and I pray that he maintains that when CP3 returns because we have always been better when we run the offense through him vs CP3 iso ball. Sure we have played bad teams but we regularly lose to these same bad teams WITH CP3.



                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433078by Voyeur » Jan 29, 2014 - 12:19 PM PST
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I think we look at last season and saw that we were basically a .500 team without Paul. And the way most of the western conference teams were playing would have dropped us significantly if we went .500 this time. As a matter of fact, I believe we dropped like a stone last season due, in most part, to Paul's injury. Also we weren't sure when JJ would be back from his injury and obviously, his addition helps.

                
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CP3Best
Post Subject: RE: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433079by CP3Best » Jan 29, 2014 - 12:20 PM PST
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Because Blake was performing nowhere to where he is now last season. He has become a real superstar that can manufacture his own shot. He is out Go-TO guy.

                
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pageC4
Post Subject: Re: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433083by pageC4 » Jan 29, 2014 - 12:34 PM PST
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I think a good deal of the perception that we would fail comes from various sources, but I'll just discuss the major one. 1. Amnesia regarding the abilities of Darren Collison: For the most part Darren Collison was not getting enough minutes to truly prove what he could do. Add to that the fact that he had to adjust to a bench role where isolation plays for Jamal Crawford took up the majority of the scheme for the bench. Darren has averaged 9.8 PPG, and 3.1 APG for the season, and these numbers rose once he was given the starters job once Chris went down. Now that Chris Paul is out and Darren is forced into assuming Chris' role as distributor we see that he can do the job, the job of a point guard, just fine. This is't saying that Darren has been averaging Chris' league best 11+ assists, but his 6.2 assist and 13.0 points per game during the last 10 games places him pretty high in regards to the rest of the leagues point guards. In short, we have one of the best bench point guards in the league but due to circumstances his abilities were not fully showcased.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post Subject: RE: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433088by CP3Heliflopter » Jan 29, 2014 - 12:53 PM PST
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Eh our offense is doing better simply because our shooters are shooting well. Instead of bricking wide open 3s like before they are making 3s at a great clip. I would say BG is definitely more valuable than CP3 because his backups are Jamison and Mullens(D league trash at best) while CP3 has Collison as his backup.

I expected us to do this well tbh. Were not a VDN coached team. We are talented enough and well coached enough to beat lottery Eastern Conference teams easily. The only games I felt we were favored to lose were against the Spurs and Pacers. The rest were games we should win. I think without CP3 our guys became less likely to slack off and come out of the gates weak. The biggest difference however is that our role players are making their shots. People seem to forget that there was a 20 game stretch where Crawford was shooting 30s% from the field, Willie Green couldn't make a 3 to save his life, Barnes was complete trash, etc. We also had no Redick so our shooting was beyond awful.

During our last road trip everyone was awful especially shooting wise. I think Doc said something about not being able to get his shooters prepared well enough. Doesn't seem to be the case this time around though.

We had multiple games during our last road trip where we shot 10%-20% from deep which is why we loss so much and to make matters worse that put more pressure on CP3 and Blake and made it harder for them to score.

                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433091by Voyeur » Jan 29, 2014 - 01:05 PM PST
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People might forget, but Blake stepped up his game last year too when CP3 went down...picking up his assists especially. Problem is nobody else was very consistent and it looked like Blake was by himself too often and even he dropped off a little. I still blame Butler for that. He's a veteran with some firepower...he should have stepped up.

                
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Icecoldclipper
Post Subject: RE: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433092by Icecoldclipper » Jan 29, 2014 - 01:09 PM PST
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Schedule was pretty easy as well really no reason to panic. We loss the games against great teams as suspected SAS and IND with a let down against the Bobcats.

Feb 3. to the all star break and after are a bunch of very hard games to win outside of Philly. The one saving grace is the break cuts up the recovery time for Paul.

                
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FightOnRon
Post Subject: RE: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433095by FightOnRon » Jan 29, 2014 - 01:51 PM PST
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History of what happens. See post 2 and 3

                
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elton_sucks42
Post Subject: RE: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433097by elton_sucks42 » Jan 29, 2014 - 02:21 PM PST
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We have had an easy stretch of opponents even with the 7 game trip. Blake has been the man sure, but we need him to continue this production when CP3 comes back.

                
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A7XDreamTheaterClipps
Post Subject: RE: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433102by A7XDreamTheaterClipps » Jan 29, 2014 - 02:55 PM PST
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Don't forget. We had 2 or 3 games without both Blake and Chris. Kind of reminiscent of the old school Clips.

                
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toohipcliptoslip
Post Subject: Re: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433107by toohipcliptoslip » Jan 29, 2014 - 03:37 PM PST
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This almost exactly what I said in a previous post and everybody got PO'd. Agreed part of our failure in the PO's was injuries but part was VDN. The Clippers of old were either a team set up to fail or a team so dysfunctional as far as players' relationships that we were doomed.There is no comparison. Kloss and Zelko aren't DJ. Piatkowski rode the pine after leaving the Clipps. McGinnis (sp) as our starting PG? As above many say CP is the key to our success CP3 = Clipps. This is the same as saying the Clips = CP and the Paulettes. In situations like Miami BG is more important.

When I was a kid even after formal lessons I couldn't learn to swim. I waited till there was a day when there were a lot of girls around then I jumped into the deep end with no instructor around and it was swim or be humiliated. It took ten seconds to learn.Lack of female companionship is a serious motivator. After that the instructor helped me. The Clipps got thrown into deep water and learned they can swim without an instructor. They will be better with one CP3 as instructor. Lawler said the we have the most efficient offense in the league without CP3. That means we have a system or style that's working at least on lesser opponents. He should plan to fit into it not be it.

                
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clipper*joe
Post Subject: RE: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433108by clipper*joe » Jan 29, 2014 - 03:51 PM PST
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I thought we'd find ourselves during this time ( see CP3 thread- "make lemonade out of lemons")...and we did. Call me crazy but I also thought BG would excel too. Yes, he was doing basically the same thing pre-injury but he's been more vocal and more like a leader. Call me crazy but the team looks more engaged now and the offense looks more fluid. Not taking anything away from CP3 but it is what it is. Yes, we've played East teams that are not considered gangbusters but it's not like those were easy wins for us when CP3 played. The Grammy road trips are not easy but we managed to do something big on this one. The man-child has finally grown up and I think Cp3's injury was a blessing in disguise. BG grabbed the bull by the horns and now the world is witnessing there is more to him than just dunking.

Oh, our shooters are hitting shots true, but I think it has more to do with the way the team is now engaged and focused. Even Crawford has stepped up his game. Kudos all around.

                
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clipper*joe
Post ID: 433109by clipper*joe » Jan 29, 2014 - 03:56 PM PST
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Well, we also lost to Cleveland, Orlando, and Atlanta when CP3 was healthy on the last road trip prior to the Grammy trip. While the competition was "easy" during this last road trip, winning on the road back east is not easy.

                
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Agent0
Post Subject: RE: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433112by Agent0 » Jan 29, 2014 - 04:13 PM PST
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Previous seasons performance without Paul, guys struggling with their shooting, not sure when Redick would be back and not sure how effective Redick would be as a shooter immediately after he came back. Not sure when Matt Barnes would stop shooting 20% from the 3PT line, but keep jacking them up. Jamal was on a 20+ game poor shooting / inefficiency slump.

....but I thought they would be fine considering the opponents. I would have predicted the same record except maybe losing to Dallas, but beating Charlotte, so...

                
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toohipcliptoslip
Post ID: 433115by toohipcliptoslip » Jan 29, 2014 - 04:26 PM PST
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CP86 what's this "sans" merde?

Real men don't speak French per G W Bush.

"All the world's a stage and the men and women only passengers", Unfortunately the stage crashes, the horses poop out or you get covered with horse poop.

Toohip 3:16

                
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clipper321
Post Subject: RE: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433118by clipper321 » Jan 29, 2014 - 04:50 PM PST
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Underrated aspect of the team since CP3 went down is ball movement. Never have I seen such fluid passing.

                
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Diamond909
Post Subject: RE: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433121by Diamond909 » Jan 29, 2014 - 04:54 PM PST
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Truth be told we couldn't survive with out Chris, for too long but we had lost games (key) games with him. This is not his team! It's Griffins, and he has proven that. Paul makes him better because Vinny, couldn't!

The Spurs, have Parker but it's not just his team but Tim and Pop through many of years.

                
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Clipswhit
Post Subject: RE: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433125by Clipswhit » Jan 29, 2014 - 05:30 PM PST
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This stretch is very encouraging come playoff time. When teams send their wing perimeter defender on CP, he knows he can trust the rest of the team with the ball.

                
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clipper*joe
Post ID: 433126by clipper*joe » Jan 29, 2014 - 05:35 PM PST
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And that there, IMO, is the difference.

                
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fullcourt
Post Subject: RE: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433132by fullcourt » Jan 29, 2014 - 06:04 PM PST
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Mass media always picks doom and gloom with even when CP was around. I don't know how anyone could watch the second half of the Dallas game and then think this team would crumble going forward without CP. Heck that Dallas win was the 4th in a row and the defense had finally started coming together.

                
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ClipperKyle32
Post Subject: RE: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433134by ClipperKyle32 » Jan 29, 2014 - 06:49 PM PST
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The reason the Clips have done well without Chris Paul this year rather than last is just a simple as this:The SYSTEM.

Vinny Del Negro's Offensive System Last Season - CHRIS PAUL System

Doc Rivers Offensive System This Season - Passing and Off-Ball Movement

I recall the game after the Spurs game when Chris went down. I havent seen A Clippers team move the ball like they did p. It was great to watch.

The SYSTEM is why the Clippers are winning and of course the superstar that he is BLAKE GRIFFIN, is playing great basketball right now. Our SGs are making shots and DJ is rebounding the heck out of that basketball.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post ID: 433136by CP3Heliflopter » Jan 29, 2014 - 07:39 PM PST
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I agree that it was a blessing in disguise(sort of). Not so much for Blake Griffin though because he was playing great even before CP3 was got injured and in my opinion he was already starting becoming a more vocal leader before CP3 got injured too. I think it was more of a blessing for our role players who seemed to be MIA. We should have won the against the Warriors and the Blazers considering how well CP and BG were playing but our role players didn't give us anything.

Btw here are the numbers for BG were putting up before CP3's injury.

Last 10 games with CP before Dallas: 26.1 PPG, 10.6 RPG, 3.0 APG, 53.9% FG, 78.3% FT, .608 TS%, 36 MPG

Without CP again after Dallas (11 games) 25.4 PPG, 7.7 RPG, 4.9 APG, 54.9% FG, 73.7% FT, .614 TS%, 35.6 MPG

Arguably he was playing better even. Pretty similar numbers. Less rebounding due to playing point forward more and more assists.

                
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tense2
Post ID: 433137by tense2 » Jan 29, 2014 - 07:42 PM PST
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Paul doesn't do too bad in the "passing the ball around" department, LOL. Only Rubio has more passes per minute then CP3; Paul 2.1 PPM, Rubio 2.19 PPM.

Here are the detail stats on passing/assist, point off, etc: http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingPassing.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=2 5

                
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Steady818
Post Subject: RE: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433145by Steady818 » Jan 29, 2014 - 09:09 PM PST
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It was more of how we came out against SA that was very concerning.. Blake has definitely taken his game to the next level this year and especially during this stretch.. I expected us to struggle massively without chris paul because we were so dependent on him carrying the ball and finding the open man for the bucket. The difference is though the team figured out how to play without him after 1 game..

                
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Clippersfan86
Post Subject: RE: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433148by Clippersfan86 » Jan 29, 2014 - 09:23 PM PST
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Lol at the notion that assists=ball movement. Paul regularly over dribbles and burns too much off the clock which HURTS ball movement despite his apg. He needs to work more off the ball and get into the offense quicker like he did the 3 weeks or so leading up to his injury.

                
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Voyeur
Post Subject: RE: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433149by Voyeur » Jan 29, 2014 - 09:25 PM PST
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I thought he was doing pretty good with that. The team as a whole was in the top 2 or 3 in overall assists I believe before he went down, weren't they?

                
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tense2
Post ID: 433151by tense2 » Jan 29, 2014 - 09:29 PM PST
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Looks like you didn't look at all the breakdowns/headings on that site. Not sure where you got the assist=ball movement from lol. Oh well.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post ID: 433158by CP3Heliflopter » Jan 29, 2014 - 09:52 PM PST
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Yep. The notion that we didn't have ball movement with CP3 is laughable at best. lol

We had plenty of ball movement and our shooters were getting plenty of good, open looks.

                
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ClippersDA
Post Subject: RE: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433244by ClippersDA » Jan 29, 2014 - 11:44 PM PST
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Those barnes missed chippies coming back to haunt us

                
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CapsNClips
Post Subject: RE: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433294by CapsNClips » Jan 30, 2014 - 12:50 AM PST
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MVP Race IMO

  1. Durant (by a mile)
  2. Griffin ( tie )
  3. LeBron ( tie )
  4. George
  5. LaMarcus
  6. Parker

Griffin has single handedly carried this team to heights that were never thought possible with CP on the bench. We went 5-2 on the Grammy trip which has never been done before by the Clippers previously. LeBron is having an amazing year, but I can't put him in sole position at #2 because Miami has been shakey with D Wade out ( for Miami's standards ) and he's playing in the East and playing crappier teams more often.

                
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CP3Heliflopter
Post ID: 433298by CP3Heliflopter » Jan 30, 2014 - 01:02 AM PST
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I don't see much of an argument for Blake=Lebron in the MVP race. Lebron has the better team record and puts up better stats. Pretty much the main things MVP voters care about.

1) Durant

big gap

2) Lebron

big gap

3) Blake Griffin/LMA 4) Paul George

5) the rest.

For the record I think Blake is having a better season than LMA who is very overrated.

                
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cleepers
Post Subject: RE: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433301by cleepers » Jan 30, 2014 - 01:12 AM PST
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^ Hmmm... the team record is negligible, and like Caps says, Blake has the more difficult job on a nightly basis. It's closer than you think.

                
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CapsNClips
Post ID: 433303by CapsNClips » Jan 30, 2014 - 01:16 AM PST
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Eh, you're probably right, but it's getting closer and closer with every game. But I definitely disagree with LMA tied with Blake. LMA's team has had zero injuries this year and his team has only a 1 game lead on us. Our team has seen J.J. go down for 6 weeks, Barnes and Bullock were out for significant time and obviously Chris Paul has been down for sonething like 15 games.

                
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Clippers_FTW
Post Subject: RE: Why Did So Many Assume The Team Would Crumble Sans CP3 Post ID: 433307by Clippers_FTW » Jan 30, 2014 - 01:24 AM PST
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Blake doesn't need to be an MVP.... He just needs to be Blake.

                
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toohipcliptoslip
Post ID: 433309by toohipcliptoslip » Jan 30, 2014 - 01:31 AM PST
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It's hard to play second fiddle when you've been the boss. It will be interesting to see what happens when CP gets back. This is obviously BG's team. Everything runs through him now. What happens when CP gets back? Does CP play off the ball a lot? This will be a test of Doc's coaching ability. If these two can turn down the testosterone life will be good.

If DJ doesn't get Most Improved Player the sky should fall.

DJ for MVP

                
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