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clipperboy24
Post Subject: Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers Post ID: 435113by clipperboy24 » Feb 05, 2014 - 09:13 AM PST
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Looks like some of us might be getting what we are asking for. Front page of hoops hype references an ESPN insider article that states the Clipps are looking to move him. http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nbarumors&id=2191 3

I am guessing its not just because he has a little injury and the Clippers think he is going to be playing better.



                
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ClippersDA
Post Subject: RE: Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers Post ID: 435119by ClippersDA » Feb 05, 2014 - 09:44 AM PST
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Hallelujah!

                
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realbull17
Post ID: 435123by realbull17 » Feb 05, 2014 - 10:08 AM PST
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Mullens & Hollins should get the boot

                
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ClipperPostman
Post Subject: RE: Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers Post ID: 435124by ClipperPostman » Feb 05, 2014 - 10:11 AM PST
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No need to get excited. Unless a GM is retarded they wouldn't give up a Waterboy for Dudley.

                
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MunoValente
Post Subject: RE: Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers Post ID: 435125by MunoValente » Feb 05, 2014 - 10:15 AM PST
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Dudley and Bullock are basically the only two guys we have strike that the middle ground of being expendable (unlike Paul, Griffin, Jordan, Redick, Collison and Crawford) but not completely worthless in a trade (Barnes, Mullens, Jamison, Green, Turkoglu, Hollins). So if we are going to make a trade it pretty much needs to involve one or both of those guys.

                
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uncool
Post Subject: RE: Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers Post ID: 435127by uncool » Feb 05, 2014 - 10:19 AM PST
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I read that we're talking to Philly about Hawes or Turner. Hawes would fit a bigger need but either would help, I wish we had more 1st rd picks to use here.

                
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LobAngelesBlakers
Post ID: 435128by LobAngelesBlakers » Feb 05, 2014 - 10:23 AM PST
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My face while reading the article

                
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Akclipps
Post Subject: RE: Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers Post ID: 435130by Akclipps » Feb 05, 2014 - 10:30 AM PST
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Doc must've been really upset with JD after passing up two open shots leading to turn overs against Denver.

                
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jarca
Post Subject: RE: Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers Post ID: 435133by jarca » Feb 05, 2014 - 10:35 AM PST
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Lol.. He was supposed to be a step up from the last SF according to some stats

                
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namzug
Post Subject: RE: Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers Post ID: 435134by namzug » Feb 05, 2014 - 10:36 AM PST
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Since it comes from ESPN, I will not hold my breath. Due to the source there is a good chance that we are shopping Barnes instead.

I hope we are really careful in moving him. I think Doc has taken chances with our signings. I have been really low on Dudley since he has gotten here. I've never really been a fan, even though I've grown to really like his team first attitude, I think this can be a dangerous situation for us. I just want him to be sure that we don't give up one problem for another. Ariza is a good option in my opinion, while Turner is a dangerous one (that could turn either way in my opinion, and I like Turner).

I actually think that only Blake, DJ, and Paul are untradeable (unless you are talking about Durant, etc...); Collison, Crawford, and Redick can be considered depending on the value (that being that we must be getting some really good value on that trade); Barnes, Dudley, Green and Bullock should bring in similar value in return; followed by the guys that you are almost trying to squeeze into a trade to get the roster spot open which are Hollins (barely, I consider him a solid 3rd center off the bench), Jamison, and most of all Mullens.

                
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jarca
Post ID: 435136by jarca » Feb 05, 2014 - 10:40 AM PST
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To be fair, Dudley was one of the few people who played defense in Phoenix. It's just that he's not starter material in a contending team

                
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MunoValente
Post ID: 435137by MunoValente » Feb 05, 2014 - 10:44 AM PST
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If he was putting up the stats he did last year he would by a mile. As is he's been about even with Butler, who was also bad. Our big drop off at SF from last year has been Barnes going into the shitter.

As for his defense, we're about 10 points better on defense with him on the floor than Barnes this year, which is kind of shocking considering how slow Dudley has been, but I think it says more about how Barnes is playing than Dudley.

                
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jarca
Post ID: 435138by jarca » Feb 05, 2014 - 10:46 AM PST
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You can't compare someone's stats on a contending team to someone in a lottery team. Too many factors can help inflate or deflate stats

                
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ClippersDA
Post ID: 435139by ClippersDA » Feb 05, 2014 - 10:47 AM PST
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I don't recall butler missing so many wide open 3s

                
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clipperboy24
Post ID: 435140by clipperboy24 » Feb 05, 2014 - 10:48 AM PST
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Seriously funny because they wanted to use Dudley's stats from a horrible team but the same people are saying how you can't trust Turners stats on a lottery team.

                
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MunoValente
Post ID: 435142by MunoValente » Feb 05, 2014 - 10:50 AM PST
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Fine if he put up the stats he did for 09/10 Suns he would have been a huge upgrade from Butler (who sucked and still does suck). It's not like his stats spiked up big time after the Suns crapped out. His rate stats were steady, he just played more minutes. 09/10 was arguably the best season of his career.

                
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MunoValente
Post ID: 435143by MunoValente » Feb 05, 2014 - 10:57 AM PST
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Dudley having by far the worst season of his career is shooting 45%/36%, Butler shot 42%/38% last year. Dudley has a higher TS%.

Butler was better creating his own shot, Dudley is a better passer. Butler is a better rebounder, Dudley is a better defender even when he's limping around.

Last year's Butler and this year's Dudley are close, this is with Dudley having by far his worse year and being paid half as much. This year's Butler is even worse.

Saying they are close in value is not any kind of compliment to Dudley though, Butler was bad last year.

                
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Akclipps
Post Subject: RE: Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers Post ID: 435144by Akclipps » Feb 05, 2014 - 10:59 AM PST
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I'm high on hawes but not on turner

                
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namzug
Post Subject: RE: Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers Post ID: 435145by namzug » Feb 05, 2014 - 11:00 AM PST
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Maybe the idea is to see how Vucevic does. If he does well then you package Dudley with Mullens or one of the other back up bigs to free up a spot. Maybe we get a solid back up big, or a quality sf.

Maybe something like this, but does that kill all the spacing. http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=njmzls9

I don't want to clog up the paint for our offense.

                
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ClippersDA
Post ID: 435147by ClippersDA » Feb 05, 2014 - 11:12 AM PST
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The eye test tells me that Dudley is not a better passer than butler. He turns it over constantly when not just shooting.

                
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clipperboy24
Post ID: 435149by clipperboy24 » Feb 05, 2014 - 11:23 AM PST
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Sorry but Dudley is not a better defender or even a good defender. He makes a few smart plays that people remember and overlook how bad his overall defense is over the course of an entire game. It's ridiculous how much clinging to straws is happening with Dudley defenders.

It's been over half a season and he still sucks and is showing no signs of injury. He has always been this slow, watch clips of his time front he Suns, it's like watching molasses.

                
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clipperboy24
Post Subject: RE: Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers Post ID: 435150by clipperboy24 » Feb 05, 2014 - 11:25 AM PST
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Oh and Butler is a much better passer not just by the eye test but also with his career stats.

                
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sz123456
Post Subject: RE: Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers Post ID: 435151by sz123456 » Feb 05, 2014 - 11:25 AM PST
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It's bad enough when you know your GM is trying to trade you. How do you play for your coach when you know he is trying to trade you?

                
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06clippersfan
Post Subject: RE: Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers Post ID: 435152by 06clippersfan » Feb 05, 2014 - 11:28 AM PST
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I am okay with trading Dudley, but what I am afraid of is the spacing. Defenders won't respect Barnes and Turner 3's. They are both shooting below 30% from 3. Therefore, more attention on Blake and CP3. At least with Dudley they have to respect his 3 point shot, even though he isn't making them right now. We just need a SF who can hit the 3 consistently.

                
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MunoValente
Post ID: 435153by MunoValente » Feb 05, 2014 - 11:29 AM PST
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It's basically impossible to argue with someone's eyeball test, but Dudley gets more assists and less turnovers per 36 than Butler did last year.

I'm not trying saying Dudley is doing well, I'm saying not Butler didn't do well either. On top of that Barnes this year is doing worse than either of them, making things worse.

If we don't trade Dudley I wouldn't mind Doc shutting down for a month to get healthy and sort out whether this is a physical problem once and for all, but as bad as our other SFs have been, we've not been in position to do that. I also don't mind us trading Dudley, but we need to better than a straight dump and actually get some value back, which might be hard to do.

                
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MunoValente
Post ID: 435155by MunoValente » Feb 05, 2014 - 11:32 AM PST
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Using Butler's career stats is silly. At one point Butler was really good player, so he's got some good career numbers, but that player is long gone. That would be like using Grant Hill's career numbers to talk about how good he was last year.

                
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Agent0
Post ID: 435156by Agent0 » Feb 05, 2014 - 11:33 AM PST
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Dudley really doesn't turn it over much at all, and I'm not sure Caron even made many passes. Dudley had turnovers early trying to make connections with DJ, but they figured it out and he hasn't had any turnover issues outside of the fact that he was already disappointing people enough that if he did it was like he turned it over 7 times.

It's not that cut and dry, all depends on role and playing style and not all lottery teams are made the same. There's no sweeping brush that can be painted about comparing production on different teams.

To excuse his play because he's on a better team also doesn't make sense because players don't have good selection, play smart basketball, defend better and hustle more on lottery teams then decide to not so that on good teams, since when does that happen? It's the opposite that you are worried about, the guy that jacks up shots and is lazy on defense because his team sucks and then trying to integrate him into a winning team.

Like we said before, Dudley had about 3-4 seasons of production on a WCF team, two approximately .500 teams who didn't make the playoffs because they are in the West and a team with a bad record and his production was consistent. Using a caliber of team as an excuse for an off ball role player makes no sense. It's not the team or how good they are, it could be a role issue, but in the end it's just him.

In response to clipperboy, Evan Turner is an on ball player who is poor off the ball. For example, Jamal last season was assisted on 56.6% of his made FG's, Turner's career high is about 6-7% less than that at 50%. Turner is at 50% this season. This season Jamal has been creating more with Doc, which seems surprising because you'd think Doc would use him off the ball more than Vinny, but that hasn't been the case! he's at 45.5%. Turner isn't some off ball player, you need to suck it up that they are a bad basketball team and watch some Philly games.

It's not any sort of secret that a guy like that will produce less counting stats on a better teams when his role is changed to off ball player. Now, if he has other skills to make up for it, it could be fine (high level defense, shooting ability, etc), but you still have to consider how much you are paying for that. If he was coming here to play a similar role, then okay he'll produce the same, though I'm not really sure why we want a guy to use 15.6 FGA to score only 18 points and to commit 3 turnovers along the way, but let's say we did, he would have similar stats. Unlucky for him, good teams usually have better on ball players who are much more effective and efficient with the ball in their hands. Paul and Blake will have the ball, Redick will be next scoring option, and Turner will default into the role of 4th option/defender who is average on defense and doesn't space the floor well.

If he's being brought in to be a 6th man type so he can handle the ball more in the quarter a game that your stars aren't playing sure, but then for this team, Jamal is much better than him as a shot creator, score and shooter, and the other 12+ MPG they have to play with the starters, Jamal fits better.

Dudley's stats and production were consistent over multiple teams. Actually this season his shooting numbers are still pretty good overall, and his biggest downfall is going on the road which has never been an issue in his career. The thing is that even this season, Turner isn't doing that well if you get past the PPG. He's just using more possessions, but turning it over more, Doc won't give him all those extra possessions, so he's what, a 14/6/3 guy (if he's playing as much as CP and Blake), at 28-29 MPG which is more of what he would play, he's like a 12/5/2 player who can't spread the floor well, plays average defense, makes almost $7M and is due for a new contract in the off-season.

How does that sound like a good deal?

Dudley has done poorly, step slow, and though his shooting has objectively been fine despite being inconsistent, he was brought in to be an elite shooter, not just better than Barnes for example.

If Doc feels Hedo can move to SF and be fine defensively, they you can look to trade Dudley for a decent big. If not, you probably still need to fill SF as Barnes has been pretty poor himself, so you would have to try and trade for one.

We'll see what they try and come up with. Usually a players value doesn't tanks after just half a season of poor play, so there will still be teams who feel that in the role on their team he could be more productive.

                
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Akclipps
Post Subject: RE: Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers Post ID: 435157by Akclipps » Feb 05, 2014 - 11:33 AM PST
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http://www.clipperscentral.com/clippers ... 014/02/04/

Bullock dudley for hawes? Do u guys think its a good trade?

                
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Laak
Post ID: 435158by Laak » Feb 05, 2014 - 11:38 AM PST
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I'd take that trade anyday, another talented big is what we need. Shooters like dudley and bullock are much easier to find.

                
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clipnasty
Post ID: 435159by clipnasty » Feb 05, 2014 - 11:41 AM PST
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Philly wants first round picks, not a 28 y/o guy on the decline, under contract until 2016

                
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CapsNClips
Post Subject: RE: Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers Post ID: 435161by CapsNClips » Feb 05, 2014 - 11:47 AM PST
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Now that we are somewhat linked to LeBron's potential teams next season I say we keep Dudley as a trading piece or trade him for somebody the Heat would potentially want for LeBron.

Trade Dudley/Barnes/2 future 2nd round picks for Turner/Anderson

Then in the offseason

Trade Turner/Jordan/Jamal/2 future 1st round picks for THE ONE AND ONLY LEBRON JAMES!!!!.......and Norris Cole

                
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Agent0
Post Subject: RE: Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers Post ID: 435163by Agent0 » Feb 05, 2014 - 11:51 AM PST
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Lol, we're not getting Lebron.

                
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pageC4
Post Subject: Re: Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers Post ID: 435164by pageC4 » Feb 05, 2014 - 11:51 AM PST
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glad to see the front office realizes how bad of a signing this was. you can't always get every trade right, and from time to time you make bad decisions...everyone does. but the true measure of a good organization is how they correct these mistakes, and it looks like Doc and company are trying to move this guy. whether they can find a taker is another issue but I at least applaud them for acknowledging there is a problem and trying to fix it

                
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Agent0
Post ID: 435165by Agent0 » Feb 05, 2014 - 11:54 AM PST
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Generally no one cares for those type of players since they can get similar talent from the D-League

                
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tense2
Post ID: 435166by tense2 » Feb 05, 2014 - 11:55 AM PST
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Hmmm....thinking like someone else I know. wink

In the 1st deal Philly doesn't want that stuff so that won't work.

                
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Agent0
Post Subject: RE: Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers Post ID: 435168by Agent0 » Feb 05, 2014 - 12:00 PM PST
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In the end, this has been Dudley's biggest issue all season, even more than rebounding or sometimes getting best on D:

Home: 10 PPG / 2.3 RPG / 1.5 APG / 50.3 FG% / 44.3 3PT% / 64.1 TS% / 27.8 MPG

Road: 6.2 PPG / 2.0 RPG / 1.6 APG / 39.8 FG% / 26.8 3PT% / 46.5 TS% / 26.1 MPG

Tanks in shooting. He goes from 13 pts/36 at home to 8.6 pts/36 on the road which makes sense when your TS% is 18% lower. What exactly is at home that makes him decide to not suck, or maybe the question is what is on the road that makes him forget how to play basketball? His career is par home/road, so what gives this season that he become the league's worst road player?

                
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tense2
Post ID: 435169by tense2 » Feb 05, 2014 - 12:02 PM PST
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Maybe we got the "Pod" instead of the real thing...ekkkkkk!!!

                
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Agent0
Post Subject: RE: Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers Post ID: 435170by Agent0 » Feb 05, 2014 - 12:04 PM PST
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Maybe he has a twin that goes on the road while he stays at home.

A 10% FG and 17.5% 3PT difference is insane though. On the road he shoots 3's like an awful shooter and at home like Stephen Curry

                
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WinningBasket
Post Subject: RE: Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers Post ID: 435172by WinningBasket » Feb 05, 2014 - 12:15 PM PST
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Must be psychologically hard on a player to remain upbeat and positive when his name is bandied about in the trade rumor mill. Too bad Jared hasn't played consistently well for the Clippers to squash these rumors. But then again, most players seem expendable at some point in their careers.

                
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Akclipps
Post Subject: RE: Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers Post ID: 435173by Akclipps » Feb 05, 2014 - 12:17 PM PST
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Link

I know spencer hawes can shoot 3's excellent on FT and can grab boards but i didn't know this guy has really high badketball IQ and can dish really good for a Center. Average 1.6 blocks too! He really is a good fit on our team in my opinion

                
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pageC4
Post ID: 435174by pageC4 » Feb 05, 2014 - 12:27 PM PST
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Pau Gasol is also going through a very similar situation. Basketball teams are a business and they usually move players when the believe it will make their team better. I feel bad for Dudley on a personal level, but then again as you said if he played consistently his name wouldn't be the subject of trade rumors. As you said all players are expendable at some point

                
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Silasie
Post ID: 435175by Silasie » Feb 05, 2014 - 12:27 PM PST
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I was thinking the same. If he is traded I hope it happens soon cos it might make him play worse after hearing these rumors. It can't be easy on him.............but I don't feel that sorry for him with a paycheck like that.

                
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Silasie
Post ID: 435176by Silasie » Feb 05, 2014 - 12:29 PM PST
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Pau has been through it a lot over the last few seasons.

                
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pageC4
Post ID: 435177by pageC4 » Feb 05, 2014 - 12:32 PM PST
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yes he has. The Lakers are at a crossroad right now. Their core of Nash, Bryant, and Gasol are aging and all three are on the decline. With Gasol's production down the Lakers are planning to move him as well. Maybe for draft picks or simply cap space.

                
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CapsNClips
Post Subject: RE: Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers Post ID: 435179by CapsNClips » Feb 05, 2014 - 12:33 PM PST
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Dudley has gone to the line a total of 36 times all year, that can happen from your starting SF. I'm pretty sure Jamal goes to the line that much every game.

Ryan Hollins has gone to the line 44 times. FOURTY FOUR times!

                
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MunoValente
Post ID: 435181by MunoValente » Feb 05, 2014 - 12:37 PM PST
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This why injury is a fairly logical explanation (on top Rivers saying he's injured several times). The type of injury he has needs rest and you just don't get when you're traveling and playing the NBA. I've been in favor shutting him down completely for back to backs and significantly cutting his road minutes in general or completely shutting him down for a period of time, unfortunately our other SFs have been so terrible it has been difficult to do anything like this.

If he's still on the team in the playoffs, I could see him doing significantly better, with more time between games and less travel.

                
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WinningBasket
Post Subject: RE: Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers Post ID: 435182by WinningBasket » Feb 05, 2014 - 12:37 PM PST
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Yeah, Pau has had an up-and-down response to being on the trade rumor mill for a while now. I guess he's used to it and has been able to block it out and just play the game. When all is said and done, the NBA is a business first, and players, however expendable, are being paid rather well than the average Joe. So I ought not to feel sorry for these guys, lol.

                
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Silasie
Post ID: 435183by Silasie » Feb 05, 2014 - 12:41 PM PST
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On the one hand it must be rough because other people are making decisions about your life and where you live. On the other, they are getting paid millions to play a game for a living. I look forward to playing ball all week and I have to pay for the pleasure.

                
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CapsNClips
Post ID: 435185by CapsNClips » Feb 05, 2014 - 12:43 PM PST
CTB MVP X1


Posts: 3038

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Rep Post +1
votes: 31

Of course we're not getting LeBron. There's a 0.000001% we get him.....but that 0.000001% chance still makes me drool.

                
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clipperboy24
Post ID: 435189by clipperboy24 » Feb 05, 2014 - 12:46 PM PST
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4660
Reputation: 411.3 Rep Post +1
votes: 37

I would love to keep bullock but Hawes would be a great pickup.

                
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