Rumor: Jared Dudley Being Shopped by the Clippers (P. 4)

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-clippernation-
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Am I the only one here that's not that big on Wilson Chandler?

CapsNClips
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No, I think he's totally overrated.

wessleejr
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He is the one that looks like a JV now. Smile

pageC4
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Chandler may not be the ideal small forward, but let me ask you two questions. Do you think he's better than Dudley? Do you think trading Dudley and getting Chandler would make this team better? I think thats the issue for me. I really dont want the best SF, Lebron, or even one in the top five. As long as he can provide some offense and ok D I would love that

-clippernation-
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If you really think about it though, are there really even that many quality SF's that will be free agents this summer? Hayward (Who some other team will overpay for) Pierce, Marion, Granger, Gay, Deng then it just goes downhill from there.

pageC4
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Well, as we see from the factions here on how we view Dudley it would be hard to say what we all consider a drop off from that amazing group you lsited. I'm curious what don't you like from Chandler, and who would you rather like?

Agent0
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We can't get Chandler for Dudley, so any scenario in which Chandler is coming involves a more valuable player than Dudley going out. No, not Dudley plus scrubs to make contracts work. There's no incentive for Denver to take Dudley for Chandler, actually not even Jamal. If we want Chandler, were thinking more "is Chandler more capable than Crawford" because if Denver actually needed a player like Jamal, that is who it would require, not Dudley.

So yea, Chandler is certainly better than Dudley, but that really doesn't help us.

-clippernation-
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I really don't know. I doubt we are fixing our SF situation anytime soon but I want a guy like Tony Allen. I like Deng too even though he's probably too expensive.

CP3Heliflopter
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That really isn't the problem. The problem is why would Denver downgrade their SF position to Dudley? What is the incentive.

jazclipcity3
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In doc we trust........

Do you guys think we will trade DUDley or do you think doc sees something that we all don't?? And if so do you think Utah would take him for Hayward?

Akclipps
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If we're trading dud sf to sf i'll probably go for marvin williams. Dude is tearing it up on 3's and board. He's not bad on defense too

Agent0
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I've been wanting that big SF that can also play the 4 and mentioned Williams before, so I agree about him.

There's always a but though....Marvin Wiliams is (or would have been) an option for the off-season when his contract expires, of course we already also signed Matt Barnes for 3 years and killed some flexibility there. Williams would have been a nice $4M type signing as a SF/PF, but if we have both Barnes and Dudley, it would,make no sense to be investing $11M on three average (currently two below average) SF's. Williams makes $7.5M right now though, so that's not really an option.

He's also expiring, so if the Jazz don't want him back, it makes no sense for them to trade him for the longer contracts the Clippers would offer and lose their flexibility in order to acquire mediocre players (Dudley/Barnes).

TheDude
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  1. That team is falling apart, 10 days from now they could decide to pack it in for the season. Dudley represents a 2mil per year savings vs. Chandler.

  2. Give them a pick or Reggie Bullock.

  3. Gallo is their guy and they have a lot of money invested in him. Dudley is a more complimentary type piece, representing a low cap number for a true back up and he's more versatile being able to play 2-4 spots. He's also a guy who will accept his role as a bench player.

  4. If you can figure out a 3 team trade that gets rid of Miller and brings them a similar talent, it's an added motivation.

Agent0
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That's a decent production drop for a team not close to luxury to try and save $2M (actually less because of Bullock's contract). They can pair Chandler and Gallo at the 2/3 in the future since Chandler is actually a 2/3 and their current starting SG is Randy Foye.

Clippers don't have picks to trade right now, and while Reggie sounds nice, they have these guys on their bench:

Jordan Hamilton, 6'7 SF, 23 years old, 26th pick

Evan Fournier, 6'6 SG, 21 years old, 20th pick

Quincy Miller, 6'9 SF, 21 years old, 2nd round pick playing

If they trade Dudley and Reggie for Chandler, because of Reggie's contract, they actually only save like $800-900K and they add more of a log jam (2 more players) to the wing where they already have (outside of Chandler): Foye, Hamilton, Fournier, Miller.

I don't know man, don't see the incentives here.

itsLuigi
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http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lhghove

might work

-clippernation-
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Why would the nuggets make that trade?

itsLuigi
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they're not making the playoffs anymore, might as well get something for next year

-clippernation-
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I understand the shedding salary part but how is Thornton and Jimmer anywhere near the similar talent of either Chandler or Miller. They'd be able to get way more somewhere else.

Agent0
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Their best player is Lawson, so why trade for a PG and small SG in Thornton? If they want to get something for next year, don't you think draft picks, or young players that fit into their roster would make more sense as opposed to just random guys from Sacramento?

If I'm saying what is a trade the benefits Denver with Chandler going out? What Denver needs to do is actually trade one of Hickson or Faried. They really shouldn't have signed Hickson, such a stupid move. Denver would be looking for a trade to get a better offensive big man. So think someone like Greg Monroe.

Denver would probably be more inclined to do a move like:

Chandler / Hickson

for

Monroe / Jerebko and someone like Bynum

Detroit moves Smith to PF, plays Chandler at SF and Hickson is their backup PF/C. Better spacing and roster balance, and they don't sign Monroe to a big contract that makes no sense if they still keep Smith.

Denver gets a solid 23 year old future big man. They run a front-court rotation of Monroe/McGee/Faried because Monroe can play PF and C. That's a trade Denver would be looking for. They won't be looking for trades primarily around mediocre SF's or SG's. If they bring a wing, they would be looking to bring one that is better than their current crop.

itsLuigi
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i was thinking more of jimmer for andre. i just used thorton for his salary and because denver needs a better sg.

danielson
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As much as I would hate see Collinson go, his value could not be higher than right now. Include Dudley and a draft pick with Collinson and that should get us a solid starting small forward

Laak
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What about backup PG?

danielson
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How about Collinson and Dudley for Farmar, Jordan Hill and Wesley Johnson. Offensively both Dudley and Johnson are limited but Johnson is a solid wing defender. Plus we get a solid back up center. Lakers get their young cheap point guard (reason why Lakers do this trade)

cleepers
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^ Dude, your trade ideas are pretty unrealistic... not to mention, terrible.

-clippernation-
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I wouldn't want any of those guys.

tense2
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Love to have Jordan Hill...maybe next year.

-clippernation-
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Isn't he injury prone though? Never been a big fan of his.

MunoValente
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Our SFs haven't been terrible the last few games, certainly better than Wes Johnson. There is a decent chance one or both of them get their crap together and stay consistent before end of the season; a stretch of home games and the all star break might them give work out some of the issues they've been having.

cleepers
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^ Totally agree. The only way is up.

wessleejr
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mullens for jordan hill, the rest a big no.

LobCity21
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What do you guys think about Trading for Kaman in my opinion we need some big man help and he knows the fundamentals, I did a trade machine and dudley for him and Shawne williams as a throw in works, if they want more we can throw in a pick too.

Jerediscool
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I'd go with no on that lobcity. A) why does everyone want the trash on the lakers bench? That team is so awful we shouldn't want anything from them. B) why do people want ex clippers back all the time. That dudes gone. Gordon's gone. We don't want do overs with these guys.. Move along and find new players.

namzug
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It's not really about picking Lakers scrap it's picking up needs. Jordan Hill is a good player to have off the bench, and I think Wes Johnson isn't half bad. I'd pass on Farmar.

I liked glimpses of Wes when he was with the Suns, but think it's risky. He has shown some decent individual defense on a team with no defense. He is shooting slightly above average from deep, and has a good motor.

Jordan Hill I would take in a heartbeat. He's the perfect back up big for our needs. He can play either spot, he hustles. I don't think they would trade him to us for anything short of a pick (honestly that probably wouldn't do it either).

wessleejr
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Kaman is fine if he is willing and lakers will make a trade, but Hill is better, younger I'm not a laker fan but i like this guy in our bench.

ClipperPostman
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Kaman is a perfect back up big for us as a "win now" team.

Kaman is capable of putting up 20-25 points 10 rebounds in

a game. (Although not every game)

We don't have one backup big who can put up half that at this

point.

Kaman will add a scoring threat with crawford, and collison

off the bench, we might just have the best bench in the league.

MunoValente
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He's not a good team defender, the Lakers have allowed more points with him on the floor than off. The Suns were significantly better on defense with Dudley on the floor last year than with Johnson.

I think people of overvalue the on the ball man to man part of modern defense compared to off the ball defense, help defense, making rotations and team defense in general.

sz123456
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Kaman would be great, problem is he never plays. If he has a muscle ache he won't play for three games.

MunoValente
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I agree he's too unreliable, not only does he miss a lot of time he's inconsistent and makes bad decisions when he does play. I wouldn't give up any assets for Kaman, not even Dudley or Bullock. If we could get him for absolutely nothing he'd be worth a look, but that is about it.

TheDude
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What sucks is probably the two best fits/best chance to obtain are Brand and Kaman. I really don't think we'd bring either guy in even if it's a great deal.

Kaman would be great for us right now but I'd rather get Sacre from the Lakers. Just straight up offer of Bullock for Sacre. He's not as talented but he doesn't come with the baggage and his contract is as cheap as it gets.

Jerediscool
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Kobe just said something about kaman falling asleep on the bench all the time and being the most unmotivated player on the team. Let's go get him guys!!!!

JQuick32
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Kobrick shitting on his teammates again? Wow, what a surprise. roll

jarca
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Maybe Doc can "save" him like Jamison

namzug
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I see what you are saying, but it's like when we had Vinny as a coach and there is no defensive system in place. It can make a good defensive player look completely awful. It's usually salty vets that can get past terrible or non-existent defensive schemes. He deters dribble penetration, he boxes out and goes for rebounds. Without losing too much if any offensively in comparison to Duds. He is also cheap and could possibly be had, for Duds since Dantoni has worked with Duds before.

MunoValente
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Jamison was pretty good last year, sucks he decided that this was year he wanted to become old and completely washed up, but he's 37 and you're always pushing your luck with anyone that old. I thought it would be funny if passed David Robinson and George Gervin on the career scoring list, but that isn't happening.

Agent0
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Not trying to pick on you, but this is a line of reasoning I read from fans and just don't like. I never understood why people think the ability to have good games once in a while but then be inconsistent and inefficient most of the time is a positive.

Maybe for a rookie because then you see potential to attain consistency, but for a contender, you're looking more for consistent play (relatively consistent that is) from any player who will be a regular than for the ability to explode one game then suck for the next 4 games.

Again, not trying to pick on you, but I see too many people categorize players and give them some perceived extra value based on the fact that they can here and there explode for a big game, even if the players standard day to day production isn't even good. Just so weird to me.

It's like "yea. Jeff Green on a regular night is below average efficiency, mediocre on defense and on the glass, but watch out he can score 43 pts against a guy like Lebron once a season" (no offense meant to Jeff Green btw), so he's worth the price one pays for him now because of that once a season game. I don't know, to me the ability to explode is valuable when your regular production is already up to par, not when you are inconsistent and below average.

Anyways, just a rant because I read that line of reasoning a decent amount and it puzzles me.

Agent0
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Kaman has many little things that take away from his effectiveness but his biggest issue has always been turnovers. As a backup on the a Clippers, you would want to instill a minimal dribbling and no trying to create plays rule for Kaman because it is trouble. He's turning it over 1.9 times a game in 17.3 minutes. For better reference, that is 4 turnovers per 36, or almost 20% of his possessions. Really though? Why? No, really, why?

Now in theory that rule seems to make sense, but since that one year he made the All-Star team, Kaman has decided he is an offensive option and he hasn't regressed from that thinking, so he's taken 16-17 FGA a per 36 minutes for the past 5 seasons and over different teams.

I wonder of any of his coaches have ever spoken to him about it, though I guess that's why he's been moving around lately. Kaman needs to focus on defense and rebounding, and then just finishing at the rim and hitting open mid-range shots. He's be like a 12-13 pts/36 player taking about 9-10 FGA/36, where he should be to be valuable to a good team. He needs to forgot about being a post up option because he's just not effective enough there despite it making him seem like a better player.

He will be more valuable and desired by teams if he played smarter basketball on offense and focused on defense, but I don't know if he actually cares.

namzug
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I agree with @Agent0, even though I'm probably one that does it with certain players. I think context is important. Kaman we've seen and know for the most part who he is. There are other players that we have seen them in certain contexts, but never really maximize their potential. I don't really think the same for players over 30. I think that vast majority of players over 30 are who they are and that's not going to get better, maybe regression if anything (Duds).

Jeff Green I think has been playing out of position a large part of his career. He is a Small forward in my opinion that has gotten a ton of minutes at the 4. Sitting either behind Durant or Pierce, that is a tough act to beat.

The outliers are just that and I agree with you completely. I would like to get Jeff Green, but wouldn't expect him to be KD. I do think that a better situation can show him to be a much more consistent player. We've seen Barnes (even though he has had a bad year) play much more consistent (offensively) than I could remember (at least last season). I think a realistic expectation for production of any player we sign under 30, would be on the higher end of his career averages. Taking into account minutes played, and first and second years and any injuries. With all that said, Dudley would be proving me wrong anyways.

LobCity21
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Kaman can ball like We saw yesterday against a great bulls Defense, second only behind the pacers in Points allowed. He was 13-23 with 27 pts 10 rebounds 3 assists 2 blocks in 28 mins while Sacre and Kelly the starting 4-5 were 1-11 with 2 points and 6 rebounds in a combined 36 mins, D'antonis an a hole and doesn't play him, could be a good thing for us that means he is more fresh and not all wore down.

wessleejr
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Yep he was lying down in the lakers bench but that was after he get his 6 foul and everybody is gone (fouled out and injured) and he was the one left in the bench, that is the game where sacre got his 6 fouls but were allowed to continue playing because they have only 4 player left and they still won the game LOL!

toohipcliptoslip
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Does anyone remember Ricky Davis and his cannabis cloud?

We will never trade with the LAL. Kaman hates us and would be less than motivated. The Dallas folks said Kaman was great at pick and pop but was a disaster when he put the ball on the floor.He loves to put it on the floor. He was turnover prone. His defense is lacking.

Seeing that Hollins is improving every game and is showing toughness, at least has much as he has, and passion he may be a better fit. Brand is too expensive and we have Hedo who's doing fine at PF. He could play SG I guess.

  1. We have two SF's, Barnes and Dudley and a rookie who azz will probably never see the light of day in the PO's because of permanent bench sitting.

2 With Sasha we have six guards

3 We have two centers.

4 If DJ gets hurt we start Hollins. His per 3 min stats - 6.1 fouls/36 min

  1. Mullens is a bust. I feel sorry for him. He's worse than Gomes.

We can't trade a SF and not get a SF otherwise we have only one. We can't start Hollins. We have a full roster with Sasha and we're running out of cap room. We won't use Bullock in the PO's unless he takes a quantum leap. He hasn't been used even when Dudley is getting beaten defensively. JD however has been playing better D.

If Doc's dog were to miraculously eat Mullens' contract and we bought Jamison one of those Low T products to bring back that zip good, but it's a Ricky Davis pipe dream.

DJ is up for a new contract and CP and BD's cash, like bunnies, will be multiplying.

It seems our best option is Lamar vet's min, drop Sasha. If we swap JD for a SF that's fine.

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