Doc Rivers Has Been A Mediocre GM

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Poll
How has Doc Rivers performed as a GM?
Excellent
26%
 26%  [20]
Good
48%
 48%  [37]
So-so
22%
 22%  [17]
Below par
2%
 2%  [2]
Very Poorly
0%
 0%  [0]
Total Votes : 76

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Clippersfan86
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Now I know many of us have commented on it in threads, but it's time we discuss it individually. He's been a huge addition as a coach, doubt anyone here will dispute that. As a GM though he's been atrocious. For every good move he's made.. he's made 2-3 bad ones. We had some pretty huge things to address and all we could muster up was to trade two minimum contracts for a SUPER protected 2nd rounder and cap relief? Nevermind that he's the one who brought the two bozos in to begin with! People gripe that we had no assets to acquire anything and I think that's a big load of crap. What I think happened is Doc's been too slow to see the flaws of this team and has no clue in hell what it takes to build a team as a GM, rather than a coach POV. How many times have us fans screamed for backup bigs, only to have this guy offer a ton of wings/guards 10 day contracts? How many times have Barnes/Dudley been complete zeros yet Doc still refuses to play Bullock, the guy he chose in the draft BTW?

This team has some severe roster holes rearing ugly right now and not one weakness got addressed. The only way Doc can remotely redeem himself is if he goes out and signs Glen Davis and a few other solid free agents. I want Doc to step down and let Gary do what he's good at, which is assessing talent and making moves. Coming from Olshey and Sacks... it's tough to take the way Doc is trying to build this team. I also don't like how he manipulates fans/media like a snake. Today he claimed the trades today were to open financial flexibility for this summer. Yet anybody with sense will know that we are way over the cap right now and next year and cutting a couple minimum guys won't change that. Bottom line is he was saving Donald some precious tax dollars. Be a man and say it, don't pull BS acting like you did it for some greater good. Then I'm pissed at how he handled Jamison. Pulled the "saving him for the playoffs because I know what he brings" BS, only to trade him for literally nothing.

Still year 1 but expectations are insane with his damn parade route planning, so he doesn't get the luxury of years to build this team.

clipperAndrew
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Posts: 1799
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I think you need to relax a bit man. He signed JJ and DC. You can't base his GM duties after one season/trade deadline.

You can expect him to go out and trade for. Give it time man! I know you love the team, but I let it takes it course.

Clippersfan86
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Good additions:JJ/DC/Hedo

Bad additions: Dudley/Barnes resigning/Mullens/Jamison/Morris (not bad but definitely not a big need)/Vujevic/Hollins resigning.

3 to 7 as I said, twice as many bad choices and I'm probably forgetting a couple.

Can't afford to let things take it's course because this roster isn't good enough for the conference finals right now. Another 1st round exit will get us obliterated by the media and be pathetic to the fans.

JahvonTheClip
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Reference cavs gm....end of discussion

Clippersfan86
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Arash Markazi‏@ArashMarkazi4 mins

Doc: "I don't think we're in any rush. We may be at 12 for a while. We're out looking and there's some guys out there."

How come no sense of urgency? We are gearing for the fu**ing stretch run and are just like 3.5 games ahead of the 7 seed. Things can get ugly very fast if we don't fill these holes.

Steady818
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Even as a coach he hasn't impressed me all that much...

We are exactly where we were a year ago.. with a team that probably maxes out in the 2nd round...

I forgot who i was telling but i remember telling those many individuals that vinny wasn't the only problem..

Icecoldclipper
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Now being rumored to go after Glen Big Baby Davis after his buyout. Not the best trade deadline but some redemption could be had if we get Granger or Johnson (more so Granger) and Davis. Davis does not have the length was looking for but the bulkcan be useful.

Paul/Collision

Redick/Crawford/Green

Bullock/Barnes/Dudley/Turk

Griffin/Granger/Turk

Jordan/Davis/Hollins

Maybe we can out score everyone to a title.

CapsNClips
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Chris Paul was a pretty good signing in my opinion, but that's just me. Drafting Bullock was a good draft pick for the future at the 25 spot. Barnes and Dudley were good pick ups at the time, injuries and bad play can be more put on his coaching than his ability to sign players.

Is the Pacers GM awful because he signed Orlando Johnson, Solomon Hill, Chris Copeland, Donald Sloan, and Rasual Butler? Nope.

This absurd to judge him after half a season.

A_DOG_NAMED_BUD
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1470

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I agree, he has made some bad decisions, but JJ and DC were great pick ups. Plus, who would've thought Dudley would have one of his worst seasons this year? I sure didn't. I expected Dudley to be much better than he's turned out to be.

Clipperfn4lf
Clipper All-Star
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ya they just released Orlando Johnson Wink

DocHollywood
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Wait and see who gets bought out in the next few days and then immediately signs with us....this isn't over by any stretch. Doc's got this. Just watch.

ClipperKyle32
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Repped High Quality Post
Calm down. Its not like the players we traded away were logging any minutes anyway. You cannot just sign someone immediately its a process. Big Baby and Danny Granger will most likely , if bought....

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cleepers
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FIRE DOC! FIRE DOC! FIRE DOC!

I couldn't resist Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_08

Settle down, Mike Smith. Let's see how it all shakes out.

ClippersDA
CTB MVP X1
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Svp I'd BBall operations is a fancy way of saying gm.

Clippersfan86
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Kyle that's not true. VP of ops is the boss of the GM and has to sign off on everything the GM does. He's Sacks boss.

JQuick32
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He's not awful, but he's still learning with a team that could benefit more from an experienced GM.

Bringing in Dudley, Mullens, and Jamison were awful moves, as were bringing back Hollins and overpaying Barnes. No denying that.

Bringing in Redick was a genius move, getting Collison for dirt cheap was a steal, and even though we couldn't get an impact trade done, at least Doc corrected some of his mistakes and set us up nicely for the waiver market by dumping Jamison and Mullens.

Overall, I would say he's middle-of-the-road as a GM so far, amazing of course as a coach.

ClipperKyle32
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Kyle that's not true. VP of ops is the boss of the GM and has to sign off on everything the GM does. He's Sacks boss.
If He is the "boss" of the GM as....

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fullcourt
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votes: 4

Doc has done fine to grade him properly you'd have to know what could've actually been done and that he chose not to do it and since no one here knows that how can anyone say that he is been horrible

This whole Doc sucks because he didn't sign Dwight or Iggy thing is crazy.

Jerediscool
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votes: 16

why the sense of panic? Good things are happening. Settle down Mike Smith

Agent0
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I didn't think he would come in and be a great GM. I think it usually ends up being best to have two different people. Pop gave up GM to Burford a couple of seasons after he started coaching.

I thought his signings in summer were not so good outside of some of the more obvious ones. I said that I think part of the issue is the since he's also a coach, he overrates his ability to coach and transform players, while a separate mind would be more balanced.

Still, let's not get too carried away. There's a learning curve, so as long as the mistakes aren't repeated. Some fans always end up hating on a coach no matter how good. I also said this after we signed him. After the honeymoon is over, we see the reality.

I think we should be fine though

TheBlakeShow
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 140
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votes: 1

In Doc we trust!

Icecoldclipper
CTB MVP X2
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Damn that is so messed up getting kicked off the plane like that.

jarca
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Biggest mistake happened in the off season. Ebled's value was underestimated.

namzug
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I wasn't big on giving him a title a title over our GM, but really no harm no foul. Hedo and Mullens was really the only pick ups I questioned, and would say Mullens is the only bad signing. Every other signing made some type of sense. I don't think anybody could have guessed Duds, Barnes, and Jamison having relatively bad years for them.

I'm not really sure if Doc could have made all of you happy coming down to the deadline. If he would have traded a JJ or Jamal plus a Barnes or a Dudley for an Ariza and Lavoy would any of you be Happy. You could switch the names as you see fit. If we get a combination of Granger, Deshawn, Big Baby, and or Ivan wouldn't it be just about as good as any trade we could have made. Would we be that much better with a Iman and Felting combo?

How about we wait until we get a final roster before we call for his head or call him terrible. Personally being able to unload Mullens is pretty impressive in my opinion. He opened two spots for almost nothing. I know Mullens was his bad to begin with but being able to recognize that he made a mistake and making up for it in the same season is impressive for any GM. We could always go hire Dumars at the end of the year.

CP3Heliflopter
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^I hope your not serious about Dumars cause that is not a good joke. Garbage gm....

Agent0
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Dumas drafts fairly well but is the worst person to give cap space to.

Charlie Villanueva, Ben Gordon when you have a lot of guards, Josh Smith. Him and cap space just spells trouble, not a good GM, though I wouldn't mind giving him some drafting / head of scouting role or something, but I don't want him signing players.

Bledsoe's value was underestimated by more than just Doc, more like by everyone, maybe even Phoenix who got him, though their stats type GM guy might have been paying attention to things like Bledsoe and Paul playing together (which makes sense for the Bledsoe and Dragic combo) and Bledsoe's production before he was slowed a little by injuries. If his value was seen as a 19/5/5 player who scores very efficiently by the masses, we would have gotten much more for him. His value was seen as a borderline starting PG, below average on offense, turnover prone, not really efficient as a scorer, poor outside shot, poor shooter off the dribble, not really god at running a team, but who could defend really well, had great defensive potential, but wasn't a true PG and for some reason considered unable to play SG despite having similar or better tools to guys like Mayo, Redick, Ellis, EJ, etc. Or maybe it is the box way of thinking that says your shooting guard must be a shooter, who knows.

I thought a little higher of him, especially as a SG or combo guard playing SG than most, seemingly including Doc, and most teams wanting to trade for him. That has passed, but maybe Bledsoe's emergence is actually part of why Dpc has been hesitant to trade Bullock. Doesn't want to get burdened twice with young player development.

MunoValente
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Even Mullens wasn't that bad of move, it cost us basically nothing. Mullens did a few things well in Charlotte last year, his defensive rebounding and finishing at the rim were legitimately decent and his three point shooting showed promise, so we thought we could see if we could break him of his bad habits and make a real player out of him. It didn't work out, but it only cost half year of minimum salary and a very late second round pick. Mullens had more chance of becoming a real NBA player than 55th pick of some future draft, especially when you consider Mullens was a former first round pick and was considered the top recruit of his high school class.

Really all we have to judge Rivers by is one trade where everybody got hurt for both teams but our guys are under contract for next year and Bledsoe is not, the very good Collison signing, the unimpressive Barnes signing, getting the job done on re-signing Paul, drafting Bullock which seems like a pretty good and some various unimportant scrap heap signings.

david
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Added a poll- how do you rate Doc Rivers' performance as a general manager so far?

DocHollywood
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I thought Gary Sacks was the GM?

Agent0
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Doc is President of Basketball Operations, Sacks is like his assistant. Doc is in charge of the moves at the moment.

MunoValente
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We killed Bledsoe's trade value by not playing him enough last year. People often compare his trade to the Harden trade, but Harden was vastly more proven when he was traded. Harden was playing 30+ minutes on team that went to the finals when he was traded, Bledsoe only averaged 20 minutes and only got that many because Paul missed a bunch of games. Teams don't want to give up huge hauls for unproven players with only a year left on their contract, look what the return for Hawes and Turner was today, basically nothing. Honestly giving a big money contract to Bledsoe I think is kind of scary at this point given all the injuries he's had, but he'll certainly get one anyway.

Agent0
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I would rate him

"Inconclusive" or "in progress"

"Okay" is what I would say, he hasn't wowed anyone, but it's not like he's been bad like some are suggesting. It's a new position for him. Being a good coach does not make you a good GM either because there's also the cost vs production aspect of being a GM and trying to balance filling holes and what is most important with the available money and staying under luxury tax, etc, etc

namzug
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The Dumars thing was a joke. I will hold my judgement and revisit this once we get a better picture of what we have heading into the playoffs. If we get Granger and he works out Doc will look like a genius, not to mention if we were to get Ivan and Okafer and they work out too. Everybody jumping off the cliff here would be eating crow. Isn't the final product like his version of the final test.

Agent0
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I think if Philly didn't hold out for so long and if they actually wanted salary back that wasn't expiring they could and would have gotten more.

Yea, he did need to play more, I thought he should have been starting over Green, but that's a different discussion, and Doc wasn't part of that decision though, so he did work with what he was dealt with in terms of that. I'm not sure without watching him in practice either that Doc was aware of Bledsoe's talent, his only reference would have been game film, whatever he had seen at that point in time.

Namzug, I think you scared us with that Dumars comment

clipperboy24
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Probably going to be one of the worst mistakes in franchise history trade wise.

DocHollywood
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Good to know. Like some others here, I think Mullens was the only signing Doc should have known better about at the time. Overall he's done a solid job for this being his first year with the organization. I'm amazed ANYONE can effectively coach a team while also handling the duties of GM- seems like an awful lot for one man's plate.

Agent0
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Too much hindsight about this. Bledsoe's value wasn't as high as his current production. From the looks of things, if he stayed, he would be playing a role similar to Collison's and still wouldn't be getting ideal minutes to increase his value any more, and we likely wouldn't have Caron's contract to pair with him, so he'd have a similar value at the trade deadline. Trying to trade him in the off-season (sign and trade) when he's a FAA you can't afford would mean losing him for nothing, or maybe getting a second round pick from some team.

The majority of posters did not think he should have been played at SG. The majority, even more did not think Jamal should have been moved and Bledsoe take the role of 6th man bench guard. Many thought Collison was just as good of a replacement, some better. No one thought he was worth extending to be a $7-8M backup, and I agree, that would have been stupid to pay a guy that much to play under 20 MPG.

So I mean, sure, hindsight is 20/20, but we also have to be real as to what the guy's value was if he's a backup PG (who is a combo guard) playing 20 minutes or less a game, potential or not, teams want substance, and draft position also gets tied to potential whether fair or not.

BennyBeFly
Clipper 6th Man
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Some of the members of this forum are ridiculous! You guys are overly critical and see things with a glass 1/8 empty view of things.

Doc has done an okay job. Hits and misses. Let's let him get through a full season and playoffs before anybody bash him too hard.

ClipperPostman
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IMO Doc did a great job in the off-season that didn't pan

out in the regular season.

1. As I watched every game last season as I do every season

I noticed our 2 main problems especially in our POs.

A. We had no half court offense.

B. We had no shooters that could open the lane for

blake. Which is why all memphis had to do was pack the paint

and put their best perimeter defender on our best shooter

(crawford) and we shut down.

Bledsoe was useless in that scenario. They were leaving him wide

open at the 3, and by packing the paint rendered his superior driving

ability useless.

I said we needed to do 3 things this offseason.

1. Bring in a coach who can put together a half court system.

2. Bring in a shooting big to come off the bench. One of the reasons

our bench was good which usually isn't mentioned, was that

Lamar (THough terrible last season) was still perceived as a shooting

threat for a big. Which generally lead to bringing the opposing back up

C out of the lane. And gave room for the drive.

I'm assuming this was the thinking with Jamison and Mullens. Just have

a big guy who can be a threat from the perimeter to stop paint packing.

Mullens I can see the argument that he was always terrible. But Jamison

a 20,000pt career scorer, and played decent for the lakers I thought was a good

pick-up. Who could have predicted he would forget how to play basketball

in one off-season?

3. Last but not least we needed to bring in shooters at the 2-3 position. With

Paul as our PG, and Blake dominating the lane, we don't need a SG and SF that

can make plays, and/or slash to the basket.

We needed spot up shooters who knocked down open 3's so

Paul can Drive and kick

Blake can kick on double teams to an open shooter. knock down 2

in a row and the double teams quit coming. Which leaves Blake room to beast.

Doc brings in JJ and Dudley

Brilliant Signings in the off-season....

JJ a known spot up shooter, and off-ball runner he came in

and did his job to perfection.

Dudley - a known average player that doesn't try to do too much. His

role was exactly what his resume showed, Spot up shooter who is going

to knock down over 40% of his shots.

Unfortunately Dudley's knee has hindered his performance.

But from an off-season standpoint his resume expressed

exactly what we needed.

To blame Doc for that is ridiculous IMO.

If I hire a guy who has a great resume, and a clean work record,

and he comes in and steals money from the register, really hard

to blame the guy who hired him. What more could he have done?

Life happens

Overall I thought DOC did a great job with identifying team needs

and filling them in the off-season with players who resume's up

this point showed the capability to perform the task at hand.

Aside from mullens that is.

Clippersfan86
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You guys are right, "awful" is harsh. More like mediocre. Zero doubt if he didn't demand VP position and let Sacks handle it, we would be better though.

wessleejr
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When we sign Dudley everybody said he is a good pick up, good job Doc,... but Dudley did not play well, so he is awful now is it Doc's fault that Dudley, or Mullens or Hollins did not play well?

ClipsGForce
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Come on guys, it only been 3/4 season done. Yes Doc made some terrible move, but all GMs does. He still find gems such as DC, Redick, and Turk. I know there is more miss than make, but that the average result of all GM. Even your behold Neil Oshley whiff on his first season with Randy Foye, Ryan Gomes, and Brian Cook. Give him time, we still have a chance. Believe, damn it!

ClipsGForce
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Too soon to call. Bledsoe is still injury prone, Dudley is a dud, and Redick is injury prone as well. It is a wash.

You haven't been a Clipper fan long enough if you consider one of the worst.

sz123456
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Posts: 2354
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Rivers has been a great coach and a pretty good GM.

It's not Doc's fault that Dudley didn't pan out, he was the perfect guy to get, just hasn't clicked yet - and I do mean "yet", Dudley will play better now that he can't be traded this season

Agent0
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wessleejr wrote:
When we sign Dudley everybody said he is a good pick up, good job Doc,... but Dudley did not play well, so he is awful now is it Doc's fault that Dudley, or Mullens or Hollins did not play well?
Mullens and Hollins are understandable, I didn't project them to be good anyways, those always seemed very houseful moves to me. Dudley has vastly underproduced in comparison to his career and last 4 seasons, so it is a bit weird to be hating on Doc for not being a fortune teller.

sz123456 wrote:
Rivers has been a great coach and a pretty good GM.

It's not Doc's fault that Dudley didn't pan out, he was the perfect guy to get, just hasn't clicked yet - and I do mean "yet", Dudley will play better now that he can't be traded this season

Im pretty sure the whole unresolved injury situation and the subsequent seeming loss of confidence is a bigger deal than any fear of being traded. There was no fear of him being traded to start the season and he had struggles then too, mainly with road games.

wessleejr
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Exactly! we are worst for how many years? actually i can't count it using all my fingers.

Agent0
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We did trade a lottery pick to get rid of Baron Davis Wink

CLIPSET
Clipper Starter
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Granger, Davis , Collins?

CP3Heliflopter
CTB MVP X2
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Bledsoe has played fewer games than Redick this season.

Enough said.

Don't think we underestimated his value at all especially since he is likely to get a near max contract and since he seems very injury prone.

Anyway so far Doc has done a poor job. Hope he makes up for things. He still has time.

David42
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He made his mistakes undone. Goodbye Mullens and Jamison. I give him credit for that. He shows that it was his mistake to sign them and fixed it.

I hope Dudley and Barnes has gotten a wake up call and will play like we expect it from then.

I hope Doc can now fix his mistake and upgrade the roster by adding a big and a SF.

Davis

Granger

Clark

I hope Davis and Granger.

Grtz.

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