Doc Rivers Has Been A Mediocre GM (P. 5)

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ClippersDA
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Has anyone noticed as soon as doc came to la there was lots of chatter from non-clippers fans that doc was overrated as a coach? I'm not sure why but the clippers are either hated a lot or people are insanely jealous. Not sure why people hate blake, Chris so much.

cleepers
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This thread should die now.

It's kind of embarrassing to have it on the front page.

LeftHook
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Yeah it looks ridiculous. Especially if a non Clipper fan were to visit this site... can you imagine some blogger reading the title and blowing it out of proportion? Somehow someway, it gets around lazy ESPN writers that the word among Clippers fans is that Doc is mediocre?

It at least needs a title change.

prokreation
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Doc has been awesome as a GM and Coach.

Kingkanyon
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Doc Rivers, EXECUTIVE of the YEAR, yeah!!!.

pageC4
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You have to understand that the OP wrote this when the Clippers were in 5th place with a 2-7 record versus the elite in the NBA. We had Mullens, Dudley, and Jamison still on contract with the trade deadline over. The only prize we had from the Rivers regime was Redick and he has been injured all year. In my opinion CF86 had reason to post this up. I hate to see how everyone is bashing on CF86 yet he owns up to his mistakes and wrong predictions. This is a luxury others won't offer, go to the Dudley threads and see if you get this candor and owning up from other members...nope. Review the VDN threads did we ever get people say "maybe VDN was the wrong answer." Yet CF86 has always owned up to his mistakes. This was the same guy that even made a thread saying..maybe VDN wasn't the only problem. People's opinions here will go down in vain arguing their cause because they're too pridefull to admit "maybe I was wrong."

Hindsight is 20/20 if you review every members posts here hsitorically we would all look like the GM of the Cavaliers. Yet only one guy here ever admits to be being wrong and we bash him for being honest and owning up.

LeftHook
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What? Mullens & Jamison weren't under contract after trade deadline was over. Please explain how they're not on the roster anymore.

Plain and simple, Doc was being bashed here for not being psychic and not forseeing wether or not the players listed would end up duds. The good thing is, Mullens and Jamison were sitting at the end of the bench.

Most of us were pretty open with the potential of what Dudley could contribute. Some excited, some were wait & see. Ppl were optimistic with Mullens, and almost nobody wanted Jamison.

You said, "Hindsight is 20/20, if we were to review every member's posts, we would all look like GMs of the Cavaliers."

I agree... the same reason why we should all think twice before criticizing ppl that are actually getting paid to do it. We obviously can't see or hear what's going on in the FO. Just because we don't hear anything, doesn't mean nothing is going on.

pageC4
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I don't think Doc was being bashed for not being able to predict which players would turn out bad. He was being criticized for (at the time) not making moves to make this team better. as a fan I could understand the OP's perspective, and it was merited at the time. we have seen this club basically determine its season at the trade deadline before. last year butler was erratic and billups was injured. Sterling said no to a trade that would bring in Afflalo for "fear of ruining chemistry." we ended up a first round out and I can only assume that CF86 saw the same turn of events unfolding. now luckily the stars aligned to make Granger and Davis fall into our lap, but prior to that I think we might have been headed on the same trajectory as last year.

LeftHook
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You don't think Doc was being bashed for not being able to predict, but...

"Good additions:JJ/DC/Hedo

Bad additions: Dudley/Barnes resigning/Mullens/Jamison/Morris (not bad but definitely not a big need)/Vujevic/Hollins resigning.

3 to 7 as I said, twice as many bad choices and I'm probably forgetting a couple."

This was only the 3rd post in the thread.

I'm not even calling the guy out or anything, just expressing my opinion that the title for this thread is terrible.

We can't fault Doc for not knowing Duds, Mull, and Jamison would fail. Yeah, none of us liked Jamison, but almost the same thing happened last year with Matt Barnes. We fans react all the time, but we never actually know.

tense2
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Mullins was his biggest foopa and pretty easy failure to forecast, but he rectified that very soon by clueing him to the bench and then trading him. Doc knew this season that there should be some decent players available come buy out time and he was right. I think he's done a fairly decent job his 1st time out as a "GM".

We'll see how he does next year with us being up against that tax line.

clippersblue
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Doc has done a fantastic job as GM. After trading Blesdoe, a promising superstar who could have landed a high draft pick in this upcoming deep draft, for a role player, Jared Dudley, who can hit shot, with another three years on his contract, I think that shows his true brilliance.

That might be the worst trade in the history of sports. There is no debate, every other move is a result of players wanting to play with CP3.

tense2
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"Might be one of the worst trades in the history of sports", oh me oh my. roll

LeftHook
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You're brilliant! I bet you knew all along that Dudley was gonna be a dud, and JJ was gonna be injured. You were screaming this to Doc when he made the trade, I bet.

Doc, why didn't you know, Cousins was gonna throw Redick to the ground and Dud was gonna stink it up?!

Well, I DON'T BELIEVE YOU! Haha

pageC4
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LeftHook wrote:
You don't think Doc was being bashed for not being able to predict, but...

"Good additions:JJ/DC/Hedo

Bad additions: Dudley/Barnes resigning/Mullens/Jamison/Morris (not bad but definitely not a big need)/Vujevic/Hollins resigning.

3 to 7 as I said, twice as many bad choices and I'm probably forgetting a couple."

Left, if you read these posts he isn't criticizing Doc for not being able to predict some of these signings would turn out bad. CF86 was assesing the acquisitions, which apart from Barnes his assesment is spot on.

LeftHook wrote:
This was only the 3rd post in the thread.

I'm not even calling the guy out or anything, just expressing my opinion that the title for this thread is terrible.

We can't fault Doc for not knowing Duds, Mull, and Jamison would fail. Yeah, none of us liked Jamison, but almost the same thing happened last year with Matt Barnes. We fans react all the time, but we never actually know.

The title of the thread may ruffle feathers i get that, but again CF86 is assesing the acquisitions, not saying Doc should have seen it coming.

Clippersfan86
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I'm starting to get really frustrated here, as are many of you probably. When Doc was promoted to president and moved his boys up the ladder, demoting Gary Sacks I was genuinely worried. I was wondering why a bunch of guys with no front office experience were being chosen to RUN the front office. Doc is a good coach and him being here in that capacity was a big get. As a GM/now president though, I get the feeling he doesn't know what he's doing really. While teams like OKC are about to get Pau Gasol and our rival Warriors get guys like Shawn Livingston, all we hear is "The Clippers are interested" in blank.

This is the most make or break based summer in the franchise's entire history. Never before has this team been in such a crossroads place of a couple good moves pushing them over the top, a couple bad ones making the team a treadmill early exit playoff team. I expected Doc to come into this summer on fire and addressing glaring flaws. Instead the team is trying to retain Davis, Collison and Granger who are all worse than potential upgrades the team CAN indeed afford. Then you have the team supposedly wanting Lebron and Melo, neither of which are realistic in the slightest.

The leaked rumors of who the team is interested in (Ariza, Deng etc) are nice and all... but how about the team starts aggressively pursuing realistic options and stops fooling around while the teams around us get better? I haven't heard of any meetings, despite the fact that half of the free agents in the league are supposedly in LA with their agents or on vacations right now.

Anyway... yes I'm ranting, but I'm worried with very good reason. Last summer the Clippers were in every rumor imaginable, this year it's almost pure silence. This isn't to say this is over whatsoever, but rather to say that the team needs to get on this NOW, before it's too late and all these players get snatched up. Maybe the Donald Sterling thing is deterring free agents?

clipnasty
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Everyone is waiting for the chips to fall. Most SFs will not commit to signing until Lebron and Melo do. Time to relaaaaaaxxxxxxx.

FightOnRon
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Well,I too am a bit nervous as this could be...as you said...the most important off seaosn ever. That coupled with the STurdling fiasco and us seemingly doing nothing to get better makes this feel really shaky to me.

Tick-tock Doc........we STH are not going to stand still if you are.

Dunkathon
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  1. OKC isn't "about to get Pau Gasol". One tweet from Shelburne does not a free agency signing make.

  2. The Warriors did get Shaun, but they also used their entire MLE to do so. Good move by them, but I have to wonder if they might need that MLE later.

  3. That you haven't heard anything about the team aggressively pursuing players doesn't mean the Clippers aren't doing so. It just means they run a tight ship, instead of having a front office that's constantly leaking information to people like Woj.

  4. It's two *@#(ing days into free agency, and you're worried that all the players will be snatched up? No free agents can even sign until July 8th. Heck, none of the current "signings" are in writing. Livingston can change his mind whenever he dang well pleases until he signs the papers the Warriors provide him six days from now.

Calm down, don't worry, and be patient. If your team screws up, they screws up, and there's nothing you and I can do about it. Until they actually do screw up though, it's pointless to wring one's hands until they break.

Clippersfan86
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I really think the Sterling fiasco is backfiring tremendously. Which furthers the league's case against Sterling that he's severely hampering the Clippers brand. Dude is a cancer that I hope loses everything.

ClipperDB
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Count me in too as being worried....

CapsNClips
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These are the absolute best threads to come back to after Free Agency.

Weren't there two other thread just like this? And didn't it end up eating crow both times?

Jerediscool
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Hahahahaa this thread is funny. It feels like a caricature of a real thread. How is anyone so freaked out about not signing Jodie Meeks or Ben Gordon? Just because you, a normal person with no connections to the team, haven't heard about the moves the team has been making, is no reason to be panicking like this. Its comical. Wait and see what happens, we don't exactly have a ton of money to be shaking the league up with anyway. Next thing you know there is going to be a Fire Doc thread haha. Wheres Sam, wasn't he the one with all the anger during the VDN era?

ClipperDB
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You mean last year after we got B Mullins or A Jamison?

Clippersfan86
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Don't forget re-signed Hollins immediately, despite backup big being the most glaring flaw the year before that cost the team in the playoffs as well. This is accumulative, not on a whim.

Clippersfan86
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Actually the team has a lot of flexibility for being over the cap. Full 5+ mill MLE, BAE of 2+ mill, minimum and potential trade assets. It's not about Meeks or Gordon. It's about guys we should be aggressively trying to meet with like Jordan Hill, Ed Davis etc.

Jerediscool
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How do you know we aren't?

Clippersfan86
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Not really because the end result was the same as the two years before. Early playoff exit due to role players pulling a vanishing act. You may be referring to my thread I made due to nothing done at trade deadline, but look at the results. A defender like Shumpert would of been HUGE during the playoffs and the pieces acquired around then (Granger, Davis) did nothing whatsoever come playoff time. In other words, no crow was eaten.

Jerediscool
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What if Shump took a dump during the playoffs... what song would you be singing now? You never know what "could have happened" if it didn't. What you need to do is stop looking at every situation in the past and "what if we had done this or that" and start looking at what we have and accepting it. Negativity is going to give you a heart attack man. It makes life a lot easier. Take a day off of basketball news and see if the world is still rotating tomorrow. Spoiler Alert!! It will be

Clippersfan86
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Hyperbole much? If I have these rants a handful of times a year how is that "every situation"? There are only certain things I think worth discussing in this context/manner. Why would I look at what we have and accept it? That's a losers mentality when it comes to sports usually and I refuse to "accept" the idea that the team wants to become a treadmill, early playoff exit team. I'm sorry but the team has set expectations very high with Doc/CP3/Griffin/DJ and I will NEVER accept early playoff exits or a lack of aggression to improve constantly.

As for my health, don't worry I can write something passionate without it affecting my life off the internet, or having a nervous breakdown. As I said before in my general life I'm a very optimistic guy, being more of a realist or at times pessimist with my sports team won't weigh much.

clipper*joe
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Last time shumpert was in the playoffs he tore his ACL and Meniscus in game one of the playoffs against the Heat. Last time we tried to trade for him, Shumpert hurt his left knee ( same knee). He hasn't been the same player since the knee injury so I hardly think he would have been huge for us.

CapsNClips
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So winning a championship is the only proof of a good offseason? So 29 NBA teams had bad offseasons and Pat Riley didn't know what he was doing when he signed LeBron, Wade and Bosh in 2010?

Doc has been at the helm for one year. Let's put the pitchforks down and see if Doc can cook up a nice plate of crow. I'm betting he can.

Clippersfan86
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Fair enough, he is injury prone. Let me rephrase that. IF he was healthy (remember the knee thing was a sprain at trade deadline, not serious), he would of been of more use against GS/OKC than Collison due to his perimeter D. The Achilles heel for the team the entire playoffs was wing guys going off on us with untimely 3's and of course rebounding (which is why we need better backup bigs).

clipper*joe
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Jordan Hill will command more than 5 million and we've already reached out to Ed Davis.

Clippersfan86
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Have you asked me what my expectations were? I think a loss in 6 games to the Spurs in the WCF would of been a great year. In fact even advancing to the WCF just once, shouldn't of been too hard to ask. I don't expect finals, I expect more than 1st and 2nd round exits with a team this loaded with talent and with Doc at the helm. Especially given that come playoff time last year the team was just about entirely healthy for the first time in 3 years.

jarca
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Not Doc fault. It wasn't his fault he had to do everything with short staff and lack of scouting. Our cheap racist owner Sterling hindered our chances of finding gems or acquiring key role players like Ariza. Not Docs fault that the organization is in chaos because our racist owner still refused to sell the team. One man can't do it all. He's probably doing everything himself since Sterlijg is known to hire a bunch of yes man and incompetent to think for themselves. Also not Docs fault that our cheap owner didn't want to hire a GM. Since Doc is doing everything by himself expect nothing out ordinary to happen.

Clippersfan86
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Jordan Hill won't get much more IMO. Although I haven't heard of any teams making offers, so no way to tell. Ed Davis is the first guy they've "reached" out to. The rest has been "Interest in, along with 9 other teams". I suppose Doc having multiple dinners with free agents immediately in free agency last year allowed me to expect the same sort of aggressiveness this year.

Jerediscool
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Sorry man, didn't mean for that to sound like an insult. Its just that you, and Kyle and a couple others are acting as if we aren't calling people and setting up meetings and trying to sign people. We are. There are reports about it all day. We can't make players sign here. The "free" part of free agent means its up them, not us. All Doc can do is ask. They know what we have here, its no secret. Theres just other equally good options out there right now and teams that are willing to pay more. We haven't missed out on anyone yet!! We could still literally get all the players you want.

Clippersfan86
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I'd happily change the title to "What the heck is the front office doing", because as you said it's obviously not all Doc. He is the president, HC though and they who supposedly does all of the recruiting.

sz123456
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Last time it looked like we weren't getting any player movement, we flipped Mullens and Jamison for Big Baby and Granger. You can say that Big Baby and Granger aren't good, but at the time they had pretty decent value. Doc's got something up his sleeve.

jarca
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The only reason Doc asked to have basketball control when he first got to the clippers so he won't get screwed by Sterling for example trading key players to save $$$. The only thing Doc can do is to court veteran players who he has personal relationship with like. Pierce. I doubt Doc has any time to watch film to find who's going to be the next Leanard or Ginobili late in the draft or watching the NBDL for the next Danny Green

CapsNClips
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Of course we expect better, but imagine how different things would be if Chris didn't miss 20 games and we ended up with a 1-2 seed and played OKC with home court advantage. I can say with complete confidence that we would've smoked them and would've given the Spurs a run for their money.

Chris Paul going down had nothing to do with roster moves, yet it played a much bigger part to our season than not trading Collison.

Every move Doc made after the trade deadline was pure perfection. Danny Granger was the right move. Big Baby was the right move. Hedo was the right move.

Doc did great. I feel we were a WCF team last season no matter the results.

Not to mention, no other NBA team had a P.R. nightmare like us with Sterling. Doc handled that with grace and professionalism. Things could've been so different without any roster moves.

Clippersfan86
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Let me ask all of you a question. Can you honestly tell me with a straight face that this front office is proven yet? They demoted Sacks (proven front office, bright mind, runner up exec of the year), Doc jumps to president of the entire organization, promotes his boy Kevin Eastman with zero FO experience. Those moves make me more insecure about the ability for this group of guys to run a front office for a contending team. It would take 2-3 summers of consistently good stuff to convince me that I should just relax and trust everything they are doing without reservation.

Jered I agree with you that free agency isn't such a 60 percent of the time, it works every time situation. Players, agents, families etc all contribute to the decisions. Last year though it seemed so easy. Every player wanted to come here and every player the team pursued, they got it seemed. I think Sterling is hampering this whole thing.

Clippers_FTW
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I've given up on an immediate signing. I'll just sit here looking pretty and wait

kjavis
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what doc has done so far is nothing, whether that is good or bad can't say until the key guys we want are signed by someone else or until the end of free agency.

history tells me we are bound to pick up at least 1 lemon, just to show those fans that are moaning non-activity that management has at least got something out of free agency even if it is junk LEL

Dunkathon
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I agree the front office hasn't proven they consistently make good moves yet. Then again, they haven't make consistently bad moves either.

By the start of the next season, we'll see how everything pans out.

FightOnRon
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Repped High Quality Post
I'll tell you why I think some are freaking out right now. traditionally the Clips for decades sat on their wallets when good players pop up. We hear that we are talking about it or looking at this guy or that guy (look at how many threads today on CTB are about Clippers looking at XXXXXX) ,then days later those guys sign with other teams and we end up with scraps. We know traditionally there was nothing here to entice players to come on over as there is now but many of us "old-timers" still can't....

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clipper*joe
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Ariza is out of our price range so even if we had Ballmer, staff, and God, we'd still be unable to sign a gem like Ariza based on the CBA rules. In this case, the CBA is greater than money and God. That gem is going to cash in on some lucrative money based on the interest he's getting from half the league. By the way, Parson's doesn't need permission from Sterling to get a GM, or hire anyone. he can do whatever he wants. Doc made a power move to get more control of the team.

clipper*joe
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Doc and CP3 met with Ariza yesterday. That's one that was reported yesterday.

Clippersfan86
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Well... meeting with players you admit are well out of our price range, isn't productive. Ariza is getting 8+ mill a year most likely according to the latest. Almost double what we can afford.

clipper*joe
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At least they're trying. I've always said 5 million when we need a backup PG is not a lot of money to try and split it to get more than one player. You just wrote that we do have flexibility. In my opinion, I'd be happy with re-signing Collison and getting Ed Davis. That's realistic with a lot of optimism. There are not a lot of players in our price range that would give the kind of results some here want but it doesn't hurt to try and coax a player to take a pay cut to come here. talking to Ariza was a nothing to lose and all to gain scenario. I wouldn't call unproductive. Unproductive is not giving it a shot.

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