The Clippers CHOKE in Big Games. (P. 2)

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Agent0
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We have a lot of great pieces and can win eight his roster but we need more structured plays showcasing Blake Griffin. He should really be averaging 35+ per game as we just pound it in to him every chance they get. Also pound it into DJ. This will open up the perimeter, which when they make shots helps open up the inside. Double whammy!!!
We focus too much on offense this, offense that. As Paul's scoring offense comes back, we'll be fine. Blake's averaged 28 on 60 TS% over his last 30 games, that's fine,....

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LuckTheFakers
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Great post, Agent0! I, for one, am happy with the team's effort in the face of yet another injury striken year. I don't think anyone expected us to do so well when Paul went down and a few tough losses to top teams doesn't change that. We have yet to see the lineup Doc planned but if we are lucky it will all come together by the playoffs. Reddick, in particular, is so important to the team because he shifts all of the rotations and effectively gives us a bench.

As for the negative nancies like the OP... I have a theory. As I said, on this other forum we had a guy named BlueJays that was a complete buzzkill and drove away everyone with his negative spamming. Someone told me the knew him in real life and he was gambling on every game and then all of the nasty venting made more sense.. The Clipps were costing him money! So the trolling may really just be a cry for help.

clipper*joe
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Agent0 wrote:

Offense was bad yesterday, not denying that, it looked like a dysfunctional VDN offense, but if we shoot our regular season percentage, were within 2 points as the game is closing, or with a bit of a lead down the stretch.

There is a reason why we couldn't shoot our regular season percentage...Grizzlies dictated our offense. Allen alone changed the complexion of the game the moment he entered. Mind you, it was his first game back after missing 21 games. Part of our regular season % will continue to change with games like these. That's where my fear comes from.

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People are looking at Paul, but he created a lot of easy opportunities, he only committed 1 turnover and he got to the line 11 times and made 9. Paul from that stand point had the best offensive game of everyone on the team, including Blake. On the bright side, look at the rebounding in this game.

Paul also passed up a lot of open looks, stopped the offensive flow numerous times hesitating, and also had a few passes knocked out of bounds. While CP3 had 14 assists, some of them were just side to side passes that BG hit. I disagree that Cp3 had a better offensive game. He was 4-13/ 9-11. Great that he hit most of his FT's but 4-13 is horrible when you include all those easy in the paint shots he missed. Give me 10-21/8-14 any day.

CapsNClips
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Was anyone else pissed when Tony Allen came in for the first time and the arena was electric and we had the ball with 2.1 seconds and Collison had a chance to silence the crowd, but instead couldn't get a shot off?

It could've been a complete game changer if you ask me even though the chances of him hitting the shot were low, but the chances of him hitting the shot when he doesn't take it are even lower.

Agent0
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No, no, I meant if we shoot our regular season FT percentage, we were 10% under that. Even DJ at 1/5 usually would make 2/5. If we shoot our regular season field percentages we win the game easily, so no, I'm not talking about that. I don't expect to shoot the same against the Grizzlies who when healthy play as an elite defense as we would against the average team.

I don't think Paul would have made those open looks if he took them based on how his shot is going, so despite passing on the looks, as long as it didn't result in turnovers, it's okay in the end. You always have the weak assists as a PG, but he created quality looks, that obviously benefits the offense. He didn't have a terrible offensive game. He had a poor scoring game and terrible shooting game, but not a terrible offensive game.

Limiting turnovers and creating easy opportunities helps the offense. Blake did very well, but 10/21 is well under Blake's normal field shooting, but he also did force his way to the line like Paul, and if he made them, it would be different. Blake also attacked a bit differently,meh actually had a lot of touches this game, but he didn't see the angles based on Memphis' defensive positioning to attack at times.

Mainly what I'm getting at is that the play of Paul and Griffin offensively isn't what lost the game. Poor FT shooting, entry pass turnovers (we had about 3 maybe?), mediocre defense were things that could be remedied and won the game. Even if we only scored 3 points on those 3 extra possessions we lost because of lack of ability to make an entry pass, that's 3 more points, it changes whether you're playing from behind or ahead, etc.

We can't be a team that looks to only win if the offense is clicking, and can't expect the offense to always be clicking.

Icecoldclipper
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DJ has to grab those key rebounds you can have 20 rebs in a game but the last one in a huge game counts the most. Team still has a lot of learning to do and time is running out we need to defend and rebound better as a team. We need Paul to find his prime form again and to readjust the units.

fullcourt
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I don't consider a team that's not at full strength to be choking after losses like last night. I think the biggest problem we are facing is not the bench or the absence of JJ its the the fact that since they have been together there have really only been a couple of times where BG and CP have played like superstars at the same time. Its been almost two seasons of each of them taking turns being dominate but for us to get to where we want the team to be. They both must step up and dominate together more often and especially against the top teams. When I think back over the past 15 years I can't think of many pairing of superstars that have alternated this much.

Pippen,and Jordan

Duncan and Robinson

Shaq and Kobe

Nash and Amare

the Boston Big three

The heat big three

Just ask yourself how many times this year have you watched Blake and CP and thought , OH WOW they both are playing the best ball they can play ". I just don't believe that if Blake continues his play of late and that CP bring his superstar game that we would be losing games like last night.

When I watched OKC vs the heat the other night Lebron and Wade were locked in and Durant was not and Westbrook was returning from injury and it showed. The Thunder had no chance without Durant being locked in and Westbrook. We have to have the same thing from our superstars to be able to win games against other teams superstars.

clipper*joe
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I don't consider a team that's not at full strength to be choking after losses like last night. I think the biggest problem we are facing is not the bench or the absence of JJ its the the fact that since they have been together there have really only been a couple of times where BG and CP have played like superstars at the same time. Its been almost two seasons of each of them taking turns being dominate but for us to get to where we want the team to be. They both must step up and dominate....

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clipper*joe
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Fair enough. Just wasn't clear as to what you meant.

fullcourt
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Pippen had to take a backseat to Jordan Robinson was at the tail end of career Shaq was the dominant player and it was Kobe taking the backseat until roles were reversed. Nash was the star of the team, Amar'e was his PnR sidekick The Boston three all had to give up part of their game to succeed. Doc made mention of this when he came here. In fact, he told our players the same thing if they wanted this to work Wade had to take a backseat to LBJ and made it clear in a ESPN interview. They couldn't win a chip until Wade....

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Agent0
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I think back seat sounds like an inferior role, but depending on play style, etc, players can just compliment each other. People for some reason are always trying to set up the whole Batman / Robin thing, maybe it is a Skip Bayless imitation thing, but who cares. For example the Nash and Amare example, if anyone took a back seat it was Marion to both of them. He wasn't a shot creator and he wasn't the offensive force that Amare was, so he couldn't get any of those roles, he was the complimentary do it all guy. Amare and Nash were both maximized when together. Nash did the playmaking while Amare got the bulk of the shots and was the leading scorer.

That's the ideal place to get to. For example I wouldn't say anyone takes a backseat between Westbrook and Durant, they have to share certain a roles like playmaking when they are both playing, but that's how it works. Roles change a little without Westbrook, but that's expected. Pippen and Jordan complimented each other very well based on how that offense was run.

I think we have a similar situation because it is a PG/PF combo. Paul and Blake can and do compliment each other quite well, and we've seen it. Blake's improved shooting will also help that.

clipper*joe
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Are we now parsing words for the sake of argument? Really? If Wade has said he had to dial back his game and allow LeBron to flourish for the betterment of the team....How would you characterize that without sounding "inferior"? How about Robinson saying it was now Duncan's team? How about Pippen and some players saying he could have been more of a force if not for Jordan?

ClipperKyle32
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CP and Blake are very passive players. so when one is hot the other always wants to give them the ball. I believe Doc can get it out of them

Agent0
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My first line I said "depending on the playing style" (of the players), and etc, as in other factors such as strengths and weakness, it might not be a backseat situation.

Actually I agree about Wade and Lebron, they aren't specifically complimentary players, they have the same play style and operating areas, and it was an adjustment. Their first season they would basically take turns initiating and didn't really work together. They are better now. On the other hand, if you had a team of Lebron and Bosh plus complimentary payers to them with no Wade, then Bosh is a second option, probably giving you about 22-24 PPG and 8-9 RPG and he's more or as efficient as a scorer as his best Raptor days, while Lebron is your primary facilitator and first option, still putting up big numbers. They are both maximized, and that's the same if it is Wade and Bosh with no Lebron.

Similar to pairing Kobe and Gasol for example. One's production doesn't really impinge on the other one, that was one I thought would be great from the get go based on Gasol's style of play and skill set. So I'm just saying that it depends on the pairings and bit on the positions too. Some guys have to take a backseat, some other pairings, both are being maximized because they are complimentary. It's usually the third guy or the Barnes and Dudley's who loose possessions to accommodate for your best guys.

Pippen and Jordan was fine because of roles in the triangle. Jordan played the post role and Pippen more of the primary facilitator, so they didn't really step on each other's toes and limit each other because of that. Numbers wise, Pippen wasn't really different with or without Jordan. His best scoring rate was in 93-94 with Jordan and he had highe assist rates in multiple seasons with Jordan than he did in 94-95 and 95-96.

He was for the most part the same player in terms of game and actual production whether Jordan was there or not. You can find pairings where it just works because their games compliment as opposed to conflicting each other. Lebron and Wade are a good example of the opposite, as well as something like Howard and Gasol, etc.

Paul and Blake because they have different operating areas on the court and because the productivity of one generally is positive to the productivity of another don't or at least ideally shouldn't have this issue. We talked about how Paul used to get Blake less fast break opportunities, but Paul made the ones he did get more efficient and also vastly improved Blake's half court effiiciecu because even one more high percentage shot each game than before is a boost that it balanced out. Of course the ideal is both half court and maximizing Blake's transition opportunities and even without Paul we've seen that from Blake this season, which is good. It wasn't perfectly seamless, but they don't have conflicting talents.

We saw that together dominating for 10-15 games right before Paul got injured, but no one else on the team was producing at that time (j.j was out), so while the team still won like 67% of their games, they could have won even more if there was some more complimentary player help.

statsman
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Looks like the OP doesn't know what he's talking about. Either that or his trolling backfired. LOL @him.

cleepers
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Funny thing is, as big as this game was, it was a "schedule loss". Nobody would (or should) have blamed us for losing. It's the "small" games we need to take care of down the stretch and we'll be fine.

ClipperKyle32
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I think the Thunder choke in big games. Choked in the Finals, Durant choked today with 2 missed FTs. The Thing is the Clips played Friday and the Thunder played Thursday. 2 days rest without....

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Icecoldclipper
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A team has a lot to prove we need to increase the defensive effort against great teams.

toohipcliptoslip
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The most elegant form of basketball is team play. The Pistons, Spurs and old Celtics were teams. There was no "Big anything" Yes there were stars but this was not the focus. To the Great Unwashed the Spurs are boring but they are art because they are a team.

Mr. Russell in his reply to LeBron's Foot Up a*s omission replied that teams win rings. "Great teams make great players not the other way around" Mr Russell. Bill would have made LeBron think once, twice, thrice and quatrice. Give him the two inches extra height from generational change. You have a 6'11" monster.

I would just as soon see JJ kill off screens or Dudley light it up from the corner as BG or DJ dunk. 2 pts is 2 pts. Or Doc design a game winning out of bounds play

CP

JJ

Dudley as was expected

BG

DJ

Doc

This is a team. Who gives a rats's rump about Big Threes? On any given day any of them can light you up as it should be

ClipperPostman
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I hear you bro, but that Model hasn't worked since the Showtime Lakers got

on the scene.

Kingkanyon
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Yet in Still The Pistons had 4 All-Stars on their team. Spurs V1 and 2 had 3 both times, and the Celtics had their fare share of All-Stars, just because they're not given the moniker doesn't mean they aren't it, but your Half right. They were great "Teams".

clipnasty
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I hate to say it, but it seems JQuick is one of the "new" clipper fans. His posts the last week have been entertaining to say the least

Jerediscool
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Entertaining like a rash.

calipublicist
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Sure didn't choke in today's game versus OKC.

cleepers
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That's not fair... even "a rash" Markazi has been fairer (and more entertaining) about our team than JQuick32 lately. Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_08

Jerediscool
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Haha very true cleepers. I guess well have to wait until we lose another game to hear from our most optimistic fan. He seems to have disappeared with the win over OKC... Weird

clipnasty
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Despite being 5-5 in the last 10, we are # 1 in Hollinger's rankings...http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/powerrankings

I know it does not mean anything, but interesting none the less.

Agent0
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There was a possible discussion that could have come out of this, despite JQuick's borderline trolling. The team had not yet had success on the road against an elite level team. Now they have, that's a good confidence builder.

We could have had a nice conversation about why the team had struggled against those teams, what could be done to remedy, etc, but instead we talked about choking. Ah well...

sipclip
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This team is obviously still flawed but once CP gets back to being CP then I'm pretty confident about going up against any of the top teams in this league. We still have to get JJ back healthy though with no one else going down to really make some noise in the west.

CP3Best
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I loved how we did the Opposite of Choking yesterday, they made so many crowd elating runs but we weren't phased we Didn't Panic, this along with the signing of Big Baby is getting me really excited about the rest of our games, still very lil production from the bench though, only Collison was really helpful, LOVED Bullock's hustle in tipping some offensive rebounds in the 3rd but we need more. Let's hope Davis will give it to us.

sipclip
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I think Bullock just needs consistent minutes. Once he gets that then I think you will see his shooting stroke get going. To be honest I would mind seeing him head to the dleague for a few games to shake off some of the rust and see the ball go into the hoop.

ClippersDA
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This rockets game is huge. Gotta win it for bragging rights and a variety of other reasons. It's annoying rockets have achieved squat like is but are seen as legit already.

A_DOG_NAMED_BUD
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We already ran them out of the gym twice this season. I see another win on Wednesday night

prokreation
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Clipper Fan since 1992.

Jquick is a new Clipper fan who feels entitled.

Let's enjoy the journey everyone.

I'm loving this season. Every game, every play.

Welcome GLEN DAVIS!

Next up GRANGER!

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