Clippers @ Pelicans Game Thread 2014-03-26 (P. 8)

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gman
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Yep, Ajinca has never gone off on other teams. Nope. Fans of contending teams just need to suck it up that this sort of thing happens sometimes.

By my count 4 of those points came when the game was out of reach (4 FT in final 2 mins). Didn't have the same impact as he did tonight or any other game vs Clippers.

ClipTakeover
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What makes me mad is how they didn't have some of their decent players tonight. EG, Roberts. Main thing that bugs me about the loss, besides CP's struggles.

JQuick32
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I have no clue who you're talking about from some other forum, but I'm not bringing any "act" anywhere. Take a look at the last three games and then try to tell me we've played well lately. We played like absolute garbage against the Bucks and Pistons but those teams managed to suck worse than us so we still won. That still doesn't mean we played well in those games. We played like **** again tonight and got beat - and we're lucky the final score was even as close as it was. Now we have four tough road games coming up, and this team has been mediocre on the road all season. If you can't see the potential problems arising here, I can't help you.

LuckTheFakers
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Yeah not to mention that New Orleans blew out the Heat the other day. So obviously the Heat are first round fodder at best... IF they even make the playoffs.

kjavis
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That Is right, we blew NO out of the gym the last 2 games and this should have been chalked in as a W but since Denver we seem to have been on a small decline, seriously even Milwaukee gave us a good run for our money last game at home. To be honest I have yet to see the consistent 'Defense' that we apparently pride ourselves on, it seems the majority of our wins this season is from outscoring the opposition as opposed to 'holding' them to a points total less than ours. We don't win many games when we don't score at least 100pts.

Clippersfan86
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Look I can take losses. I can't take losses that are due to not playing hard. If your goal is a championship and it's a realistic one for your talent level that should NEVER be the reason you lost. Showing up like you don't care if you win is ALWAYS inexcusable. It's incredibly ignorant to box "true fans" into being optimistic or carefree with losses.. and to label those who get pissed about losses as lesser fans. We've discussed this time and time again. You can look at things how you want, just don't tell me how I need to look at it. I see the big picture here that many fail to see until it's too late. Which is the picture of Houston now being 1 game back, when we just had a 3 game lead the other day. By the end of this trip it's not out of the question that we could fall back to the 4 seed, rather than catching OKC at 2 which were just a half game ahead of us last week.

Do you know that in NBA history something really bad like only 4 teams have won a championship that weren't a top 2 or 3 seed? Teams at the 4 and under seed pretty much never win the NBA title. So the team should be having more urgency vs bad teams, especially severely short ones.

LuckTheFakers
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Give me a break. It is so obvious that you are BlueJaysClippers ****. Exact same expressions (who else says "sunshine pumping") and same annoying act of proclaiming the team is done when they lose to a bad team. Jeez, get over yourself. Every team has bad losses. Like I said, New Orleans just beat the world champion Heat badly.

Clippersfan86
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Stop baiting and personally attacking people. I'm giving you a first official warning. I suspect you're Grillinap and remember you can always be IP matched for confirmation and re-banned easily, so it would be wise to change your approach. Your posting style of baiting and insulting other people is against the forum rules.

LuckTheFakers
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I am not that guy, you can check if you want. I do have another account that I forget the name to though. I suppose I am annoyed because this guy trolled my regular forum and completely ruined it with his negativity. Seriously, it is a dead zone now.

On topic, why do people assume that when teams lose games they are expected to win it is because they aren't trying or taking the win for granted? Sometimes the other team is just better that night. It's not like Paul tried to miss every shot... He had a bad game. It happens. Move on and get the next one.

Agent0
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I think this year we have to take his injuries into account for some of the stretches. Also straight up FG% is a hard measure because he has poor shooting games where he makes it up at the line.

Lastly, consistency is always relative to comparison. Once every 7 games is something like 12 games in an 82 game season, that doesn't really sound so bad now does it?

Can we compare his consistency to the master of consistency Lebron or to Durant? Remember, while CP is considered the third highest impact player by a lot of people, we all also understand that there's a decent gap after #1 and #2 and that CP is in contest with the a Harden's and Curry's not Lebron and Durant who are really in an echelon of their own.

With that said, I do agree that his scoring consistency is quite all over the place, though of course he also isn't necessarily limited to impact through scoring. I'll look at the comparison for his three years and see if there's a pattern.

Games with 40% FG or under:

11-12 - 18/60 (30%)

12-13 - 23/70 (33%)

13-14 - 19/53 (36%)

Games under .510 TS%:

11-12 - 20/60 (33%)

12-13 - 22/70 (31%)

13-14 - 23/53 (43%)

In terms of straight up FG%, no, but when we look at TS%, it's a different story. If we look at since he came back from injury (19 games), he's had a TS% .510 or below in 9/19 games, so almost every other game, though he would still be at 14/34 (41%) and higher than previous seasons before the injury, but it has certainly been worse.

...and of course I can't limit effectiveness in a game to TS% as there are other factors! but just for a basic look, not meant so specifically be comprehensive as to whether they were good or bad games overall.

JQuick32
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How often does LeBron shoot 0-12 in any game, let alone against a short-handed lottery team? I know Paul George has had a few of those terrible shooting nights, but he's a fringe top-10 player at best, if that, whereas CP3 is hyped up to be near LeBron/Durant's level.

JQuick32
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"Sunshine pumping" is a pretty common phrase, especially among college sports fans for some reason. Nobody is proclaiming that the team is done, just that there are some very troubling signs with this team recently. Yes, New Orleans beat the Heat, and I'm sure over on the Heat boards, fans expressed concern just like we're doing.

It's you who needs to get over yourself. I try to be as fair as possible with my judgement of this team, but fair does not mean completely ignoring anything even remotely negative about the team. Believe it or not, not everyone is going to have the same opinion as you.

Clippersfan86
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Repped. As always appreciate the input and effort you put into your posts. Thanks for finding the figures. So basically my suspicions seem accurate in terms of purely shooting consistency? In his defense.. I think his D and passing are better this year than previous two years.... but I can't find a reason for the shooting issues. Mainly because his first two years he missed games with multiple injuries as well (at least year two more so) and it doesn't hold him back so much. I'd understand if all the bad games were post shoulder injury, but many were before that and he just had his best 3 game scoring stretch of the year before tonight.

Clippers_FTW
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I'm going to bed.

LuckTheFakers
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After the 63 pt game LeBron had a whole week of terrible games and the Heat lost a bunch. That's even worse and it happens to the best of them.

Point is, if you hold the Clippers to such high standards that you panic whenever they lose a game they are supposed to win, you will never ever be happy. No team in the NBA has ever had a season without bad losses.

Agent0
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No ones stock is close to those players. Paul makes $18.7M. Hill and George after his extension will combine for $23.8M or $6M more, so you can't even do that.

Harden and Beverly, well good luck with that, and similarly DeRozan and Lowry, but to each his own.

Clippersfan86
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You're downplaying the frequency of letdown games, that's the issue here. The Clippers are barely a .500 road team and have lost more games to lotto teams than any other "contender" last I saw. When we lose to other contenders like San Antonio was doing most of the year it's understandable. You're losing to teams of similar caliber. When you're losing to far inferior teams, it's hard to come up with the why and how. Usually the only answer is lack of effort and focus.

Stop comparing the Clippers to the Heat please. The Heat are back to back champs, 3 straight finals appearances in.. and are clearly bored/complacent which even the Bulls players and coaches have alluded to happening when you win so much. Not only that but every year the Heat prove they have a playoff switch. The Clippers haven't EARNED that right or PROVEN they have that switch yet, so it's a bad comparison.

Clippers_FTW
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ps:memphis losing to Jazz and they "must" win to stay with it.

JQuick32
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You're missing the point. It's not just one loss that I'm reacting to. It's a number of factors - the loss, the stretch of sub-par play that in all honesty dates back to after the Golden State game but has mostly been masked by wins against bad teams, the fact that we're on a long road trip with a mediocre road record this year and just dropped the most winnable game of them all, and the fact that our lead for the 3rd seed has shrunk to one game and we play Houston on Saturday. If it was just one random bad loss, I'd be fine, but the context around it worries me. Now, there's always a chance that this team pulls their heads out of their asses after this, and I sincerely hope they do so. I just have my doubts that it will happen.

Dunkathon
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I suppose, but too many people here act like so-called "scrubs" only go off against the Clippers, and not any other team. Even if he really only does go off against the Clippers, so what? It's the Clippers job to still win, and the fans should stop griping about this sort of thing happening, especially since it does no good for anyone.

LuckTheFakers
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I would love to know by what measure you are judging this team then. The Clippers have the second bets point differential in the league(behind the Spurs who have to be the title favorites right now). This is generally the best predictor of future success and shows that they are playing good basketball. Yes we've had a few bad losses but so has EVERY SINGLE TEAM! For the most part we've blown out teams we are supposed to blow out, beaten the teams we're supposed to beat, and split to the top teams. The Clippers are bot the favorites but we are most certainly in the short list of contenders. Tonight changes nothing at all. That's what I don't get about you guys who panic on losses ... It's just a fact of life in this league.

Clippersfan86
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You're missing his point. It's the 2 losses to inferior teams combined with squeaking by two bad teams at home. So it's 4 bad games in a row, not just one bad loss. Maybe you should expand your thinking to a more "big picture" approach some time and focus less on the micro. It's a feel for the momentum of the team, not a reaction to one game.

david
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Just finished watching the game. Obviously, a multitude of things caused the loss. Chris Paul 2 points, didn't even make one FG in 12 tries- that's just crazy. The poor free throw shooting really hurt as well, specifically DJ 0 for 4, and Blake missing more than usual. Then there were the killer turnovers that lead to transition baskets & 3's by the Pelicans. Oh & who the heck, please, is Darius Miller? He had no business scoring 16 points (including some clutch shots down the stretch).

You add up all those things, even a hot 3 point shooting night can't save you. Bench play, BTW, was shaky once again. Big Baby is simply too short to go up against a guy like Ajinca. This was probably a game where either Big Baby or Turkoglu had to sit in favor of Hollins, but Doc did no such adjustment. I was also surprised that there wasn't more ball pressure & trapping in the backcourt against the Pelicans who were playing basically without a point guard.

Well, not much time to mull over the defeat- gotta bounce back and get a big win in Houston tomorrow.

LuckTheFakers
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But I'm not downplaying anything. I would venture that the Clippers have less bad losses than every team except the Spurs and OKC. Certainly they have less than the Heat.

Also, I would much rather have bad losses than losses to good teams. The 3-0 against Houston is HUGE. Same with Dallas, OKC, etc. we won't play the Cavs, Bobcats, or Pelicans in the playoffs but there is a damn good chance we'll see Houston or OKC.

LuckTheFakers
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Certainly the Clippers aren't playing as well as they were during the winning streak but if they did that all year they would be the best offensive and defensive team in the NBA and would have a double digit point differential. Just not realistic. Anyone who follows the league knows there are going to be lulls. I don't expect the Spurs to run the table from here even though they look unstoppable atm.

The NBA season is long enough that by now we know the team. And the Clippers are damn good and one loss (or a few so so games in a row) doesn't change that. The key at this point is to stay healthy going into the playoffs. If that is the case, I don't care if we are 2, 3, or 4 because we will be a handful.

Call it sunshine pumping if you want.

LuckTheFakers
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The one thing I didn't like was the lineup to start the fourth where we onlyreally had Crawford for offense and Collison was getting abused by Evans. It took an 8-0 run for Doc to call a timeout. Maybe that is Popovich logic but I would have liked to see him be a bit more proactive there since that unit stunk.

aksel
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I hate being a second round team

JQuick32
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This.

Since the Golden State game, we...

  • trailed by 10 to the Jazz at one point

  • nearly blew a 21-point lead to Cleveland by giving up a 12-0 late-game run

  • lost to Denver (this one was understandable)

  • blew 13-point and 11-point leads to Detroit

  • only beat the Bucks - the worst team in the league - by 8, while letting them hang around all game, even getting as close as within 2 points

  • lost to New Orleans with CP3 completely vanishing

Even in the wins, we have looked shaky at best against teams we should have beaten with ease.

Now here's some other facts to consider...

  • New Orleans is a lottery team and was missing six players tonight... and we STILL lost

  • We play Dallas tomorrow, and we're under .500 on the second night of a B2B

  • We play four tough road games against good teams now, NOLA was our most winnable game of the trip

  • We're only two games over .500 on the road

  • We only lead Houston by one game and play them on Saturday

I can't explain any clearer why I'm concerned about this team right now - hopefully this will do.

david
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Yeah I was hoping for a timeout earlier, or the starters to come back earlier, but didn't happen until more the 7 or 6 minute mark if I remember right.

aksel
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^^^ Add in the fact that we need the 2 seed so we don't play GSW in the first round and have homecourt in the second round against okc cause that is the only way we beat them. If we stay in the 3rd will probably beat the warriors in 7 and lose to okc in 5 or 6. Another wasted season.

LuckTheFakers
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I think as a simple exercise you should look at every contending team and see that they all have similar situations, except for maybe the Spurs who are just robots. What I keep trying to stress to you is that the Clippers are in the upper echelon and that is illustrated by all advanced metrics as well as the obvious point differential. They also have one of the easier remaining schedules among the west contenders. I'm sure we will lose a few more games, but so will everyone else. So don't freak out if the worst happens and we lose again or even let Houston pass us, because these other teams are going to have bad losses of their own too.

LuckTheFakers
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Yep exactly. I think that sequence is really what cost the Clipps the win. The entire game was catchup ball after that point and that takes a toll on players.

LuckTheFakers
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Warriors and the Okc would be a perfect bracket for us. Warriors and their clown coach don't scare me at all and okc is a good matchup for us. Worst would be grizzlies then spurs.

JQuick32
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I go back and forth on the Warriors. The prospect of Curry and/or Klay heating up is pretty scary, but as you've mentioned, they're a poorly coached team in addition to being dysfunctional. They also get away with a lot of cheapshotting and overall dirty tactics just like Memphis. I actually like our chances against OKC if this team can pull their heads out of their asses. Brooks is a poor coach and Westbrook never plays well in LA. They're also pretty soft, so they're not likely to play as dirty as Memphis/GSW. If we make it past them, though, I don't see any way we beat the Spurs in the WCF, they're our worst possible matchup.

BaadMaster
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Exactly. Look at the Heat and Indiana. I was through two Lakers runs, a total of six Finals, and the regular season was INFURIATING. Blowing big leads, losing to bum teams -- but the Championship teams save it for the playoffs. They have superstars -- like CP3 and BG -- who have another gear to switch into.

The concern isn't the Clippers -- it will be the refs who will change the outcome of some games and you gotta hope they don't have it in for Los Angeles. (Yes, the LOS ANGELES Clippers, the team from my home town). They gave the Celtics their Championship and handed the Heat their first against Dallas on a phantom call on DWade. (He wasn;t even touched. Youtube it.) And they bend the rules for LeBron with regularity.

So, if you want to worry. Worry about the refs. The team will be fine.

BTW I spoke to the Alien Commander. The Spurs are their R777 Robotic Basketball Prototype which they are testing on Earth.

Clippersfan86
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Grillinap how about you let people post how they want as long as it's within forum rules and go your own way about it? The idea that one method of venting, expressing opinions or showing loyalty is right, is very small minded. You've shown very little reasoning ability based on the fact that you repeatedly bring up the same things of little relevance to this forum. Talk about the content being discussed and worry less about trying to manage personalities.

LuckTheFakers
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Ideally the Spurs are blowing their wad now and will hit a lull come playoffs. The dream (and very possible) bracket has the playing memphis and then houston, or maybe Dallas/houston (dirk always plays the spurs tough). If they can be taken out and we can get by okc, finals is a lock.

Agent0
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it's interesting though the perception can be guided by the narration, but I agree to an extent that the team hasn't played its best lately. On the other hand I don't really think we can project too much from this or start to say this team can't win in the playoffs because of this stretch, it is a short sighted view for us to do that. That's where I jump off that bus.

Clippersfan86
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The Lakers were a proven commodity. Despite the frustration... you knew deep inside, they find a way to get there. Maybe not to win it all... but at least to be a finals mainstay. All this team has proven historically is that it has a habit of shooting itself in the ass. So you cannot expect Clippers fans to have the same peace of mind. Overall long term, I love the big picture. Two stars, lots of talent, great coach, great front office... but short term that doesn't put me at ease. Because as a long time NBA fan I've learned how cruel the NBA is. How quickly a title window can be shortened to 0. How quickly one severe injury can alter the course of your franchise. The fans/team should not take ANYTHING for granted. The attitude has to be to win now at all costs.

CP3Best
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Is it just me or is our defense NOT getting any better? And would someone explain to me why Doc is so bent on having Hedo play over Hollins?

comeONcraig
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2 words... "Stretch Four"

ClippersDA
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I'm so irritated by this loss. Very unsettling

Icecoldclipper
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Start playing Hollins or sign a big man to a ten day deal. The going small with the bench has failed. Granger needs to start despite the bad game.

OregonLAC
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Lol at the overreaction from one game

Clipperfn4lf
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Blake Griffin is the clippers and no doubt a better player than Cp3. About 4 games a season chris paul is a complete no show, blake on the other hand never really takes a game completely off. Not hating on chris, but it has been evident in his brief playoff career.

BaadMaster
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Absolutely correct. And with the refs, sometimes a newcomer to the dance has to be FAR better than the opposition to win it all. Like Dallas was a few years ago. Nothing in the NBA is a given.

kjavis
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the average freethrow shooting is the norm for this team, the deal was losed with CPs 2pts, you would expect 50% shooting for him so that is at least 12pts from 12 shots which makes this game an easy win but instead a 2pt lose.

Problem with our bench right now is other than DC and Jamal are lacking impact players, guys that can come in and make crucial plays when needed, hedo and baby are just too passive, I'm hoping Granger can really step it up and be a consistent contributor, I have said this in another thread, this team should benefit better as a whole if Granger starts and Barnes off the bench

ClipperKyle32
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david wrote:

Well, not much time to mull over the defeat- gotta bounce back and get a big win in Houston tomorrow.

We Got Dallas Tomorrow Big Fella Very Happy

I'd say two experiments have to end. Darren Collison and Chris Paul / Hedo Turkoglu and Big Baby.

The experiments aren't working and they are hurting us. Hollins isn't bad , but he does foul. So did Big Baby at first and no one said anything.

I think you have to play Big Baby with a center. Its just that simple. Okay Yea Big Baby has girth, but when opposing players can just turn and shoot right over him, IT HURTS THE TEAM. Same with Collison, He is too quick for them to go by them , but they can just raise up and shoot over him.

Explain this:

Darius Miller goes off last night. Did anyone take the chance to look him up. Well here it is.

#2 SF 6'8", 225 lbs New Orleans Pelicans. Okay yeah I didn't know he was a 6'8" SMALL FORWARD. Then why in the hell is Darren Collison ( #2 PG 6'0", 175 lbs Los Angeles Clippers ) guarding him. There is a guy named Reggie Bullock ( #25 SG 6'7", 205 lbs Los Angeles Clippers ) or Jared Dudley ( #9 SF 6'7", 225 lbs Los Angeles Clippers ) or hell there is a guy named Danny Granger ( #33 SF 6'9", 228 lbs Los Angeles Clippers )

Why would you put Collison on a guy with an 8 inch advantage over him? That makes no sense. We had plenty players available to play against him. As A coach, i would have ran barnes and Bullock,Dudley, or Granger to match their size. I saw coming into this game they were going to have size with Tyreke at the helm. It makes no sense. I hate these substitution patterns or rotations Doc has. They are so Vinny like. Be like Pop. No matter who you have on the bench you play anyone who can help. Pop would see the size difference and would have thrown a Dudley in immediately. I mean there were many things the could have been done by Doc to help win this game. Called a timeout before they got up 7, subbed the starters in earlier instead of giving them 6 minutes or less to work with, and finally stop the two experiments i spoke of above. Those have got to be done

=Om@R=
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All good teams have bad losses

E.G. When we sucked and beat teams like the heat, Celtics, lakers, blazers, etc.

I'm not worried, we barely lost to a team that is in a roll, with our superstar going 0-124036, whatever I can live with that.

All we gotta do now is bounce back with a good win at Dallas, I'm sure Cp3 will be focus and ready to go.

=Om@R=
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Thank you!! Hollins needs to stop being picked on the way people do haha he's not bad for just a role player 6 foul guy, he's out there to bug the opposing bigs, catch lobs, rebound, and bring passion. You need players like that on your team

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