Chris Paul Performance Discussion

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fray_27
Clipper 6th Man
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It sickens me to see how so many people on this forum are bashing chris paul and putting a lot of the blame on him. Are people forgetting him along with Blake and doc is the reason to why players want to come here and he'll even doc is here because of him? Why are people not blaming the fact that we just went up against OKC and the refs? The fact that we had no bigs so protect the rim besides DJ and some times blake? He's the best PG in the league and people say oh he doesn't work with Blake...well i don't know if people have noticed but he's a pass first type of guy. Now should the offense run a lot more through Blake of course it should but you can't just blame cp3 for that. I see people on here bash our players way to much and yet you guys call yourself's fans? Oh but then paul comes and saves the day now you guys cheer for him huh? He defended curry so well and chased after him for 7 games I'm pretty darn sure having to deal with Westbrook next wasn't easy at all who doesn't have trouble with Westbrook? I honestly don't know how you guys can just bash chris paul like that after everything he's done for the team. I want to see my team win a title too and I know you guys want the same the we don't go and bash our own players and say oh we should trade him let's dump him that's not cool at all. I saw the same thing with Barnes and I defended him and I still will offensively maybe he didn't show up especially not last night but he locked down friken Kevin Durant to the best of his ability and showed that game 5 more than ever. The only way I would want Barnes gone is of we are getting something amazing from it other than that I think he should stay he's a great team mate and the chemistry he has the team is great. I'm just tired of seeing way to many people on this forum talk trash on our own players especially a player like cp3. Why not just say we need better wing players and bigs so back up our starters? My last point is this granger didn't pan out anywhere near we thought he would and I think he's part to blame too we would have been better going after butler again. I love my team and I love our players do we need a tweak of course what we don't need is people so negative all the time so to those fans f**k off

ClippersDA
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Because he was the one who choked away game 5 and made people question his legacy. He admitted it's his fault. People have a right to their opinions, this isn't an Orwellian universe last I checked. If you want to be happy and positive about this season go ahead but don't blame those of us who had higher expectations

fray_27
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 102
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I had high expectations too and I know that if it wasn't for the refs constantly helping OKC out we would have won this series. And yea he fucked up game 5 but didn't Crawford **** it up too then they both went for threes when they should have passed it to blake and attack the rim. be aggressive my point one rant was that people on here want to trade him and get rid of him

Is he perfect no he the only one to blame no other factors and players are too blame too.

ClippersDA
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But Chris Paul is the leader, runs the offense and highest paid. Sorry it's on him

fray_27
Clipper 6th Man
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So your telling me this whole series was lost because of him? It had nothing to do with the fact that big baby our second first big off the bench? And OKC was having layup drills when DJ wasn't out there? Or the fact that way too many times we would fall in love with the three pointer the refs all of that factors in like JJ shot way many catch and shoot threes and they wouldn't go in so who's not to say of they would have gone for the two pointer it would have made a difference

CP3Heliflopter
CTB MVP X2
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A lot of the people who bash him also overreact and say we loss the game when we are down 5 at the start of the first quarter. Just put them on ignore where they belong and CP3 was the best player in this series by a large margin. He messed up in game 5(also got jobbed badly by refs) but was the best player on our team for pretty much every other game.

People who blame him use Skip Bayless esque logic.

fray_27
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 102
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About time someone who can see my point thanks heliflopper and I totally agree with you and they seem to be the same people who were thinking we were actually going to loose to the golden state. Some people on here just seem to be with the clippers when they win

FightOnRon
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YOu are not alone ,I agree with what say too. Must be newer fans that do not know what the last 20 years have been like. This was the greatest year ever, we build every year on our foundation. CP3 is the best pg in the league but he is not a one man show nor should he be.

If he were so bad he wouldn't be on top of the assist leader board,doing what a PG is supposed to do. So he doesn't win us a ring this year with his aching hammy, busted up shoulder and broken left hand. Imagine that. We have a new coach that didn't win the NBA finals in his first year with half a new team, imagine that.

Someone critiqued on the game thread that no one cheered EJ when he was on the big screen. 3/4 of the arena did not even know who he is. They knew Jack Nicholson though!

So this is what CLipper NAtion has become. We don't cheer for someone we don't know and we get angry because with a virtually new team, a point guard that is hurt in a way that most anyone here with his injuries would stay home and phone it in , one of the biggest controversy in the NBA's history (thanks Don)and a new coach , and therefore we didn't win the NBA finals.

I had a blast this year and am planning on having even a better time next year. Somewhere in the next 3-4 years,we get there.....providing Satan....errr DTS....doesn't eff this deal up by being a dick.

bballman
Clipper Starter
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besides,we were good enough this year. Just got screwed in the end.

CP3Heliflopter
CTB MVP X2
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We may have loss this year but we definitely made progress. We will only get better next season. A few small moves(getting a better SF and backup bigs) can make us better by a decent margin.

fray_27
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 102
votes: 3

Exactly it seems like the long term fans understand me and my point I've been a fan since 2000 and man have we been through a lot as clipper fan. I agree with @fightonron this year was amazing we did everything we did without solid bigs we did it with players not panning out how we thought they would. OKC got the best of us this year but next year we a better team and hopefully new ownership well be in the finales!!!!

There is one thing I am going to say and it's something I've always believed in and thought in. I honestly think we need a player like melo on this team we need a go to scorer cp3 can't do it alone and blake needs to work on the jump shot he's getting there but needs a little bit more help or work on it.

CP3Heliflopter
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We need a 3 & D guy like Kawhi Leonard or Ariza. Someone who can slow down guys like Durant or even Westbrook. Imagine if we had another capable defensive SF. I think Ariza could have slowed down Westbrook a bit. Barnes did a pretty good job on Durant.

fray_27
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 102
votes: 3

I agree with that too I would just like to see a go scorer besides Jamal and jj get me but I agree with you one of those two players would be great.

I'm a big gator fan and was so pissed off when we passed on parsons I saw the potential he had and would love him too solid all around. Main weakness with this team are the wings and the bigs. We fix those problems with really good back ups and wing players the nba better watch out

wessleejr
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OK we need rest stop the blame game, It's Docs first year with us and Sterling messed up the team in the middle of the P/O. As of now we don't have bright future. If sterling will not sell the team We are in big trouble.

JQuick32
CTB MVP X1
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I'm so tired of the Sterling excuse. Yes, he's a piece of **** and a cancer to the league. Yes, he deserves to be gone. But this far from the first controversy DTS has had during the Blake era alone, and the players still had no problem taking his money and playing for him until now. Jordan, Pippen and Phil hated the owner and GM in Chicago and the feeling was mutual, but it didn't stop them from winning rings. Champions aren't distracted so easily.

CapsNClips
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There's a difference between not liking your owner and having mass amounts off pressure put on you from the entire world to not play for a racist owner. Every morning our players had to wake up and ask themselves if they were doing the right thing by playing during these controversial times.

You're insane if you think any team before us has had to go through a situation even remotely close to what our team went through.

tense2
CTB MVP X2
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Would like to have SG that can play both ends of the ball. Move Redick to the 2nd unit. Cut the reins on Crawford.

ClippersDA
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I'm not convinced we will go into next season with both redick and Crawford.

FightOnRon
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Worst thing ever to happen in the history of the NBA, IMHO. It shook we fans to the core, think how it affected our team and our organization.

Spot on

lobcityhawaii
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I agree. We need another 3 that can play D and shoot the 3 consistently. Barnes did his best on D but he could rarely hit wide open shots consistently.

CapsNClips
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For the fans. Enjoy this

I never wish any harm on players, but Serge is an exception and a loose cannon and karma is protecting future opponents of Ibaka.

clipnasty
Clipper All-Star
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Sheesh. Now imagine if we had won game 5....

tense2
CTB MVP X2
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Doesn't guarantee we win the series. We need to continue to improve our team, which I have no doubt we will, especially when The Donald gets the boot. That's the biggest improvement by far.

tense2
CTB MVP X2
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CapsNClips wrote:
For the fans. Enjoy this

I never wish any harm on players, but Serge is an exception and a loose cannon and karma is protecting future opponents of Ibaka.

With or without Ibaka SA wins. It'll be a repeat of last years title game.

clipnasty
Clipper All-Star
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I did not think I would ever get over that Game 5 loss, and now knowing that Ibaka would have been out Game 7, I am even more sure of it.

toohipcliptoslip
CTB MVP X1
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There is a big difference between responsibility and blame. Was CP responsible for some screw ups, yes. Do I BLAME him? no. Forget refs, DTS and anything else. There is one and only one question, Did He Choke? If he did, acknowledge it and find out why dispassionately because if you don't you can't fix it.It WILL happen again.

This is not blame it's responsibility. The problem when viewed dispassionately could be that CP needs to go --or not but you are not Cliff Paul. Chris is expendable.

cleepers
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CapsNClips wrote:
For the fans. Enjoy this

I never wish any harm on players, but Serge is an exception and a loose cannon and karma is protecting future opponents of Ibaka.

But... but... OKC has to get through San Antonio, then Miami... that's about thirty guys... that like, SIXTY testicles... and those nuts aren't going to punch themselves.

If anybody here owns stock in athletic-cup manufacturing companies... SELL, SELL, SELL!!!

Dunkathon
Clipper All-Star
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I would keep Redick as a starter, regardless of what happens to Crawford. His off-the-ball movement is fantastic, and you're underrating his defense. Is he a defensive stopper? No, but he has good fundamentals.

CP3Heliflopter
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I don't think it would be a guarantee. The Thunder did backdoor sweep the Spurs in 2012. Neither team is the same as they were back then though.

CP3Heliflopter
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I feel the same way tbh but I doubt we move Crawford. To me he is fools gold and always has been. If he was at least an average defender I might have considered otherwise but he has Westbrook esque shot selection without the athleticism and he is horrendous defender.

Bingo3
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Repped High Quality Post

Agree with your points. Blake is the golden child and Chris is the horse they beat down when things go to hell. Understandably he made mistakes in game 5 and he deserved some criticism, but the irrational hatred and people wanting to trade him is pretty sad. You don't realize how good you have things, until their gone.

WinningBasket
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 2002

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Since the NBA failed to reprimand Ibaka for that cheap nut shot on Blake, it looks like karma took care of it instead. Seems fair to me.

WinningBasket
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Man, people need to stop bashing CP. It's just so damn negative and unproductive. If anyone is hard on himself, it's CP. No doubt he'll learn from this experience and be a better player because of it.

Let's move on. Clippers had a good season overall when you consider ALL the injuries. The core group will return under Doc's leadership and will be an even more cohesive group, playing as one team with one goal in mind. Like Doc said, it's a process. Embrace the process and support our team.

cleepers
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They need somebody to hate and Vinny's not here anymore.

tense2
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All the more reason to move him. Hopefully Doc see it the same way.

tense2
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Keep his "good" fundamentals with the 2nd unit where they'll need it and he'll make them stronger. Give me that 2 way player as a starter where it'll make a real impact.

CP3Heliflopter
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CP3 is the Westbrook of the Clippers now apparently.

BaadMaster
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The only trash that should be talked about is naming the crooked refs by name. Even in the final game, they HAD TO take that DJ bucket away, foul out BG and destroy our comeback. It was total ref destruction.

In close games, between two great teams, if the refs take an active part for one side, game over. You cannot win. The teams are too evenly matched for one team to overcome the disparity.

I will always remember this OKC series as the RefBall series.

This is not sour grapes. IT IS TRUTH.

Dunkathon
Clipper All-Star
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Sorry, but Redick works MUCH better as a starter than as a bench guy. He's not going to get nearly as many good shots on the bench with Crawford/Collison taking them all, and his off ball movement is invaluable. As I said before, you're vastly underrating his defense.

Also, who is this "2 way player"? Someone who can have a real impact on both offense and defense as a shooting guard usually is someone you'll have to trade for, not someone you can just poach in free agency. In addition, most of these two-way shooting guards that are actually out there are superstars, meaning they likely won't be on the trading block. I'm curious as to who you have in mind, because everyone I can think of (that is starting caliber) won't be available for trade or doesn't fit your standards.

CapsNClips
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Who's a good 2 way player at the SG spot that we can get?

toohipcliptoslip
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The Odyssey to Fort Kiowa[edit]

Despite his injuries, Glass regained consciousness. He did so only to find himself abandoned, without weapons or equipment, suffering from a broken leg, the cuts on his back exposing bare ribs, and all his wounds festering. Glass lay mutilated and alone, more than 200 miles (320 km) from the nearest American settlement at Fort Kiowa on the Missouri.

In one of the more remarkable treks known to history, Glass set his own leg, wrapped himself in the bear hide his companions had placed over him as a shroud, and began crawling. To prevent gangrene, Glass laid his wounded back on a rotting log and let the maggots eat the dead flesh.

Deciding that following the Grand River would be too dangerous because of hostile Indians, Glass crawled overland south toward the Cheyenne River. It took him six weeks to reach it.

Glass survived mostly on wild berries and roots. On one occasion he was able to drive two wolves from a downed bison calf, and feast on the meat. Reaching the Cheyenne, he fashioned a crude raft and floated down the river, navigating using the prominent Thunder Butte landmark. Aided by friendly natives who sewed a bear hide to his back to cover the exposed wounds as well as providing him with food and a couple of weapons to defend himself, Glass eventually reached the safety of Fort Kiowa.

After a long recuperation, Glass set out to track down and avenge himself against Bridger and Fitzgerald. When he found Bridger, on the Yellowstone near the mouth of the Bighorn River, Glass spared him, purportedly because of Bridger's youth. When he found Fitzgerald, he discovered that Fitzgerald had joined the United States Army, Glass purportedly restrained himself because the consequence of killing a U.S. soldier was death. However, he did recover his lost rifle.

This is what a champion does with bad calls. He refuses to lose. A bit of hyperbole of course. Ali fought with a broken jaw. Also a bit of interesting history This is the time to chanel the anger at the bad calls into getting mean and finding a way to overcome them.

proverbs
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CP3 is the heart and soul of this team. Iif you don't know this, you're not a real Clipper fan. We live an die with CP3 and he is the main reason why our team has been so successful. If you don't understand this, then you're not a real Clipper fan. CP3 and Blake will lead us to a championship next year. If you don't believe thisGTFO and stop whining and go root for another team!

You might want to blame CP3 for the loss, but you must acknowledge that the main reason we are are successful is because of him.

toohipcliptoslip
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I don't think you've been on this post or a Clipper fan long enough to pass judgement on who is a fan and who is not. We can disagree without questioning someone's fan-aticism. CTB does not tolerate that stuff. Read the rules. We don't live and die with CP3 or anybody else. We live and die by being the best we can be - period. If you expect one man to lead a team anywhere we're screwed. Bill Russell the real number 6 has more rings than fingers. Someone mentioned to him that a great player makes his team great. He said it was the other way around. A great team makes a player great. The heart and soul of this team is a ring. If CP3 is so invaluable why did we do well on the road without him? There are no heroes only winners and losers.

Bingo3
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That period when Chris went down, we played a bunch of bottom feeders and it was the easiest part of our schedule. We never could Indiana, Miami, Golden State, etc. without him. We were usually blown out too.

clipper*joe
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Uhhh...What? If we don't know CP3 is the heart and soul of this team, we're not "real" clippers fans? I take it you just jumped on the bandwagon to say some blasphemous shyte like that. I've been a Clippers fan since 1991 and I blame CP3 for potentially losing the series for us. CP3 is the highest paid player that we brought in to bring us a championship and ironically enough, he too, hasn't been further than the Clippers.

CP3 is the co-face of this franchise but he is not the heart and soul of this team. Actually, maybe you're right. maybe he is the heart and soul of this team. maybe that might explain how we haven't been past the second round since he's been here. Maybe his heart and soul maxes out in the second round. yeah, maybe you're right. Maybe it's time BG becomes the heart and soul of this team now. At least then, I can justify us getting bounced early and inexperience.

Dude, stop with your "superfan" crap. When you say stupid stuff like that about people's fandom, You'll get called out very easily.

clipper*joe
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We didn't win against Pacers, Heat, and even GS with him. lol

SamMays
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A few years ago, people said the best point guard in the league was Paul or Deron Williams. Then Rondo popped up onto the radar, then fell off the radar. Westbrook is a great athlete, but not a point guard in the truest sense. Virtually everyone knows that Chris Paul is the best pure point guard in the NBA. It's not his job to score 20 points a game.

It's his job to lead us to wins and he does that very, very well. We have a great player in Blake Griffin to help him. DJ has become a defensive force, but his foul shooting is a big problem. I don't care if he has no low post game. If he can become a 60% foul shooter, that will be good enough.

Our problem, other than Donald Sterling, of course, is at the SG and SF. These are positions that are loaded with great players, both offensively and defensively and we are below average at both positions. Barnes started for us, but ideally is a backup energy guy off the bench. JJ Redick is a shooter and not much else. Crawford, obviously, is a great scorer but neither he nor Redick defends well

If we can upgrade even a little bit at those two spots, we will be the best team in the league.

CP3 can continue being CP3, the best pure PG in the league. The idea that we need to get rid of him is ridiculous Look at teams that have won championships and the talent they have had We still have some holes to fill to get to that level, but CP3 is not one of them.

cleepers
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NBA.com article on this very subject...

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2014/05/1 ... f:nbahpt3c

Underlying theme: "STFU, all you Skip Cluelesses".

Bingo3
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But it was actually competitive. We got blown out without him.

clipper*joe
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Cool. For a second there, I thought all losses were the same.

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