Chris Paul Performance Discussion (P. 4)

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proverbs
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CP3 did have a few mistakes that really hurt us. You can be one of the fans that puts the blame solely on him because he is the leader of the team, but I don't think this is fair. Game 5 was one of the most horrible officiated games I've ever watched. I really don't want to be one of those fans that blames the refs, but seriously?! On top of that, the whole Sterling freak show had to have had some type of impact on this team. CP3 being the leader of the team and head of the players union, and Doc spending so much time trying to juggle all these things.

It might sound like excuses for CP3, but I truly feel that this could have been a completely different playoffs for the Clips if Tony Brothers overturned that ONE call, and more importantly, if this Sterling fiasco never happened.

dom1
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I have a question. Since some on here believes CP3 choked and cost us the series just because we lost game 5. Does that mean ZBO choked in the 1st round against the Thunder? I mean you can say his mental mistake cost his team a 2nd round date with us. I don't see many memphis fans and the media calling for his head. With ZBO in game 7 Memphis had a great shot of knocking OKC off. Just wondering the definition of CHOKE and if it applies in that situation. To me that is a bigger choke and was the dumbest mistake of the playoffs not CP3's turnovers in a non elimination game

clipper*joe
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Did Randolph's play cost the game? Were the Grizzlies in a "run out the clock" mode at that moment of the foul? Z-Bo got a regular foul for that during the game. I don't think they are the same thing at all.

clipper*joe
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You're forgetting that even if the play was not overturned, all we had to do was play defense and keep them from scoring and we win the game. Instead, CP3 commits another dumb play by fouling Westbrook's hero 3pt shot. That's two straight boneheaded plays that cost us the game. Stop making excuses for him.

Oh, and even after all that, we could have still won the game with time left on the clock.

clipper321
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Don't get me wrong Joe he did make a boneheaded couple of plays, however, that doesn't take away from the fact that had the call gone our way we would've been up 2 with the ball giving us a high probability of winning.

Either way it didn't happen and CP3 choked. Plus I was of the belief that OKC wouldve won the series anyway.

Icecoldclipper
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Zbo mentally and emotionally choked game 6 costing them in 7. He owned up for it and they loss game 7. Paul choked this ref stuff becomes weaker by the day. Chris Paul lost game 5 and game 6 was a walking dead effort when okc made its small runs.

ClippersDA
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He's like fallen off the face of the earth.

laboy
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when chris brings the ball in...he lets it roll so he can get some more seconds for a play...he rarely drives in for a lay up ..just brings the ball up the same way every time...so predictable..

he shoots when he has wasted 22 seconds on the clock ...or he goes for a tree at the beginning of the clock..the offend is stagnant...when they had bledsoe ...he would pressure the defense...he would drive in....there is no penetration in this offense...only when the second unit comes in...crawford and collision..

if collision leaves ...the clippers need a penetrating guard as back up...for the draft...they need to move up by trading their pic and maybe a player (dudley) and get the croatian center Jusuf.

JQuick32
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No, because it wasn't a basketball play, and the Thunder were blowing Memphis out (so there would have been nothing to "choke" away). ZBo was a complete idiot for doing it though. I thought he had finally grown up in Memphis, but it turns out he was still the same old ZBo who sucker-punched Amundson, beat up Ruben Patterson in practice, etc. all along. roll

Agent0
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laboy wrote:
when chris brings the ball in...he lets it roll so he can get some more seconds for a play...he rarely drives in for a lay up ..just brings the ball up the same way every time...so predictable..

he shoots when he has wasted 22 seconds on the clock ...or he goes for a tree at the beginning of the clock..the offend is stagnant...when they had bledsoe ...he would pressure the defense...he would drive in....there is no penetration in this offense...only when the second unit comes in...crawford and collision..

if collision leaves ...the clippers need a penetrating guard as back up...for the draft...they need to move up by trading their pic and maybe a player (dudley) and get the croatian center Jusuf.

It's funny that all that is pretty inaccurate. He doesn't push the ball on the break as much as those guys, but the offense is SOOOOOOO much more fluid with Paul on the court, I'm not really sure how anyone watches our games and comes to the conclusion that the offense is more fluid with Bledsoe or Collison. The bench last season was actually bad on offense, but they were excellent on defense as a unit. They played iso ball and made a lot of mistakes.

We didn't lead the league in PPG and Ortg because Paul was rolling the ball and then waiting till late in the clock to make a play, or because we had a stagnant offense. If our offense is stagnant, then it just speaks poorly of most of the other teams in the league.

JQuick32 wrote:
*Stuff about Randolph*
I'm assuming he means because Randolph got suspended for game 7 which might have cost his team, but Randolph isn't in the same caliber of player as CP anyways, so who cares.

BaadMaster
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You are correct. The refs would have made sure of it.

These were two very evenly matched teams. Giving one team a 4 - 10 point advantage for EVERY game in the series, home and away, that team wins. It doesn't matter whether the win is by perceived choking, heroic plays or phantom calls, or THE MAN ON THE MOON, the additional points -- like the house edge in a casino -- grinds you to dust.

To re-explain, for those of you who do not gamble: a point in the first quarter is exactly the same as a point in the fourth quarter. The refs gave OKC four early extra points by calling two quick phantom fouls on DJ in the first half. Thus we lost the ball two extra times and he also sat DJ for extra minutes -- all in the first half. (I don't recall, but there were other first quarter gifts to OKC.) Thus the effects, the four point gifts, of ref dishonesty in the first half seemingly has no effect -- until you are up four points with 1:30 left instead of being eight points up with 1:30 left. Big difference. Big edge -- courtesy of the refs. But it is not noticed except by those -- including the refs -- who know that FOUR POINTS LOST IN THE FIRST QUARTER ARE CRITICAL IN THE LAST TWO MINUTES.

Most fans don't notice. But the refs know this. They know fans will turn on their own team for fear of looking like excuse makers. They know that fans won't even support their own coach when he observes -- rightly so -- that the Clippers were robbed. And the fans would sooner blame Chris Paul than some corrupt official who stole the game -- even after video replay.

As I said in another trail, IT ISN'T AN EXCUSE WHEN IT IS THE TRUTH.

Once the fix was in, nothing can undo it. And the refs know that too.

dom1
Clipper 6th Man
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I meaning ZBO having a mental breakdown in game 6 cost them game 7 with his suspension. It was a mental error. It he would of been there for game 7 for his team memphis had a great chance of defeating OKC. Without ZBO they had no chance. although ZBO isn't the same quality of player as CP3 he is the 1st or 2nd best player for his team and not keeping his cool to me is choking under pressure when your team needs you the most. Point is mistakes happen and we need to get over it and look forward to next season

laboy
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paul is good in a full court game,(regular season)

playoff time ...game is pretty much half court game...

that's where he is not as good..

clippers had 3 point shooters this year..

clippers had an advantage over okay team ( oklahoma) with blake and dj..

dj did not get many looks????

they needed to pound the ball inside..

when chewbaka got hurt and left the game...clips should have capitalized on that..

that is the point guards job to focus the offense there..

doc rivers can only coach..the players need to execute.

paul was the quarterback of the team..

it is his fault that they did not..

simple as that..

pick and roll...dunks...easy plays...

if he is the best point guard...well they should have beaten okay team..

I think this shows that he is overrated and over paid...

clips need to draft a point guard this year and maybe when paul's contract is up ...the new guy can take over and get that championship for us..

because it is not about the regular season..it is about the playoffs...

just ask carl malone and john stockton...how many championships did they win?

fullcourt
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I blame Chris but I don't doubt he's one of the best players in the world either. What bothers me is that people don't seem to understand that opportunities to advance to conference finals just don't present themselves every year and that first trip is the most important. Its not as easy to get over that hump as people try and make it seem.

I understand people talking about all the other stuff that went on to prevent us from advancing but even still CP was in a position to win the game DESPITE of it all and failed to seize his moment. These sorts of chances just don't come around that often. Everything despite the adversity fell into place and the opportunity was lost. It will be very interesting to see how CP responds to this over next season and into the playoffs.

laboy
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he choked,

he looked like a schoolgirl at her first prom...

what was he thinking????

$$$$$?

or maybe he was thinking of brother cliff?

or maybe he was dreaming that he would star in a (kia) commercial with his friend blake?

or a shoe deal..???

or ????? what?

clearly he was not thinking about calling a time out or dribbling the ball to half court.

UKClipper
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I just wonder if CP3 is the right option for this team. We don't have a big who can reliably knock down the midrange shot (although Blake improved massively in this area). Both of them operate in the paint, which is where Chris wants to go because he is not a great outside shooter, which means it is very crowded and more difficult to get a good shot. I also thought with the addition of Doc we'd see less ISO Chris at the end of games but it seems he is determined to keep it and be the hero.

Guys I think would work better for us.

Steph Curry

Damian Lillard

Kyrie Irving

laboy
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Kyrie Irwing would be nice..

we can trade Paul for possibly a big and a wing and a first round pick???

UKClipper
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I'd love for us to trade CP3 for Kyrie and the number one pick which we take Wiggins and gives us a great prospect to play the 3 and I think Kyrie would elevate his play under Doc and with the supporting cast we have.

ClipperKyle32
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http://instagram.com/p/oFN2GmsJDk/ this made me laugh. In All Seriousness! STOP TRYING TO TRADE CHRIS PAUL! Why would you trade Chris Paul for Kyrie Irving ( NEVER BEEN IN PLAYOFFS ). If you were even proposing a trade....

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UKClipper
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Would you consider trading Chris Paul and JJ for Curry and Thompson (GS) or Chris for Kyrie Irving and the No.1 overall pick?

ClipperKyle32
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NO! JJ for Klay maybe. Chris > Curry. Curry turns it over way too much. Chris has rare bad turnover games. Kyrie isn't proven yet. Never been i. Playoffs

BaadMaster
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Some of yous are like Lakers fans. One stolen playoff series and it is THE END. Trade 'em all.

Blake and Chris are your ticket into the Finals. If you can't see it, you are blind.

laboy
Clipper 6th Man
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if you choke in the playoffs...what use is he to us????

we can trade him for 3 players..we have blake and dj and reddick ...only need a sf and a pg..

look at golden state,they would have beaten us with bogut in the game...

we would have been out in the first round..

doc will improve on the team defense and we won't be dependent on paul for offense,

and with doc as coach and players wanting to come here now....

and we cannot build around them when they make around 36 mil combined...plus what dj will want next summer...maybe 13 mil..

you do not have enough money for any other players..get rid of his 18 or so million dollar contract...

sign Irwing for 8 mil...then have 10 left for carmelo... Smile

what do you guys think??

CapsNClips
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In what world does Irving take an $8mil a year contract and Melo a $10mil a year contract???? You're delusional.

kjavis
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chris is trade-able for the right pieces, how many world champ teams needed superstar PG on their teams? just ask chalmers and fisher. we need an athletic wing scorer that averages 23-25ppg without breaking a sweat and is near unguardable when chooses to take over a game

UKClipper
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Completely agree. I'd love a great SF!

JQuick32
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CP3 is the ticket to a second round exit at best until proven otherwise.

ClipperKyle32
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CP3 is the ticket to a second round exit at best until proven otherwise.
Question: would we have made the second round with a PG like George Hill or Mario Chalmers? Chris guarded Steph Curry.....

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fullcourt
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We have 56 million of a 70 ish mil cap number invested into DJ,CP,JJ,BG and yet we have to get more people to support them when we have yet to see any of them have dominate throughout a playoff run. The fact that you think we have untradeable players is crazy talk. That Is 56 million in 4 players and they still need a all star caliber SF to get out of the second? Does anyone else see the problem with that ?

Anyone who watched the display Westbrook and Durant put on last night can easily see what the problem is and while a SF would be nice the fact is that those two simply play at a higher level of play more consistently. Blake and CP had good regular season numbers playing 40+ mpg in that OKC series but outside of CP in the first game neither had another game where it was no one can stop me and you will have to evaluate your entire game plan to stop me types of games and that is what the playoff is about. Your superstars doing superstar things and then you evaluate what you are missing but its hard to truly say what we don't have that could put us over the top when we can't get 7-8 games of high caliber playoff performances out of our superstars

Agent0
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Double

Agent0
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Well there's Lebron and there's Durant, only problem is that we aren't getting them. Harden is inferior to Paul, I'd be hard pressed to find a coach who thinks Carmelo has a greater positive influence on a team or offense than Paul, and that was the third option. 4th option is Paul George and he's not even a better scorer than CP.

People just say it as if there's a plethora of those players around. A guy who "easily" scores 23-25 PPG and is unstoppable when he decides to be (no one is really unstoppable just when they decide, but semantics). Those kind of players are usually the league's best players and if they are that good at scoring are usually closer to 26-27 PPG or higher scorers anyways.

Then again, McGrady was said player, Kobe after Shaq and before 07-08 and getting Gasol was said player, Lebron was that player in Cleveland. There were two past second round appearances by those guys over what was it, 14-15 seasons combined? Both appearances by Lebron, none in the West. Durant was that guy last season without Russell, also didn't work out, maybe, just maybe there is more to it.




For the exercise, let's entertain it, it might be the solution. Who could we realistically trade Paul for, and who could we realistically trade Blake for, not what team can we rip off to give us a complete team for one player.

  • Blake: Carmelo Anthony is probably a guy that he could be traded for, not a fan of it, but for the excercise. We would need a defensive PF most likely, or at least one that shoots from range to allow Carmelo to operate in the post. We would be better served with a defensive type SG than with Redick probably, but let's see. Knicks build around Blake with Phil at he helm, they would obviously love this.

Chris Paul

J.J. Redick

Carmelo Anthony

Glen Davis

DeAndre Jordan

  • Paul: I have no clue who we could trade him for. He's signed long term so there no re-signing issue. James Harden maybe? Houston pairs CP and Howard, we get the dream of some, the wing that can score a lot, though I don't think people were thinking of no defense Soften when they suggested this. CP for Harden + Beverly. We'd still have the desire to upgrade at SF, still want a better backup big man.

Patrick Beverly

James Harden

Matt Barnes

Blake Griffin

DeAndre Jordan

Houston:

Chris Paul

Jordan Hamilton

Chandler Parsons

Terrence Jones

Dwight Howard

  • Actually both trades just look like they benefit the other team and aren't much more than lateral moves for us. All the extra moves to fill out/balance the roster will be moves we can still make right now, so I don't want to add those and make it seem like it's part of the trade of our guys. If were going lateral, I'd rather stick to consistency.

Let's say we go wild and do both:

Patrick Beverly

James Harden

Carmelo Anthony

Glen Davis

DeAndre Jordan

  • We'd have all the wing scoring we could imagine. Wing defense would obviously be weak, we'd have to get a more defensive PF, get some defensive wings off the bench, etc. Not sure how were much different from Houston outside of the coach and that our other scoring is at SF, not C.

  • Maybe some people would suggest Blake for Love, and that could certainly be one that the Wolves would like, and Love would re-sign here. That's not really changing our composition, it's only better if Love is then a better player than Blake. Maybe some sort of Paul for Rondo + Green kind of deal, though I'm not sure how we are getting better, that's the trade you make when a star is disgruntled and wants to leave.

Rajon Rondo

J.J. Redick

Jeff Green

Blake Grifin

DeAndre Jordan

  • looks like a 50 win team, not sure where you're better than a team like Golden State or the upper echelon though.

Someone said Paul for Lowry + DeRozan, maybe that's an option.

Kyle Lowry

DeMarr DeRozan

Matt Barnes

Blake Griffin

DeAndre Jordan

Now I don't see how that team takes on the Spurs or Thunder and wins. I don't see how that team even gets past Golden State, but there's a hope that is imbedded in changing things and "maybe, we'll see". I'm not sure any of those looks like an improved state for us, anyone have other ideas of who we can actually get that isn't just a lateral let us try a different look type move?

laboy
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blake and chris,like stockton and malone...

have been waiting for a finals since 1988..

want to see it in my lifetime Smile

lets trade for carmelo or love...

keep blake...

everybody else is expendable..

Bingo3
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If Lebron wanted to come play with CP, but we would end up having to give up Blake, I would do it in a heartbeat.

clipperboy24
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The cp for Lowry and derozan trade makes sense. Definitely think that could be a finals team.

The one that makes the most sense is a cp for rondo package. Rondo is a good half court guard as well as can lead the break. He would make Blake the primary option and really help deandre develop more offensively or at least set him up more. Green would be an alright addition probably would be more fair to get the 6th pick also which we could flip for a real SF since green is really a PF.

ClipperKyle32
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So I guess Miami needs to trade LeBron now since he tried to draw the foul and turned it over. Same thing happened to Chris , but No!!!! Everyone wants to trade Chris! You guys....

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clipper*joe
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stone

CP3 isn't LeBron. When CP3 gets a ring, come back with that.

ClipperKyle32
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Do you always feel the need to reply to my comments roll wink Very Happy :D Anyways.... I am just using that as an example. NO One is LeBron James! I am just....

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fullcourt
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Are you seriously trying to equate Chris Pauls heaving the ball from nearly full court to Lebron shooting a three to beat the shot clock and shooting a airball ?

clipper*joe
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No. Do you always feel the need to call out people all the time? In your words, "you seriously need to chill".

clipper*joe
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Exactly. One was making a dumb mistake when the game was won and the other was a guy trying to make a play late in the game when they're down.

Agent0
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Finals team? That is certainly pushing it. Competitive first and second round team, definitely. Anything outside of that will need a lot of the same improvement the current team needs, which sort of brings us back to square one. At the least though some people will be satisfied and can argue about whether it is Blake or DeRozan's team.

Rondo is not a good half court guard actually, Celtics offense was quite below average when his role increased. People keep forgetting that they were a good and competitive team due to their far and away league best defense, especially when KG was on the floor, not because they were doing anything impressive on offense.

You can only be so good as a half court player without good isolation scoring abilities or good shooting ability. That's where Rondo's problem lies. If you look at all the NBA's best PG's, they can score in isolation and/or shoot effectively, and also very good in pick and roll. Rondo has one, very good in pick and roll, but severely lacking in isolation scoring and overall shooting ability despite the great improvement in his mid-range jumper.

I think those are two 50-55 win teams, the a Rondo one more like 48-51. In the East, they could get to ECF, but so could this team. In the West they are first round exits unless you get a good matchup, and we still maintain some of the issues the current team has that needs to be fixed via some moves or trades.

pageC4
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I think both you and Clipperboy24 have alluded to a great comparison. Stockton and Malone were a good pair, but could never get past that hump and be a contender. Another good similarity is Boozer and Williams for the same Jazz just in the early 2000's. Either way we do need some revamping. The hard thing is finding a solution now...this offseason is going to be a challenge: no cap room, no enticing trade bait like Bledsoe, and no high draft pick to change our fortunes.

ClipperKyle32
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HaHaHa! If I call out fans, I call them out in general. I never say names. So if I said something abouts some fans in general only those fans , which they know who they....

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Agent0
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Williams and Boozer aren't anywhere near as good a pairing as Paul and Blake as each was individually inferior and those Jazz teams as this team we have, though we could lean on the hope that a top 2 seed gets upset and we get a 7th or 8th seed team in the second round to get our WCF appearance, lol.

laboy
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blake has gotten better each year,

next year he will be even better..

the clips need another post up player to take the pressure off of blake..

can kevin love play center??

maybe blake can?

they would be the west coast bash brothers and with dj..

the three of them would dominate the paint Smile

they have the 3 point shooters....

they need a big defender...

or they get one in the draft..

someone that can play power forward and they can move griffin to small forward..

with the guys on this roster,i would be able to average 8 assists..

chris is not needed ..at !8 mil...

clipper*joe
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So you agree with me. You do call out fans in general. And you do know that you're offending a portion of members here by what you say? Just because you don't mention names, you think you have a pass? You're wrong.

I also disagree with your webster's definition of Sports fan. It isn't about about who screams the loudest. It isn't about who's the most positive. It isn't about how many redundant, trivial threads one makes. It isn't even how big your pom poms are. A fan is one who sticks with a team no matter how bad they are. A fan is one who stays with a team mired in ineptitude for years/decades, while having the worst owner in sports history. A fan is the guy waiting a decade or more to see his team make the playoffs. That is a true fan. And I'm not talking about the guy that jump in when the getting was good. They have a term for that too. It's called a bandwagon fan. Don't judge people for acting on or wearing their emotions on their sleeves. Chances are, they have been fans of this team longer than you. Just say'n.

ClipperKyle32
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Why would they get offended if they weren't doing what I called fans out for in the first place. And when can you speak for other members. So far only you have expressed an issue....

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jarca
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I mentioned Westbrook and Sefalosha for CP would be a fair trade in the beginning of the season, I got a lot of heat for that. I wonder how that trade sounds now?

JQuick32
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The commonality is that all three teams have invested way too much money and usage into the least important position on the court.

JQuick32
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OKC would laugh and hang up the phone.

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