Chris Paul Performance Discussion (P. 5)

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cleepers
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Five of the top six teams in the western conference have a PG who is their best or 2nd best player, then you have Conley who was a borderline all-star and Ellis who is a combo, but pretty much handles point-duty for Dallas. After that comes the team that STARTED a pair of point-guards (who were their best players) and massively overachieved... so your theory of it being the "least important position" is utter bullshit.

Agent0
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OKC wouldn't have done it, there isn't a big enough gap a the upper echelons of PG's where you trade on with a prett nice sweetener for another. That's like trading Parker + Danny Green for Paul, why do it? Even if you say you improve a bit at PG and game management, you lose your go to perimeter defender, how do you replace that?

We know what it is like to not have that kind of player on your roster, just doesn't make sense.

Agent0
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Maybe their PF's were actually the issue because if they had Duncan instead, might be a different story. None certainly had great defensive PF's, just some food for thought. Also, Utah had Deron on a rookie contract.

I actually don't think their PF was the issue, but those teams had some clear team makeup problems not related to their stars and the Jazz had the unfortunate meting of Jordan.

pageC4
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This is an interesting discussion though. It seems as if the idea of a team winning with a "true" "pass first" point guard is now not the only way. I don't agree with JQuick32 that the PG position is obsolete per se. But more and more I see teams that are going deep and winning chips with different formulas. I think, and I may be wrong, the direction that the NBA seems to be to have a good defense and hot perimeter shooting...both things that we cannot claim we have a solid grasp on.

I look at the Thunder, Miami, and San Antonio and their defense is superb. They also, as a collective unit, shoot better from beyond the arc than us. In contrast we have a very mediocre defense and only Redick as our true 3 point shooter. More and more it looks as if the way we are built puts us at a disadvantage.

jarca
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Then there goes the argument of CP STANS that you can't get equal value for him. Look I got no problem with CP, but he's way overrated by his fans. They like to put him in the category of untouchable like Lebrons. It's easy to get equal value for someone like CP.

namzug
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I wasn't a fan of CP, before he got here. I thought it was a mistake to trade EG for him, but have been proven wrong.

If CP had the physical features of a Livingston, I think he'd be the best player in the NBA by far. The only problem is he doesn't have the physical features and attributes. He's one of the few NBA players that I am taller than. This keeps him out of the echelon which Lebron, KD and hopefully soon Blake are and will be in. He doesn't have out of this world athleticism, and won't wow anybody with his speed. He's fairly quick, but it's not anything out of this world. He's semi-injury prone too, not Bogut injury prone, but still I at least expect him not to play a full season. If you were making your own superstar player on a video game I doubt it would be a 6' point guard.

With all that said I think he is still the best point guard in the NBA, but we need Blake to be the best player on the team. Length bothers him, and our smallish guards and mediocre small forwards make it easy for other teams to throw length at him.

We only have a big 2.5, because as much as I like DJ and his vast improvement it has only been on one side of the ball we still need the other 0.5 to have a legitimate big 3. JJ and Jamal aren't it, and as much as I had hoped Granger would be he's not either.

fullcourt
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I'm sorry but we don't have a big anything if JJ,jamal,Dj,Granger,Big baby,Collison,and barnes aren't enough to get 2 MVP candidates to at least the conference finals well then those "MVP" candidates are not nearly as good as we would like to believe.

We have yet to see our two best players play even or better than with the opposing teams best players over the course of a entire series to even began talking about how they don't have enough. Have Blake and CP been pushed to the limit? have they laid it all on the line and played to the best of their abilities for an entire series and at the end win or lose the difference is the help that they have ?

At this point we are clamoring for some more help for them to play even with Durant and Westbrook not the rest of Thunder. After watching Westbrook and Durant against the Spurs the other night there are very serious valid concerns about Blake and CP's ability to play their best ball against the best players for an entire playoff run. they don't have to be perfect every single game but considering our entire salary structure is built around them they have to operate very close to that for us to get beyond the second round and they have yet to do that

namzug
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I agree with all your points. I would say that in KD's, and WB's favor has been that they have been together with the same staff and the majority of their group a lot longer. CP and Blake have played well together, but I have never thought they have ever really been really consistent they show flashes here and there but not much more. Blake and JJ seemed to play really well together while CP seemed to play really well with DC. There was a lot of times where certain players seemed mismatched on our team.

You are right, as our stars CP and Blake should have been able to take over a few games. I had really high expectations for Blake these playoffs too.

laboy
Clipper 6th Man
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I know what happened to chris paul when he choked...

It was cliff paul....they traded places..

that explains it..

they have been doing this since preschool...

they fooled the teachers and other students..

they fooled the other players..the coaches and even the refs..

but they did not fool me..

because I got a great insurance policy from state farm insurance..

who would have thought...... Smile

ClipperKyle32
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I am kind of jealous of teams like the Spurs , OKC , Golden State, Portland, Dallas. I wish Chris was more aggressive. I wish him and Blake could have 30 point nights... On the....

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laboy
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point guard salaries...

chris paul...21.4

williams...19.7

rose...18.8

westbrook...15.7

parker...12.5

lawson....12

evans....11

rondo....11

curry....11

holliday....10.2

nash....9.3

stuckey...8.5

nelson...8.4

lin....8.3

ellis....8.3

conley...8

hill and teague...8

jennings...8

dragic...7.5

calderon...7.2

wall....6

laboy
Clipper 6th Man
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now if they were paid on how many championships they have?????

who has a championship??/

parker..rondo...anybody else??? on the list???

pageC4
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That's just not who he is anymore. Our best course of action now is to make some changes so we do not rely on Chris. A few additions and maybe he can slide into a role that he seems more comfortable playing, that of facilitator with an occasional offensive contribution. By the time we enter next season I hope we will have added a good small forward that can average 14 PPG and play solid D. That way we need less offense from Chris.

However, if we haven't made changes and Paul is still among one of our top 2 offensive options then we are in trouble.

clipperboy24
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Exactly it's not the superstar pg that wins it. Rondo and Parker both excel at one thing. Ball movement. That's not what we have with CP3 in half court sets

CapsNClips
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Wow! When did Clipper fans become so ungrateful and unintelligent about basketball?

I remember when those traits were purely associated with Laker fans. I really hope this is just a phase because it's making me sick to my stomach knowing our once amazing fan base are turning into spoiled little twats.

clipperboy24
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Seriously are fans not allowed to have an opinion? It's ridiculous for you to say garbage like that, I have been a fan since 97 and always have criticized things I didn't like and praised things I did. That's what fans do. I personally have never liked ball dominant point guards who don't move the ball too quickly. I think they get a lot of stats but don't help the team as a whole win championships, because of the lack of ball movement.

clipperboy24
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And to add, as a moderator you really think you are representing the site well talking like that?

CapsNClips
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Who said your not allowed to have your own opinion? Was it not my OWN opinion that our fans are becoming spoiled? I wasn't directing my comment at you personally, I was directing it towards everybody since the loss to the Thunder who have been constantly criticizing CP for things that he can't do with no factual evidence.

But you did say something that annoyed me, you said CP isn't good at ball movement, yet he lead the league in passes per game with 71.5

I don't undestand why people say things like that as if they will become true if they say it. People associate Tony Parker with ball movement which he is great at, but they do it because his team is also great at it. Chris is a far better passer than Tony has or ever will be.

clipperboy24
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CP3 dominates the ball and eats a lot of the shot clock not really advancing most plays until the 14-10 seconds left in the clock. It's one thing to have the most passes per game because you always are in possession of the ball and play heavy minutes and passing it a lot to get real movement in the offense. Just watch the spurs play and try to tell me Chris Paul promotes even half that ball movement.

You can't just throw a stat out there and think it defines the player, it's all about the picture as a whole.

laboy
Clipper 6th Man
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I don't want the clippers to be like the heat....3 big contracts and the rest are scrubs..

its ok if you win championships that way..it worked for miami..

the clippers don't have 3 superstars... which is someone who can take over a game...get 40 + points in a given night..

we have griffin...who is getting closer to that point...paul...who is close...and 5 or 6 guys who are fun to watch..

speaking for the old time clipper fans...who have stood by the down years...

and I mean down years..

at the sports arena,

where you go to a game and can get a beer and be back in your seat before the time out is over..

yeah!! that is how empty it was back then...

the clips took the jazz to 5 games in the first round..

the team was good...

malone was just better...he was a super star..

now the clips have blake...he is fun to watch..

they need a championship..

the salaries are going up so much,

what do you expect...2 BILLION for the team...

we cannot afford to pay griffin 17 and chris 20 and dj 10....

they are not superstars..

maybe one or 2..

but not three...dj is a center and hard to come by..

so next year we offer 15..mil a year for him..

look at monroe on detroit...will probably get 60 mil for 4 years..

is paul worth 20???

I say get a point guard for 8 or 10 mil..

use the other 10 for a small forward..

how desperate are the clips to win..

well we gave a first round pick to boston for doc rivers (our coach)

CapsNClips
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And for the record I don't even associate players with ball movement, I only did so in this instance to show you why your statement didn't make sense.

But, a player can't actually be good at "ball movement" that's not physically possible. Once Tony Parker or Rondo passes the ball he has no control over what happens next. Parker can't telepathically make Danny Green swing the ball to Boris Diaw and then telepathically make Boris Diaw pass it to Kawhi Leonard.

Ball movement has so little to do with one single player. It's about a set play and teamwork. Saying Gregg Poppavich is good at ball movement makes way more sense than saying Tony Parker is good at ball movement. Blame Doc rivers if you don't like ours.

clipperboy24
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If a player swings it well or passes earlier in the shot clock than it promotes ball movement. And I mean a pass that is productive not the pass to a guy right next to you or the pass to a guy and then pass back without thinking how it affects the spacing that the clippers often do. A PG is supposed to be the floor general so a player can be good at promoting and directing team ball movement which I don't think CP3 has ever shown he does consistently. I am not saying he can't but he really hasn't demonstrated a desire to swing the ball or create a lot of spacing. In a half court setting our offense is very stagnant.

CapsNClips
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I don't know where you are getting this from. Our ball movement this season was incredible and most likely on par with the Spurs. Our team was 3rd in assists. That doesn't happen when your PG hogs the ball for 14 seconds on every possession.

We had the #1 offense in the league. Ball movement was not an issue....it was actually a HUGE strength thanks in part to our superstar floor general.

Bingo3
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Very Happy Saying the same things over and over won't magically make it true. Have you seen how this offence looks without CP3 in the playoffs when two black holes (Jamal and Collison) are on the court. Now THAT'S stagnant offence. There's a reason why CP hardly had a moment to breath throughout the playoffs because our offence sucked ass without him.

clipperboy24
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You are confusing the overall game stats with halfcourt statistics. We are incredibly stagnant in the halfcourt a lot of our assists are in transition.

Did you not watch the playoffs and how much we often struggled to score?

clipperboy24
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Of course the offense is better with Paul versus collison and crawford, lol.

proverbs
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Honestly, I can't believe our fans whine and complain about having the best point guard in the league. So many of the non-Clipper fans I know were talking so much trash about CP3, basically the same thing that I read on these boards. Then I tell them, "I'd much rather have CP3, the best PG in the league, over the sorry a** point guard on your team" -- end of discussion.

ClipperKyle32
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Yea who was named to NBA 1st All-Defensive Team. Chris Paul. Locked down Durant. I can't even believe some of you want him gone and for who. Chris is smart. Westbrook isn't. ....

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Agent0
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Why would you even mention Monta Ellis? Playing styles don't need to be the same to achieve high effectiveness, this is all hyperbole, Paul picks his spots and he gets in the paint more than a Curry and Lillard for example. CP produces very well individually and we had one of the best offenses in the regular season and playoffs, so whatever he's doing is working for offense. Now maybe we should try doing something impressive on defense.

Agent0
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You seem to think this 14-10 second thing is a problem when in reality it is how most of the teams in the NBA play. Also it doesn't really characterize this team, we actually run a lot of quick action,secondary break stuff, quick hits to shooters, etc.

With out starters, about 65-70%+ of our FGA comes in the first 16 seconds of the shot clock, while about 42-45% is within the first 10 seconds of the clock, which is very good. Yes sometimes it takes longer because your first option is cut off. Most teams get the ball across the timeline after an opponent basket with about 17 seconds left. If Paul advances at 17 seconds, waits 3 seconds for all the off-ball action, double down screens for J.J., etc to develop, then there's 14 seconds left. If the first option fails, you got to the second, that's another 1-2 seconds, that's 10-11 seconds left. It's a 24 second shot clock for crying out loud, how fast do you think teams go through their sets?

SA might be the only team in the league with a similarly or more fluid offense than the Clippers, with teams like Portland and Dallas also being fairly good, but our offense even gets rolling quicker than SA, but they don't use a guy off ball like Redick, so they have less waiting on initial set up. In comparison to us, SA's starters are getting about 60-65% of their shots up within the first 16 seconds and 35% in the first 10 seconds.

So if your complaint is that Paul is slowing down the offense, it just doesn't stand up to any facts except for you thinking so, and even what you think is an issue isn't really one. You seem to have this idea that every possession must have offense starting quickly, but that's just not real. Unless your brain is better at tracking than you know, film and reality then your perception is just not matching up with reality. Yes, at times we use clock, but whether it is fast break, secondary break or a quick hitter, our starters get up 40-45% of their FG attempts before the clock hits 14 seconds and 65-70% before it hits 8 seconds.

clipper*joe
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ClipperKyle32 wrote:
Yea who was named to NBA 1st All-Defensive Team. Chris Paul. Locked down Durant. I can't even believe some of you want him gone and for who. Chris is smart. Westbrook isn't.

He also locked down Curry for most of the series with a little help from his friends. I still can't forgive him for his faux pas, but I was really impressed at his defense in the playoffs.

Icecoldclipper
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Can't believe cp got it over Allen or Hibbert still got it after choking after the all star break. The fact David Lee and James Harden got votes show this is all a joke.

ClipperPostman
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You can't just replace cp3 with "A point guard and another player".

We would suck ass and definitely not make it out of the first round.

Leadership isn't easy to come by, and neither are clutch players

Especially PGs that average 20-10 and are floor generals. Anyone even remotely

advocating Cp3 being traded needs to chill out and re-think that foolishness.

The professor has spoken

JQuick32
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So after a lifetime of terrible basketball, not being willing to settle for second round exits (which is all we're getting with CP3) = "ungrateful"?

Speak for yourself, because I didn't sit through the dark ages only for the reward to be becoming Atlanta Hawks West. I don't think it's ungrateful at all to want a real championship contender after the **** this franchise has put us through. A treadmill team that bows out in the first or second round every year isn't even that much better than where we were.

JQuick32
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Double post

laboy
Clipper 6th Man
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the oklahoma guard who guarded paul in game 6 should be on that list...he won the series in 5 seconds..

how is that for defense..

how many points did curry get against the clippers?

how many points would parker get against paul?

these awards are like the garnish they put on the dinner plates at fancy restaurants,

It takes up space so the plate does not look empty....but that is it..

nobody really eats it..

same with there awards..

the only tangible thing is a championship..

like division banners,are just a banner...

titles are what teams stride for..

enjoy your garnish and banner...and your 20 mil and the other money that cliff brings in..

us fans have no championship...#$%^%@#$$...

JQuick32
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Where is this leadership and clutchness come playoff time? You know, the postseason, the part of the year that actually matters? roll

CapsNClips
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No. Being ungrateful is blaming the ONE guy who was willing to come here to help change the culture of the Clippers which was a lifetime of terrible basketball before he showed up.

The ONE guy who made your life better as a Clipper fan is the same guy you constantly bash for not being good enough. I'm sorry Chris isn't as good as KD or LeBron, why don't you just go ask Pat Riley or Sam Presti if we can do a swap? You make it seem like that's what we should do and that it would be so easy.

Out of the Top 10 players in the world, only LeBron has a championship. Nothing is guaranteed in this league so just stop complaining all the time about the guy who is eventually going to be the sole reason we have a championship. If you're too tired of waiting for a championship why don't you just hop on the Heat's bandwagon, lord knows there's plenty of room for fans who are tired of seeing their team lose. You'd fit right in.

HyperFuse
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wow harsh judgment in here, CP is doing a better job then most guards why can't people see that

WinningBasket
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Yeesh, so much CP criticism is uncalled for. He just got selected to another ALL-Defensive First Team. Third straight season, 4 times overall. How many of today's teams can boast something like this for their PG?

fullcourt
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Individual awards at this point are useless without team success. We know we have plenty of guys win the running for league wide awards but the goal is to win a title is it not ?

CP deserves the award he earned it but mean some of you just need to stop it after we saw Westbrook run all over the place for damn near a triple double average in 6 games.

Agent0
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This all sounds great until we realize that at the end of the day 29 teams will have no championship this year 28 teams will not be in the finals and 26 teams will not have made a conference finals. So if we rank the top 10, 15, 20 players in the league at the most we have 1 or 2 top 10 players in the finals this year.

Top 15-20 players and teammates:

Lebron/Wade/Bosh

Durant/Westbrook

Paul/Griffin

Howard/Harden

Carmelo

Love

Aldridge/Lillard

George

Curry

Parker/Duncan

So in the West there are 7 players or player combos that we could call top 15-20 players. Love isn't on a good enough team, take him out, so 6. If everything was equal (and of course it isn't) and the basketball gods dish it out evenly. then each current player / combo would get to the finals once in 6 years from the West and by your 15th year, if your team was at a high level, 55+ win team for 15 straight seasons and the competition was the same that whole time, and everything equal (again it isn't), technically you could have 3 appearances.

Of course this is why you want to take every chance you get, and of course why it hurt that we lost the way we did, though I don't know if we beat OKC on the road in game 7 anyways, but if we do, I'd put us 40/60 vs SA. So not like we would have been destined to get there, but still, the chance is nice.

With that said, just kind of sit back and understand that. Our core has been together for 3 seasons, 2 as a team that could even challenge for more than making the second round (we had no chance in 11-12 against SA, let's be real here, I'm assuming we all knew that?), but then last season with the Blake injury killing that chance as much as our defense that collapsed later in the season after a strong start. So altogether in terms of being a team that can challenge for more than second round we're really just 0-1. All things equal, and again they aren't, some teams are better than others for different reasons, but all equal, if were at a high level for 5 more seasons, we should be at maybe a 20-25% chance of making the finals, so 1 appearance.

So a reasonable expectation over the next 4 seasons with a high level team would be 1 finals appearance unless we separate ourselves somehow and become that dominant team (we aren't getting a Lebron type guy so I'd don't know how outside of elite defense or Blake becoming that guy. If we say that SA, OKC still stay in the top 3, and we assume one of Houston or GS or even Memphis stays as a 4th challenger, maybe we even get two of those teams challenging well, then even conference finals, 1 appearance over the next 4 seasons would be reasonable, 2 would be great.

Every time we make the finals it will also mean that 10 top 10-15 type players in the West did NOT make the finals, and every time we make a conference finals, at least 8 of those similar players didn't make it. Doesn't mean they all suck and are failures, you just can't all win. We're just not likely to be on the happier side of that line every single year or even most years, and the quicker we understand that reality, the better. I don't think some of us are used to being a good team yet based on what I read, some people seem to think you become a good team and max there's a one year window or something.

Expect a lot, hope for a lot but understand the reality of the situation, the more reasonable we can be and we can stop the "I want it now" attitude, the better we'll be able to see the big picture and appreciate the good we are getting from our guys.

Western Finalists (last 10 years):

13-14: San Antonio 62-20, 7th Ortg, 3rd Drtg

12-13: San Antonio 58-24, 7th Ortg, 3rd Drtg

11-12: Oklahoma 47-19 (59 wins in 82 game winning percentage), 2nd Ortg, 11th Drtg

10-11: Dallas 57-25, 8th Ortg, 8th Drtg

09-10: Los Angeles 57-25, 11th Ortg, 4th Drtg

08-09: Los Angeles 65-17, 3rd Ortg, 6th Drtg

07-08: Los Angeles 57-25, 3rd Ortg, 5th Drtg

06-07: San Antonio 58-24, 5th Ortg, 2nd Drtg

05-06: Dallas 60-22, 1st Ortg, 11th Drtg

04-05: San Antonio 59-23, 8th Ortg, 1st Drtg

Alright, so it seems like were at the cusp of the level of the kind of team that comes out of the West, but we've had one crack at it being at that level. If you aren't that dominant team, that is the one with Duncan and Pop or Kobe and Phil as well as very good teammates and for SA top 3 (elite) defense every time they've made the finals, there's been like a 10% chance if you win 57+ games at least to come out of the West over the last 10 seasons. Even the Lakers were in the top 6 defensively all three years during the seasons.

It actually is kind of sad, you're either that top team or you're scraping at every chance. We've gotten to that 57 win type team level with this core, so unless were getting our Kobe/Phil + other stuff or Duncan/Pop + star guards and two way long wings, our actual best chances will be to keep re-tooling around this current core and trying again and again, similar to Dallas.

Dallas has tried for years since 2000-2001 and with at least 3-4 different surrounding players around Dirk:

53 wins, 2nd round

57 wins, 2nd round

60 wins, WCF

52 wins, 1st round

58 wins, 2nd round

60 wins, Finals

67 wins, 1st round

51 wins, 1st round

50 wins, 2nd round

55 wins, 1st round

57 wins, Champions

So first 6 years of trying they had one WCF and one finals, and in 11 seasons with good talent, they got past the second round 3 times. The last three seasons don't count. CP for example has been on 3 total teams actually capable of getting past the second round, 56 win Hornets, last season and this season. Last season's Blake injury killed it maybe more so than our porous defense. Went to 7 vs a better SA, and this year was what it was. Blake has been in two teams, again last season we know, and same with Paul for this year.

That's really not bad at all, you don't advance just because you really want to because in your conference at least 10 other stars also really want to. If we stay at a high level, we can expect that at some point in the next 2-3 years, SA get out of the top 3, and Paul is only about 30 and Blake in his prime, as long as we keep a good core, we can be the favorite team to come out depending on what OKC does and of course how we build the roster. Of course there's also up and coming teams, but they'll wait their turn.

We could have a good 3-4 year span while Paul is 30, 31, 32, 33 where we have no high level SA team and no other team filling that role consistently. Paul's contract expires at 32 years old. At 33 we won't pay him $20+ million, so if we bring him back for cheaper for 33/34 years old ($8-10M), use the extra money for another high level player, something like one of the guys who is going to be a star type at that time from these current drafts/players or a guy who is a star now and still hasn't won, for example, if Durant still hasn't won. We have a span of about the next 6 years where we should be a high 50's+ win team as long as we build well. As long as Paul doesn't suffer any major injury, his game isn't athleticism based, so his effectiveness won't really change much.

JQuick32
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Kobrick has been named to numerous all-defensive first teams. It's not a very meaningful award.

What IS meaningful is playoff success and CP3 has none of that.

JQuick32
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CapsNClips wrote:
No. Being ungrateful is blaming the ONE guy who was willing to come here to help change the culture of the Clippers which was a lifetime of terrible basketball before he showed up.

Bullshit. CP3 didn't change the culture, Blake did. CP3 just wanted LA and would have been just as happy as a Laker. How soon we forget how he threw the franchise under the bus to the media repeatedly while the front office was bending over backwards trying to re-sign this loser last summer. He clearly isn't loyal to the Clippers, just his paycheck, so why exactly does he deserve undying loyalty from the fans? It's not like he's ever won anything of note to deserve this unquestioned loyalty.

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Nothing is guaranteed in this league so just stop complaining all the time about the guy who is eventually going to be the sole reason we have a championship.

I don't complain all the time about Blake.

CapsNClips
CTB MVP X1
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"Never argue with JQuick, he will drag you down to his level and then beat you with experience" - Mark Twain

cleepers
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*Drops microphone to rapturous applause.

laboy
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 156
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the miami heat trio...get about 19 mil each..

they each took less so they could win a championship

san antonio trio also took less money so they could stay together..

paul says he wants a championship..but is not taking less money..

20 mil this year..22 next 24 after..

how can we win a championship ..we cannot even get to the western conference finals..

someone mentions dallas...have you been to dallas...who could live there???

san antonio...??? oklahoma???

los angeles is the city that most players like toy live in.....

look at love...he is miserable in minnesota..

he would love to play in la and probably take a pay cut to get here..

ship paul out to cleveland...get a point guard and a sf..

with griffin and dj and the other guys we should have a better chance of winning..

paul choked...he can't handle the pressure of the big playoff games..

and he is not the best point guard in the league...

the clippers don't need a true point guard..

they have griffin who is a great passer, jj who is a great passer...

we need a good defender...someone who is not making 20 mil..

he is not worthy of that money ...sorry!!!

we can have to very good players for his salary..

or lebran james!!!! a winner!!!

ClipperKyle32
CTB MVP X1
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Rings Are Over Valued. Yes! I want one , but if Chris never gets one it would kinda suck. Just Look Norris Cole has already got 2 and looks to get 3 this year. Just....

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JQuick32
Posts: 3385
votes: 13

That's a disingenuous argument, because Norris Cole isn't touted as a superstar or expected to be the first option. CP3 is, and his constant second-round chokes are not a good look as a result.

JQuick32
Posts: 3385
votes: 13

That's one of the things that pisses me off the most about CP3. His public image is of a humble, nice guy, but he is in reality extremely selfish. Last summer, he ran this organization's name through the mud to the media, threatened to go to Houston, Dallas, or Atlanta, and ended up not taking one red cent less than the max despite seeing other superstars taking pay cuts and winning. Really makes me question how much he actually cares about winning a title.

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