Chris Paul Performance Discussion (P. 6)

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Agent0
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 5048
votes: 49

Losing and choking are not the same thing. Someone always has to lose, so just because you keep saying CP choked doesn't make it reality.

Yes, he's lost in the second round 3 times, that's life, teams win series backed up by players, but players don't win on their own.

JQuick32
Posts: 3385
votes: 13

He choked the two biggest games of his career away almost single-handedly. Period, end of story.

CapsNClips
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4202

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votes: 50

JQuick32 wrote:
He choked the two biggest games of his career away almost single-handedly. Period, end of story.

zaneil3715
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 32
votes: 2

ok so trade him now? i think continuity is the solution.

worm
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1235
votes: 3


Repped High Quality Post

Can we just trade the fan who hates CP3 so much?

FightOnRon
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4879
Location: The Darkside
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votes: 39

With a package for the Blake haters too?

zaneil3715
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 32
votes: 2

yup.after we trade cp3 if blake chokes in the playoffs next year then we are going to trade him. what a logic.superstars choke in some way.what we need is more playing time for our core under the new system of rivers.durant westy ibaka etc have been together for years already under scott brooks. they even choked every time.the team needs continuity from dj blake and cp3. add a big(length rebounding defense) backup pg and a reliable 3D wing.Then gain experience and develop chemistry especially on defense and the team will be ready for the playoffs next year.

JohnnyBallgame
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 1
votes: 0

I think everyone in the hoops world agrees that CP3 is the best point guard in the league. He does just about everything and his team wins. But I didn't realize how much better he was then the other PG's around the league. Numbers wise, it's not even really close. Chris Paul is head and shoulders, according to The PG Index, better and more efficient then even his closest competition. I can't post the link but The PG Index on StraightHoops lays it all out, and it's startling. Good read, and good for CP3. At least it is evident to everyone now.

dom1
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 154
votes: 2

I agree. He is the best PG by far and to me still a top 5 player in the league. Look we all know he played bad down the stretch of game 5 but every superstar has had choke moments.. Magic against Boston in 84 let the shot clock run out and on the next play turned the ball over. Even the GOAT Jordan choked against Orlando in 95 letting Nick Anderson creep behind him and steal the ball and then turned the ball over trying to throw a bullet pass to a cutting scottie pippen. Give CP3 some slack. If the GOAT can make mistakes so can anyone else. Here is the link to the article JohnnyBallgame was speaking of.

http://straighthoops.com/the_pg_index_revised.html

bk201
Clipper Starter
Posts: 260
votes: 0

Even until now I still had nightmares from game 5, it even affected my ability to post a reply on this site...T_T

clipfan63
Clipper Rookie
Posts: 67
votes: 0

Have to agree about that game 5,Chris did make some mistakes but without Durant's mother's buddy(Tony Brothers) and his ridiculous calls we win that game despite Chris Paul's mistakes.It's no coincidence that the Thunder had won the previous 11 consecutive games in which he was the ref.You have to admit the NBA sure did a great job covering up that pre game hug Brothers gave Durant's mother,only saw it mentioned twice in brief write ups.Pretty shocking for an event that even now should warrant closer investigation.

SteveBaller
Clipper Starter
Posts: 458
votes: 6

I totally agree. Why any Clipper fans would focus on CP3's mistakes while glossing over the mountain of evidence that the game was rigged is beyond me. If it'd been officiated fairly, we'd have won. Instead of seeing Westbrook's incredibly lucky steal as being Chris Paul's fault, it'd be seen as just an incredibly lucky steal (which it was since 99% of the time a foul is drawn on a reach in like that). Clipper fans shouldn't forget about the video proof that Tony Brothers had LIED immediately after the game (in writing) about the replays he and his crew had watched. As caught on camera, he had viewed ALL of the same camera angles as the fans in the stands. If that's not incriminating and worthy of launching an investigation, I don't know what is. There were audible groans from the OKC home crowd when the slow motion replays were shown of the ball going out of bounds off of Reggie Jackson's right hand. They thought they had just lost the game. Not if Tony Brothers could help it.

RG
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 27
votes: 0

Can the Clippers actually do something about Brothers not officiating our Games? It wouldn't be too far fetched to believe we made private inquiries about the matter.

pageC4
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4789

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votes: 24

The Clippers had the best offensive efficiency, yet the 7th best efficiency on defense in the regualar season. There was a huge discrepancy in our roster being filled with offensive minded guys like Redick, Crawford, Dudley, Griffin, etc. Among our crew the only two defensive guys were Paul and Jordan. We got beat by a team that was higher in the standings than us and quite frankly has better rounded players than we do. In the end you don't get far by loading up on offense like we did, yet you can win it all with two way players like San Antonio did.

Even after game 5 Doc said "now we made our own mistakes we did enough to lose the games. We stopped playing with 3 minutes left. we made a comedy of errorrs"

We need to own up to those mistakes that Doc mentioned. We lost that game and series. its on us. If you want to win the game don't make errors, don't wind the clock down, always attack.

fullcourt
Clipper Starter
Posts: 347
votes: 5

We need to own up to those mistakes that Doc mentioned. We lost that game and series. its on us. If you want to win the game don't make errors, don't wind the clock down, always attack.

Having offensive minded players had nothing to do with it. We beat the higher seeded Thunder on their floor once and then blew the opportunity to snatch another one. The loss had nothing to do with who we didn't have or having too much of something we simply failed to take advantage of a opportunity that was presented to us ,

If CP doesn't have a brain freeze we beat them 2 times in a row and take a 3-2 series lead and we are coming home for the chance clinch. That Is EXACTLY what you want as the team without home court we simply failed to execute. Now do I expect that to happen to CP all the time? Heck No but it is what it is.

SA did not win because they had some plethora of two way players they won because they have over a decade of continuity. They are not some baseline in which other teams should foolishly try and emulate. If we win it will be because we played he best the Clippers can play not the best of the way SA plays. We simply don't have the resume for that NO ONE DOES.It reminds me of the teams of the 90's that tries to get a point forward and elite SG because of the Bulls but the but it never worked. The rockets won two titles building a team that excelled playing the type of basketball that Hakeem was the best at not trying to be the Bulls. When the mavs won they did it not trying to match the Fakers or SA but by building the best team they could around Dirk and then getting Dirk into position where his play vs other superstars could be the difference.

We did that. We put CP in a position that closing out a game 5 sets up a closeout game on our home floor and a chance at a conference finals appearance. He BLEW IT what we have to have faith in is that we can get him back there again and he can seize the opportunity and I believe he can so while I certainly hold him accountable for that moment I believe he will get another opportunity.

Bingo3
Clipper Starter
Posts: 668

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votes: 1

Can't we just put this in the past? CP made a mistake, he acknowledged it, let's move on.

cleepers
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9233

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votes: 120

Careful... saying: "I don't want 'brothers' at my games" sounds a lot like somebody else we know! Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_08

But it would be truly hilarious to see Ballmer make that very statement (in relation to Tony the cheat) after all that transpired this summer.

SteveBaller
Clipper Starter
Posts: 458
votes: 6

The issue I have is with Clipper fans glossing over the fact that we got "robbed" by the refs and instead falsely putting all the blame on CP. Just watch the video of Doc posted above. Calling out Chris for doing the exact same thing he's done literally hundreds of times before (and never had it stolen btw) after Westbrook got an extremely lucky steal makes zero sense. If Doc and the staff didn't want CP to try drawing the 3pt shooting foul they could have told him after any of the other times he's pulled that move. Then Westbrook chucks a ridiculous 3 and draws the foul- but that was our ball anyway by the rulebook. The last play of the game was where Reggie Jackson ripped CP's elbow right as it looked like he was making a pass to Blake for the dunk. No whistle. Doc didn't gloss over the role the refs played in game 5 and he was fined for it. The video of Doc posted above states the situation exactly as I see it: Our TEAM certainly could have played better (remember Jamal's missed layup with less then a minute left? Big Baby failing to foul Durant before he shot the 3?) but we did enough to win that game if it hadn't been for the bad officiating. That's what Doc said very loudly and I couldn't agree more. That was indeed a "series defining call."

ohMEohMy!
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 3730

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votes: 32

If you want to see Chris Paul doing point god things at Jamal's pro am, click below..

http://ballislife.com/jamal-crawford-got-married-then-played-an-epic-m idnight-pick-up-game-with-chris-paul-other-pros-seattle-pro-am/

Agent0
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 5048
votes: 49

Most of the post is true, but I think too much credit is being given to continuity in itself. It is more than that. Stubborn continuity does the opposite thing, you have to know when to change and when to stay and that's not easy, and sometimes small changes are made. A team needs to assess itself critically every year. This Clipper team can't say "well last seasons team was good enough to beat OKC, so we're fine". Could they have beat SA? Miami? How would they have fared vs Memphis? So in analyzing the team one has to be asking those questions and examining if the team as designed gives itself the best chances vs all those opponents. That's why we got Hawes. Does he really help much vs OKC? Maybe, but against teams like SA and Memphis, he can be critical in opening up space on offense without compromising defense. Also we have to consider that NBA players due to injury, age, etc aren't static in ability and production so that comes into play too. If we look historically, the highest chance of winning is usually a team with a top 5 offense and defense. Again, usually, not always, but exceptions are what they are, certainly not the rule.

So however you can accomplish offense and defense at it's best, do it, but certainly don't try and just copy having an exact type of player, but "copying" trying to have a lot of players that can play both offense and defense well is just practical knowledge, no one team or coach or GM figured that it makes sense to do that, so it's okay.

SA won partly due continuity in coaching and their best guys, still they made changes to what we would consider key personnel, to the system that had seemingly looked successful enough to not end tweaks. Went from a Duncan / post oriented offense to a very pick and roll oriented spread offense with more drive and dish and 3PT shooting. Then Pop saw that athletic teams were able to contain them because they weren't diverse enough, so they looked to add more shot creators and have the similar spread offense but with more cutting and off ball action and an aim at having multiple ball handlers and creators on the floor.

Defensively, Bonner's minutes were cut even though he was really good for offense, Blair was let go because he posed some issues for them matching up on defense. Continuity in coaching and your main guys is good, but you also have to be cognizant on when and where to make changes, and that's why team building is not easy. It's hard to know when to change and if disrupting the status quo will bring the desired result. Sometimes trading George Hill, the coach favorite for a better fit in Leonard who has more size and should help your team more works out like it did for SA and other times you take the chance and it is a lateral move or doesn't work. Sometimes trading a guy who doesn't seem as critical to the casual observer has a bigger effect, other times trading away a guy who seemed critical (Rudy Gay) ends up being a positive. Of course the problem is that fans judge on basic results, so when it doesn't work it's a bad decision, though really it might not have been.

Playing both ends at the highest level does nothing but increase your chances, so certainly if you see an opportunity to maintain general continuity but improve your team on one end without sacrificing much on another, you do it. A team like Chicago for example should be willing to trade a Taj Gibson for a high level offensive player.

Continuity helps, two way players help, a a balanced roster helps, but really the players on your roster need to compliment each other, and nice coaching helps and you need some luck and certainly having one / some of the leagues best players helps. You need guys that can cover each other and be effective as a unit despite the flaws and individual might possess. After that the players just have to play and the coach has to coach.

pageC4
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4789

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votes: 24

Fullcourt, we did beat OKC at their home in the first game. But the loss of this series exactly has to do with the composition of this team. We have had a talented team with the core of Blake, Chris, and DJ for three years now albeit with different cast each time around. Continuity isn't the culprit. In fact if continuity was the case why do some teams in their first year together win it, such as the Boston Three Party with Garnet, Pierce, and Allen?

Our loss of that series had a lot to do with some mistakes made by Paul, but the rest of the team let leads slip away from them hence my pointing out a need for better defense. I simply believe that this team had some holes and continues to. I think until we solve these deficiencies we will continue to get the same results. There's a reason why teams like Golden State and oursleves don't fare well in the playoffs and that has to do with not being well rounded. I think the Clippers resemble those Steve Nash Phoenix teams of a few years ago. Good, fast, exciting teams that get exposed in the playoffs.

fullcourt
Clipper Starter
Posts: 347
votes: 5

Boston won in year one with 3 HOF players and one of the best defensive bigs of all time anchoring the defense.

CP made a few mistakes but that is really all apart of the growing process as a team this isn't fantasy basketball every team has holes and the teams that win don't win because they don't have them. They win because they find a way to seize opportunities as they present themselves. The Spurs blew opportunities against the Heat in 2012 and spent the entire 2013 season motivated to get a rematch with them win which they learned from the mistakes made previously and took advantage of every opportunity to get that rematch and win.

How do we resemble the Suns who were never even a top 15 defensive teams while nash was there? We are a top ten defensive team and we didn't get exposed. Our core group Dj,Blake,Matt,Jamal,CP have played 19 playoff games together. KD and last years Thunder core were all over 60 games together , SA and that big 3 has over a 100 games together , Lebron and that core in Miami had over 70 games together .

We are playoff babies not individually but as a unit and when you factor in a new coach and the Sterling scandal how did we get exposed? We always want to keep improving and growing and adapting but the team as currently constructed is good enough to win .The question now is are we mature enough as a playoff group now to seize it? I think we will be and second year in Docs system will help tremendously .

RG
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 27
votes: 0

Lol didn't even make the connection, good stuff though, it's so good to joke about it now since Sterling got the boot

david
Site Admin
Posts: 8885
votes: 43

That was sick- he hit some long range triples as well. Dejounte Murray looked impressive also- likely a top 5 pick in the future.

pageC4
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4789

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votes: 24

We resemble the Suns in that we are a fast paced team with a great offense but a defense that has many weaknesses. Our defense isn't terrible, but it's just not good enough to beat elite teams like SA, OKC, Miami (last year), or Indiana. Also we did get exposed because we lost. The series against OKC was lost in large part because of bad defense, something that can be remedied. Also, we are not "playoff babies" DJ, CP, and BG are in their third year together, and Chris especially has been in the playoffs numerous times before he joined this squad. The team as currently constructed is not good enough to win, or else it would have happened. We didn't even reach the western conference finals, hell we didn't even take OKC to seven games. Having Doc another year and these players under him will help, but this was a topic that Agent Zero and I once debated before the season began. I felt that with the caliber of players we acquired Doc could get these guys to play defense, Agent argued otherwise (that a coach could only do so much). In the end Agent Zero was right sometimes a coach can't change a squad all that dramatically. Say for instance Rudy Gay, if we had him on this team could Doc help his defense, possibly. Would it be good enough to vault us over into contention, probably not.

I think coming to terms that this squad is missing pieces is a good idea because you have solutions to this problem, which is to acquire players that provide what you need. In this case defense. If we take your view which is that time alone (continuity) will solve this problem then I don't know what to tell you. I would rather identify problems and address them so this team can advance. And this is where we disagree you view our loss in the playoffs as a factor of inexperience I view it as a deficiency on the defensive end.

laboy
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 166
votes: 0

players cannot control the refs..

they can only control themselves..

live and learn...I hope..

RG
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 27
votes: 0

I actually think your both right, need to fix problems and have continuity. If doc left this year we would be starting with a new system again. Filling up our problems is key also but apart from the SF spot I think we covered them sufficiently

vitamink
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 25
votes: 0

Some can be smart enough to manipulate refs.. By behaviors or talks..

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