Chris Paul Performance Discussion (P. 2)

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clipper*joe
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Nice article and all but it just points to his personal accolades and how we shouldn't judge him based on one game. basically amounts to:

fullcourt
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LOL at the people blaming jamal for this series when the facts are that jamal for all of his flaws Jamal helped CP to a 7 pt lead with 3 minutes left ON THE ROAD and then CP squandered his opportunity to have a clinching game on his home floor.

That's not Jamal or the lack of a big or more scoring that is quite simply a superstar failing to deliver when it was time to seize his moment. Ask Barkley,Malone,Stockton,Ewing,Payton,Kemp,Reggie, about seizing the moment and how even the tiniest mistake can cost you.

Going forward its tough to say what to do because some teams can jump right to the top and other teams have to take their lumps but ultimately before we delve deep into role player tweaks you've got consistently get superstar type performances from your superstars and until we get to that point its really tough to even imagine even real impactful changes that could be made.

=Om@R=
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The comments that people are leaving on there are so naive and vague

JQuick32
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SamMays wrote:
It's not his job to score 20 points a game.

Then he's not a superstar or a #1 option.

Quote:
Look at teams that have won championships and the talent they have had

....and very few of them have had ball-dominant "pure point guards."

ClippersDA
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In this day and age you need a great wing player to win it seems. I said a while ago I thought the most important position in today's nba was small forward.

CapsNClips
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And I'm sure when Michael Jordan was winning his rings everyone thought SG was the most important position. Or after that when Shaq was dominating the Center position became a hot commodity.

No surprise that everyone thinks the SF position is important now that LeBron is going for his 3rd ring and KD just won MVP.

jarca
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A lot of people like to play the hypothetical game with CP like if he has so,and so on his team he would have won a ring. But the fact is he's not the most consistent "superstar." Inconsistentcy can cost you'd early in the playoff like Memphis game 3 last year, and CP's mental lapses in game 5

toohipcliptoslip
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Some wise one mentioned that we should look at this DISPASSIONATELY. We must consider all possibilities and not get your chonoes stuck in your as* crack when someone pushes an emotional button. Should we fire Doc? I know there are those of you will scream like a chicken on fire but it's called BUSINESS. If you haven't dispassionately considered that alternative you are doing your team a disservice. I don't think we should but I've considered the possibility objectively and said NO. Has anyone else? I don't care if he has rings on his fingers and toes if doesn't fit he's history tomorrow.

A constructive criticism says "An undesirable result happened because of your actions. Let's find out why and fix it even if it means getting rid of you. Nothing personal, it's for the good of the team"

Blame --- "You idiot you f*cked up every thing and you're an incompetent heap of horse hocky" People on this post confuse them. Get rid of your knee jerk emotional reaction. Should we trade him? The answer is yes in a heartbeat if it keeps us from getting a ring I don't care how good he. It may not be a bad idea but many of you will now get angry at this statement. If you have a multimillion dollar business you won't keep a CEO because you like him. He produces or he goes. period

Will Rondo be better than CP. Consider that dispassionately. Sometimes great players don't fit on great teams. Square peg, round hole. LeBron and CP3 or Nash and Kobe?

No PMS please Very Happy

ClippersDA
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Paul George, kawhi Leonard, melo - these are all difference makers at that position. If the best players in the league are at that position, you need to have someone that can at least measure up a little. Matt barnes is older and a journeyman. Not a starting caliber 3 in a league of amazing ones. How the spurs managed to snag kawhi Leonard is beyond me

CapsNClips
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Or we can wait a year or two for when Blake Griffin is the best player in the world and other PF's like LaMarcus, Davis, Cousins, Love, Favors, Randle...etc are becoming All-stars at the PF spot and every other team in the league try's to copy them by getting a PF, but we already have the best one and we win multiple Championships with our own strategy....not Miami's.

Let's be trend setters, not followers. Sound good?

fullcourt
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No when Jordan was winning rings no one thought SG wast he most important position they still believed centers were. The thing about Jordan was he basically always showed up and I do mean ALWAYS. That is why is Jordan is the goat the odds of him having a bad game was so low that the key to beating him was keeping it close to the 4th and hoping your superstars could play mistake free the 3 minutes of a game.

Chris Paul is fearless and I love the guy and the way he plays. He Is the best PG and leader from that spot in the NBA but under the current nba system that means less than it did 20 years. When I see people say oh he shouldn't have to score 20 points because he is a pg well than that is the problem because under these rules he should be pushing 30 ppg. The NBA is setup for a certain type of player to take advantage and as a superstar if you can't take advantage of those rules then your teams will always come up short.

toohipcliptoslip
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In this day and age the"Superstar" was Kobe. When Stu "The eeeasy deuce" Lantz said that it was Kobe time it was.He kicked it into another gear. Yeah he's a jackass. Durant doesn't have it. LBJ doesn't even have that quite yet. When we can say "CP time" or "Blake time" we will ave arrived. ---- Barkley said that when a player can score at will he has arrived. He was such a jackass that he could have played 1-4 and been a defensive monster but he chose not to.

clipperboy24
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It doesn't make someone less of a clippers can to criticize your player. It might make you less of a fan of the player but not the team. CP3 has never made it out of the second round, that's just the truth. The guy is a great PG and probably he best in the league but he doesn't have the same super star qualities that a Lebron, Durant, Duncan, even a Paul George has which is rising to the challenge when the pressure is on and showing up in every game.

IMO the biggest problem with cp3 is he either is only focused on dominating the ball to lead to an assist attempt or on scoring. He isn't very dynamic which seems to affect our chemistry. You can nearly call every time if he is going to shoot or pass based on what he does he first 10 seconds of the shot clock. I wish he would take advantage of scoring opportunities when they arise or when they close set up a teammate. There is too much forcing from him which causes our players to not be rebounding (when they all anticipate a pass) or not be moving enough when they anticipate him attempting to score. We really have a very stagnant offense with CP3 at the helm which is interesting for how good of a PG he is. Too much wasting of the clock at the top of the key and not enough movement of the ball.

Obviously this is my opinion.

Bingo3
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I think Davis is going to surpass everyone and be the best PF and contend for best player in a few years. The kid is only 21, and he was beasting for a stretch this season. Only thing stopping him is injuries.

Bingo3
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Very Happy I don't think you were aware of how great our ball movement was with CP on the court during game 6. When he goes off the court our offence turns to **** as it was constantly seen throughout the Thunder series.

JQuick32
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History is full of titles being won by star SG's, SF's, PF's and C's as the first option. It's also bereft of star PG's leading their teams to titles. That's just the reality from decades of NBA history.

JQuick32
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Additionally, he's had plenty of help throughout his career. Other stars like T-Mac, Vince, LeBron in Cleveland, etc. were slandered by the media for not winning with far less help than CP3 has had over the years.

clipperboy24
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Don't forget AI had absolutely no help and still had decent playoff success. (No title of course).

ClipperKyle32
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Wait!!!! If you want to give Chris blame for the playoffs then you should also give him credit. for our back to back 50 plus win seasons 3 consecutive playoff appearances. Damn. Why is CP3....

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JQuick32
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CP3 is not getting hate. He is getting criticism and scrutiny. I know that seems like hate since he's been treated with kid gloves his whole career, but he's about to be 30 years old and has never been to the conference finals in his career, let alone a championship, despite being heralded as the best player at his position and a top 5 player in the league. He blew the biggest game of his career by deferring to Jannero Pargo, he blew the second-biggest game of his career with his comedy of errors down the stretch, he lost a playoff game at home by 58 points. The criticism is warranted.

A superstar needs to dominate on offense. Not only does CP3's small size make him very easy to neutralize just by putting a bigger defender on him, he doesn't help himself by being so passive nearly every game and thinking he can just turn it on in the fourth quarter. He just doesn't have the impact when it matters of a number one option on a championship team. That's why I and many other fans think that we're only winning a championship once it becomes Blake's team. As we saw when CP3 was out and even flashes of it in his rookie year, Blake is a whole different player when he's the alpha and first option, and he has the impact of a top 3 player in the league (see the MVP voting). Unlike CP3, a fully engaged Blake is a matchup nightmare just because of his superior strength and athleticism. THAT'S what's required from a superstar and first option on a contender.

Finally, the Fan Police act is really annoying. Having high expectations does not make us "Laker fans." I didn't sit through all the years of shitty Clippers basketball for second round exits to be the reward. Only a championship can make up for the **** Donald Sterling put this fanbase through for decades. As far as I'm concerned, the mindset needs to be a championship by any means - even if that means trading CP3 or at least demoting him to second option.

Bingo3
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Agree with what ClipperKyle said.

Chris is the whipping boy (just like Westbrook) when things go to hell. He made mistake and deserved the criticism but it's gotten to the point where people are just saying the same things over and over like sheep. Blake brought excitement into this organization and made us fun to watch. CP made us championship contenders, something we could have only dreamt of before he arrived. I know Blake is the golden child around here, but it's Chris who we have to thank for allowing us shot at bringing home the trophy. But whatever people say won't change the minds of people who refuse to look at it any other way.

JQuick32
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Bullshit. Chris is coddled and protected by the media. Blake is STILL labeled "soft," a "flopper," a "bitch," "overrated," and "just a dunker."

When Blake doesn't perform well, he gets criticized. When CP3 chokes, the majority of the fanbase goes into damage control mode and starts bringing up the past, blaming teammates and/or making excuses.

Bingo3
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Blake still pulls off tactics to get under people's skin so I understand some criticism. But he never gets called "just a dunker" anymore. Most people have acknowledged that he has improved leaps and bounds this year and his game has evolved incredibly.

ClipperKyle32
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LoL at the Fan Police idea. Just how some say we are entitled to their opinions. Why can't some be entitled to their opinions of how we as a fan base are acting. If Some....

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JQuick32
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CP3 has mastered those types of tactics and still gets treated with kid gloves by the media.

Bingo3
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Oh c'mon! roll You are just pulling at straws now. He always gets berated by fans for flopping and gets criticized for doing those kind of things to win games.

ClipperKyle32
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Wasn't most of the media saying this team goes as far as Blake will take them? Isn't that true? If it is then why is Chris getting hate. Okay Chris choked. Okay , but the....

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fullcourt
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We played without CP for a month and had great ball movement the difference is how involved is Blake is.

clipper*joe
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Championship contenders?lol You mean first and second round fodder. No, a contender can actually get to a conference finals to be a legit contender. Getting there means you were actually a threat to get go to the finals. No, we haven't been a contender since he's been here. We were swept in the second round the first year, we won two games and then swept in the first round the second year, and we won two games in the second round this season. Is that a contender to you? lol

Chris isn't a whipping boy cause that implies he's being a scapegoat. CP3 isn't a scapegoat. He deserves every critique he gets. BG got his in the first round cause he played like shyte most of the series. Cp3 got his in the second round cause he made one of the worst decisions in modern sports that cost us the game, cost him his confidence, and cost us a closeout game at home. Yeah, stop coddling him and making him out to be a victim. If CP3 isn't playing one, not sure why you want to make him one. That's silly.

david
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Chris Paul had his ups and downs in the series obviously. He started out on fire and pretty much single-highhandedly got the Clippers the game 1 victory. But I must say I was a little disappointed in his performance for game 6. You saw him kind of turn things on towards the end, aggressively attacking the basket, but it was too late. After the game 5 debacle, I really thought he was going to come out with with a boatload of aggression, but nope, never happened until late in the 4th. In general, I was also perplexed why he and the rest of the team allowed Russell Westbrook to drive to the hoop so much throughout the series. Make that guy shoot the jumper, all the time, please. Kevin Durant is pretty much impossible to defend, but you just can't allow Westbrick to hammer you as well.

In the future, the Clippers will likely have to face the Thunder again in the playoffs, and there has to be some sort of change strategically and mentality-wise for the team to get over the hump.

toohipcliptoslip
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Given the choice of Chris Paul or Collison + Carmelo who would you choose? Carmelo would sign cheap to play with BG. Westrbook is faster on his first step than Chris. They're aren't a lot of guys who can guard him one on one. Again Bledsoe comes to mind. Durant is easy to guard. When he drives to the hoop clobber him. If he were going to get like Blake in the paint, his drive would disappear. Body him up and get physical, Don't give him space. He's not strong enough to respond. unfortunately the NBA Gods won't let anybody do that.

For funzies how about a sane Rondo and Deng or maybe Gay. How about get rid of Dudley and add Okafur (fat chance) instead of Paul

. Westbrook at SG Collison at PG,add Deng SF. Run the offense through Blake or PG du jour. Maybe pick up Pau for chump change. We aren't married to Chris.

The all time wet dre*m LBJ for CP3

What can we get that's better than Paul?

BaadMaster
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I am disgusted with a lot of you. Blame Chris Paul? These were two evenly matched teams and THE REFS MADE THE DIFFERENCE. Blame the refs BY NAME and I will agree with you. I don't know what OKC fans said, but did they say all these terrible things about KD when he was going something like 5 for 18 in game four? You win as a team, lose as a team -- EXCEPT WHEN YOU LOSE TO BELLIGERANT, CURRUPT, ACTIVE REFEREES.

This is CRAP that we lost. WE WERE ROBBED. JOBBED. STOLEN. FIXED. PERIOD.

If you are too dumb to see it, shame on you as Clippers fans. CP3 was not the enemy -- the OKC REFS WERE.

In the Godfather, Michael Corleone says, "Don't ever take sides against the family again." I believe this applies to sports too.

CHRIS PAUL IS FAMILY. Shame on those of you for attacking him.

cleepers
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On any given day, there are about 5 players who are better than him... and we already have one of them.

Rudy Gay? Really?

Hornets + Chris Paul = perennial playoff team.

Hornets - Chris Paul = perennial lottery team.

Clippers - Chris Paul = perennial lottery team.

Clippers + Chris Paul = perennial playoff team.

Grizzlies + Rudy Gay = 1st round exit.

Grizzlies - Rudy Gay = WCF.

Toronto + Rudy Gay = lottery team.

Toronto - Rudy Gay = playoff team.

Sacramento +/- Rudy Gay = sucks either way.

toohipcliptoslip
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Michael Corleone loved his family so much that he had his own brother killed. Chris Paul is not family. He is a means to an end, that's all.The end is a ring for CLIPPER NATION. We said the same thing about Elton Brand. This is an organization trying to win a championship not trying to form filial friendships. Nobody is family and anyone can get traded for the good of the team. Wasn't Butler family? He played with a broken hand. Zbo wanted to be family and was crushed when he was traded. If Chris could leave and play with LeBron in the PO's he'd be gone faster than (fill in the cliche). Don't kid yourself. He's family? Why did he sign for max? Why not sign for less and give us cap room? LeBron did. Don't sound like family to me. Including his endorsements he makes enough that he could wipe his sphincter with $100 bills and not miss it. Not an exaggeration. Why didn't he take a pay cut and drop $1.5 mill into the cap reduction fund. Sounds more like Kobe. If I could get a young John Stockton or Steve Nash, CP would be gone before you could say pick and roll.

As far as refs, you are in a Catch 22, good movie better book. We don't win because the refs don't respect us and they won't respect us because we don't win but we don't win because they don't respect us etc

Sorry man but it's time to let the ref stuff go. There's nothing anybody can do about it and being angry does nothing but give you a headache.

Every minority has had to fight through this and they usually have to be better than their majority peers. I'm not just talking about racial minorities. It's women, Immigrants, Catholics, drag queens, Irish, Poles, Jews, Italians. white guys in jazz, straight guys in interior design, the honest in politics, a WASP in the ghetto. AND THE CLIPPERS You may not like it but that's life my friend. Have you ever seen a seventy year old Chinese woman drive? Not only are you in danger on the sidewalk but even your living room may not protect you.

I just discovered Calvados, an apple brandy from Normandy. Don't waste your cash. Maybe the one made from pears is better. Will let you know

cleepers
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Ever tried slivovitz?

Hungarian plum brandy... right up your street, my man.

Be warned: It's a shooter, not a sipper... at least if you value your tastebuds.

BaadMaster
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First of all, many argue the FICTIONAL Michael Corleone would not have killed Fredo. But that is another topic that goes on for hours and hours among Godfather aficionados. Let's relate it to the Clippers.

Yes, many of these players will move at the drop of a hat for a dollar more or a shot at a title. Or both. Does that mean we have no loyalty to them? In our era, they are mercenary, surrogate battle warriors fighting for our city. Do we abandon them at the first battle loss -- before the war is over? I think not. What often starts out as a paycheck becomes an athlete integrated into the local community. If this is all an illusion, we are the deluded. I think not; I am not that cynical.

If everything were so cut and dried, so dollars and cents to the penny, with not a shred of loyalty in either direction, why bother to watch these millionaires? There must be more to that than "bottom line morality" or we are just fools wasting our money to enrich the ultra talented and ultra phony. No, I refuse to accept that there can be such a monumental swindle on such a global scale.

Until traded, Chris Paul, DJ and BG are our surrogate family of basketball warriors. We must not treat them on such a "what have you done today?" scale such that any familial considerations are non-existent.

If the Clippers are not your family, obviously with small "f" compared with your own Family, then why bother to go to Staples? Why bother to say you are a Clippers (or any team's) fan? And why bother to write on this site?

I stand by my view. "Don't ever take sides against the family again." At least while they are still on the team. And giving their all.

toohipcliptoslip
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While not actually Corleone by name a real Corleonesi not a fictional one would not only kill their brothers they would kill their dog. I don't understand your FICTIONAL comment. He is fictional and he fictionally killed his fictional brother. He has to kill his brother because that's the way Mario What's His Name wrote it. He has no independent existence so no choice. There is no HE. Sorry I don't understand.

Are you saying we shouldn't get rid of Dudley? He tries. So did Mullens but they had no talent. Are familial bonds based on talent?

They are not warriors. They are very large men running up and down a wooden floor in their underwear trying to put a leather sphere into a metal hoop, That's all. We like to watch them and they are paid millions because they do it better than anybody else in the world and we will pay millions to see them run around in their underwear. Do I have "loyalty" to he Clippers like to my dear departed dog? No I have fun. I like the rush. That's why I go and that's why I post. Not in any way accusing YOU of anything but my self image and self worth are not related in any way to guys in their underwear. It's fun. I'm loyal because it's fun. Any morality in a game is irrelevant. It's a game, not life, and in the grand scheme of it all it has no more significance than a round of mumbletypeg. There is no reason why an athlete should do anything for his/her community. They should not be expected to be nice people but some like Chris are. The only reason that they are role models is that Americans are stupid enough to make guys in underwear heroes. At least we aren't as bad as soccer fans.

Do I have loyalty to players? No. They are chess pieces in a game and management will trade them in the drop of a hat to better the team. Would you have been loyal to EJ and not traded for CP3?

To them it's a job. Any of them can get traded at any minute. Who should Kaman have been loyal to, us NO, or LAL? Should we still be loyal to EJ. We promised him he wouldn't get traded and we screwed him. When does loyalty stop. They aren't phoney. It's a job.

True warriors fighting for their city are our men and women in uniform. police firefighters, teachers in inner city schools.

As long as one looks back at the refs he can't look forward to victory. I do respect your opinion but I disagree.

kjavis
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dumbfounds me how a defense minded coach could not stop 1 but 2 guys from averaging 30pts in a PO series, it wasn't OKC that beat us, it was WB and KD alone

clipperboy24
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Who knows maybe CP3 for Rondo and their 1st round pick. Would work out salary wise. Rondo is a great passer and would probably be a perfect fit for Blake. Obviously shooting and scoring would be a minus but I feel he spreads the floor better than CP3 and IMO is a better defender. The main benefit would be we save a little cash and could get a star quality player at SG or SF on a rookie contract.

It really is about what's right for the clippers not CP3

laboy
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chris paul needs to go..

he is a jinx..

look what happened to new orleans,they were owned by the nba..

now the clippers will too..

he is the highest paid guy on the team..

the clippers did just as well without him during the season when he was out..

he looks to get fouled instead of scoring..,

his assists look good on paper, but his actions in the playoffs say something else..

clippers need a point guard that can drive to the basket and score...

clippers would be better without him..

his play in the playoffs has been suspect..

CapsNClips
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So funny

Bingo3
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Don't let playing a bunch of trash teams let you think we are better without Chris. Who was playing when we went on that 10/11 game winning streak? Oh that's right, it was CP3

Bingo3
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Rondo would space the floor better? Just reaching right now. They would just sag off him double team Blake all day. You just contradicted yourself in saying Rondo is not a scoring threat but said he would space the floor in the same sentence? roll

JQuick32
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Terrible argument because that winning streak was loaded with bad teams like Cleveland, Utah, etc.

JQuick32
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Nobody was laughing when he choked Game 5 away.

bballman
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=actually,this is a good jinx.

We all wanted Sterling out of there anyway.

Bingo3
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Then isn't our play without him overrated considering we played horrible teams as well? roll

bballman
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Repped High Quality Post

Would CP's leagacy have been different if that play was called "clipper ball" as it should have been? In the end that call was made and the Clippers blew that game. Losing by 1 in game by 5 due to some questionable calls to OKC is not the end of the world. We would all agree that OKC is at least a top 3 team in the NBA. Losing a close series to them is no reason to trade CP. The west is just loaded. Would OKC trade Durant or Westbrook had he calls gone our way,I don't think so. With the top teams out west encountering free agent problems and us having our core locked up for several years,it's our division to dominate. Spurs will eventually age,OKC with Durant and Westbrook possibly leaving in a few years, we are looking good.GS will have to cut some salary to retain Klay. Portland with Aldridge being a free agent in a year. Only Houston and us look set for the near future. Cheer up fans,our future looks bright!

CapsNClips
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I'm not sure which direction you are hoping for me to respond. Do you want me to say "Chris Paul didn't choke, the refs robbed us" Just so you can babble on about how Chris did or didn't do this or that at the end of game 5?

Or do you want me to say "Chris is the best PG in the world" just so you can continuously mention how he's never gotten past the 2nd round?

Either way whatever you are going to say is completely predictable and lacks any form of interest for me.

cleepers
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Yeah, we used to pick top-8 in the draft every single year... ever since he arrived, we're not even IN the lottery... what's up with that?

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