Chris Paul is NOT Lebron James or Kevin Durant

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Agent0
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Chris Paul is NOT Lebron or Durant

We're not getting a Lebron or Durant, and we aren't moving to the East where we get an easier road to success. The quicker people realize that, the sooner they will at the least start appreciating the stars that we do have. That's really all their is to it. The Clippers were arguably a top 4 team in the league: Miami, SA, OKC, LAC, and they lost to one of the other top 4 teams. We have glaring faults we all knew about (SF position, backup C) that aren't related to our PG getting a sucky and stupid turnover when he averaged 23/4/12 on .611 TS%, whose presence on the floor always had the team playing well and who was our best player in the series.

CP's playoff production is above his regular season production, he was more aggressive, he took care of the ball as much as you can, he scored even more efficiently and at a higher rate, and that's all we can ask for. He isn't Lebron, he isn't Durant, so expecting him to be is futile as there are only two of those in the league. In the series, Paul evened out Westbrook, he scored about 5 points less a game, had the same scoring efficiency, got more assists, and had about 10 less turnovers (probably the biggest thing and caused the Clippers as a team to commit 5.5% less turnovers, about 5 less a game). Their production and impact basically cancelled out.

Chris Paul was by all measures a positive

Just think of all the games, when he came on / was on the court, whether Westbrook was blowing by him or he wasn't trying to attack enough by some people's standards, we played well and were better. That's how you know a player is high impact. Not only did our perception say this, the numbers back it up. The best way to see that something is really true is with multiple evidences. I believe the Clippers were (+) in the series when he was on the court. He screwed up in game 5 and we were still +11 when he was on the court. We won game 4 by 2 and he was +12, we lost game 3 and he was +4, we lost game 2 by 11 and he was only (-4)

Game 1 (+26) - 17 pt win

Game 2 (-4) - 11 pt loss

Game 3 (+4) - 2 pt loss

Game 4 (+12) - 2 pt win

Game 5 (+11) - 1 pt loss

Game 6 (-4) - 6 pt loss

A guy is only (-) in 2/6 games, and just (-4) in each and even still net positive for the team in those games. If we take out the blowout, he was +19 on the series while on the court. With the blowout, it is +36.

That's one set of stars, moving on to the next. Durant outproduced Blake by a decent margin, both in volume and efficiency, but we were expecting that I'd hope. He even matched him on the glass per minute, and that is one thing we keep wondering about Blake in the post season, his rebounding. Durant 33/10/5/4.0 tov./610 TS%, Blake 24/9/4/2.2 tov/.540 TS%. So among the 4 stars, we evened out at PG, but were in a deficit with the forwards, so we couldn't match their star production, which means our role players have to make it up.

Role / Complimentary Players

If we want to find places to blame, well here's the efficiency of of complimentary guys compared to OKC's:

Clippers

Jamal: 14.2 ppg / 35.3% FG / 29.4% 3PT / .460 TS% / 95 Ortg

Redick: 12.2 ppg / 45.9% FG / 41.7% 3PT / .570 TS% / 114 Ortg

Barnes: 10.0 ppg / 39.0% FG / 31.4% 3PT / .487 TS% / 97 Ortg

Collison: 7.2 ppg / 40.0% FG / 00.0% 3PT / .461 TS% / 101 Ortg

Jordan: 6.9 ppg / 69.2% FG / 4/19 FT / .582 TS% / 100 Ortg

Thunder

Ibaka: 11.3 ppg / 63.8% FG / 40.0% 3PT / .673 TS% / 115 Ortg

Jackson: 9.0 ppg / 42.9% FG / 33.3% 3PT / .541 TS% / 102 Ortg

Thabo: 6.2 ppg / 61.5% FG / 30.8% 3PT / .688 TS% / 131 Ortg

Adams: 5.0 ppg / 70% FG / .650 TS% / 139 Ortg

We are glossing over the reality that despite his vastly inferior scoring skills, Ibaka was a better offensive player than Jamal this series. A LOT better. Jamal had a 30.0% usage while on the floor, Ibaka had half of that with 15.2%. Our role players really didn't make up the deficit between Blake and Durant, Chris Paul not turning the ball over and being the main cog in limiting TEAM turnovers ended up being the main reason were were ahead or close in games. But not turning it over has its limits as we saw because we still needed guys that weren't Paul and Blake to make shots at a high rate (not 7/22 kind of making shots), and they didn't.

Skill vs Actual Impact

If the extra possessions Jamal used in comparison to Ibaka are spread to a guy with similar efficiency to Ibaka, and CP and Blake increase their usage to make up for it, they might be less efficient individually (or might not), but they would still beat Jamal's efficiency on those possessions, and combined with the super efficiency of this more contained role player, it is a positive for the team offensively. What kind of role player could this be? Well if you had Danny Green off the bench averaging 9-10 ppg on .600+ TS% in a more contained role, you actually net being fairly better on offense this previous series than with a superior individual offensive player in Crawford taking and missing a lot of shots, not to mention that you get extra defense too. That one extra made three or whatever means maybe you're up 16 or 17 instead in game 5, it means maybe you're closer in game 6, and in striking distance, etc. Yea, those little things make a difference when you're matching up similar level teams.

So yes, despite the ability to create, it hurts the team in the end when a complimentary player / scorer shoots a lot and misses a lot because those possessions could be used better. Missing a lot is always bad, but there are things that can at least alleviate it. 1) High level playmaking 2) Getting to the basket a lot and causing the defense to shift which again opens up playmaking with drive and kick, and might increase chances for offensive rebounds at the least. Sadly, Jamal tends to forget about playmaking and Jamal isolates a lot but shoots from the perimeter, so he doesn't even have the extras that while they don't make it okay, can at least soften the blow. Chris Paul and Blake Griffin iso ball even against a good defense can generally still get a team to produce average offense. Jamal Crawford iso ball doesn't produce the same results part of it is because those guys also consistently create and don't just look to score, but of course because they are high level stars / superstars, and Jamal is still just a role playing scorer and just below All-Star level at his best.

We were close in this series because we turned the ball over less. 5 less turnovers a game meant about 5-6 more PPG for us. Paul was the reason we didn't turn the ball over so much. OKC out shot us from the field in 4/6 games. The two they didn't were game 1 and game 5 even though we lost that one. Even in our game 4 win, they out-shot us, but we had 7 less turnovers and 6 more offensive rebounds, so we extended 6 more possessions and had an extra 7, and we won by just 2 points because they shot 5% better from the field and 7% better from the line. Paul's ability to be on the ball so much and not turn the ball over as well as Blake limiting his turnovers (and Jamal despite his horrific shooting) kept us in games and kept us in the series, but we were massively out-shot from game 2-5.

It is good to make shots, duh (including FT's)

Game 2

OKC: .552 eFG% / 72.7% FT (16/22) / 16 TOV

LAC: .500 eFG% / 78.3% FT (18/23) / 14 TOV

Diff: -5.2 eFG% / +5.6 FT% / +2 FTM / -2 TOV

-this game we were only +2 in turnovers and got killed on the offensive glass (35.7% to 19.6%), so +2 turnovers and 5% FT isn't going to make up being out-shot by 5.2% and -6 on the offensive glass.

Game 3

OKC: .595 eFG% / 85.7% FT (24/28) / 14 TOV

LAC: .489 eFG% / 84.0% FT (21/25) / 6 TOV

Diff: -10.6 eFG% / -1.7 FT% / -3 FTM / -8 TOV

Game 4

OKC: .487 eFG% / 76.5% FT (26/34) / 16 TOV

LAC: .435 eFG% / 69.0% FT (20/29) / 9 TOV

Diff: -5.2 eFG% / -7.5% FT / -6 FTM / -7 TOV

Game 5

OKC: .474 eFG% / 88.9% FT (32/36) / 12 TOV

LAC: .500 eFG% / 80.0% FT (16/20) / 16 TOV

Diff: +2.6 eFG% / -8.9% FT / -16 FTM / +4 TOV

Game 6

OKC: .521 eFG% / 87.9% FT (29/33) / 15 TOV

LAC: .453 eFG% / 60.0% FT (12/20) / 9 TOV

Diff: -6.8% eFG% / -27.9% FT / -17 FTM / -6 TOV

OKC had 5 players who played significant minutes with a TS% over .600 (Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka, Thabo, Adams), Clippers had Paul and Davis. We were down 5.2% eFG% or more in 4/5 games. The difference between 40% FG and 45% FG, and I'll admit, the FT difference in games 5 and 6 is a bit wild, and we progressively shot worse and less at the FT line, but it was those 8, 7 and 6 less turnovers keeping us in games.

....and there ladies and gentlemen is why it is a TEAM sport. If you're so focused on trying to find out what the stars did or didn't do (and sometimes they are at the deficit, but not always), you'll miss all the little things that in a tightly contested series will make the difference between a win and a loss. We can talk about whether they deserved their FT's, blah, blah, but if we're talking about Paul, he scored a lot and efficiently, he created, and he limited his and the teams turnovers except for the little stretch. Now, if the role players don't make OPEN shots, cause if they weren't getting open then it is the offenses fault, but open shots, then well what are you going to do?

We had two options to give us the edge, not to crawl away with victories. 1) Blake matches Durant's offensive production in terms of volume and efficiency which just isn't fair, not just because Durant is better, but even considering who is defending each of them and 2) Our role players outplay their role players. Blake did fairly well, but he wasn't close to Durant's production, and our role players lost the battle of efficient role play (and defense), so we were living on one advantage the whole series and that was "Chris Paul doesn't turn the ball over much and doesn't let his teams turn the ball over a lot". That's not the best advantage to live or die on.

david
Site Admin
Posts: 8492
votes: 42

Great post Agent- thought it deserved its own thread as a new blog entry. Your argument backed up with statistics clearly shows that Chris Paul certainly cannot be the culprit of the Clippers vs Thunder series, but rather the problem is mainly with the below par performances by the supporting cast. Repped!

jarca
CTB MVP X2
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Problem is CP Stans put him in the same category as LJ and KD

JQuick32
CTB MVP X1
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votes: 9

You're right that CP3 isn't LeBron or Durant.... those guys have actually been past the second round of the playoffs. CP3 is more of a T-Mac.

Bingo3
Clipper Starter
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At this point, we're just beating the horse to death. He made his mistakes, some of the supporting cast played below average etc. etc.

cleepers
CTB MVP X2
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It IS a great post.

Unfortunately, the mob has to shake their pitchforks at somebody, however simplistic and misplaced their fury may be.

fray_27
Clipper 6th Man
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Repped High Quality Post

Jquick32 you really don't know when to shut up do you all I get ever ever see you do is whine a bitch about how bad this team does and your so damn negative. CP3 and T-Mac are not the same player T-Mac was a scorer and C3 is a leader a pass first PG it's annoying how negative you are and how much your troll this team the players.

FightOnRon
CTB MVP X1
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The mob needs to find a new team if they can't take what happened. That is the bandwagon mentality, not the fan of the team no matter what happens mentality. Always have to find someone on the team to blame so go for the highest paid guy. He makes the most, must be his fault. I would not trade CP3 for any other PG in the league.

I am sort of shocked no one was calling for Docs head on a stick. He didn't take us further then VDN,maybe it's his fault.

Or maybe it is my fault. I forgot to wear my black socks and I forgot to take my shot of MAker's MArk in my car before I went in.

Clipperfn4lf
Clipper All-Star
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Wait you're telling me a 6' PG does not have the same influence on the game as two players over 6'8''. Also I don't remember anyone saying Cp3 is better than Lebron or Durant.

Clippersfan86
CTB MVP Champion
Posts: 15189
votes: 89

Please refrain from personal attacks. It's fine to disagree but this goes into a personal attack when you say things like "you don't know when to shut up" and "all I ever see is you bitch and whine". You're entitled to your opinion, just please present it more respectfully.

JahvonTheClip
CTB MVP X1
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Pretty sure if Lebron or KD was 5'11 they wouldn't be as effective as they are now. Just saying lol

clipper*joe
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Repped High Quality Post

I think Cp3 played arguably his best defensive series in the first round. I was amazed how well he controlled Curry by making him a passer instead of a scorer most of the series. Aside from one game, he did his job better than I have ever seen him play defense. That deserves credit. Enough to make him MVP or Co-MVP of that series in my eyes. Against OKC, he played well up until, late in game 5. There are no words to describe the blunder CP3 made. Yeas, maybe he took care of the ball most of the series but not when it counted. Maybe CP3 isn't LBJ or Durant but he was brought here to be our leader and Co-face of this franchise. He was brought here to help bring us a ring. He was paid to be our LBJ and Durant whether stats show that or not...The salary reflects what LBJ and Durant make.

I appreciate what CP3 has done for this team but I ain't forgetting what he did to ruin our chances to advance. That's what it boils down to. He looked defeated after that and it showed in game 6. If we can't count on our floor general in the most important time, then who can we count on? Our role players? While CP3 ain't LBJ or Durant, we sure are paying him like them.

HyperFuse
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you cant compare an apple to a banana

cashdld
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i don't know why Chris Paul gets a bad wrap, look at the past champions in the last 10 to 15 years they all had multiple all stars and numerous amount of players that contributed to the wins. You have to take in account that at 6 foot he can only do so much and Blake is finally starting to come in his own.outside of Chris Paul , Griffin and Jordan the rest of this team has been inconsistent. They would be hot for a few game and the complete opposite for a few games we are a few pieces away. Look at the teams that won in the past few years:

Heat had 3 stars in Lebron, Wade, and bosh

-with a supporting cast of veterans such as ray allen, shane battier and haslem and more

Mavericks won with a collection of multiple all stars pass their primes with a Dirk to anchor their offense and Chandler and Marion to anchor their defense

-with a sixth man in Jason terry

Lakers had kobe, gasol and bynum with on of the best coach

-with a supporting cast in odom, metta world peace

celtics had their big 3 kg, pierce, allen, and a rondo who came into his own at the right time

-had glue guys such as tony allen and james posey

Heck even the Spurs has 3 all stars in parker , duncan and ginobli

My point being although there were mistakes that can be called out about cp3 this year, all champions had an collection of talent to get it done , and to be honest how supporting cast was mediocre and to inconsistent, and our 3rd players in our alleged big 3 in deandre jordan is limited to rebounds and dunks. we need a players who can score or an consistent basis on the wing who isn't 6 foot.

AirGriffin
Clipper Starter
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For real. JQuick is not a "real" fan in my eyes. Sometimes I wonder how this dude is still allowed to post on this board. He contributes nothing but negativity and bullsh*t.

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
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votes: 37

I was about to respond to this thread and didn't even realize the OP was based on my post, lol. The reason I said that was because people seem to have this default of saying or implying "well Lebron and Durant are doing this and that, why isn't / can't Paul", and the reality is just that he physically can't. One thing though is that if we're talking team offense, Paul is having equal or more impact than Durant at times, even Lebron which is quite impressive for him. He's never going to be able to impact the game defensively like Lebron can or get shots off easily like them.

I think high expectations are great, but in the end, if he isn't able to as easily be as good as Durant on a nightly basis, and then lost to Durant while not having a team that is clearly better in talent. All we can do is try to improve, it doesn't condemn him to forever being incapable of helping a team compete which he obviously did these playoffs. OKC is certainly a team we can beat though, maybe in a series when they have HCA, it's a 55/45 series advantage for them. Maybe it is 50/50 if we have HCA, so it isn't like they just outmatch us.

I agree with most of this, but really there's a max salary, and you don't have to be as good as Lebron or Durant to get it. The Durant's, Lebron's, and even Paul's are underpaid in relation to their actual team and revenue value in order to accommodate for the average player to get a decent salary. Paul get's paid like them b/c of the pay scale, but doesn't he supposed to be as good. Curry, Westbrook, Love, Blake will all get similar amount when it is their next pay day and it won't mean they have to be as good as this or that guy, just that they are upper echelon NBA players.

I don't think he was bad or underwhelming in game 6 when we look at the game flow. He spear headed the offense to start, his defense was good. We were up 8 at half time. Paul had 7 pts at half time as well as 6 assists, he didn't need to be a scorer in the first half. In the second half he had 18 pts and 5 assists, needed to score more and assist less. He did it both ways, played both roles. 13 pts and 4 assists in the second half before the game was starting to look out of reach. The game was tied 72-72 after the 3rd quarter. Westbrook had 17 pts in the second half, and Durant had 25 pts. Blake had 10 pts in the second half. Paul had 14 pts in the 4th quarter, Westbrook had 10 pts in the 4th, Durant 11 pts, Blake 4 pts.

Paul had 20/7/11/3 turnovers before the game was starting to look out of reach, very good production. He had already outplayed Westbrook who had 19/3/12 for the game with 5 turnovers and 4/15 FG even before his last 5 points. Paul is never going to attempt to draw that game 5 foul again, that was in his own words, and as much as the reffing was annoying, that annoyed me the most. The foul on the three is what it is, that's not really something I can say "what's wrong with you", it sucked, but I wasn't mad at the play itself. He didn't jump into him, he didn't do the Blake run at the player and touch their waits / leg for no reason, he put one hand up to contest and it touched Westbrook, that's just a sucky one, but it is a play that happens in basketball.

The thought about his game 6 scoring from most people is probably "too little too late", or the general "he should have scored more earlier", but this game, he shouldn't unless he just wants to pad his stats so if they lose at least he can say "well I scored 35". 13 pts in the second half itself is very good, not to talk of an 18 pt second half, second only to Durant in the game. After the and 1 to cut it to 6 with 1:39, we cut the lead down to 4 and had 32.8 seconds left before we fouled Westbrook. Obviously it would have been nice to cut it down to 4 with more time left, but what can we do? Even with Westbrook making his FT's, if we hit a quick three, we would have enough time to ride it out by playing defense and then go for the tie. Of course they want to take that away, we went for the quick two and Redick missed this: http://on.nba.com/1jTvfD9. Tough one, good look, even with DJ on the put back.

Paul had the quick layup to cut it back down to 6 after they hit FT's with 15.5 seconds left and down 6, really a desperation period. He hit the though three with 8 seconds left to cut it down to 5 after they hit more FT's, but again, there just wasn't enough time left.

It also didn't help that Blake fouled out or that his last FGA was with 9 minute left in the 4th quarter. He had 2 minutes rest, but in the 5 other minutes he played, all he had was a blocking foul, a foul on Collison, a charge, and then a foul on Westbrook. He was at 2 fouls with 9 minutes left in the 4th quarter and then fouled out, lol, really? I don't think he got too fair of a shake, but I mean it is what it is.

Paul's game 5 mistake was embarrassing and terrible, but Paul's play and ball security kept us in the series in the first place since him and Davis were the only super efficient scorers on our team while 5/8 guys playing 100+ minutes for OKC in the series had a TS% over. 610. Lower turnovers kept us alive, that's the reality. We shot worse in 4/6 games but got to take more shots because we turned them over (Paul helped), and we didn't turn it over (basically one of Paul's greatest skills). Their role players beat ours on both ends, and their stars won out, mainly because Blake isn't there yet, despite his regular season performance, and you know what? That's okay. Three stars played at a superstar level in the series, Westbrook, Durant and Paul, Blake was still clearly behind those guys in his series impact. Even in game 6, Paul won the Paul vs Westbrook matchup, but Blake obviously has to have an amazing game to match let alone beat Durant's 39 pt production, so if Blake isn't matching and our role players don't do enough in comparison to theirs, we have one leg to stand on, Paul not just outplaying Westrbook, but also making up for the difference in Durant + their role players vs Blake + our role players. Basically the problem with this team is that we still seem to end up having these "if Paul doesn't produce from minute 1 to minute 48, the team can't make it up in other areas to win games, and that's just not going to be good enough for consistent high performance as a team. You need Chris Bosh to grab an offensive rebound and kick it out to Ray Allen, you need Ron Artest to get a tip in, etc.

Even the little things, we were 12/20 (60%) from the FT line (Paul 5-5), 6/21 3PT = 28.6% (Paul + Redick 4-9 = 44%). If you have a more consistent 3PT shooter than Barnes who goes 2/6 3PT instead. At whatever point in the game, we're +3, that one more basket changes the game flor. Granger + Barnes 0/4 FT, 1/8 3PT they make 2 and again they hit 1 more three between them, that changes the game. Sefolosha and Collison miss the three's they hit in the game, that changes the game, but they made their's and we missed ours, and for this game it made a 6 pt difference. All those little role player additions add up over a game, over a series and determine the final winner as much as how well your star(s) does/do.

Clippersfan86
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You've been given an official warning for this post. I've said it about 20 times, this attacking people as not being "real" fans WILL NOT be tolerated. It's about the most offensive thing you can do on a sports forum. Somebody with opposite views can be just as much of a fan as the next person. Please post more respectfully in the future. The way this forum has ALWAYS been... is we have a balance of more optimistic fans... and more skeptical fans. Neither way is "right", they are just different. If every fan on here was optimistic and thought everything around them was roses, this would be a boring forum.

ClipsGForce
Clipper All-Star
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CP3 is not Lebron or Durant, he's CP3. It's so obvious, he's his own man and legend.

BaadMaster
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On the Lakers LTB board, there were guys like you even in the title years. They were called Kobe haters. If the Lakers won, it was because of Shaq, Pau, Ariza. Metta, DFish, the ball boy, the guy who mops the wet spots, the cheerleaders -- anybody but Kobe. If we lost there was ONLY ONE culprit -- Kobe Bryant. He shot too much, he shot too little, he played too many minutes, not enough minutes, he missed a free throw in the first quarter. No matter what, he was to blame.

You are like that with CP3. Doesn't matter that the refs took away his victory. Or DJ missed a bunch of free throws. Jeez, if Danny Granger had made ONE SHOT IN A BLUE FRIGGIN' MOON, and shot even slightly better than Stevie Wonder, we would have won every game against OKC.

Chris' career is far from over. For the three years he has been here, he has put the Clippers in a position to win. That is all you can ask for a player in a TEAM game.

letitbled
Clipper Rookie
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What's so bad about saying that in "his eyes" he's not a real fan. Harmless but I guess your the boss. In my opinion you're the one who should lighten up a bit

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