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Post subject: John Hollinger
 Posted: Jul 03, 2008 - 04:35 PM PST
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Clipper Starter
Joined: Apr 09, 2008
Posts: 604
Location: L.A
  
votes: 6
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How good are the Clippers now?
Assuming Brand stays, they're decent … and that's about it. I'm not sure they're even a playoff team in the West. Seemingly everyone is talking about the 2005-06 Clippers who won 47 games and comparing this bunch to that group, but what about the gang from 2006-07?
That team had Brand, Maggette, Chris Kaman, Tim Thomas and Cuttino Mobley healthy all year, and it went 40-42. Replace Maggette with Al Thornton, and replace Sam Cassell with Davis, and you basically have the 2008-09 Clippers … except with Mobley halfway to the glue factory and no depth whatsoever. So we're really supposed to buy that they'll rocket into the West's upper crust?
I wonder whether everyone is overlooking the personality angle, too. On paper, few pairings seem more flammable than Mike Dunleavy and Baron Davis. Dunleavy is a control guy at the offensive end who likes to call set post-up plays over and over, while Davis has bristled under every coach who didn't give him free rein to launch contested 3s off the dribble with 21 on the shot clock.
Don't get me wrong, Davis is a fantastic player. But I wonder how it's going to work when Dunleavy calls 4-down six plays in a row and whether Davis' disdain for structure ultimately will cause him to underachieve the same way he did for Tim Floyd, Byron Scott and Mike Montgomery.
While I'm on a roll, one other thing -- let's not overreact to Donald Sterling spending money on talent. Signing both Davis and Brand takes the Clippers to the salary cap … and that's it. Granted, that's a pleasant departure from the days in the late '90s when they were making trades just to meet the league's minimum salary, but it's not like he's going dollar for dollar with Mark Cuban. Of course, this will become more obvious when The Donald fills out the last five spots on his roster with minimum-wage guys, but that won't happen for a couple more months.
It seems to me that no matter what the clippers do they never will get any respect. While i might agree on whether Baron wants to slow up, I think for the sake of winning you would have to let Baron do his thing when the game is on the line and to set up tempo. I think we won 24 games with nothing and if having a pg can make t.t shoot better, mobley play better and open up the inside for our bigs, how could we not be a competing force in the west. We would have 3 veteran with a taste for a championship or the ability to compete for one. Didn't one team just win the nba finals the same way. |
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clipperfan909
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Post subject: RE: John Hollinger
Posted: Jul 03, 2008 - 05:02 PM PST
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Clipper 6th Man
Joined: Dec 18, 2006
Posts: 227
votes: 9
Status: Offline
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Two things are going on right now after the Davis signing:
1. Writers like Hollinger aren't giving any respect to the Clippers and are talking out of their ass just to stir up emotion and sell more papers. They are haters because of their ego and pride to give in to the consensus that this was a good move. They want to go against what everyone else is saying about how the Clippers turned things around so that if the Clipper ship sinks, they can say "Told you so."
2. A bunch of people have been telling me the past couple of days, "I can't believe we got Davis!" My response, "WE!?!?! Since when were you guys Clippers fans?!" ...And so the bandwagon jumping begins.
I guess on the bright note this is a sign we have a good franchise because we have two things that they are made up of: haters, and bandwagoners |
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lifefu2e
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Post subject: RE: John Hollinger
Posted: Jul 03, 2008 - 05:46 PM PST
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Clipper D-League Pickup
Joined: Jul 03, 2008
Posts: 2
Status: Offline
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| hahaha bandwagoners make me laugh.... remember 05-06? when people were saying they were clipper fans, wearing their jerseys and shirts they give out at the games? just 6 months later they went back to being laker fans. THEY SICKEN ME... |
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Post subject: RE: John Hollinger
Posted: Jul 03, 2008 - 05:49 PM PST
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Clipper Starter
Joined: Apr 09, 2008
Posts: 604
Location: L.A
votes: 6
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| its crazy. but when does the hating stop and the bandwagons start. Articles like this piss me off. When we were a young team in the playoffs it was there 2 young now we get a tad older and the younger teams like portland utah and such are much 2 good. If portland has no one on their team that has ever been to the playoffs how can they match a team where the main 4 were in and took a team like phoenix to 7 games. |
_________________
Let the Baron Davis Era begin already.
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Post subject: RE: John Hollinger
Posted: Jul 03, 2008 - 05:52 PM PST
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Clipper Starter
Joined: Jun 04, 2008
Posts: 492
Location: Los Angeles
votes: 8
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| The Baron Davis signing will increase awareness of the team, so more casual fans will start claiming citizenship (and the naysayers will be speak their doubts even louder). I say let them. Let the bandwagoners gather, this team isn't about them anyway. Temporary visas will increase but it's the longtime citizens of Clipper Nation that are happiest right now. |
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clipper*joe
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Post subject: Re: RE: John Hollinger
Posted: Jul 03, 2008 - 06:03 PM PST
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Clipper All-Star
Joined: Jul 26, 2007 Age: 41
Posts: 1115
Location: los angeles
votes: 23
Status: Offline
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journeyman wrote:
The Baron Davis signing will increase awareness of the team, so more casual fans will start claiming citizenship (and the naysayers will be speak their doubts even louder). I say let them. Let the bandwagoners gather, this team isn't about them anyway. Temporary visas will increase but it's the longtime citizens of Clipper Nation that are happiest right now.
NICE! |
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MrB
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: John Hollinger
Posted: Jul 03, 2008 - 06:51 PM PST
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Clipper Starter
Joined: Jun 06, 2008 Age: 33
Posts: 390
votes: 2
Status: Offline
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| We live in La. We have the Rapers down the hall. This town jumps on the bandwagon as soon as it picks up speed. Look at all the Rapers car flags that cam out once they made it to the finals. Fact of the matter is this town is the way it is. I don't like it but its not gonna change. I had my first season tickets last year after being a Clipper fan for about 15 years. Financially I've never been able to do a whole season. I met so many people that had season seats that said we signed with the Clippers because the Rapers have a long waiting list. Those people are pathetic. I certainly don't want em around but what can you do. Win or lose, cheer them on regardless. Brand committ already! WTF!!!!!! |
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dwb
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 04, 2008 - 03:23 AM PST
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Clipper 6th Man
Joined: Jun 30, 2007
Posts: 217
votes: 13
Status: Offline
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Hollinger? If memory serves Hollinger was the expert that saw Thornton as one of the most likely "busts" of the draft, mostly based on his age and Hollinger's own personal rating system, the PER score. His pre-season rankings had Al as the 19th best rookie prospect... according to Hollinger's PER rating system. I'm not saying that the PER is worthless, but it's certainly not infalible, as based on those numbers he had such luminaries as Aaron Gray, Josh McRoberts and our own Nick Fazekas among 15 other rooks pre-season rated higher than Al. No knock to those guys but Al, the 19th best rookie? I don't see it. Thus, as a predictor, Hollinger has already... well let's just say that if we were rating "seers", his PER wouldn't be so good. As to his comparison of the '06-'07 team and what we could have this coming season...
"That team (referring to the 2006-2007 squad) had Brand, Maggette, Chris Kaman, Tim Thomas and Cuttino Mobley healthy all year, and it went 40-42. Replace Maggette with Al Thornton, and replace Sam Cassell with Davis, and you basically have the 2008-09 Clippers … except with Mobley halfway to the glue factory and no depth whatsoever. So we're really supposed to buy that they'll rocket into the West's upper crust?"
First off... this is a VERY different CK than the '06-'07 version. That's huge. Then he kind of glosses over replacing Sam with BD, which I think is also pretty big. Sure Sam could play, but he was still on the downslope of his career/game, and BD is not. Not even close. He also discounts the signing of Eric Gordon completely. Really? The number seven guy taken in the draft, one of the top freshman scorers in the nation, the dude who pretty much dominated a very tough conference, and he doesn't even get a mention? I'm not even going to talk about what most think was our "steal" of the draft, DeAndre Jordon. Who knows what he might contribute? Plus he evidently leaves TT in the starting lineup... is that happening? I don't think so John. Surprisingly, he doesn't say anything about the current bench, even though it includes his #4 PER ranked Nick F. (and btw I LIKE our summer league team... Koko is very athletic and Salisbery looks like a player, besides the promise of Taylor) Ok, so I can't say that we'll "rocket into the West's upper crust" either... but it's a pretty tough conference. I CAN be pretty sure though that we'll be a hella lot better, assuming health and signing EB. *please sign EB!* If that happens though, we will be competitive with anybody! This article doesn't bother me a lot, I can't give too much credit to Hollinger's predictions. I don't know, sometimes it seems like he's kind of PER-blind. In fact, I PERceive his predictions as a good deal less than PERfect, and in some instances positively PERfidious. Even PE... well, you get the picture. I think he's wrong! Again! |
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