2014 NBA Finals Thread - Heat Vs Spurs (P. 3)

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JQuick32
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LeClip 2014 getting closer after this chokejob from the Heat. LeBron is even worse off than he was in Cleveland with this collection of bums out here on the court!

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Miami's in heat!

Agent0
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Maybe bargain is the wrong term, maybe it is more accurate to say that you need high value/production to contract ratio players. Productive rookies are great for this as they end up making a lot less than their on court value.

Duncan is still playing at close to a superstar level though, and Parker is also still a very good player. The low minutes due to them winning 70% of their playoff games by 15+ points mask their true rate of production, but Duncan is giving you 18/10/2 per 36 with elite defense, Parker 20/2/6 and Ginobili's rate of production is at 20/5/6 per 36, I mean how many teams have 3 players like that on their roster and a Kawhi Leonard to add to it?

Green's production is relative to his talent level, he isn't a bargain per-say, he's paid fairly well, okay, maybe in the market right now he's make $1-2M more, but that isn't a big deal, doesn't change anything. Spurs main three guys have played right at the edge of superstar production these playoffs even if it is in less minutes, so I mean what exactly does the "no superstar" label mean here if you have guys who aren't being called superstars but are producing at a high level (though people actually call Parker a superstar, so I guess they technically do have one).

I mean in the end, Blake is called a superstar (if we aren't doing a super strict definition), but is Blake a superior player to Duncan? He really isn't except for being a higher volume scorer. In the playoff's, Duncan's 18/10/2/.569 TS%/21.1 PER and elite defense as well as the ability to play C vs Blake's 23/7/4/.552 TS%/21.3 PER and of course not the same level of defensive ability or the ability to play C. Blake gets the superstar label, and you won't trade Blake for Duncan at all due to a massive age difference, but if you're heading into the playoffs this season, Duncan probably gives you a better chance at success, labels or no labels. PER doesn't tell you who is better, but it is a good summary stat for overall production, and essentially you get the same overall production except one guy is a better mid-range shooter, can anchor a defense, can play C, and one can't. He had similar production last season, 19/11/2/.523 TS%/21.3 PER, and of course the defense.

If we have Duncan instead of Blake the last two seasons, it changes a lot including the types of lineups you can run because you can play Duncan at C. So I don't even know with the labels, the Pistons though I'd agree they didn't have a superstar (again, some people considered Ben one because of how dominant they viewed his defense, but I don't know), either way you're going to need highly productive players who compliment each other and play both ends whether you get superstars or you just get a ton of very good players.

CP3Heliflopter
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Wade is completely done as a player. His knees are completely shot. Its sad to see how quickly he has declined.

CapsNClips
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Very sad. He's probably my favorite non-Clipper of the last 10 years.

CP3Heliflopter
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Parker played like hot turd and the Spurs are destroying the Heat.

I think Duncan or Kawhi should get the Finals MVP.

JQuick32
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It's going to get very dicey in Miami when he refuses to opt out and they're on the hook for $40 mil over the next two years with a completely done Wade. That's why LeBron's leaving - the "superstars" he thought he was joining turned out to be complete bums who finally became so bad this year that even he couldn't carry them.

CP3Heliflopter
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Wade was a superstar in 2011. Bosh was never a superstar. Just a soft, all star that could put up great numbers on mediocre teams.

The thing with Wade is he relies too much on his athleticism and hasn't evolved his game at all. After his first season with Lebron he started to decline really quickly and he had his meniscus removed before which made things worse. Now he isn't even an all star anymore. He looks like a scrub at times.

Bosh doesn't even go inside anymore. Too content on chucking 3s and doesn't bother to rebound.

JQuick32
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Wade peaked in 2008-09, IMO. That season he was somewhat in the "best player in the league" conversation. It was all downhill from there. I've never liked him anyway - he's a bitchmade flopper and cheap-shotter with an annoying-ass, smug personality. For all my fellow hockey fans on here, he'd fit in perfectly with the Bruins since he's basically Lucic and Marchand combined.

And yes, Bosh was never a superstar. He was the best player on a mediocre treadmill team in Toronto and that fooled people. He's a pretty cool guy off the court by all accounts though and is a good role player, albeit way overpaid for his role.

Agent0
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Wade played like an All-Star up until the finals though, but 54 games in the regular season just isn't going to cut it for a guy making that much money

ClipperKyle32
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This can be the Clippers soon. We have all the pieces some of them just didn't fit this season. Lets Go Clips

ClippersDA
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We don't have all the pieces. We don't haveany two way players and we don't have quality wings.

ClipperKyle32
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I said we have all the pieces , but not we had it all together. Blake and Chris are pieces. Chris is a Two Way Player. We need other pieces around them, pieces than contribute like Green,Mills, and other players like that , but Blake and Chris are key pieces , but we don't have all of them. Maybe I should have said the Clips have a great foundation to build on

ClippersDA
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Name one two way player aside from cp3. Pieces are just pieces unless they fit. Ours don't. We don't have any player that has that clutch clutch gene the way even the spurs role players do. The spurs front office seems to have some special,glasses that allow them to see into people and suss out whether they have championship DNA. Chris Paul May be tough as nails and not scared of anything but he over dribbles in the clutch and seems to go away from what works. We have a lot of talent that seems to lack that it factor. I'm not saying trade blake and Chris, but if the spurs taught us anything it's that you can win with team ball as ling as you have universal sense of fire. Passion and an equal commitment to big ends if the court, oh and we need a better wing in the worst way. I'd take even a elite defender at that position over an offensive player, kawhi has shown offense can be taught. Defense is in your blood.

JQuick32
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No team that is forced to start Matt Barnes at the wing can claim they have "all the pieces" with a straight face, let's be real now.

Agent0
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Kyle, that seems to contradict itself. How can we have all the pieces but then need other pieces around them? Wouldn't we by definition not have all the pieces then? Also if you say we have all the pieces, but some don't fit, then we don't have all the pieces. Maybe you mean we have the main pieces which would make more sense.

We certainly need an infusion of length on the perimeter, and we need to do our best to find players that compliment our guys. Blake and DJ would be best served with a guy with the length to play C next to Blake, but enough range and quickness to also play PF next to DJ. Redick needs to be backed up by a more defensive wing with length. We need a guy or two off the bench that don't just get shots for themselves but can create well for others. We're at a decent spot, if we get a bingo in the draft and make some moves here and there, we can get to a spot where we have a fairly overall balanced team that isn't overly reliant on offense/star player production.

JQuick32
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Blake has the "it" factor, IMO, it's just that Chris "Overdribble" Paul refuses to trust anyone else in the clutch - despite his own legacy of choking - and hogs the ball.

jarca
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Leave it up to Lisa Leslie to be classless by calling the spurs boring after displaying beautiful basketball

jarca
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You know how POop always say the guys on his team need to get over themselves? CP has yet to get over himself

JQuick32
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If Doc sitting him down before this season and telling him he's won nothing in his career didn't make CP3 get over himself, nothing will.

ClippersDA
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Blake is a great player but I'm not sure if he has that "it" factor someone like Duncan or ginobli does.

Agent0
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Defense can certainly be taught, but at the highest level there's still a need for some physical things to maximize that defense. Length and mobility also need to be there to some extent. Blake Griffin can't try his way into becoming a defensive anchor, he really just can't. When Lebron James, Carmelo Anthony and Kawhi Leonard among many others have a higher reach than you, you're just not physically bound to anchor a defense at a big man position.

One of the areas Redick doesn't compliment Paul is that you're essentially the league's shortest backcourt with those two guys, so at the LEAST you want to make that up at SF, which we don't, Barnes also isn't a long player. Jamal isn't a defensive guy, and our bench SF's have been kind of irrelevant this season.

Spurs offense killed it these playoffs, but if their defense was giving up as many points as their offense was producing then we might be singing a different tune. The Clippers currently are still at a stage where even if they play really good offense, we haven't seen that the defense can hold the opposition below their averages for a series.

ClippersDA
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Free throw shooting is important too

It seems. That's why I am leaning towards selling high on jordan.

Agent0
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You know SA fans have said Parker over-dribbles in crunch time, and this has been said about Ginobili too. Luckily for SA they won the majority of their games by double digits in the playoffs, so they didn't need to be figuring out what to do in close game situations too much.

This teams limiting factor isn't clutch offense or any of the clutch stuff, I hate all these minimizing it to minuscule things. When we can actually hold a team below their regular season offensive production we can start worrying about whether the coach shouldn't run isolation plays in crunch time.

JQuick32
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Manu sure didn't have an "it" factor last year..... more like a "****" factor in game 6.

CapsNClips
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Neither do Leonard and LeBron.

Both are Finals MVP's. I'm okay with that.

JQuick32
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By the way, Durant is a salty-ass bitch:

He's clearly mad as hell that Kawhi has a ring and Finals MVP before he does. His "humbleness" is so fake, it's sickening!

JQuick32
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LeBron has an "it" factor.... he showcased that in Game 5 against the Pistons, Game 6 against the Celtics, and Game 7 against the Spurs last year.

His horrendous supporting cast just **** the bed so badly that he didn't even get a chance to demonstrate it this year beyond Game 2.

CapsNClips
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Of course Chris won't get this luxury excuse from you, am I right?

I'd take Battier over Barnes, Wade over Redick, Bosh over DJ, Birdman over Hollins, Allen over Green, Lewis over Dudley this year.

Seems like a pretty decent supporting cast if you ask me.

ClipperKyle32
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Cannot Wait. The Draft is soon.

Things aren't looking good for Donald right now and that is a good thing for the Clips. He is crazy. He cannot run the team so he shouldn't remain owner. Why can't he just take his money and STFU.

Hopefully he changes his mind again and this is over so we can go in the draft and free agency with a clear and clean slate

JQuick32
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Blake > anyone LeBron had on the Heat. And CP3 STILL overdribbled and flopped his way to yet another second-round choke, with help from Jamal's chucking. No more excuses for CP3. When has he ever demonstrated an "it" factor in the postseason when it matters?

CapsNClips
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Genius. Bravo! Bravo! Congratulations!

*Hands award for best impersonation of Skip Bayless*

CP3Heliflopter
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And what exactly did Blake do in the playoffs that makes him better?

Nothing.

Dunkathon
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JQuick32 wrote:
By the way, Durant is a salty-ass bitch:

He's clearly mad as hell that Kawhi has a ring and Finals MVP before he does. His "humbleness" is so fake, it's sickening!

Oh man, his rage is amazing.

Slightly sad Duncan didn't get Finals MVP, but with all the work Leonard put in, he fully deserves it.

zaneil3715
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the only player that i can see play with either dj or blake that has size length and perimeter shooting is spencer hawes.

toohipcliptoslip
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As far as LeBron coming here, will he play well with a ball dominant point guard when he plays point guard? Take a lesson. he "Big Three" didn't last long. The Spurs may have another run. They don't have a big anything. They wouldn't feel that they failed because of Parker or Duncan. They failed as a team. Duncan is not "The King" He's just another team member. I would rather have solid players. I might prefer Deng plus a payer of the same caliber to Melo at least a younger Deng. Definitely Deng and Mills. I'd prefer Leonard to Melo. Pierce if he has gas, Leonard and Mills over LeBron

How would LeBron play in the triangle? Me thinks good.

ClipperKyle32
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"The Los Angeles Clippers? Well, a source said James and his wife, Savannah, love Los Angeles. LeBron James also is close with Clippers point guard Chris Paul and he admires coach Doc Rivers. But the Clippers already have at minimum $66 million in committed salary next season, which leaves no room for James' max salary."

Who says he needs a max salary?

jarca
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Someone will over pay for deng. Realistically, we might end up with Pierce since he's gonna be a bargain. We can't sign a game changer at the 3 spots, we either get it by trade, develop a rookie, or get veterans on the down hill of their career

JQuick32
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LeBron-to-Clippers rumors started spreading as early as two summers ago, started intensifying this past February, and now it comes out that LeBron and his wife love LA?

Where there's this much smoke, there's fire.

CapsNClips
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As much as everyone jokes about Cleveland's incompetence, they are probably still the front runner to snatch LeBron.

There are 3 options for LeBron in my eyes.

Cavs > Heat > Clippers

JQuick32
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There's no way LeBron's returning to that dump except for maybe at the tail end of his career. They've consistently made all the wrong moves if they really want him back.

ClipperPostman
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Well comparing Clippers to Spurs doesn't make sense. They've had the

same coach and system for 17 years. Imagine that. If we had Doc

Rivers for 17 years we'd probably win at least 4-5 rings minimum.

Jerediscool
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You've gotta compare the teams by position, CP> Chalmers. Wade > JJ. Lebron> barnes. Griffin > Bosh. DJ > Haslem. Ray > Jamal. Collison > Norris Cole. Baby > Bird.

Out of each teams top 8, we have 5 better players. But Lebron is still the best player in the game.

CapsNClips
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Actually Bosh is their starting Center and I think we all can agree LeBron is better than Blake right now.

CP3>Mario, Wade>Redick, Barnes>Lewis, LeBron>Blake, Bosh>DJ

FightOnRon
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I agree Cleveland is going to make a run at him for sure.

ClipperKyle32
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We all know some may be better players ,but I think the Clippers have players that make a better impact on the game. DJ has more of an impact than Bosh on both ends. Redick atleast tries to play D and is actually good at it. Plus Redick is a better shooter right now.

As far as LeBron and Blake i give that ( = ) or > or = to.

They both are the same impact on the game. LeBron gets the slight edge defensively , but Blake is improving

Agent0
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Sheesh Kyle, homer much?

DJ doesn't have more impact than Bosh on both ends, come one. Redick has forever been a better shooter than Wade, but at his best he's still an average defender because he's limited physically. Wade was 19/5/5 on high efficiency before the finals.

Lebron is a far superior player to Blake still, come one. OKC series showed it. CP, Durant and Westbrook had superstar level production, Blake didn't, and that isn't a slight to him, it's just what it is. If Blake can't match Durant in a series, how can we start saying he has the same impact as Lebron? Come on now, let's not get carried away here.

pageC4
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Clipper fans I had to bring back this thread just to share this nice morsel. We may not have won the championship, or made it past the second round..but for all you guys who hate the Spurs, enjoy

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