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slestack11
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I agree, but some on here were saying "who cares, it's just a late first-round pick" on draft night. With the new CBA and veterans' growing reluctance to take less money (which the players' union could be behind), you simply have to be able to draft well no matter where you're picking. You're screwed if you can only rely on trades and free agency to build the roster, which is what happens when you suck at drafting. The Lakers are also finding this out the hard way.
Well, in the Lakers case, they did very well in....

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slestack11
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Does anyone know how much veterans minimum is and how many of those we can give offer this offseason? Is it $2M per season?

Agent0
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It is different based on how long a player has been in the league. You can offer as many as you want and ranges from like $900K to like $1.6M or something like that.

900k for like a 1 year vet and $1.6M for like a 10 year vet.

CapsNClips
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Why don't you go look up that box score and then compare it to Kyle Anderson's.

And Timmy didn't look bad at all.

Kyle Anderson looked slow as hell today and didn't show any signs that he'd be able to keep up with any NBA quality player. I'm not going to completely right him off yet, but if scouts saw this game before the draft he'd be a mid 2nd round pick.

Agent0
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The worry about Anderson was that he is extremely slow. Athletic ability is not his forte.

JQuick32
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I think Randle is being overrated by the media simply because of the team that drafted him. He has no jumper, was a turnover machine in college, not a terribly good defender and is already having foot injuries, which can be deadly to a big man's career (just ask Yao). Laker fans seem to think he's going to be a 20/10 machine immediately since they overrate everything related to their team, but he's a project.

As for Clarkson, like I said with Anderson, Summer League really doesn't matter. As a second-round pick, if the Lakers get anything more than spot minutes at best from him, they can consider themselves fortunate. I don't know much about him but I'm assuming there's a reason he plummeted to the second round.

But regardless, this year's draft isn't the reason the Lakers are in this position, obviously, it's been a series of bad trades and signings and wasted draft picks in previous years by Kupchak.

CapsNClips
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His defense looks epically bad. I wanted Anderson before the draft, but now seeing him get obliterated on almost every play, I'm so happy we passed on him.

He is a pretty great passer though.

slestack11
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Matrix has been in the league for 17 years. Does this mean we can offer him $2M per season?

JQuick32
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Another example if you don't like the Duncan example: Kevin Durant shot 4-19 from the floor in his second Summer League game.

I don't care what Anderson looks like against rookies, UDFA's, castoffs and scrubs. What matters is what he'll look like in a real NBA game, and I'm not betting against the Spurs to develop him right.

CapsNClips
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Dude, stats played ZERO part in my judgement of Anderson. When I was watching him play he couldn't stay in front of anybody and wasn't fast enough to get a shot off.

And FYI, Anderson playing in actual NBA games is only going to be harder for him. NBA SL is a faster paced game than College and the NBA is a much faster paced game than SL.

The kid looks like he's going to be a bust. Be happy, we lucked out.

Agent0
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Summer league stats mean nothing, but there are things you can take from summer league. The inability to guard a position is something that could certainly be an issue. Dudley has better lateral quickness than Anderson, he wasn't being acquired for his perimeter defense, but for his versatility.

He might end up having to be a PF in the NBA on defense. At 6'8-6'9 and with his 7'3 wingspan, he can do it, but the strength will need to be developed.

http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz37OT9M6EH

This might also have been a worry for some:

  • Anderson is clearly one of the most unique prospects in this draft, a player with incredible gifts, but also some very glaring weaknesses. Ultimately whatever team drafts him will have to be comfortable with what he is and isn't, and be willing to work around his shortcomings. Some of that will come down to Anderson's willingness to adapt his style of play. He has been told his whole life that he is a point guard and a point guard only, while his family members have been very open publicly about the fact that that's the only position he's capable of playing. Will a NBA head coach be willing to just hand the reigns of their team over to him and scrap everything else they've been doing to conform to his style of play? Can he be successful otherwise? If he doesn't get handed the keys to his NBA team's offense, will he be willing to adjust his style of play, or will he demand to be traded? That could be heavily dependent on how high he's drafted, even though the last similar case we can recall, Evan Turner, was picked very high and still was forced to change his game.
tense2
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Don't think for the most part you can judge if someone is going to be a bust until their 4th year. A lot of people on this site said the same thing about Aminu and some of those same people are hoping we can get him back.

We'll see how he does in the next few years. Kid has pretty good BBIQ and BB skills. I think he finds a way to be productive, just how productive we shall see.

slestack11
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Are there any leads right now regarding guys the Clippers are targeting. Maybe Doc Rivers is on vacation this week.

CapsNClips
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People who thought Aminu was going to be a bust were probably looking at what he produced on the stat sheets. If you looked at Aminu's physical gifts and potential you wouldn't be able to call him a bust that early.

Anderson's flaws aren't from a lack of practice. They are physical flaws that almost never get earned.

Someone who moves like a snail can at best hope that someday they get the speed of a caterpillar.

From what I saw in Anderson today I'd be willing to bet Mike Miller has twice the speed and athleticism of Anderson. That's bad.

JQuick32
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This is one SF I'm glad we whiffed on:

$9 million for a washed-up Caron Butler? Are we sure that Detroit actually fired Dumars?

Agent0
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Caron did well for himself getting $4.5M a year, I guess our minimum idea was way off lol.

D.J. Augustin got $3M/year too from Detroit.

uncool
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DET is overpaying everyone! Jodie Meeks got a JJ Reddick contract too!

tense2
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That's how most people judge bust...from the stat sheet and again most people here thought he'd be a bust, physical gifts not with standing.

Like I said before, we'll be able judge with more certainty after 4 years. We'll see if SA made the right pick, but what ever system they use to choose in these late rounds seems to be working. I'll put my money in their corner.Smile

JQuick32
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In all seriousness, Detroit's not the only one overpaying. I'm honestly convinced that the players' union has started pressuring free agents to forget about winning and grab for every cent they can in advance of the next lockout in 2017. Then they wonder why the fans, who just want to see their teams improve and win, always nearly unanimously side with the owners.

uncool
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I'll never side with the owners! Players make this league great, it should be a free market, just like baseball & LeBron should make $70 million annually! I don't fault a single player for getting their money. Owners make more money if they win, players have to take less to win? Let's say you, JQuick32, make $90 K per year. I own the company and I tell you I found an applicant that would really improve your work efficiency and his rate is $115 K, so in order to afford you both I need you to take a pay cut to $65 K... "BUT THE COMPANY WILL DO WAY BETTER!" Would you "side with that owner" and take one for the team?

A team is selling for $2 Billion... with a B! Players should get every penny that they can. Their responsibility is their family before a certain teams fan!

tense2
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If the GM's and Owners are dumb enough to overpay, don't blame the players union. Overplaying in most sports is a common thing now days. The owners are making money, lots of it. That's why these sports franchises aren't going cheap. See Clippers sale.

clipper*joe
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Hate to break it to some of you, not all teams are making money. Teams like the Lakers end up profit sharing to keep those other teams afloat. What the CBA did was to even the playing field and make it harder for free agents to leave their small market teams. That's why we also have a repeater tax now. Teams like the Lakers will have to think twice about raking up 100 million in salary and if they decide to do it anyway, they will help support the other teams that have no talent and are losing money. With that said, I'll always side with the players.

The Clippers sale is not indicative of what an average team is worth. This was a special case. the guy that bought the team just wanted in the NBA so bad he paid an outrageous price cause he could. There was a lot of opportunity to make more money due to renewing a new TV contract but even with that, Ballmer will never break even.

tense2
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But with all that being said, the price of buying a team keeps going up with plenty of buyers lining up.

Interesting article on The NBA 2013/14 team revenues:

http://blogs.denverpost.com/nuggets/201 ... son/11011/

clipper*joe
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Depends who's selling and how much interest it generates. Ballmer who was NBA crazy is off the market now so the market should stabilize. Grizzlies sold for $377 million. Bucks sold for $550. Tell me how that happens? Depends how much interest there is at the time. Pelican- $338 and it took a while to sell. Kings sold for $534 partly due to Ballmer's interest. he inflated the market.

tense2
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In most businesses, someones always inflating the market. Prices always in the end go up in the sports team buying business.

clipper*joe
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That's profitability, not really revenue. Nuggets ranked 8th in the league thanks to the most profitable teams like the Lakers.

"According to Grantland's Zach Lowe, who acquired and verified an official memo the league sent out to all 30 teams in June, the Nuggets benefited nicely from the league's revenue-sharing to rank No. 8 among teams in projected profitability for 2013-14, despite an otherwise forgettable season. An exact figure was not mentioned in the report."

That's what i was saying a few posts back about profit sharing.

tense2
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Oops you're right, meant profitability.

In the end, how the teams make their profit doesn't really matter in the way the NBA business is set up now, just as long as their profitable all is well.

clipper*joe
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That's called a bubble. Just like all bubbles, they're bound to burst. Plus, inflation always stabilizes. Eventually, buyers are going to want to pay close to it's real worth. The last few sales had nothing to do with the real worth of a the team being sold.

tense2
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Can you give me an example of that "bubble" in the sports world team buying business.

clipper*joe
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Not true. Not all teams are profitable. Those teams are sustained by the profitable teams. That's why there were major changes in the new CBA. That's why those owners losing money complained about not being able to compete with the bigger market teams.

tense2
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It looks like most teams are profitable though with this revenue sharing.

clipper*joe
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If I had to guess, the next team is NOT going to sell for over 2 Billion dollars. I can't give you an example cause I don't follow what teams in every sport are worth and what they sell at. But when team are selling twice or in our case, 4 times it worth, it is not sustainable. That's my point. Future owners won't be paying 400% over value.

clipper*joe
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Sure, in the way a guy with a sign asking for food comes away full of profit at the end of a day.

tense2
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You maybe right, we'll see.

tense2
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Bad analogy, but I get what you're saying.

Business is business, however the profits come about for most owners though.

Clippers_FTW
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Thought this was the small forward search thread.... Wonder where that went

JQuick32
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I went back and watched the tape of Anderson and he wasn't the disaster he's being portrayed as. He wasn't getting enough touches because his teammates were chucking every time they got the ball, especially Daye. He was the only one trying to get shots in the paint and was being ignored. In the second half, they had Anderson bring the ball up and the offense settled down and looked better. He also held Wiggins to 3-11 shooting.

Ayres on the other hand is just a brutal basketball player, can't imagine how Pop tolerates him.

Agent0
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I thought the issue with Anderson is how slow he is on defense against NBA wings, not his offense. Offense in summer league means nothing, a guy not being quick enough in summer league could mean adjusting what position you will play him at. Most Spurs fans see him as a Diaw replacement in the future which will mean they are looking at him as a PF/SF and small ball C. No harm testing him at SF in summer league and seeing how he fares.

The only issue will be Anderson's willingness to play PF, not the Spurs idea of how/where to implement him IMO. I didn't watch the game, it's summer league, but did he hold Wiggins to 3/11 or did Wiggins just shoot 3/11, if you know what I mean.

tense and clipper_joe, don't forget that NBA teams get overvalued because of supply and demand too. There are only 30, and the owners are also buying prestige when they are buying the team, it isn't just a purely business move.

clipper*joe
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Ok, call it corporate subsidies. Corporate welfare (only some teams really need it). My point is that it isn't really profitability. It's basically a handout and then call profit for the team receiving it. Hence my analogy.

Back on topic...

FightOnRon
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I'll bring it back,I don't think we are looking now. I think we stand pat with what we have and hope for the best.

itsLuigi
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Shawn Marion would make this off season a success. I hope Doc has him as a top priority.

clipperboy24
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Well we missed out on Alan Anderson for chump change. Would have rather gambled on losing Farmar and using the BAE on Anderson. He could have started at SF or played SG. We really botched that one

tense2
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Alan Anderson...meh. Didn't miss out on much.

clipperboy24
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He's better than Dudley and at 1/3 of the cost

tense2
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In your head I guess.

jarca
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Not even Dudley's magical stats can save him from what clippers fans saw last year lol Gomes 2.0 remember that

jarca
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He's gonna get 5-8 mil. Don't think we can sign him. He's too good and versatile to take the minimum

clipperboy24
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Haha classic tense post right there! Mr predictable.

tense2
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Saids Mr. BS, LOL. Classic.

Even with Duds very disappointing season he was still better then "never was" Anderson.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... p;y2=2014. Career numbers

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... p;y2=2014. Last years numbers

dom1
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Wouldn't mind bringing in justin holiday. Jrue big brother. He is 6'6 long and rangy. Can shoot and play good defense. Can't b worse than Dudley. Maybe we can develop him and he would b had for the min

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