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tense2
CTB MVP X2
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votes: 20

No. Plus we don't need another rookie/big ? on the team who won't get that much playing time anyway.

CapsNClips
CTB MVP X1
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votes: 46

CDR and Ray Allen would be pretty decent and I'm too lazy to check if we'd still have money left for a late season pickup of Okafor, but that would be ideal.

renshaibob
Clipper Starter
Posts: 993
votes: 1

Oh God no to Ray Allen please. We have enough 6'7 and below SG outside shooters. We need a wing that can defend attack the rim and rebound.

CapsNClips
CTB MVP X1
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And that person is???

realbull17
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 2502

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votes: 6

I hope we sign Amath M'Baye. He played very well in our LVSL. We have 11 players. We have 4 roster spots left. He can be one of those roster spots. Smile

renshaibob
Clipper Starter
Posts: 993
votes: 1

i would like that move. take a chance on something that we lack, a long athletic wing slasher that can get out there and cause havoc and run with

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4411
votes: 44

I believe we can sign three minimum contracts and that is all we can offer, so we should be able to pick him up if that option became available

tense2
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 8983
votes: 20

We have approx 3.5 mil for min deals.

SteveBaller
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 223
votes: 5

I really hope we sign Ray Allen since it would mean Doc has a trade lined up involving Jamal for a starting sf.

We do not need Jamal's not-so-playoff-friendly one dimensional offense when:

  1. We had the best offense in the entire league last year.

  2. After trading Jamal, our more balanced bench would consist of Farmar, Allen, Barnes, Davis, and Hawes. That's a lot of offensive firepower right there, plus improved defense from Barnes. Ray Allen is much better than Jamal in the postseason. He's the definition of a proven clutch player.

I'm originally from the Seattle area, so I've liked Jamal Crawford for a long time. He's a really great guy who does a ton for the community. I just see potential opportunities out there right now that I think would make us a greater threat in the postseason.

clipper*joe
CTB MVP Champion
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Location: los angeles
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votes: 126

We had the best offense partly due to Jamal being our second highest scorer on this team. I think you lose that title if you lose Jamal.

realbull17
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 2502

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votes: 6

If Doc wants Ray Allen he better hurry up. The Spurs are going after him too.

Icecoldclipper
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9467
votes: 20

Guess the sixth man award gained Crawford no respect still. The guy is a key piece to the team everyone will be much improved. Eve Crawford at his worse can't compete with how bad Ray Allen was last year the guy is close to done.

realbull17
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 2502

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votes: 6

Jamal isn't going anywhere. Ballmer likes him a lot. Ballmer went to see him play & hang out in Seattle.

SteveBaller
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 223
votes: 5

This isn't about respecting Jamal. I clearly indicated that I more than respect him as a person. I also respect his game, but I think it doesn't fit on this particular playoff team.

It also isn't about Ray Allen being a lesser regular season player than Jamal. It's about Ray being a much better postseason player than Jamal. He plays his role perfectly, doesn't take wild contested shots, and he is one of the most clutch shooters in the history of the game. It's a nice perk that he'll cost 25% as much as Jamal does too.

If people are convinced we're best served by worrying about maintaining our #1 ranked offense at the expense of having a #7 defense I really don't think anyone is going to convince them otherwise. Jamal is far and away our worst defensive player. We might have a chance to turn his one dimensional bench production into a two way starting sf. If that opportunity presents itself, we obviously do it without hesitation. Now, I honestly don't think it will since if I were a GM I would never trade a two-way starting caliber sf for 34 year old Jamal Crawford.

Jamal's great at what he does during the regular season. However, defenses have loaded up on him for years in the playoffs when he has always struggled. JAMAL IS ALWAYS A WEAKNESS IN THE POSTSEASON. We are a playoff contender trying to improve. The Clippers are 'Bold' now. We're going to try and make moves that improve our chances at a 'Larry'. Jamal is friends with everybody on the Clippers including the owner, which is great. It speaks to the quality of person he is. This is purely business though. This isn't personal. It's about winning.

Icecoldclipper
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9467
votes: 20

Jamal gave the team strong production in the GSW series and everyone was up and down in the OKC series in one way or another. Its going to come down to needing more from JJ and Doc having more trust in playing JJ late in games.

-clippernation-
Clipper Rookie
Posts: 93
votes: 0

keep jamal and trade wilcox and reggie or something. we don't need some star at the wing that's going to eat more of our cap. we just need someone that can defend and slow down other sf's. doesn't even need to score, we have enough scoring. be the sf version of dj.

fullcourt
Clipper Starter
Posts: 290
votes: 5

Exactly people don't know what they are talking about. How does someone argue jamal is the problem when he comes of the bench? The issue is not about Doc trusting JJ but JJ actually earning that trust for some reason jamal is the fanbase whipping boy while JJ can do no wrong and its ridiculous. How do they ignore the disappearing acts by JJ,DJ,and Barnes and always end up on jamal?

If we can improve the team I'm all for it but using some of the reasoning that was given here there are other players that could be moved as well. I wouldn't do it because that is not how I think championship teams evaluate themselves.

cleepers
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9002

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votes: 116

Right now, if I were another team's GM I wouldn't give anything better than a 20th pick for Reggie. Kudos to him, I guess. He may have increased his value by about $200k... while taking about a million in salary.

pageC4
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4751

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votes: 24

Great points Steve. I have always kept this in mind regarding the team. Last year we had the best offense in regards to many categories, and that 7th ranked defense was the achilles heel. This is exactly what we need to address. I think the concept of losing some offense scares people, and this leads them to be hesitant on moving Jamal. However, if we were to get a two way player in exchange for him i think the trade would not make us bad but strengthen up our defense, which will help us go deeper.

At this point I'm more than willing to trade Jamal if the right opportunity came along. Again thouhg it would have to be someone that brings enough defense to make that trade worth it, say a guy with the defensive capabilities of Tony Allen.

pageC4
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4751

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Yes you do, correct. But if we got a guy that provided stellar defense we may swap from 1st best offense and 7th best defense to something like 4th best offense and 4th best defense, which would provide more balance. I guess I don't trust being too heavy on either side of the ball recently some teams have not done well when heavy on one side and deficient on the other, even defensive heavy clubs like Memphis haven't fared all to well.

Joey
Clipper Rookie
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Location: Joey
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I'd rather keep Jamal than get Ray Allen lmfao.

tense2
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 8983
votes: 20

You must be looking at the wrong Ray Allen, lol. And as "bad" as he supposedly was, Allen still shot better percentages @ the 3PT line and FG in the PO's then Jamal.

http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/co ... eason=2013

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... nra02.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... fja01.html

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4411
votes: 44

Very true, the guy has been a great offensive machine for this team in the regular season. I'd hope if we moved Jamal we would be bringing back a player that is good enough on offense where we don't lose that title, but really being the #1 ranked offense vs the #2 or #3 ranked offense isn't going to change this teams fortunes. Better defense has a good chance of changing it because as long as we aren't moving CP or Blake or moving multiple supporting guys while getting incoming players who are allergic to offense, we will be a top 3 offense.

Jamal isn't a guy you trade for scraps, but he's probably the teams most valuable piece that can actually bring reasonable return. In terms of replacing offense, we'd have to assume the incoming guy wouldn't suck or be negative on offense. We'd also have to assume more than 35 games or whatever J.J. gave last season as well as adding Hawes would all ideally make up for the loss of a Jamal as well as having a Dudley replacement who doesn't have his career worst season. So while we could lose Jamal and not be as good offensively as if we had him and all our other additions, we could move him and still be the best offense relative to the league.

I can't imagine he would be moved and we'd get some useless offensive player, if that happens then Doc really needs to stop having a hand in the management decisions because that would be ridiculous. Anyways, this is all speculation, and I really don't understand what the point of Ray Allen would be for this team as currently constructed.

Maybe if we get some idea of the truth in the talk and some idea of what the return would be if trading Jamal was actually in the works then we could give better opinions, but the team has done a fairly good job of keeping things on the DL. He's not some guy we must absolutely keep or something, we'd survive, but we shouldn't just squander him either.

Hey, if there's an irresistible offer, I'm fine with moving Redick too. Like Jamal, he also does a lot of good things and his playoff work was good, but just depends on what you are getting. Now I wouldn't move both, it has to be one or the other and for the right offer. Of course with him being Doc's guy who didn't disappoint like Dudley, that's probably not as realistic.

vitamink
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 25
votes: 0

Don't think Ray Allen will be in town.. he is heading to Cavs...

SteveBaller
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 223
votes: 5

Jamal plays enough minutes that his impact on games is nearly the same as our starters. Consider how much time he spends handling the ball and you have to admit that Jamal has just as much opportunity to either positively or negatively effect a game as anyone.

JJ has earned high marks from the majority because of his consistently SMART and TEAM FIRST style of play (not to mention his better shooting percentages than Jamal). He only shoots when it's the smart thing to do. He always passes when it's the smart thing to do. He doesn't force anything. He never holds onto the ball for more than a few seconds. These things have a truly profound effect on the flow of our offense as any discerning viewer has surely noticed. When all FIVE players are selflessly moving the ball, we almost always get a high percentage shot.

JJ, Barnes, and DJ all play within their clearly designated roles on the team. They all give strong effort on the defensive end; this team's greatest weakness. Whether Doc has clearly defined Jamal's role or not, it certainly seems to have no boundaries. When Doc tried reigning in Jamal's freelancing, his game went down the toilet. He didn't fit within the same system as every one else. So, Doc (right or wrong) let him go back to being himself. Jamal's numbers went up as ball-movement went down.

Unfortunately, Jamal is the opposite of JJ. He forces things. He looks for his own shot more than anyone else on our team. He rarely passes once he gets his hands on the ball. During the regular season, it's easier for fans like me to turn a blind eye towards this poor shot selection and ball-stopping AS LONG AS WE'RE WINNING. I appreciate his good games maybe too much, and I sometimes even gloss over his bad ones. However, his postseason play has been too consistently awful to continue ignoring. Good offense is all about efficiency, especially in the playoffs against great defenses. Jamal has never once achieved a fg% of even 40 in the postseason...That's REALLY BAD. Even worse is how he achieves those low shooting percentages: He hardly ever passes the ball so the other team can easily predict that he's gonna shoot and their defense is able to load up on him. He dribbles out possessions while Blake and Chris are on the floor just standing there...that obviously cannot happen. Jamal AND Doc should both know better, but I think Doc's coming around based on his benching Jamal late in the playoffs.

Jamal's 34 now and he's not likely to change the way he plays basketball at this stage of his career. He's a player that would work really well on a younger team that didn't have the direction or collective ability yet to run complex offensive sets. I'd want Jamal on my pick-up team, that's for sure. On an NBA team vying for a title, all five players need to work together in concert as one finely tuned machine. Jamal plays one-on-one really well, but the team around him is designed to play elite five-on-five.

cleepers
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9002

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votes: 116

For all the Jamal fans (I'm one, too!), I really don't think people are hating on him when talking about a potential trade... just that he could possibly, with a great FO move, net us somebody who might provide a better fit for this squad. Nothing has come up yet and that's why he's still a Clipper.

Even the more stat-driven guys on this forum are not itching to trade him for peanuts the way some other guys' Dudley-hate had them rejoicing that he was out the door before even looking at what it cost us.

I mean, we have some very level-headed guys who are fine with what Crawford provides...

Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_10

OMG!!! Agent wants to trade Jamal for Paul Pierce!

Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_08

Icecoldclipper
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9467
votes: 20

Such a cop out and weak to call JJ simply smarter when he has a limited skill set compared to Jamal. Even then JJ has had his moments trying to play beyond himseof and has had bad shooting nights or injury. You think JJ is going to create his own shot often its not going to happen. Looking at Paul, Doc and Griffin they all encourage Jamal to be aggressive when in the game because a lot of times Paul and Griffin get dribble happy as well and eat clock. To throw Jamal under the bad post season when JJ had the same up and down is unfair.

To original point Allen wouldn't survive half a season here with the responsibility this team puts on crawford. Another big reason for having Hawes and DC last year was to help balance out scoring.

ClipperKyle32
CTB MVP X1
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Posts: 3249
votes: 27
Let's Look At Our Current Team: Chris Paul - 19 PTS , 11 AST , 4.3 REBS JJ Redick - 15 PTS , 2 AST , 2.1 REBS Matt Barnes - 10 PTS , 2 AST , 4.6....

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fullcourt
Clipper Starter
Posts: 290
votes: 5

Well said and that was exactly my point. There is no one available that can do what jamal does and one of the keys to trading jamal would be that you would have to believe that JJ or DJ would take a huge step up offensively and I am not sure Doc would take that gamble without getting back a proven player.Everyone available would be highly dependent upon Blake and CP to create opportunities for them and while jamal also benefits from those opportunities he also has the ability to create for himself AND others and that is where his importance to the team comes into play. If the season starts and JJ and DJ show they can take and sustain expanded offensive roles throughout January then I could see pulling the trigger on jamal.

laboy
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 150
votes: 0

we should trade jj before we trade jamal..

he makes more money and has not stayed as healthy as jamal,

spontane
Clipper Starter
Posts: 479

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votes: 9

Who could we get for the min that is relevant?

ClippersDA
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 3557
votes: 11

Could not disagree more. Jj is younger, a much better shooter, and at least gives defensive effort. No one liked to talk about Jamal's age but that impacts his value to other teams. Not to mention jj has at least a finals appearance under his belt and is a total team player. Jamal seems mainly concerned with how own stats.

SteveBaller
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 223
votes: 5

Please read Agent0's longer post above mine. He addresses many of these concerns in great detail which is why I did not feel it was necessary.

Having a player like Jamal who's particular skill is creating his own shot, takes the other four players out of our offense. That's bad, inefficient offense in the playoffs. Especially when the person creating their own shot doesn't shoot it very well. Championship teams move the ball unless they have a truly dominant scorer like Durant. That isn't Jamal, although he often plays like it. I want that to stop.

ClipperKyle32
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 3249
votes: 27

???? If Gee gets waived...

SteveBaller
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 223
votes: 5

  1. JJ Redick plays smarter basketball than Jamal Crawford.

  2. If by limited skillset you're referring to JJ being a more efficient scorer and a better shooter than Jamal, than I agree. He also plays off the ball and utilizes screens in ways Jamal clearly demonstrated he could not earlier last season.

  3. JJ never plays beyond himself.

  4. Of course JJ has occasional bad shooting nights and injuries. He's a human being.

  5. Nobody wants JJ to create his own shot like you're thinking of with crossovers. He creates higher percentage shots by running off screens.

  6. Doc, CP, and Blake might encourage Jamal to play hero-ball during the regular season when we're winning easily a lot of nights. Chris and Blake like any other superstars like to rest whenever they can during the regular season. "Sure Jamal, have at it" is their attitude I'm sure. They are by no means implying that Jamal is their equal or should be given a fraction of the same time on the ball. That's why Jamal got benched for his poor Kevin Durant impersonation in the playoffs.

  7. JJ did not have the same "up and down" as Jamal during the playoffs. He straight outplayed Jamal. Raw scoring totals mean nothing when the guy with the higher number is much more inefficient. If JJ had been given some of Jamal's minutes, he'd have outscored him with a higher fg% on top of it.

  8. Ray Allen wouldn't have the same responsibilities as Jamal and we wouldn't need him to. We have plenty of scoring threats already that are going underutilized when Jamal is on the floor.

  9. We didn't have Hawes last year, but his newly added offensive punch alongside Farmar will really help to offset any drop off we might experience from trading Jamal for a starting small forward. Also, don't forget that Barnes would then be coming off the bench instead of injured Dudley or Bullock.

fullcourt
Clipper Starter
Posts: 290
votes: 5

Agent has shorted jamal every chance that he gets. The fact that you think that all jamal can do is create his own shot says about as much that is needs to be said in this discussion. Jamal can score PERIOD to suggest that he can't is ridiculous.

a lie

Jamals value is that he can do both and that he is not 100% reliant upon the greatness of CP and Blake which just about every other person on the roster is. Jamal didn't take anyone out of our offense that is simply not true HE COMES OFF THE BENCH. This stuff is not even remotely true but people feel if they say it enough than it becomes truth but it doesn't.

Only on this board does someone say jamal can't be kevin Durant and not realize that the only way that it even gets remotely to that point is because guys like JJ,barnes,and DJ are non factors most of the time offensively. To get mad at jamals role who played slightly over 20 mpg and blame him while ignoring three starters who were just as inconsistent is to not see the forest through the trees.

Jamal has played his role as good as anyone in else in the league could have. You aren't going to find many people making <MLE who could give the production as a bench players and still spot start as needed that would be perfectly ok with either role. That is also going to be willing to accept the responsibility of closing out games in the 4th as well.

If something comes up that gives value for jamal I'm all for it but we should be less focused on what Jamal doesn't do in in his role of the bench and more focused on why we have 3 starters that he constantly has had to pick up the slack for offensively. jamal at his age imo is perfect as the 4th option the problem is that we don't have a consistent 3rd and while it doesn't hurt us doing the regular season in the playoffs it put the spotlight at just how little offensive impact our other 3 starters have on the game.

SteveBaller
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 223
votes: 5

I stopped reading at the "lie" part. I and others have more than adequately presented our case. Good day to you sir.

ClipperKyle32
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 3249
votes: 27
You can't discount the guy , because he doesn't do more than we ask him too. We ask him to score off the bench. When have we ever signed him to come in get 15 pts....

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fullcourt
Clipper Starter
Posts: 290
votes: 5

and I'm just calling it what is. Jamal Crawford was assisted on over 51% of his fga and somehow that equals only being able to create his shot and taking the other 4 guys out of the offense. The case you made was a epic fail because its not based on what his role on the team but what you guys think his role should be. The numbers don't back up your claims and you guys know this but if gets said enough you believe its true even when its not.

TheBlakeShow
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 140
Location: Moreno Valley
votes: 1

ClipperKyle32 wrote:

???? If Gee gets waived...

I think Gee is a great option. His numbers are not amazing but I think with this team he would be a solid pick up.

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4411
votes: 44

This is just a flat out lie, you just have issues with any sort of comment about Jamal that isn't saying he's amazing and the team will fall apart without him for some reason. It's just weird.

-clippernation-
Clipper Rookie
Posts: 93
votes: 0

Woj just tweeted Turkoglu is nearing an agreement to return... Why...

vitamink
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 25
votes: 0

I believe Gee is waived by Kings already.

vitamink
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 25
votes: 0

I even heard big Z wanted to be back several days ago, so no shock here...

SteveBaller
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 223
votes: 5

He's too similar to Hawes who's obviously a much better player at this point in their careers. I guess we have up to 4 minimum deals available to us now, but with CDR, Ray Allen, and Udoh out there, I don't see why Turk's up first. CDR's the obvious first signing unless Doc has a deal in the works for a more expensive sf...

CapsNClips
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4058

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votes: 46

Let's pickup Jamaal Franklin and Udoh and I'll be happy.

SteveBaller
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 223
votes: 5

fullcourt wrote:
Agent has shorted jamal every chance that he gets.

Agent0 wrote:
This is just a flat out lie, you just have issues with any sort of comment about Jamal that isn't saying he's amazing and the team will fall apart without him for some reason. It's just weird.

I think I know what's really going on here Agent: fullcourt has a secret man-crush. He's like a Kobe fan who's pathologically incapable of acknowledging his chosen one's faults. Very Happy

JQuick32
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 3178
votes: 11

It's because inefficient one-note chuckers have a strange allure for some people because there's always going to be fluke shooting nights where they look way better than they actually are. It's the same reason why Laker fans worship Kobrick and Warriors fans booed their owner for trading Monta Ellis.

realbull17
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 2502

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votes: 6

Hedo Turkoglu will return to the Clippers on a 1 yr deal 1.4mil

MrT22
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 1
votes: 0

The name keeps popping up;Chris Douglas-Roberts. Is this the guy who couldn't make the Lakers?

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