Clippers Sign Spencer Hawes to 4 Years 23 Million (P. 4)

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LAbreakers
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more DJ isn't this, ain't that.... dude simply needed minutes, is simply becoming a better NBA player w/added years under his belt, and his intangibles and durability are tenfold of the other names being floated around this forum.... it would be a mistake to trade him.... he also has virtually no supporting cast in terms of defense, and that includes Blake and CP3, of whom it is not altogether uncommon for him to lose his match up against the top pg's in the playoffs.

it might be rather far out landish, and.... would love to see Hawes @the 4, w/Blake @sf, and see if he could slow down the likes of KD & LBJ come playoff time.... the championship goes through the sf position.... would like to see those guys have to guard Blake for an extended time, and see what our version of the twin towers can muster.

and still don't buy the DJ's ft's are the problem argument.... too many great centers w/NBA championships under their belts, did little more than clang the roundball off rim after rim.

also, why do people here still insist to frame their argument from solely an offensive standpoint and minimize or neglect the defensive side of things.... I thought defense won championships, not 3pt percentages.

clipper*joe
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Yeah, they're televised too. Only in the LA area though.

slestack11
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I wonder if the sign and trade with Cavs will also include Luol Deng for Deandre. Seems like their salaries line up.

tense2
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You're killing me Joe, lol.

By the way, what channel and time.

ClipperKyle32
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You have to by lying haha

clipper*joe
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Public Access channel. Depends what cable company you have.

I don't know what date or time this year but KCAL 5 usually announces it in their morning show.

zaneil3715
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Now that the team has 3bigs to play major minutes between the pf and c position, all of a sudden people want to trade dj.people evaluate dj like he is already 30.he is still young and is capable of improving.he made a big jump last season so expect him to take more responsibilities of the team especially on offense.bg dj hawes is a scary frontcourt if you ask me.versatility of skillsets are in place.

letitbled
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Tempting? Really? That's just a bad trade and IMO has no chance of happening. Dj is far and away the best player in that trade. If we trade DJ then we are left with only Hawes at the 5. Just a really bad idea.

clipper*joe
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I agree. As much as I dump on DJ, I prefer to keep him now that we have a legit core of Bigs. This also gives us leverage when it's time to up DJ next season. It also gives Doc options late in games now. I'd only give up DJ is LBJ becomes available.

CapsNClips
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Last I heard David was still in talks with Time Warner Cable to get exclusive rights to the presentation.

clipper*joe
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I didn't hear about that but Power 106 said Mike Smith might be master of ceremonies.

CapsNClips
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Oh nice. He should add some much needed spice to the show. I trust he'll do much better than a certain presenter a few years back, I don't want to name any names, but I think we all know who I'm talking about.

tense2
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Thanks Joe, I'll be sure to stay tuned to KCAL.

ClipTakeover
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No chill with this award ceremony, LOL!

toohipcliptoslip
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No exactly. We could trade DJ if he agrees to extend. He has an $11 mill contract. We start Hawes. We have $11 mill to get two players. Would require several teams. Deng was a bad example. $7 mill SF, $4 mill Big or some combo thereof. What if DJ gouges us?

clipperboy24
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DJ is solid but is he really so much better than Hawes that it would be worth have a crappy SF? Also we would still have our full MLE to use on someone. That's basically 2 extra players for the price of DJ. We could sign another legit big with the MLE and we get our starting SF. Would work pretty well. We could then use the BAE on a backup PG.

That would leave us with a team like the following:

PG: Chris Paul / one of the following: nelson, farmar, Brian Roberts

SG: JJ Redick/ Crawford (if we only trade Dudley and Barnes) Wilcox and one of these: Alan Anderson, morrow, James Anderson

SF: Luol Deng / barnes if we only trade Dudley and crawford) Bullock / one of these: aminu, granger, Garcia, Hamilton

PF: Griffin/ Ed Davis with some of MLE and one of the following: earl Clark, Andray Blatche, Jordan hill, Jason Smith

C: Spencer Hawes and one of the following: Blatche, hill, Ayon, Okafor (if he can play)

That's definitely a team that will contend.

Now what might be better, if we could just use the MLE to sign Hawes and traded for Thaddeus Young we would still have Deandre and still be able to pick up a decent backup big and PG.

tense2
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Why would DJ agree to an extension if he's has the feeling he'll get traded. He MIGHT sign an extension if he's guaranteed he wouldn't be traded in the first year or two to stay with the Clippers. With one more year before becoming a FA, his agent won't/shouldn't let that happen.

slestack11
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I like what DJ did for us last year on the defensive end and leading the league in boards, but if we can trade him along with Jamal Crawford, Jared Dudley, and/or Matt Barnes for Lebron or Carmelo, the Clippers should do it. Having Spencer Hawes as the starting center would be just fine.

cashdld
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It would be a bad ideal to trade deandre Jordan away the clippers defense looked bad when he was off the floor, its bad enough that our wings give too many open drive, it would be much worse of we didn't have DJ bailing them out all the time. The best trade scenario is going after Wilson chandler who on a decent contract, and he still has young legs. He provides defense ,scoring and athleticism, and I doubt we would have to give up Jordan for him.nuggets have a bunch of wings they may be more likely to let him go since they have gallinari .

botev1921
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With Hawes here I would trade DJ in a heartbeat for the likes of Deng or Ariza but would not do it for Wilson Freaking Chandler - a guy, who can't be consistent if his life depended on it! Deng and Ariza can defend and are actually pretty decent on offense too!

inventor310
Clipper 6th Man
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Trading Jordan our best big defender NOWAY!

We keep our combo of Blake Jordan Hawes. All we gotta do is add a wing man or two sign a SG that can defend and add some more three point shooters.

tense2
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For LBJ yes, for Melo no.

Agent0
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Stop people, stop. We're not trading DJ for above average SF's.

Agent0
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If Nuggets gave Chandler and Mozgov then it can work as we get a DJ replacement, just Chandler, again, please no. But they have way too many C's already.

pageC4
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Jordan is a good defensive player. When focused he can block just about any player, and his durability is a huge reason why he has such value. DJ, however, has a lot of downside as well. He does get lost on plays and sometimes risks too much when going for a block. Overall he isn't a fundamental player, but one that can get gaudy stats. That being said I would be willing to trade DJ for a SF that was a two way player and another piece. The issue is getting equal return for DJ because despite my criticisms of the guy his ability to stay healthy is huge for us. We would have to get two players in return and these guys would have to offset the defense we lose with DJ gone.

Chandler would be part of a good package in return for DJ, but on his own I'm not sure it would be a smart trade for us.

david
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Uh oh some tension brewing already between BG & Hawes Wink.

clipnasty
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McBob signed for the exact same deal as Hawes. I think we did good...

ClipperKyle32
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BaadMaster
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Hawes is 7'1". Twenty six years old.

You can't teach height and youth.

Slam dunk, Doc!!!!

kjavis
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What's with some peoples fascination that DJ is untouchable, for the right return he is more than trade-able. If you take away his field goal percentage which is only due to all his shots being dunks, he is just a 1-way defensive player. For that type of player to really contribute to a 'championship' caliber team he would have to excel and be the best at what he does, a comparable player that comes into mind is Ben Wallace. The question is has DJ already reached his ceiling because his deficiencies still out-way his positives. I'm on the opinion like some that we should consider a deal that works to our advantage while his stocks are high.

Agent0
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DJ is valuable

You can't take away his FG%, that's part of why he is a good offensive role player. Also offensive rebounds are positive to offense, so he does that too. You want your offensive role players to be efficient. Inefficient role players hurt a team, even worse are inefficient role players who think they are better than they are and shoot too much.

DJ's stock is going to be fairly high for a while. We need to find a core and then stick with it and build around it. I've said this before, there is value in consistency to an extent. Don't move Parke/Manu/Duncan, but when you see an opportunity, even though you really like George Hill, because of fit and balance, you trade him for Kawhi Leonard. Due to efficiency and defense issues, you let Gary Neal go, etc. Right now we're only truly solidified on CP/Blake/DJ. Hawes is fairly solid being recent and with his trade kicker and all. Jamal is like our George Hill. DJ is on the bubble because he's going to be a FA and his contract demands are what make him a difficult one.

Do we believe DJ is worth like $12M/year to this team? That is the hard question to answer and there are arguments both ways, and the FO is going to have to figure that out. Money is not unlimited, going into tax is no longer easy in the NBA. I've mentioned Mozgov a few times, but do you take a guy like Mozgov re-signed next season at the MLE or DJ at $12M going forward for this team? Jordan Hill for example at MLE or DJ at $12M. If you save money at C, it's money you can be put into other positions via trade etc without going into tax or too far into the tax. We can theoretically have Hawes and another good C who can bring a lot of similar skills to DJ for the same price of just DJ. That makes it hard. So this year in a sense is a test year to see exactly how critical is DJ, how high impact of a defender is he, etc

So I think people need to view the big picture. Any thought of trading DJ isn't because he is bad or not useful to this team, or we don't like him (at least from my POV) but it is with the idea of whether he provides the best value at the position for this team.

Jamal is a similar case

It is the same with Jamal. He is actually good value, but Jamal is not a reliable enough offensive player which is why he isn't a star and this is especially evident in the post-season. The extra problem comes in that Jamal plays a good amount of minutes and in line with his game, uses a good amount of possessions. This makes it difficult as a team for him to disappear as a scorer and not be able to give substantial production as a passer, defender or glue guy. Teams are okay with that streakiness and one dimensional offensive. nature when a guy is a 15 MPG player, but it is hard for a 24 MPG guy.

For THIS team the problem is maximized by the fact that we also need a more balanced and two way player at the wing position and that the starting SG is primarily an offensive player himself. Jamal brings offense, but his offense is not as irreplaceable as people think because people think maintaining the same TEAM offensive production without him requires getting a player that averages the same amount of PPG or has the exact same abilities. Also his offense is not critical for this team to be a top 3 offense in the NBA. Maybe Jamal makes the difference between 3rd and 1st, but that isn't what is going to win us playoff series after the first round.

If Jamal can be moved for a guy that makes the difference between top 10 and top 5 in defense, a guy that can provide different and less volume, but also good offense and high level defense, that is a greater impact and value. Unlike offense, defensive presence and effort has a much greater ability to be consistent. A guy doesn't have to shut down every guy, but preventing you from having to double a player, allowing for example CP to get rest time on defense on a weak player, the off ball defense that takes away one extra basket a game in comparison to the average defender, that is the difference between winning and losing against the best teams, and you can have that consistently. Even when that guy goes 3-9 FG and 1-3 3PT, they can still impact a game at a high level.

In the playoffs, it's great that Jamal can explode for 26 pts in 27 minutes, but he's equally has likely to score 9 pts on 11 FGA or go a whole series and have only one actual good offensive game while having others where he scores points, but the value of the points in the grand scheme and to positive offense is questionable. The added problem is that he doesn't give you anything else. Then this is compounded by the fact that an Ariza or a shooter like that is similarly as likely to get hot and drop 30 pts and hit 6 there's, but he can also grab 8+ rebounds in 8/11 playoff games and play excellent defense in 11/11 games. Sure in the regular night he'll score less than a Jamal, but also attempt a lot less shots, and is less likely to hurt you offensively with bad shooting games.

...and I think what people think is that Jamal "has" to take the shots he takes, and it is needed for him to do so. While the offense makes it seem like that because he is on the team, and it is also built to accommodate him, what you will find is that when a player like him leaves, the team just spreads those extra shots in a different way and might not have any recognizable difference in team offensive production. When you have superstar level shot creators and a legitimate offensive system, you're not as reliant on a singular players isolation ability as one might assume (you need some isolation players, don't get me wrong).

uncool
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Hawes is a great value, and great insurance policy for the 2015 FA period. Whether DJ has a down year and we want to let him walk or do a S&T with him, or he has a great year and we can't afford him.

laboy
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the clips will probably try to sign dj to a long term deal and if he wants a lot more money..well doc can trade him before the trade deadline in early 2015..

he might be worth 13 mil a year...centers are hard to come by...

we can always be a team like the old bulls and go with 2 centers..

we have hawes ..and we can get a physical center..

the only reason to trade him now would be for lebron..

he is a good friend of blames...but the team has to do what it needs to get to the finals..

kjavis
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Agent that is all good, I'm just looking at how the team can improve to get over the hump. Out of the core of CP/BG/DJ, DJ to me is the most expendable with value if the right deal presents itself. Some of the reasons why i already mentioned above but lets look at results, this core has been together 3 seasons and yet to get out of the 2nd round, forget Finals we are not even close, we can't even get to WCF.

Other than Ibaka and to some extent Hibbet recent top contenders have had no need for athletic centers like DJ, hell Miami won back to back champs without even a legit center. But what all those teams do have are insanely athletic 2-way wings, KD(MVP), Lebron (MVP/Finals MVP), Paul George, Kawhi(Finals MVP). Currently we are 0/2 athletic wings.

mj_shoefanatic
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Nice pickup. Now lets find a capable starting SF and backup PF.

realbull17
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Clippers will have a press conference tomorrow for him & farmar.

No s&t for hawes. He signed his contract as well farmar.

ClippersDA
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We don't need another big, Hollins will do.

Jerediscool
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We don't have hollins

ClippersDA
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He'll sign for the minimum as usual

slestack11
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So does that mean Hawes will get our mid-level exception? So we have no more cap space to sign anyone now?

CapsNClips
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Sort of. We don't have the Full-MLE or the BAE anymore. So we can only acquire players now through a S&T or using the Vet Minimum.

ClipperKyle32
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This doesn't completely eliminate the possibility of a sign-and-trade for the Clippers however, it just means that it won't be involving Spencer Hawes. The team could still trade for another free agent. They....

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slestack11
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What's the veterans minimum? Is that like $2M per season? What are the odds Paul Pierce goes for that?

Clippersfan86
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Vet minimum is actually only like 1.5 million a year for players who have been in league more than 7 years or something like that and about 1.1 mill for younger players. Paul Pierce has already made asinine comments about how he wants to get 9-10 mill a YEAR for the next two years before retiring. Need to move on from him.

Clippersfan86
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Anyone ever see this? Super clutch Spencer Hawes.

Agent0
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I think we wait till the last second on this one and see what other big men could be available for the minimum before committing money and a roster spot to Hollins. He's a very non-critical player.

Some guys who might have been asking for too much early could end up being available for the minimum close to the start of training camp.

ClipperKyle32
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Anyone ever see this? Super clutch Spencer Hawes.

The 7 Foot JJ Redick :lol

Agent0
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Paul and Blake attracting players without even trying.

Yup, just like we would like it, no need to add another big to the general rotation unless there is injury or foul trouble. DJ can guard most PF's in terms of quickness, so there shouldn't be much issue playing them together. I like it.

PF: Blake (36 mins) / Hawes (12 mins)

C: DJ (32 mins) / Hawes (16 mins)

Blake 36 / DJ 32 / Hawes 28

I wouldn't mind a few less minutes for DJ so that when he is on the court he is maximally effective in terms of defensive rotations.

CP3Best
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I want more bigs off the bench though...

Agent0
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We're going to sign other bigs for insurance, but we should only have 3 bigs in the rotation. It maximizes having your best players on the floor at all times, and in the playoffs, big #4 isn't getting on the floor most nights anyways

Any good big man who the Clippers might pursuer would obviously understand the roster situation. Sometimes fans seem to say "get this player", but forget that players know teams rosters and one of the questions players ask is "what will my role be". So Ed Davis for example, young big with potential, his first choice isn't going to be to be the 4th big on the Clippers who already have 3 good big men, all considered by him. He's basically limiting his minutes unless there is injury to like 10 MPG. He's young he's still trying to establish himself in the league, and he's still trying to play well to get a good contract, so if you are him, do you go and be the Clippers 4th big or go to some team where there is space for you to play 20+ MPG, and even make more money?

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