Thabo Sefolosha Signs with Hawks, 3 Year $12 Million

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ClipperKyle32
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This would be nice. Where would he play? Are we trading a Shooting Guard?

uncool
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Source?

Agent0
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That's a move that I like. Thabo can play both SG and SF and he can defend to 1, 2 and 3. I think he would be a great fit.

tense2
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Yep, he'd be a perfect fit. Defense, defense.

Keep Redick, sell high on Jamal. Very Happy

uncool
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Thabo should be a bench player that we put out there when a wing player is lighting us up. His minutes shouldn't be high so he can focus on shutting a guy down. I would never want him to start over JJ, he can start at SF if we miss on Deng & Ariza & can't trade for a long wing.

namzug
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I'd love for Thabo to come in and start at the 2; but I'm kind of against him coming in and starting at the 3.

I'd like for him and PJ Tucker to be signed.

jarca
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Wouldn't mind seeing him in clippers uniform. But he shouldn't be in our top priorities. If we strike out on deng orariza then go after Thabo.

Clippersfan86
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Sefalosha for bi annual, Jordan Hill for most of MLE, Pierce for minimum and another wing for small part of MLE= Perfect offseason.

ClipperKyle32
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I FOUND CLIPPERSFAN86 ON TWITTER <3333 hahah

Clippersfan86
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ClipperKyle32 wrote:

I FOUND CLIPPERSFAN86 ON TWITTER <3333 hahah

Haha, hello. I've shared my Twitter before! Hit me up any time.

Clippers_FTW
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I'd much rather have Ariza or Deng but one thing is consistent.... We need some change

SamMays
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Sefolosha barely got off the bench in the playoffs. He's done.

CapsNClips
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Thabo: 104 Defensive Rating, 0.21 Defensive Win Shares, 3.0 Win Shares, 7.8 Rebound %, 8.3 Assist %, .517 True Shooting%, 10.4 PER

Barnes: 106 Defensive Rating, 2.0 Defensive Win Shares, 3.5 Win Shares, 9.3 Rebound %, 10.6 Assist %, .552 True Shooting %, 12 PER

So why are we so obsessed with Sefolosha?? About as overrated as they come.

MuteHaitian
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I don't k of about this one...

Dudley was the new Gomes, and I feel like Thabo will be the new Dudley. I think there's a reason he fell out of the rotation in OKC and barely got any burn in the playoffs.

Clippersfan86
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Sefalosha had a down year. He's a far more consistent defender than Barnes, despite the small sample suggesting he's only marginally better. Never mind that he's 29 or 30, not 34.

Icecoldclipper
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No to Thabo please we are better off with Barnes as a backup. Focus on bigs Doc and then get Pierce.

CapsNClips
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I'll take a 34 year old who hasn't shown any signs of regression in his career over a 30 year old who's game declined drastically, even in a contract year.

Thabo knows zero of our plays, he's never played with any of our players, can't hit 3's, and his defense is average.

It kinda defeats the purpose of signing a 3&D specialist who has neither the "3" or the "D"

Clippersfan86
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I think it's a bad idea to use his worst year where he was banged up all year as the sample is what I'm saying. He's BY FAR a better 3 point shooter than Barnes. The year before last when healthy he shot 42 percent from deep, 43 percent the year before that. On a per minute basis, healthy.. he's basically a younger, better 3 point shooting version of Barnes. Barnes wasn't even a huge problem overall. The main issue with him is his age, which prevents him from consistently putting together good games and his 3 point shooting.

Jerediscool
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Dudley had a down year too and everyone is ready to murder him. we might as well just keep our Dud rather than get a new one if you have that mind set

Clippersfan86
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Not comparable. Dudley was 100 percent trash. Barnes was not. Barnes was too old/slow to stay in front of talented wings consistently, Sefalosha isn't. Sefalosha has also become a very good 3 point shooter, as evidenced in his prior years to last season when healthy. If we can get him for bi annual exception of about 2.7 mill a year or whatever over say 2-3 years, it's a no brainer move/upgrade.

CapsNClips
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Thabo's career 3PT% is 34.8%. Not once in Sefolosha's career has he made more 3's than Barnes in any single season.

2 years ago was Thabo's best 3PT year where he made 108 3's. His 2nd best year he made 48 and that was last season when he shot 31%

Barnes best years he made 117, 111, 106 and last year made 97 3's while missing 19 games.

Barnes = Way better 3PT shooter.

CapsNClips
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Exactly, repped.

Billupsss
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I'm sorry but I really dislike Sefolosha. He had an awful season this previous season.

Clippersfan86
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Using made 3 pointers to correlate with efficiency isn't close to logical. Barnes has only once in his career shot better than league average from deep (36 percent). Thabo just passed that in back to back years. Nonetheless, even if both aren't the best 3 point shooters, Sefalosha IS indeed the better, more consistent defender and is almost 5 years younger. He's an upgrade, although not a big one. If he can be had for cheap, it's common sense.

If Doc can get Jamal Crawford at 33 to step his defensive game up big time, what do you think he will be able to do with a 29 year old who's already a gifted defender?

Jerediscool
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Its actually the exact same situation man. Dudley was always consistent before, came here injured and to of shape and had a bad year. Sefalosha isn't a good 3 pt shooter. Caps just proved that. Nothing about Sefalosha sounds like a good idea, except letting him sign with someone else. What if Dudley comes back this year and lights it up? I could be wrong, but if you take out last years numbers for Dudley and Sefalosha, Dudley probably has better career numbers.

Clippersfan86
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As I said above. Barnes wasn't even bad for us last year. His issue is come playoff time, he vanishes. The 3 point shot and D he was so solid at the second half of last season completely vanished in the playoffs. Due to probably his age in large part. If he had just carried his regular season play into the playoffs, we could of been in the WCF at the very least.

Clippersfan86
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I just think Sefalosha under Doc has a chance to be a truly terrifying defender. We've all seen him play D at an elite level in recent years under a mediocre coaching staff. Sefalosha definitely doesn't have flattering numbers to be sure. He's nothing but a perimeter defender and solid 3 point shooter. If Doc can get him to take his game to another level (which I believe he can and would), it would be a steal. Dudley offensively IS better, no question. The issue is we need way more defense, even at the sacrifice of offense. I think Dudley needs to go, Barnes can stay for all I care as a BENCH SF, not starter. I feel zero pity for Dudley. He went to his so called dream situation and STILL didn't dedicate himself enough to be in top shape for the season. He only has himself to blame.

Jerediscool
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Sefolsha disappeared so invisible n the playoffs that the coach couldn't even see him to put him in! Theres no reason to make changes just for changes sake. if the two players are even close you should go with the one you have for chemistry sake and knowledge of the system. (Unless the one player is a cancer or detrimental to the team)

Agent0
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I think part of the issue you see with Thabo is that the Thunder don't have a system that benefits role players. Thabo is a player who's skills would be better on a team with a set system, a SAS or a LAC. You know your spots, you know of you get open, shots will come to you. Why is Thabo helpful?

1) He can guard the 1-3 while Barnes for example is mainly just a SF defender

2) He's got good length, is a decent athlete and can move laterally

3) He can hit the corner three well, 39% 3PT over his last three seasons on 481 attempts

Thabo is also cheap, or should be. We are getting Thabo to be Redick's compliment / backup, at least I'd assume, not to replace Barnes.

Caps, individual defensive rating is not a very useful stat. I've spoke on this before, if you go look at how the stat is calculated, it doesn't mean what you might think it does. In addition, win shares are dependent on minutes. So if two guys produce the exact same when on the floor, but one plays 28 mpg and another 21 mpg, the guy with 28 mpg will have higher win shares because he's on the court more. At least compare win share so per 48 minutes, but it isn't a stat I have looked much into, so I don't know how it is calculated or what exactly it proposes to measure and how.

Still, why is it Thabo vs Barnes? We should be moving Crawford to upgrade and Thabo gives us a versatile defender at SG/SF/PG who can hit the corner three.

CapsNClips
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Trust me, you don't want to compare Barnes and Thabo in the playoffs.

Thabo's stats are EPICLY bad.

Go look at his playoff stats. That's not a player that is going to help us in the Playoffs.

Clippersfan86
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Like I said, Sefalosha was nursing injuries all of last year. I feel like Doc can get so much more out of the 29 year old Sefalosha than Scott Brooks. I think he can be our Tony Allen.

Clippersfan86
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He's a defensive specialist. I'm expecting pretty much zero offense, besides a three here and there. I'm 100 percent sure that he'd be a more consistent defender than any wing we have besides maybe CP3 under Doc.

Clippersfan86
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Remember guys. I'm not talking about using MLE on Sefalosha here. I'm saying he's worth a gamble at BAE at most (which is like 2.8 million) or minimum. This is purely because he's only 29 and I think Doc can boost his D quite a bit. He's not worth using any of the MLE on.

Agent0
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BAE is projected at $2.08M btw, not $2.8M.

Clippersfan86
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Can you see why I'd make that mistake? Lol. Nonetheless it's cheap. Not a big risk.

Agent0
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Oh definitely, lol, I was like he probably slightly read that wrong, but yes, not really anything crazy. It's what we used to sin Grant Hill for example.

Clippersfan86
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Smile thanks for correction though. I think Thabo is a low risk try here. We've seen that when locked in and healthy he can shut people down. Hell we've seen him lock CP3 up since he's been a Clipper. I think with Doc in his ear he will be extra motivated to be the stopper on this team and thrive. Something like BAE for 2 or 3 years seems very reasonable for a guy who will just be turning 30 around time the season starts.

CapsNClips
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Barnes can absolutely defend 1-3. He has never had much of an opportunity to guard the opposing teams PG's because ever since we've signed him we've had capable PG defenders like CP, Bledsoe and Collison

Why not just keep Dudley? He was a really good defender when he was on PHX. Both players had bad years last season. What makes Thabo more likely to regain his form than Dudley?

Dudley is younger and already on the books. No need to waste our BAE on Dudley 2.0

Clippersfan86
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If you think Sefalosha is Dudley 2.0, you haven't watched him very much.

CapsNClips
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Give me Marvin Williams any day over Sefolosha on offense and defense.

Both should command similar money. We'll see if a GM is dumb enough to fall for Sefolosha with Williams still available.

clipper*joe
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I like Thabo but I think we're overrating what positions he can guard. We've seen a lot of big players contain CP3 with success but does that mean those same players can guard other smaller PG's that have more speed than CP3 with success? By the same token, are they able to guard faster SG's with equal success? I think coaches do their due diligence when it comes match-ups. They know what players have a hard time playing against bigger players on them and in those situations, they might play those types of players in spurts, or when the offensive player is hot. Usually, it is never sustainable. I really don't put much merit on a player that can play many defensive positions only because it rarely happens on a consistent basis to make much difference. Unless he can play all three positions at once, he still has to guard one player. I'd much rather he guard his position and do a damn good job at it.

How often do you see LBJ, who is arguably the best two way player with the ability to guard anyone, guard out of position? And when he does, does it hurt the team more by him doing it? Does he switch to a smaller man and leave a smaller teammate on a big? Does it weaken the overall team defense when a switch like that is made? Thabo had some success against CP3 but he didn't always guard CP3 with success. And Thabo doesn't always guard him when we play. It's a situational thing that isn't sustainable.

Clippersfan86
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I have no issue with Williams but didn't he have a bad year? Two years ago I wanted him on the team badly, but didn't hear anything about him last year.

Clippersfan86
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Looks like offensively Marvin Williams was pretty nice, but awful on defense. Which again, we have plenty of offensive firepower. Now we need some defensive specialists on the wing.

Agent0
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I think Marvin has a higher price tag, but why do you keep thinking of Thabo as a SF? Thabo is a SG/SF who has enough lateral quickness combined with his length to guard PG's well. Our need for a guy like Williams is very dependent on what happens with our SF position, while Thabo still has value in backing up J.J. if we move Jamal to improve at another position.

clipper*joe, you're right that it is matchup dependent, and it also depends on the isolation skill level of the bigger player that the smaller player switches on to. Many teams are content with putting their best perimeter defender and adding extra length to guard a PG for example when the opposing team has a role player type guy who can't take advantage of mis-matches at SF or SG.

We saw it on our team, so we should know first hand. Despite teams putting bigger guys on Paul, due to our small SG's, and/or the inability of our SF's to consistently take advantage of smaller guys on them, the teams gained on defense and we gained nothing on offense to make up for it. We also would waste possessions trying to for example post-up Caron or Matty B on a guy who they have the height advantage on, but they don't score effectively enough and it ends up just taking us out of our offense.

It's about the option to make these switches when needed and when you can. We have been a team that didn't even have the option, but you want to have the option available. OKC didn't see the need to switch Thabo to Paul too much because our SG's are better and it's no longer resting Westbrook to switch him. Running around after J.J. isn't resting, and putting him on Barnes would mean Durant has to run after J.J. When we had Will Green or Randy Foye, they were much more willing because those guys were very low possession players and it was resting for Westbrook.

Golden State was extremely content to play Klay Thompson on CP for as much of the game as possible and put Curry on Barnes. Similarly a team like SA where both Green and Kawhi can guard the 1-3, they would be fine with switching the matchups, putting Parker on Matty B and having Green and Leonard guard CP and Redick or Crawford.

It's about having the option, not that against every team or every matchup we would just switch CP to someone else, but our current team doesn't have the option. Not only that, our current team can't make teams pay for switching a PG to our SF in order to put more length on CP, so we hurt both ways. Which does also make a guy like Pierce (or Vince) helpful because then the opposition can't switch because they will take advantage of the mis-match or a PG on them.

I don't think options should ever be seen as a thing we don't want to have. Those options give your team versatility against different types of opposing lineups where if you're a very static team, you can't adjust as well.

Agent0
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Generally the reason you put your SF on a PG is because his length and size would do a better job at containing the player or for example, to rest a star PG on a role player and let a guy doing less on offense expend the defensive energy. We never put Barnes on PG's, despite playing teams who had some SF's that wouldn't do anything with the mis-match against Paul, there's a reason for that and it isn't because Paul's defense is so good that we couldn't possibly not play him on a guy.

What makes you think Barnes can guard the 1-3? I'm curious. He's already a step slow at SG. Dudley is a year younger than Thabo, nothing significant or worth mentioning. Dudley wasn't a really good defender on Phoenix, I remember someone had thought I said this when we signed him. Dudley is an average to above average defender at his best, he was an improvement as I felt Caron was a slightly below average defender but that is at SF. Dudley has always been a below average defender at SG because of his lack of foot speed and you don't put him on PG's deliberately.

I still see the idea of signing Thabo is to get J.J. a backup that compliments the skills he lacks if we move Jamal for improvement so where else, but you are still comparing him to our SF's as if they can play that role, they really can't.

kjavis
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not a bad idea, definitely upgrade on defense and this will put JJ on the bench where i feel is best, then we can look to move either JJ or JC in a deal for a good player at SF

Agent0
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Benching J.J. would depend on who our SF was. If we started a Pierce at SF, okay, we could do it, but a role player SF, no. I wouldn't just automatically bench him. I'd also be more confident with J.J. on the bench if we had a backup PG like Shaun who is very committed to running the offense, but I don't know with Darren sometimes.

kjavis
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ye i can see Sebo thriving under doc, he can be our version of danny green

CapsNClips
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Sure, Sefolosha "could" be better in a system like ours or San Antonio, but aren't we done signing hopefuls?

Byron Mullens = Hopeful

Stephen Jackson = Hopeful

Big Baby = Hopeful

Thabo Sefolosha = Hopeful

I don't think at 30 years old Thabo is going to have his game completely enhanced by a coach. At 30 years OLD he is what he is.

The only "Hopeful" type player I want us to sign is Ed Davis.

kjavis
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ye true except Livingston is going to gdubs

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