Thabo Sefolosha Signs with Hawks, 3 Year $12 Million (P. 2)

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kjavis
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30 is considered prime for some players, anyways its easier to hone on the skills of a defense minded player than offensive production, any points from Thabo will be considered a bonus

fullcourt
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Go big or go home this is all treading water with players who are not even guaranteed upgrades.

This would be the exact same thing as grabbing Dudley and ignoring his stank and believing just because we get him it would turn to gold.

Thabo is a bench player to obtain him for any role other than that is ridiculous.

Agent0
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What's hopeful about it though, he can still play good defense and he shot >40% the previous two seasons from 3PT range, 39.5% his last 3 seasons. One bad shooting season doesn't mean he's declining. He's in his prime for about another 2-3 years.

Jackson and Mullens were terrible players. We aren't expecting Thabo to become a new player, we're expecting him to do what he did the two previous season, which is what he's already done, but he's more likely to do it because the system is more conducive to his success (of course if he gets injured, we can't really control that, is he injury prone?)

What was wrong with Davis? He played like himself.

Mullens has never had a season where he was good, actually not even average or below average, just bad every single year.

Jackson had averaged 37.4% FG and 27.9% 3PT the two seasons before we signed him. He was a player who never worked out in the off-season and didn't realize that it catches up to you when you are older to just eat and drink and not work out. If he played up to his par of his previous two seasons he would still by everything objective be a bad player. He was signed out of desperation due to injury. A 35 year old who isn't working out, isn't in shape, was horrible his past two seasons and wasn't even in the league and a perennially bad player who Doc thought he could make somehow good vs a guy who has done the same thing for three + seasons and had a bad shooting year but still defended well which is mainly what we want anyways.

I don't understand those comparisons tbh.

Agent0
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The opposite happened, Dudley was shining and then came to us and sucked, so it doesn't really work as a comparison.

Dudley actually had a great year for a role player the season before we signed him.

CP3Heliflopter
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If we can get him for cheap I don't see why not. I like Barnes but he is too old. Yes Thabo had a down year but he was injured and he is a lot younger than Barnes.

CapsNClips
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It's hopeful to say Sefolosha will get back to his old self.

Unless you are content with getting Sefolosha being who he was last season, it's wishful thinking to assume a player who's offense completely left his game and his defense was average at best.

Sefolosha was so bad last season.

His situation reminds me of Gerald Wallace's. Gerald had a great defensive season in Charlotte and then went to the Blazers and his defensive took a huge drop off and I'm sure many teams thought he'd pull it together, but nope his defense and offense died.

Sefolosha's offense and defense is dead and people are hoping for a revival.

ClipperKyle32
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You have to take everything into context here with Sefo. He wasn't in a system that fit him honestly. Do You know who the coach is for the Thunder? He relies on KD and Westbrook so....

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fullcourt
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Dudley was garbage before we grabbed him I pointed this out last summer but everyone was too busy trying to run Crawford out of town over analyzing his tweets to care. Dudley was never anything more than a 20 mpg guy who played in a good three point chucking system so his percentages were decent but he wasn't a starter before we got him. He benefitted from the situation in Phoenix and we simply confirmed what most general managers already knew last year.

Agent0
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Whatever you say man

CapsNClips
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How is their system not made for role players?

Reggie Jackson is one of the best bench scorers and backup PG's in the league. Steven Adams was amazing as a rookie big man and played a huge role in their success. Kendrick Perkins almost single handedly shut DJ down in the Playoffs. Nick Collison is arguably the best role player of the last 5 or 6 years. Butler and Lamb were both great for the thunder this year

ClipperKyle32
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Reggie was in the same role as Westbrook. When he was in either ISO or get out of Durant or Westbrooks way. Adams was great , but most of his points came from doing the....

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Agent0
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Our system or SA's system has certain reads for a role player. A high pick and roll with CP and Blake, Blake rolls and gets the ball, the defense converges, you know that Blake's two primary reads are a pass to the opposite corner shooter or a lob to DJ. As that corner shooter (many times Barnes), you build a rhythm to that read and others that flow out of the offense. The ryhtmn helps to promote consistency.

This doesn't mean that you should shoot poorly without such a set up, but a set-up like that helps to promote consistency and makes a players role more defined. They understand that of they make the right reads and get to the right spots, they will get certain shots just out of the flow of the offense.

Thabo isn't a bad shooter, but OKC doesn't have an offense set up with specific reads like that. So when a shooter like Thabo starts off struggling, their system isn't one that is able to build a ryhtmn for them, their shots come at the whim of Durant and Westbrook.

That was Thabo's issue this season, but in addition to that, OKC starts Thabo AND Perkins, and despite being good, Ibaka isn't a creator and in the post-season was only giving them 12 PPG in 34 mpg. So essentially they were running a starting lineup with three players who score at the level of below average scorers. In their starve for more offense, and with the emergence of Reggie Jackson, it just made sense for them to play him more in favor of Thabo as well as Butler who wasn't necessarily good in he playoffs, but better than Thabo on offense.

It sucked for Thabo, but it isn't really that condemning, it's all about fit, and if they had a C that wasn't offensively inept, and at least a guy who in the playoffs could still give 16-17 PPG at PF, they aren't as worried about whether or not Thabo is scoring and can even overlook some shooting woes.

ClippersDA
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I'm all for thabo. We need to be better defensively on perimeter and I agree that playing with unselfish stars will help his offense. Maybe we can sign collison for bi-annual exception, sefolosha for part of the midlevel, another backup big like ed Davis for the other part. And somehow trade Crawford, bullock, barnes/Dudley and a first rounder for a starting 3. The first rounder might help and the other contracts aren't horrible.

Clippers_FTW
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accedently put this in the paul pierce thread.

Clippers_FTW
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I like his length and athleticism

ClippersDA
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How much do people think it will cost for his services?

Clipperfan9
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anything more than vet's min isn't worth it, especially after that dismal shooting season he put together last year.

ClipperKyle32
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Honestly relatively cheap. They way the season ended in OKC for him value went down. Which is a reason we should get him because it will be relatively cheap. Who knows maybe he can play....

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Agent0
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To be real, Ariza is most likely going back to Washington. Pierce is probably our best bet, we can also see how much Marvin will cost us.

Why would Memphis take on $4.2M of Dudley when Davis is a FA though? Do they want Dudley?

ClipperKyle32
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They need more shooting, they are trying to shop Prince. Mike Miller and Dudley provide them with some shooting and they try to play D

ClipperKyle32
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Dudley got posted up by Sefo. Yeea. Dudley wasn't that good. Capable. I like Sefo's length and defense and that is what we need

ClipperKyle32
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Yea. I think He could be good for us as a good role player and defensive specialist in the wing. Which is what we need. I can't believe just because we can't get Melo , or....

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TheDude
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Like this as much as anything because he's going to be good value at the price. Type of player we currently lack and also a good compliment to either Jamal or JJ. Very possible to sign him for under 2mil..

Somebody who can guard and hit open shots but also gives us flexibility to include redick or jamal in a trade for a SF. As long as it's not too much money, thabo would be a good solution to some of our problems.

toohipcliptoslip
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To quote Mr Spock after he porked that Romulan bi*ch

"I too was moved - emotionally"

Clippers_FTW
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The more I think about it the more I like it.. .

Clippers_FTW
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He's 6'7 (2 inches taller than Jamal). Has good weight on him.. and he is a good defender that can defend the 2 and 3. Athletic and can hit the 3. I'd be down with him starting at 3... would rather him start at 2 (more length) but what ev's

toohipcliptoslip
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The real problem has yet to be addressed. We're arguing over which SF bench player we want. Actually I was hoping to start Livingston at SF - BUT-.

Barnes Sefalsoa it really doesn't matter that much. We don't need both. Dudley wasn't bad at the end of the year. He played like a $2.5 mil role player. Collison's going to cost $3mill. We can't trade Jamal yet because there still is no bench scoring with Collison gone. We still have our thumbs up our as*es. The best SF's out there are Pierce, Deng and Ariza. The last two have vanished like Dudley's talent. Bullock is a SG. A trade of Dudley for Mahinmi was mentioned. Who would want Dudley?

The problem is our only tradable assets are Crawford and JJ. We're dead without them. We get Sefa then we trade Barnes?? For a decent back up center we'll pay $3 mill MINIMUM. I've always been for signing Hedo at minimum. He's a good playmaker off the bench. If Sefa could play #4 heaven but he can't.

This is a tempest in a teapot. We don't have a long player who can at least think about guarding Durant and we don't have a fast player to guard Bledsoe and we don't have a strong aggressive defender except BG and he has short arms. Pierce's defense will be spotty at best.

Bench:

Jamal

Some long, strong, young MF who can play 2 or 3. Where's Corey when we need him!

Barnes or Sefa

Hedo can play some point forward.

Mahinmi

Young combo guard

Jamal

M or T

Hedo

Mahinmi

Pierce at SF. If BG works his jumper that's an offensive juggernaut

Too hip 3:16 We need 1 or a 2 who can score. We don't have a lot of options. I find it interesting that we're thinking about Delonte West. Unfortunately a knucklehead usually continues to be a knucklehead but Agent 0 grew up. Vets min? Save $1.5 over Collison. Hedo played a lot of PF. I think mostly.

ClippersDA
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Sefolosha is a much much much better defender than barnes and a better shooter. I'll take sefolosha for 2-3 million over barnes. Barnes has this reputation as a stopper but he really isn't. Sefolosha has phenomenal instincts and still has some toughness. He is a stopper.

clipper*joe
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Agent0
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Well, well, maybe Washington is seeking a backup option if they can't sign Ariza. They do still have Martell Webster as well as Otto Porter.

That doesn't necessarily give us a leg up as the Lakers still have ties with him too and can offer more money, and it is the same city.

ClipperKyle32
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Collison - Gone

Sefolosha - Gone

So what's next?

Agent0
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Our signing of Sef was pending moving Jamal, so for one the pieces likely didn't move fast enough, and secondly we likely wouldn't have offered enough money. The surprise of the off-season is that most players end up getting more money than you believe your team should pay them.

Dunkathon
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ClipperKyle32 wrote:

Collison - Gone

Sefolosha - Gone

So what's next?

Good on Thabo to get massively overpaid.

Next? Maybe Wilson Chandler?

Jerediscool
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That's the best news I've heard all off season

kjavis
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Free agents dropping like flies now, *tick* *tock* *tick* *tock*

Billupsss
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I don't see why everybody wanted Sefolosha so bad anyways. The dude is overrated, very inconsistent, and looking at the contract he got he wanted a big payday.

Agent0
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He didn't have to want a big payday, Atlanta just offered it.

Billupsss
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If that's the case, then the Hawks must be dumb. He wasn't going to turn that down for anything the Clippers would offer.

Jerediscool
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Who, in their "prime" (if that is what you want to call Sefolosha right now), doesn't want a big pay day?

Agent0
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I don't know, but he didn't even have to want one since Atlanta just went ahead and gave it to him as they seemingly outbid themselves there. I don't suspect the market for him was that high, then again, the early overpaid FA signings can have a ripple effect on the contracts that follow.

Who knows, but whatever, good for him, go get your money where you can. Seems like Portland might have also outbid themselves as I don't think there were teams lining up to offer Kaman that much money, but if you aren't going to use the money anywhere else, then it is worth it to lock up a free agent you want with a contract that isn't too lengthy if they are overpaid on a yearly basis.

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