Should the Clippers Resign DeAndre Jordan to a New Contract? (P. 2)

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SamMays
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Of course we should resign him. With the way the salary cap works, now that we are over the limit, we can resign our own players, but can't add new players for anything other than the veterans minimum. If DJ goes, who replaces him? The only way we can let him go is in a trade if Doc feels the mix will give us a better chance to win it all by adding (I would assume) a small forward and going with Hawes in the pivot. I kind of doubt Doc is thinking this way, but it is the only way it might make sense to move him.

The reality is we need to keep our core of DJ, Blake and Paul together and hope it's enough.

Last year we were the third best team in the league. We need to do what Utah did back in the 80's and early 90's and stick with them. The main guys stay and you make moves around them. They had their chance but fell short. That's all you can ask.

The difference between us and them is that Malone and Stockton had peaked. They weren't getting better. Of our big three, only Chris Paul has peaked. DJ and Blake still have room to improve.

I think for the next three or four years, barring injury, we have to be looked at as a realistic threat to win it all. There are not likely any moves out there that would make us more than that.

In the west, San Antonio isn't getting any younger, though we have been waiting for them to fade for the last five years. At some point they actually will. OKC is very good, but still very beatable. We could get to the championship series this year.

Then it looks like Cleveland or Chicago. Either of those teams can be beaten unless Cleveland comes together in a unique way.

For thirty years, we have been waiting to get to this position. We're here. Let's enjoy it.

GhostShip
Clipper All-Star
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If he takes a deal that benefits the clippers then do it. Otherwise wait and see how Hawes plays out. He is a very good center could start for a lot of teams. His contract is a great deal compared to DJs.

CapsNClips
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It's actually pretty crazy to think we'd be a better team with Gortat.

sz123456
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I'm all for the guy that can run and jump and has no other basketball skills yet, I just prefer Gortat in the short term.

CapsNClips
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Yep, all DJ does is run and jump...except for when he's anchoring our defense, talking on defense, blocking shots, leading the league in rebounding, leading the league in FG%, bailing out Blake on double teams by catching his passes, never missing games (literally).

He's basically a bum besides all those things.

sz123456
Clipper All-Star
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By far the most significant thing you referenced is "anchoring the defense". We had the best 3 point defense in the league, our offense was fantastic, and yet we lost in the 2nd round. Part of me blames that on the game 5 call, but really it was our interior defense getting obliterated and Serge Ibaka and Steven Adams looking like all-stars

CapsNClips
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And Gortat would've done what to fix this?

clipfan63
Clipper Rookie
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Of course we should resign him!If anyone thinks this team is going very far with Hawes as our rim protector better think again.Hawes is a solid backup with a respectable shot be he doesn't provide much as a rim protector nor is he overly impressive in the rebounding department.Most definitely an improvement over Glen Davis but starting center material he's most definitely not.KD and Westbrook would have a dunk fest whenever we played them.

clipfan63
Clipper Rookie
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votes: 0

Gortat sucks always injured and on the wrong side of 30.Do you really think his injury issues are going to improve with age.Don't know why some of these people think we should trade a 25 year old Ironman for some ancient washed up old Dinosaur that spends more time on the bench injured (Garnett,Gortat)than they do on the court playing

Jerediscool
Clipper All-Star
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Repped High Quality Post

PLEEEEEASSSE for the love of all things Clippers can we please not get fooled into thinking Lebron or Durant is coming here???? Lebron said today that he is NEVER leaving Cleveland. Durant has basically said that if he leaves OKC it will be to go home and play for the Wiz. Please, I beg of you real Clipper fans, can we please not bring this up ever again? It clutters the board up and makes you sound like Laker fans when you expect these dudes to come play with us. Just please don't do it, for yourselves, and for ClipperNation.

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
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votes: 44

You said if we had Gortat we would have won the championship already, I responded to that. You stated it as a fact, so I mean what did you expect? If you state it as a fact you're saying just adding Gortat made as clearly above all those teams.

clipper*joe
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What? Considering Hawes can actually spread the floor, he takes in 8.3 rebounds a game/30 minutes. DJ averaged 13.4 a game/35 minutes playing underneath the basket with nothing else to worry about. Clippers were a bad team protecting the paint so is DJ a rim protector? DJ is the best rebounder in the league and i am fine with that but lets not get carried away here. Hawes' game is well rounded unlike DJ's game. They both bring something different but we've already seen what DJ does in the playoffs when he has to play against a center. Not some undersized, out of position player. In case you forgot, the last two times we played the Grizz in the playoffs, we had to put BG on Gasol cause DJ couldn't handle him.

clipfan63
Clipper Rookie
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Our paint defense was poor at times last year.You can thank Glen Davis and Ryan Hollins for that.Jordan was #3 in blocked shots,he didn't achieve that stat by being a weak paint protector.I'll bet Hawes didn't crack the top 15.Hawes was a solid pickup,better on offense than Jordan but much weaker on defense and rebounding.He's fine in a backup role but please don't try and tell me that he would be better in the starting role than Jordan.

CP3Heliflopter
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Largely due to our putrid wing defense not DJ.

TheDude
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Hawes is a great insurance policy if Doc decides to pay max to a SF instead of a C. Overall, we could be better if we got a top 10 SF in an S&T for DJ next summer. Whether that opportunity arises, who knows.

danielson
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 39
votes: 0

I don't get people wanting to resign DJ. Outside of rebounding he's a liability. Go after Marc Gasol first. Anyone who signs DJ for 10 mill plus will be making a big mistake

fray_27
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 173
votes: 3

I like how some of the people on here saying oh let's not resign DJ he's no good but yet DJ proves them wrong. I say resign DJ if that was DJ under Doc for a couple months I can't wait to see what DJ is going to bring this season.

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
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danielson wrote:
I don't get people wanting to resign DJ. Outside of rebounding he's a liability. Go after Marc Gasol first. Anyone who signs DJ for 10 mill plus will be making a big mistake
Do we actually have the money for that?

$10M would be a GREAT contract for DJ. The salary cap is going up, in two seasons, $10M/year would be the equivalent of paying about $8M/year for a player right now, so for a team it is best to sign guys to longer contracts with the current salary cap right now as opposed to signing players later. For players, signing shorter contracts is advantageous. $10M is less than what DJ is currently making.

Quote:
"Under no circumstance would the cap drop, with the cap very likely to move substantially higher -- perhaps another $20 million beyond the current $63 million," Billings said. "There is always risk of injury or general physical decline, but there's little doubt that average salaries will be higher after this new TV deal."

http://www.ibtimes.com/nba-free-agency- ... rs-1630192

Gasol currently makes $15.8M, DJ $11.4M, now before we start saying crazy things like "oh we can just sign and trade", Memphis will not facilitate us getting Gasol. Salary cap next year is not known, but let us say $64M. Without DJ's contract, we are about $4M below the cap. We have non-guaranteed contracts of Jamal ($5.7M), Barnes ($3.5M) and Bullock ($1.3M). Farmar ($2.1M) and Dudley ($4.3M) have player options which they will probably pick up. If we don't pick up the options of Jamal and Barnes, and assuming they are fully non-guaranteed, we would have about $12.2M under the cap to sign FA's (that is if we have renounced DJ's cap hold which will be like $13-14M).

Does Gasol take a pay cut and leave the team he's been on for his whole career to come to the Clippers? There's really no reason why as of right now, there's no ties here, nothing.

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
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Are there 10 good enough SF's out there?

Possibly available SF's:

Jeff Green ($9.2M player option)

Thaddeus Young ($9.7M player option)

Rudy Gay (previous contract $19M)

Wilson Chandler ($7.1M team option)

Anyone there strike you as someone to trade DJ for...

Then of course we'd need an adequate MLE third big man who is in the mold of a rebounding / shot blocking C. Not too sure who is available. Denver probably doesn't pick up Chandler for $7.1M. Better off re-signing DJ and then trying to get a guy like Chandler for the MLE thought I don't really think it will be a successful endeavor based on what players similar to him get. Probably need like $8M, but you never know.

CapsNClips
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I remember when people were complaining about how unfair it was that the Rockets could potentially keep Parsons without it affecting their offseason options or OKC being able to have 3 star players, but when our young star player is available for a new contract everybody just wants to throw him aside and pray for "better" players.

Hint: OKC, SAS, GSW, CHI..etc didn't get better by gambling their prospects away in hopes for a "better" player.

Look at Indiana. Lance isn't the best SG in the league, but now that he's gone the Pacers are going to regret it big time.

I don't want to lose DJ on the off chance that Gasol is going to take an $8mil/year paycut for us.

clipfan63
Clipper Rookie
Posts: 51
votes: 0

Forget Gasol he's entering dinosaur status,he's already declining.His injury problems last year are just the beginning.Has anyone ever seen injury issues improve with age,I sure haven't.

CapsNClips
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He's 29 and has been fairly healthy throughout his career. I think you've got the wrong Gasol.

Icecoldclipper
CTB MVP X2
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Why would Marc take any form of a payvut? He is going to demand max .

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
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He wouldn't, and especially not just to randomly join the Clippers. The only way we'd get him is if we offer more money than Memphis (which we can't) and if there's some issue with the relationship between him and Memphis where at least one of the parties loses interest in the other. Memphis just saved $6.5M each year in Randolph's extension ($10M/year from a $16.5M contract next year). They can split those savings between Marc and Conley who expire after 14/15 and after 15/16 respectively. They'll likely give Marc his max, maybe $17-18M and Conley like $14-15M.

About Marc declining:

40-19 with Gasol

10-13 without Gasol

How's that for declining. Also career high pts/minutes and tying his career high PPG. Career games played:

82/82

69/82

81/82

65/66

80/82

59/82

Last season was the first time he's missed any significant amount of games. Declining and injury prone don't look like good descriptive words at the moment.

CP3Heliflopter
CTB MVP X2
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On the market DJ is easily worth the max. 14m/yr would be a fair deal though he can definitely get more. I think he is willing to take a slightly lesser contract to stay on the Clips.

bballman
Clipper Starter
Posts: 303
votes: 2

We all know the main reason the Clippers matched his last contract is because he is Blake's buddy. Hopefully,will realize that and take a discount this time around. (Wishful thinking).

CapsNClips
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I'd be open to giving DJ $14mil, but no matter how much we pay him the contract needs to have incentives.

Maybe do what the Bulls did and give him $500,000 if he wins DPOY or if he makes All-Defensive 1st team.

DJ needs motivation, and money talks.

GPack17
Clipper D-League Pickup
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votes: 0

here's the thing. should doc choose to get a small forward, as long as we are not paying a max to a guy we should be able to sign a legit small forward and then be able to go over the cap to resign deandre.

loyalclipfan
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I'm with you on this! I say keep this core together as long as dj's agent doesn't ge t greedy! 14 mil sounds about right in today's nba pricing. And for those of you who....

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ClipperDB
Clipper Starter
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DJ's biggest weakness that is scary, because it isn't getting any better, is his foul shooting. I wish he would get incentive for hitting over 60%. I am still convinced if he went to Rick Barry and learned how to shoot underhanded foul shots, he would improve.

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
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In order to maintain his bird rights which allow us to go over the cap to sign him / sign him while over the cap, DJ has to have a cap hold. I believe cap holds are 120% of current salary. The Collective Bargaining Agreement controls for the possible loophole of signing outside free agents with cap space then using bird rights to re-sign your own free agents after going over the cap.

In order to sign an outside free agent we would have to renounce DJ. Obviously we wouldn't really want to do that.

ClipperPostman
Clipper All-Star
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Of course you resign DJ it's a no Brainer. Unfortunately there is no doubt in my mind there will be teams who throw the max at DJ if he improves this season into the defender we all know he can be. DJ will be DPOY at least twice in his career. What DJ accomplished last year was at the young age of 25. Noah won his first DPOY at 29.

The sad reality is we probably won't be paying enough to keep Jordan so he will be gone next season.

Agent0
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I doubt Doc won't be paying enough attention, and I wonder what DJ's max is.

ClipperPostman
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Doc won't be paying enough attention? Lost me.

But I don't think we'll be paying DJ enough money next season.

Agent0
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Sorry, lol. The max for a player with 7-9 years experience was $16.4M last season. So yes, we would definitely benefit from giving DJ an extension if we want to keep him as opposed to letting the market decide.

Teams that as of right now could potentially poach him away with a max deal:

Atlanta Hawks

Boston Celtics

San Antonio

Milwaukee Bucks*

Orlando Magic*

Philadelphia 76ers*

Toronto Raptors*

*means they already have a C. Milwaukee (Larry Sanders), Orlando (Nikola Vucevic), 76ers (Embiid / Noel), Raptors (Valanciunas). San Antonio is the random one, but they don't have much committed in contract, and even after giving Leonard a max, they will still have good room. I'd expect them to go after a different level of free agent though, or who knows, maybe Duncan and Manu return. 76ers, Raptors and Bucks don't make much sense. Orlando is on the fence as Nikola is not an anchor type defender, that could affect things . Atlanta has been looking for a C to pair with Horford so he can play PF, so who know. Boston probably would be quite content with a player like DJ.

laboy
Clipper 6th Man
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if he is looking for 16 mil a year...

he better have an offensive post up move or 2..

saw him with a hook shot in the playoffs...

if he has no move...we should not pay him more than 12...

we can trade him for a young center and a pic...or for a good small forward..

but we have time...february 2015

ClipperPostman
Clipper All-Star
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He actually has a post-up move that is getting better. Unfortunately since he has no plays called for him he never gets a chance to develop it in game. But go watch the replay of that Mavs game where he beasted. We called many plays for DJ in the post and he was dominating.

Trade him for a young center and a pick? How will that help us win championships now? Trade him for a good small forward? The only SF's good enough to be traded for DJ are players teams definitely aren't trading IE Lebron, Melo, Leonard, PG... Those are game changers at SF. To pick up a 12ppg SF who plays decent defense is a waste if you trade DJ because we might as well play Dudley and barnes for that. Then we lack a Backup big of the bench once we move Hawes to starting Center, which I do not like whatsoever BTW.

Blake and Hawes on the court together for long periods is a bad idea for interior defense.

ClipperPostman
Clipper All-Star
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Boston and Atlanta make the most sense. Boston would love to have a young athletic center since they are in rebuilding stage with young pieces. Atlanta would be the perfect fit IMO, DJ and Horford would probably make the best front court in the league honestly.

clipfan63
Clipper Rookie
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We need to hold on to our core players who now have a season of Doc's system under their belts.Now's not the time to experiment with bringing in different core players that would have to learn from the beginning all over again.That would be the most ridiculously stupid move we could make.

clipfan63
Clipper Rookie
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Forget Marc Gasol,he's just like his brother.He's all offense little defense.Last season he was ranked 19th in blocked shots,not a very impressive stat,especially considering that his older brother widely considered the worst rim protector in the league finished 11th.We have enough offense,what we need is more defense.

Agent0
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The actual problem here is the thought that blocked shots equals defense. Memphis was 40-19 with Gasol and 10-13 without, it wasn't because he plays no defense. He won DPOY, he anchored a top 3 defense that year with a below average defender at best and non rim protector in Randolph as his front court partner.

The defense Memphis played vs OKC both with their perimeter guys and the help and rotations of their bigs was night and day in comparison to the Clippers.

So no, Gasol isn't a non defender. Gasol is a good two way C, but we should forget about him because we aren't getting him, not because somehow blocks is now the indicator of how well you are defending.

Also there's no way Pau Gasol is "widely" considered the worst room protector in the league when a guy like Pekovic and Vucevic are starting C's in the league.

danielson
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 39
votes: 0

If blocked shots equaled great defense than Jevale McGee would be a beast. DJ isn't worth the max money for the simple fact he is no longer gonna finishing games. That spot is now reserved for Hawes

MunoValente
Clipper Starter
Posts: 413
votes: 8

Pau played very good defense when the Lakers won their titles with him, his Memphis teams were generally good defensively as well. His problem now is that he's kind of slow, but he's still long and smart. Marc isn't far removed from winning DPOY, for a team that was one of the best defensive teams in the league and sent us packing in the 12/13 playoffs, he's like Pau, but stronger and faster at this point his career. Saying he can't defend is pretty much crazy talk.

Jordan is an ok defender, he used to be kind of bad; when he's completely on top of his game mentally he's very good defensively, but he still struggles with consistency, he still upside defensively. He is however already an elite rebounder on both sides of the floor, a very good transition player, elite at the basket finisher and very fit and durable. Someone will offer him a max deal and we'll offer just as much because we can go over the cap keep him unlike any possible replacements. Maybe we can get a small discount by offering a longer deal.

CP3Best
CTB MVP X2
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votes: 12

Yup. They just give DPOY to players who don't play defense...

ClipperPostman
Clipper All-Star
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Really? You have Doc's gameplan? What else is in there?

clipfan63
Clipper Rookie
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Did you watch last season?He was not DPOY last season,it was the previous year.He benefits from playing on a good defensive team,his individual defensive a bility is nothing special.Never said that a shot blocker alone is enough,you still have to put a decent defense around him.That's where our team came up short last year.Jordan did a great job defending the rim and rebounding be he's still only one player,nobody can do it alone.Every time Davis came in last year paint protection and rebounding went right out the window.Without those extra rebounds and all those blocked shots this team wouldn't have had anywhere near the season that they had

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4411
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DJ just needs to continue to improve his fundamentals on defense. He does a lot of things well. He is quite mobile, he rebounds outside of his area, he can recover well and make big plays, he is explosive off the ground, and he has really accepted the role and has become a better student of defense.

Some things that will further help him progress:

1) Be more consistent with his defensive stance so he doesn't get beat on the perimeter due to being too upright, needs to be lower more often

2) Continue to improve his positioning and reads against offenses and especially against the pick and roll - this one gets him a bit, but it's not easy

3) Put more priority on playing defense before his man gets the ball when guarding the post

4) Be better about playing defense with his feet

His ceiling is to be a very high impact defensive player and he still has room to get there

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4411
votes: 44

You just backtracked from saying his blocked shots showed him as playing "little defense" to now saying "did you watch last season". So you're telling us that from 12-13 to last season, Gasol went from DPOY to playing "little defense".

Hmm....

clipfan63
Clipper Rookie
Posts: 51
votes: 0

Things can change a lot from one season to the next,last season Jordan was unrecognizable compared to his pitiful performance the previous season.Sometimes people improve sometimes they play worse.Last season Marc Gasol's performance dropped considerably in comparison to his DPOY season.Granted injuries were no doubt a factor,but the fact remains that Marc Gasol's performance was nowhere near the level of the previous season.

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4411
votes: 44

Interesting, but why was his defense worse, what did he do worse? Also in line with the season to season fluctuation you speak of, if that is true, wouldn't he be just as likely to play like a DPOY next year and DJ just as likely to go back to pitiful performance?

I don't believe that, but I mean with that line of thinking...

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