Time To Blow This Team Up?

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Benoit_Benjamin
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 118
votes: 6

Ok Clipper fans, it's time to ask what we do next. This team has been underachieving all year long. The team lacks chemistry and is, in fact, slowly falling apart. Not only have Corey Maggette and James Singleton complained about playing time and asked to be traded, but now one of the leader's of the team is starting to jump ship. After the Atlanta loss, Sam Cassell had an interesting comment.

Sounds like Dumbleavy has some major problems. These kinds of problems didn't exist last year. Cassell didn't make comments like these last season when things were going good. If the Clippers keep losing then the chemistry issues are only going to worsen.

So what do we do? The team has resisted any possible moves thus far. Instead of shaking things up when team problems became evident, they decided to be patient. Well, patience has continued to produce mediocrity. Instead of an Allen Iverson or Ron Artest infusion, the Clippers stood pat, hoping that the team would pull out of their funk. Well, it hasn't happened and it can be argued, with all the recent comments out of the team, that things are worse now.

It's past time to do something major. Donald Sterling isn't going to fire Dunleavy to produce a necessary shakeup, so the coach is staying. That means that Maggette has to go...for whatever we can get. The team may even have to come to the conclusion that, if they are committed to keeping Livingston, Cassell has to go too. A team in need of a veteran point guard (Cleveland, Miami,???) would definitely take Sam. Maybe they could package Maggette and Cassell for somebody like Mike Bibby or Jason Kidd.

Maybe this whole thing is the Cassell Curse. Remember, after leading the Timberwolves to the playoffs in his first year there, the team failed to make the playoffs in his second year, which was filled with descension. Hopefully I'm wrong about this. But I don't think I'm wrong that this team needs to make changes now!

david
Site Admin
Posts: 8492
votes: 42

I wouldn't go that far- Sam probably said that out of frustration. I don't see how he has much of a beef though with those stats and the way he was shooting lately. In fact it seemed that the Clippers might've been better off if Dunleavy had held him out longer and put in Ross instead.

Maggette & Cassell for Bibby or Kidd sound interesting but too expensive for the Clippers. Bibby can opt out after this season and Kidd is already 33.

seasonticketholder10
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 36
votes: 1

Cassssel Curse LOLLLLL ,,,,,,,,,he reversed the curse......in that first game he played with us in atlanta........

cassel second year was injured ......breathing out of a oxygen tank......with the timberwolves....

ok i soooo dissapointed in you guys.......TRADE SAM CASSEL.......are you guys crazzy,,,,,,,First off unless we give shawn for kidd its not happening.......there already in the hunt for gasol......

OK ......Blow up the Team.....is sounding like an old clipper loser.......you want to start over again.....

what needs to happen is we need to work with FACTS.....

FACT ....Phili wanted shawn for iverson...dumleavy said no way....we then sent a trade proposal ...Cat mobley, Maggete ...for iverson......they said no ......2 days later dumleavy gets a undisclosed contract extention.........which we later found out is 4 YEARS 22 MILLION.....lol ,,,it still amaze's me .....

FACT.....about a 3 weeks ago and still pending NJ Nets showed intrest in a Shawn Livingston Maggete .....Vince Carter , Marcus Williamson trade .....Didnt Happen for 2 reason's Frist Vince Carter can opt out of his cotract which would leave us with a 2 for 1 deal.....2nd "Dumleavy unwilling to part ways with shawn livingston" bill plaschke actual comment,,,,

FACT: Marcus Williamson played 33 min yesterday had 19 points...

FACT: Shawn Livingston played 92 minutes (3 games) 18 points....

FACT: If vince carter played the rest of the season with us he would be very intriguing for him to stay

FACT: KAMAN......BRAND.....VINCE......MOBLEY....CASSEL.....TIM.....MARCUS... ....ROSS.....SINGLETON....WILLIAMS...DAVIS IF PLAYS = CHAMPIONSHIP POTENTIAL AND FAVORITES

FACT: KAMAN......BRAND........IVERSON.......MOBLEY......CASSEL......TIM..... .ROSS.....SINGLETON....WILLIAMS.....DAVIS IF PLAYS = CHAMPIONSHIP POTENTIAL

FACT: We Can get Pretty Much Any Player We Want Thats in the Trade Rumors This Year....If We START SEEING THE LIGHT PEOPLE .......TRADE LIVINNNNGSTON

it is pretty amazing that NOBODY IS REALIZING IT......

FACT: with these kind of decisons we never gonna win it ...... Cause they will affect us in a long term way............livingston free agent 2 years 40 mil contract..thats another time

What to do now ....... shawn for Garnett,,,,,Witch the wolves will do in a heartbeat........but TO FINALLLY SHUT THE IDOT DUMLEAVY UP......AND F*CKEN DO IT ALREADY.......and trust me they will do it ,,,,,,,shawn maggete ....garrnettt,

bottom line ...........yoraslav,,,,ewing.....singleton.....kaman.......livingston. ...... FOR THE PEOPLE THAT DONT KNOW.............GO LOOK WHOS PICKED AFTER THESE GUYS,,,,,LOL its sad and kinda funny,,,,,

yoraslav and livingston = dumleavy predicting the future .......

WE CAN BLAME ARE SELF A LITTLE....because we got all excited when Mike Smith kept saying ........3 YEARS FROM NOW WE'RE GONNA HAVE A BIGG BACKCOURT A 6'7 PG & 6'9 G ....wowwww cant wait for the future,,,,,,,,

whos the last player that didnt get along with dumass and went to wn a championship......hmmmmmmmm

toohipcliptoslip
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4696
votes: 31

I've solved the Mystery of Maggette. (sorry Tim Hardaway).Corey is handsome, intelligent, articulate, athletic, built like a a Greek god and is strong as a bull. He's the man women want to see and men want to be. (come on guys, admit it) If he looked like Sam he would have been gone long ago and he needs to go NOW. People assume his physical gifts make him a good player. Phil Jackson could have made him a monster. but Dunlevy ain't Jackson. Who would you get to replace Mikey?

Miquel
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1853
Location: Barcelona
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votes: 16

"He's the man women want to see and men want to be"...Smile...Funny.Great way to start your participation in this forum toohip!!Well, and about ticketholder, I agree with you.There's no way we should trade Sam I Am.He's our starting PG and he has given us so many things...the first, to make dissapear the losing mentality, and this is the most important thing that a player can do for his team...As I always have said Sammy is our soul and without him the team would fall into the losing mentality as we have been for so many years...TRADE LIVI is the key for our success.I supose that Baylor should be enough intelligent to get something for the Livi-Maggette package.With the trade of both players he should be able to get a quality player:Lewis,Allen

Benoit_Benjamin
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 118
votes: 6

As far as trading Livingston, everybody who's read my posts this whole season knows I'm all for that. I would have done the Iverson for Maggette/Livingston trade in a second. I think the Clippers are going to live to regret that one. With Iverson teaming with the rest of the team, the Clippers could have had the chance to go deep into the playoffs this season. When the Iverson trade didn't go down, I would have loved to send Maggette to the Kings for Artest. I think either Iverson or Artest would have brought heart and desire to the Clippers and the team wouldn't have to be battling for the 8th spot in the playoffs. I think the Clippers should be offering Livingston and Maggette and a number 1 pick for guys like Paul Pierce and Ray Allen.

I guess I didn't mean blow the team up...but I'm saying that I'd be willing to part with anyone except Elton Brand for someone that would make the team better. Brand is my only untouchable, and that includes Cassell. If the Clippers are not going to make a move this season, then I don't know if they are going to make the playoffs. If they don't make it, Sam will be another year older next year in what will likely be his final year in the NBA. If the team isn't going to make a move to improve itself, send Sam to a team in which he'll have a chance to win another title. That way, Cassell will have the chance to go out the right way and the Clippers will get something of value for him. I think there's a lot of teams that would love to have Cassell's experience and swagger.

jayjay
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 2
votes: 0

Benoit_Benjamin wrote:
Ok Clipper fans, it's time to ask what we do next. This team has been underachieving all year long. The team lacks chemistry and is, in fact, slowly falling apart. Not only have Corey Maggette and James Singleton complained about playing time and asked to be traded, but now one of the leader's of the team is starting to jump ship. After the Atlanta loss, Sam Cassell had an interesting comment.

Quote:
"Someone needs to ask why I wasn't in there, why (Dunleavy) kept me out so long," Cassell said. "Some things happen for a reason. I don't know why. This was a game we were supposed to win. You watched it. What can I say?"

Sounds like Dumbleavy has some major problems. These kinds of problems didn't exist last year. Cassell didn't make comments like these last season when things were going good. If the Clippers keep losing then the chemistry issues are only going to worsen.

So what do we do? The team has resisted any possible moves thus far. Instead of shaking things up when team problems became evident, they decided to be patient. Well, patience has continued to produce mediocrity. Instead of an Allen Iverson or Ron Artest infusion, the Clippers stood pat, hoping that the team would pull out of their funk. Well, it hasn't happened and it can be argued, with all the recent comments out of the team, that things are worse now.

It's past time to do something major. Donald Sterling isn't going to fire Dunleavy to produce a necessary shakeup, so the coach is staying. That means that Maggette has to go...for whatever we can get. The team may even have to come to the conclusion that, if they are committed to keeping Livingston, Cassell has to go too. A team in need of a veteran point guard (Cleveland, Miami,???) would definitely take Sam. Maybe they could package Maggette and Cassell for somebody like Mike Bibby or Jason Kidd.

Maybe this whole thing is the Cassell Curse. Remember, after leading the Timberwolves to the playoffs in his first year there, the team failed to make the playoffs in his second year, which was filled with descension. Hopefully I'm wrong about this. But I don't think I'm wrong that this team needs to make changes now!

What's the Cassell curse? Walking around with two Championship Rings?

Benoit_Benjamin
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 118
votes: 6

Hey jayjay...Those two ring came from his first two seasons in 1994 and 1995. Last time I checked, this is 2007. Rings are nice; but talking about a ring you won 12 years ago probably isn't holding much weight in the Clipper locker room right now. I love Cassell but there must be a reason why he's worn 7 different jerseys in his 14 years in the league. Think with your head and not your heart.

As far as the Cassell Curse goes, I was making a reference to how his two seasons in Minnesota are very similiar thus far to his two seasons in Los Angeles. The Wolves made a big playoff run his first season there and people expected big things from the team in year 2. However, Cassell suffered through an injury plagued season, complained about his contract a little along with Sprewell, and the Wolves failed to make the playoffs. Well, everyone had high expectations for the Clippers this year after last years playoff run. While not needing to complain about his contract, Cassell has had some injuries this season and the team is in danger of not making the playoffs. I'm not saying it's Cassell's fault; it's just that the Minnesota and the Clippers could be a mirror of one another and the only thing they have in common is Cassell. Hopefully, the Clippers can turn things around so that making the playoffs will bring an end to the imagined "curse" I'm referring to.

My preference is that they keep Cassell while trading Maggette and Livingston for a major star. However, if the team decides to stand pat and continues to underperform, I could imagine that Sam would not be a happy camper. It's just kind of sad that this team hangs its hope on a 37 year old point guard. It won't be long before Cassell is gone...is there going to be someone to take his place??

JamFan
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 2375
votes: 22

Well, the way things are now, we are not going to win a championship anytime soon. So we might as well be thinking how we improve this team over the next two seasons. Sam is great, but only part time now. He can't do it all the time, every night. And at his age, it doesn't get better. When he is on, he's definitely on. But only in flashes now. So we need to decide on who we are going to build around. We should either trade Livingston, or hand him the reigns of the team and tell him it is his time to lead the team permanately. Sam will play better in flashes if he paces himself and gets lots of rest. Notice how he plays better after being off for a few days due to injury, only to fade again a couple of game later. Obviously, be build around Brand. I would even package Kaman with others to get the right stud. Kaman and/or Maggette for KG, or Ray Allen and...... ? Or the player of your dreams. If Kaman were going to improve more, he would have done it this year. Instead he has gone backwards. We have to make a trade to start a new core to build around. Unfortunely we may have Dumleavy at the center of the process and that leaves me with a total lack of confidence that they will be able to make the right deal. I could build a team around Livingston, Allen, and Brand. The question is, can Dumleavy?

seasonticketholder10
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 36
votes: 1

To jam Fan

YOU CANNOT BUILD A TEAM AROUND LIVINGSTON....CAUSE HE'S AN UNPURE POINT GAURD.......NOT SURE WHAT IM SAYING ..LOOK AT DERON WILLIAMS......NUMBER 2 IN ASSIIT BEHIND NASH......AND HIS 2ND YEAR.....PROBABLY WILL WIN MIP AWARD....

YOU ARE WHAT YOU ARE IN THE NBA,,,,,,,,,YOU MIGHT HAVE 1 GOOD YEAR ...BUT IF YOUR NOT CONSISTANT BY THE 3RD YEAR ......JUST ANOTHER Q RICHARDSON 20 POINTS ONE NIGHT,,,,,,,NEXT 4 GAMES WITH 0 POINTS

JamFan
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 2375
votes: 22

21 years old, would be a junior in college. Even Kobe didn't look all that great until his 3rd year in the NBA. And Livingston is having to be a point guard in slow, walk it up the court, 8 passes and then shoot offense. I can only imagine what would happen if he were a backup PG in Phoenix, learning how to play the game the way they do. We have an entire team of underachievers at this point. But the system is really working for anybody.

seasonticketholder10
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 36
votes: 1

LOL........jam fan you crack me up ..........As much im a Clipper fan and cant stand the lakers or kobe .......dont compare Kobe Bryant and Shawn Livingston ......

and yeah kobe didnt look all great IN HIS 3RD YEAR......just Selected to the 1999-2000 NBA All-Defensive First Team and named to the 1999-2000 NBA All-Interview Second Team ....

dont think becasuse he's 21 years old and would be in junior in college that he has all this potential to become a great player ........from the majority of the young players that come in the nba are flops.........we just hear the good,,,,,not the bad,,,

LOL shawn livingston in phoenix would be a disaster for him cause ...HE CANT SHOOOOT lol.........nash gets in to the paint not becasuse there running like hell ..... cause hes a 3 point threat and you have to respect him out there........every time he runs a screen with stoudimire .....hes such a good shooter...its hard for the PF to come down cause he'll make the shot...imagine shawn.......can you say make the shot im doubleing stoudimire/brand......

what you should imagine is if can make a 3 pointer,,,,,,lol

as for dumass offense ........its very simple ,,,,Let them read and react .....not to call a play with your dirty hands around your mouth FOR LITERARLY EVERY PLAY,,,,,,,

SERIOUSLY NO JOKE .......EVERRRY PLAY .....HE THINKS HES SOME OFFENSIVE GENIUS....please notice it .......its killing me....

JamFan
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 2375
votes: 22

You might want to go back and actually read what I wrote about Kobe's 3rd year. Shaun is not Kobe. But Shaun came into the league with a slight frame. Shaun spent a lot of his 1st two years injured or rehabing and come back from injury. I'm not sure we can actually gauge what his talent level could have been with those delays. And He is playing for Dumleavy. Everybody is underachieving playing for this coach. So if you want to go off on Livingston, go ahead. But make sure you go off on everybody and do not leave out the coach.

LAC_12
Clipper All-Star
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Posts: 2029
Location: West Coast
votes: 18

seriously people..... Shaun / Maggette / Sam / whoever-the-fu*k you want to blame IS NOT THE REASON. All you people are doin is talking face value. Think about what you say. The problems can be (somewhat) blamed on players, but the blame is ON THE GOD DAMN COACH. Dont compare kobe to shaun??? If Shaun actually played his first two years and matured under a decent coach (not even Jackson) we would be comparing him to Jordan or Magic or whatever you want. Shaun is too young and WE ARE IMPACIENT, so for all those impacient people keep waiting; cause as long as Dunleavy is coaching shaun will remain a shrimp. Heck Jackson turned Smush a steady player..... SMUSH!!! You people mean to tell me SHaun is a bad player? 6'7 point guard barely playin, actuially playing, in his 1 or second year!!! If Jacson had this Kobe would be another role player on the Laker team. I am strictly against predicting future outcomes, but this is white on black. IF YOU ARE TIRED OF SHAUN, and SICK OF HIM, and are rquesting a trade with his name first BLAME DUNLEAVY, get mad AT HIM, be SICK OF HIM. So, bottomline, you want to blow this team up or what-not START WITH THE ****** ASS COACH, DUNLEAVY

TGMosesVI
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 121
Location: Los Angeles
votes: 4


Repped High Quality Post

Man, so many profanities and poorly written posts. Let's try and keep the syntax together men. Wink

Anyways, on paper the team looks great. You have two excellent point guards, a scorer and a defensive stopper at guard, a veteran at small forward, the best PF in the league, and a budding center. Plus you've have a coach with a wealth of (winning) playoff experience. I lot of GMs would kill for a team like that. Oh, I forgot to mention a superb bench.

But often what looks good on paper doesn't translate to success on the court...

The biggest issues with the Clippers is the lack of defense and team chemistry. That's something that the coach and the players need to work on together to resolve -- you can't win on pure talent alone. I think a big reason has to be with Maggette. I hate to choose sides in the whole Maggette/Dunlevy fight -- but the more I look into it, the more I see myself siding with Dunlevy. From what the reports indicate Maggette is poisoning team chemistry and if you look at his play style, Maggette is often a one man, charge-inducing showstoppa on the court. He can score, but at what cost? I remember a scout saying that Maggette is too dumb to run plays. I'm sure that's not true, but it sure looks that way on the court... It's sad too, since Maggette is one of favorite players -- an original Clipper.

The time has come to trade Maggette for a starter at the guard spot. I hate to say it, but it doesn't even have to be an all-star now. Even if Maggette were to move up on Ross (let's face it Maggette needs to a starter to remain on this team), the guard position isn't his natural position; he excels at the SF spot. The only alternative is to take Mobley's spot. And even though that's fine with Mobley, do you think the Clipper front office will allow it with the money their already paying him?

david
Site Admin
Posts: 8492
votes: 42

I agree- defense is the key- that's one of the main reasons why last season's team was a success. And yeah even though Corey is one of the long time Clippers it seems that it would be the best for the team to trade him. If there are no takers maybe they can get a couple of draft picks- 2 first rounders or a first rounder + a second rounder. At this point it might be a case of addition by subtraction. With Maggette gone Q Ross would be able to play more as would Singleton. Livingston could see some more action too. And who knows- maybe Korolev will be able to get a few minutes here and there and show his game Wink.

toohipcliptoslip
CTB MVP X1
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Posts: 4696
votes: 31
  1. Even if Mikey D. hasn't developed Shaun well or can't get along with Corey, we're stuck with him

  2. Corey's best function in life would be a Chipandale Dancer or a battering ram. This Mikey-Corey fight is ruining the team and Mikey will win

3 Shaun should have gone to college. He would have gotten good coaching and would have some self-confidence. Could I have had the chutzpah to be a starting NBA point guard at 21? NO WAY. Did you?. With his slight frame he is injury prone (Marcus Camby). KIDS who have been so famous so young have spent most of their lives with people's lips attached firmly to their butts and may be too dysfunctional to be good team mates as is true for Kobe Bryant, (may he get pubic lice) Guarding Shaun is a spectator sport. Shaun's defender can do it while sitting in the second row eating popcorn. He doesn't penetrate (I think he could but doesn't have the stones), sometimes can shoot jumpers and can't shoot free throws. Everyone takes as given that SL will be a great player but it's really not a sure thing that he will develop. It's a BIG gamble (D.Miles) Do we want to gamble with this season and next?

Corey for sure, then SL then anyone and anything else but EB, Sammy and Cayman. If we could get a star I'd kiss Mikey D (after taking an anti-nausea pill) but there probably won't be any trades.

clippman21
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 14
votes: 1

we sooo gotta do a trade i say i pavlovich from cavs 4 corey what do u think???

david
Site Admin
Posts: 8492
votes: 42

Whew- am I glad right now that the Clippers didn't do the Maggette for Artest "infusion" Wink. Here's the latest on Artest:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/6531512

dancer.susan@english.zzn.
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 1
votes: 0

thanks

jlemmen43
Clipper All-Star
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Posts: 1403
Location: Green Bay, WI
votes: 10

It would be different if we had an established team - to bring in guys that can play like Iverson and Artest (who have issues). But considering we are building this team from draft picks and contract extensions, there's no room for that kind of risk in a team that's trying to develop into the elite class. I am very glad the Clips never traded for either of them.

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