Free Agents Ideas for Clippers (P. 83)

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cleepers
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Oh, and Jamal may be 6th man of the year, but Ginobili is 6th man of the DECADE!

ClipperKyle32
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I like Bayless. The dude has been a Clipper Killer. Sneaky Athletic, Good Shooter. He reminds me of a Patty Mills almost. I just want to know how he is defensively. I looked and compared his and Collisons stats and Collison is better in every way.

cleepers
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He's been on a few bad teams, but I'm willing to bet he'd thrive in our offensive system, particularly alongside Barnes and Redick - if we manage to get a starting SF and a defensive starting SG. That bench unit would be lightning quick on the break.

His shooting is actually a notch below Collison's, but I think he's an upgrade defensively... mostly due to him being a little bigger and more versatile in who he can guard. He had no trouble holding his own on a excellent defensive team in Memphis.

Otherwise, they're almost the same player. If we can interest him in playing for the $2mil that Collison took, I'd definitely take a flyer on him.

CapsNClips
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I wonder what kind of money Rudy Gay will command if he opts out of his contract.

Maybe he wants to win now. $20mil for Rudy Gay = Awful. $6mil for Rudy Gay = Really good.

He's a terrible 1 or 2 option on a team, but he's a pretty good 3 or 4 option on a championship team.

He's probably going to opt into his final year of $20 mil, but I'd keep my eye I'm him if we don't get Deng or Ariza.

CapsNClips
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Whelp!

ClipperKyle32
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CapsNClips wrote:

Whelp!

I want Melo on this team. He'd be a great fit. He is a great rebounder, finisher, shot maker. Yet the good teams keep getting better while we sit here and try to sign Paul Pierce for the Min and hope that improves us. We need a make a move for Melo. Melo is in a tough spot. Either LeBron or Chris? Both Players are willing passers? Then the next step older Wade or younger Blake Griffin. Bosh or Deandre Jordan to make up for your own defensive mishaps? Then finally Spo or Doc? Money isn't an issue for Melo.

I am just tired of teams like Houston possibly getting Love and Miami getting Melo. Ugh it pains me , we need to be that team. If Miami keeps piling guys like that I wouldn't be surprised the Clippers havent traded Chris Paul for Chalmers and Cole and then Miami has

Paul

Wade

Melo

LeBron

Bosh

Ahhh a super team.

God Damn this makes me angry.

We need to make a move for Melo

ClipperKyle32
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With cooperation from their stars and role players Udonis Haslem and Chris Andersen, who also possess player options for next season, the Heat could open up in excess of $50 million in cap space this summer and have the most financial flexibility in the league. The only Heat player locked into place for next season is Norris Cole at a salary of $2 million, though Riley will have to contend with a handful of cap holds for pending free agents as well as their upcoming first-round pick in the draft later this month (No. 26 overall).

That Is how you run a franchise. You don't lock up guys like Barnes for 3 years lol. Man i need to chill out , but the thought of this makes me angry. Florida and Texas don't have those taxes so taking less money helps those teams

clippyclip
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Melo is a great individual player don't get me wrong, but he's not what we need for our TEAM. I hope he goes to the Heat. Their chemistry will be instantly ruined.

cleepers
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CapsNClips wrote:

Whelp!

But they have cap holds on LBJ, Bosh and Wade. If they renounce their rights to sign 'melo, they'd have to sign him and whoever they renounce under the cap. If the players are willing to take that huge a pay cut, it will certainly buy Miami another chip, but it will change the landscape of the league for a long, long time.

Get paid or win... them's your choices.

CapsNClips
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If that does end up being the new NBA landscape then we would be ahead of the game because we have two superstars already.

Maybe KD & Noah will sign with us in 2016. LOL

That might be the only hope any team has of beating that Big Four in Miami. God damnit Melo

Dunkathon
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If the Heat take Melo, they basically won't have a bench. Besides, Melo's skillset overlaps with Lebron to such an extent the move wouldn't be worth it unless the Heat want a REALLY overpaid spot-up shooter. The Clippers and Heat should both avoid Melo like the plague. I've got no idea what Riley is thinking with Melo, but whatever it is, I like the chance it will ruin the Heat and super teams.

The Clips need to focus on getting Deng and a backup big, not this "SUPER TEAM" nonsense.

pageC4
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There are some pretty good players out there that can make this team better. We don't need to go for a home run with every acquisition.

Dunkathon
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Exactly. I wouldn't mind Ariza either, or Wilson Chandler.

Agent0
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I don't want to replace Collison, but him opting out seems to imply he's gone because we can't really pay more than that amount for a backup PG.

Of course I didn't like him in the backcourt with Paul, but Collison himself was fine.

Agent0
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I really doubt Rudy is at the stage where he's taking anything less than $10M if it is offered, and you'll certainly find someone to offer that.

Rudy Gay has always been a player whose bigger issue was how much he made. He was paid like a superstar when he's barely an All-Star caliber player. In the right role on a team and if he's focusing on defense, he's a good two way SF, but not for max contract money.

slestack11
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I don't see how the Heat can have Lebron, DWade, Melo, and Chris Bosh on their roster and the Clippers can't fit Melo under the cap. If Melo is willing to play for $10M per season, then the Clippers seem like a better fit for him since there is essentially an opening at SF on this team.

JQuick32
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Highly doubt that team happens and it wouldn't even be that good anyway. No way Melo takes a paycut, all he cares about is money. ESPN is just trolling.

cleepers
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Yeah, I wasn't trying to imply that you're down on DC. I agree with you. It looks like he's going to walk for more money.

That said, how would you feel about Bayless stepping into his role if we could snag him for the same deal?

ClippersDA
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Why can't we be like the spurs? Our talent is comparable. Pop just turns average players into vital talent. Kawhi Leonard is a stud

And could not shoot at all when he arrived. Why don't we develop players like that?

Agent0
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I don't have issues with Bayless in the role, but what do you all thing about him if Jamal is kept? There won't be too much of anyone creating for the rest of the bench players the 12-13 minutes they are on the floor and Paul isn't there.

Also, I'm actually a bit worried about getting any PG that Doc would be tempted to play next to Paul and is small. Bayless has those gator arms at his small size already. This is why a PG like Livingston intrigues me because if Doc wants to play two PG's, we actually end up gaining length on defense with a guy who has SF length at SG.

Types of Players

I think if we don't try to get too wild, we can gather some nice two way-ish bench/role players. I mean we can't expect the best guys at every position.

PG - Shaun Livingston ($3.5M) / SG - Thabo Sefolosha ($1.8M) / SF: Vince Carter ($2.1M - BAE)

I know some people have acquisitions that are a bigger splash in their minds, but that's a PG/SG who averages 12/4.5/4.5 per 36. A SG/SF who averages 9/5/2 per 36, the rebounding from the perimeter and the length is probably not the first thing people will look at, but that will help a lot on defense. Carter averaged 18/5/4 per 36 last season. I know he's 37 and isn't a long term solution, but money is what it is. Carter was assisted on a career 2nd lowest 20.7% of his 2PT FGA. Which means when he wasn't shooting 3PT shots in which he attempted 4.6 (6.8 per 36) and shot 39.4%, he was doing a lot of creating, and not just for himself as his 2.6 APG (3.9 assists / 36) indicates, but for others also.

Carter is a good stop gap backup SF, especially if we can't find a permanent solution at SF yet. We should have the MLE and Bi-Annual, and it is possible to split the MLE with Livingston and Sefolosha and give Carter the bi-annual. Yes, old guy this, old guy that. Our starting lineup outside of Barnes is all under 30 years old, there's nothing wrong with having a few old guys. Actually most championship teams have a couple of old guys because they come cheaper and are more productive than their contracts.

Another thing I like about Livingston is that he gives you a post up option also, but the ability to legitimately play two positions defensively allows you to be willing to pay him a little extra as opposed to a strict PG where you don't want to pay a guy to just play backup minutes at one position. Shaun is the kind of backup PG that compliments CP3 well because of his size. All those players are good compliments. Livingston to Paul, Sefolosha to Redick, and Carter to a defensive 3/D SF.

I think Jamal is the teams best trade asset to either combining to get a quality starting SF or to getting a quality 25+ MPG backup big man. Carter helps to replace that role of Jamal, and I don't expect him to be commanding much money at this stage.

Lineup Idea

I think this is a solid preliminary lineup which features the ability to shoot, defense, multiple bench ball handlers / shot creators and perimeter players who cover up the rebounding

PG: Chris Paul / Shaun Livingston

SG: J.J. Redick / Thabo Sefolosha

SF: (TBD) / Vince Carter

PF: Blake Griffin / (TBD)

C: DeAndre Jordan / (TBD)

I would take Pierce over Carter, but Carter might be much more affordable, Pierce is a guy that would command the full MLE or more and the difference in production might not be worth it.

Now, the hard part is what to do with Jamal, Barnes, Dudley, and any other assets we can think of to either get a 25+ MPG backup big man or a quality starting SF.

Filling out the roster

The starting SF options could go a few ways.

1) Stick with Barnes knowing you have both Carter and Thabo as secondary options at SF, and maybe even Dudley as one awful season doesn't mean he forgot how to play basketball forever either.

2) A sign and trade for a guy like Ariza. There are better guys like Deng, but it isn't really as reasonable. A sign and trade for a guy like Williams or P.J. Tucker, who one might assume we just sign outright, but with getting (Livingston, Thabo and Carter), your free agency money runs dry, so that will require some sort of sign and trade situation too.

The backup big man option can go a few ways:

1) Trading for a big man like Channing Frye or Amir Johnson, which will be hard based on the importance of those players to their teams and with their roles

2) Go with a splash and sign and trade for a guy like Jordan Hill, but if the Clippers are giving a reasonable contract, why would the Lakers accept? The other option is to use the MLE on him and then use sign and trade options to get guys like Thabo and Livingston, but that requires more moving pieces and might be hard to pull off. Also OKC probably doesn't want to help us out.

Amir Johnson is a decent chance with a third team involved. Raptors fans don't feel he's a starter, but a great 6th man big, maybe like a Taj Gibson. If we can get some sort of deal where Toronto is getting someone like Marcus Morris and a draft pick, we're getting Amir, but again, where does Jamal go if Toronto gets Morris, Phoenix doesn't need him, so why wouldn't Phoenix just take Amir. A team like Minnesota could use a guy like Jamal though, but everyone is looking at Love there. Remember after a summer of a ton of hard work, Amir had these shooting numbers:

10-16 feet: 58.6%

16-23 feet: 44.1%

3PT (1 3PA): 30.3%

JQuick32
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LOL, no it isn't. We had zero backup bigs all year. Jamal and DJ probably wouldn't even play on the Spurs because Manu and Splitter are so much better than them.

Agent0
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We should be able to build a team like them, but our talent is inferior, especially when we get out of the mind-set of just thinking of talent as offensive or scoring talent. You need the initial talent to be there first. Those average players have the skills needed to fit into the team. We can also get average players and build a great team as long as we get the right average players who fit and compliment our guys, we're on a good track if we make the right moves going forward, and it didn't take them just one season to get to where they are now either.

...but you're underplaying the Spurs scouting by saying they are just getting average players. They scout really well that they get overlooked guys and develop them into very useful players. Pop won't make Byron Mullens a useful player to a basketball team, but the Spurs also won't draft or sign a guy like Byron Mullens.

Agent0
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Jamal would be hard to find minutes on that team, but he isn't a Pop type player, so they wouldn't even sign him. Splitter isn't so much better than DJ, they have different advantages and disadvantages.

JQuick32
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Splitter is the better defender by far, DJ is overrated based on flashy highlight blocks and athleticism. Honestly, I prefer his offensive game (though ridiculously soft at times) to DJ's dunks-only offense as well. Overall, Splitter is clearly the superior player.

ClippersDA
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I agree that the spurs scouts are top class. If seriously just hire anyone coming out of that organization. They know what they are doing. Every player they draft I assume will

Be a useful playoff player one day. Boris diaw, patty mills, tiago splitter

  • how do they find them?'
ClippersDA
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And yes I know Boris Diaw was not drafted by them but they resurrected his career.

Same deal

Agent0
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I agree and I've said this before, though I don't think he's so much better. That's why I didn't dispute him being better, I think he's better and I said it before, but I don't think he's so much better. DJ has some things to his advantage too though. I don't disagree that Splitter is a more fundamentally sound player. You don't have to prefer his offensive game even, he's a far superior offensive player by any measure (scores at a higher rate, better shooter, better passer, better offensive moves, better touch), no denying that.

Defensively, like you said, most people don't realize that Splitter is actually quite good as a defender, maybe because he's a Euro big or not a super athlete, but fundamentally sound defense, good length, contesting without fouling, that beats highlight defense.

The skeptics can read about it here:

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2013/12/ ... sideration

ClippersDA, Diaw was a guy I wanted us to get, Spurs just had connections in getting him. While Charlotte wasn't working for him, it was clear that if he went to a good team he'd be productive and beneficial to winning.

ClipperPostman
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I expect Jquick to say something like "Splitter is better than DJ", but not someone who actually is knowledgeable about basketball such as yourself Agent0.

Let's demystify this.

Tiago Splitter vs Deandre Jordan Per 36

I'll preface by saying I generally don't accept Per 36 stats because they "assume" the player would continue to play at that level throughout the entire game. Doesn't take into account Law of Diminishing returns. If most bench players could sustain they're bench production the entire game they wouldn't be bench players... They'd be starters. None-the-less we'll look at per 36

DJ - 10.7 pts - 14 reb - 2.5 blks - .676 fg%

Splitter - 13.7 pts - 10.3 reb - .9 blks - .523 %

Where in the world are you getting Splitter is "better"?

But wait this must be a case of the "Eyeball" test. I disprove your eyes, but I can say I see a player in Tiago Splitter who benefits from 2 major advantages.

  1. Playing in a system that is designed and perfected over 17 years to produce those type of stats from the center position.

  2. Playing next to arguably the best PF to ever play the game.

You could literally stick anyone in Splitters position and they would produce similar results. Lets look at the facts.

Prior to Splitter there was a Man Name Dejaun Blair... Lets look at his per 36 stats Last year on San Antonia.

Blair - 13.9PTS - 9.7 REB - .4 BLKs - 524 fg%

Splitter - 13.7 pts - 10.3 reb - .9 blks - .523 %

Wow those numbers look very similar. And you can pull up Matt Bonner from 2008 when he was starting and his per 36 looks just like theirs. My point? Simple. The Spurs run a well oiled system that you can stick any player in for the most part and get the similar stats.

DJ in every category is killing Splitter. Splitters defense looks "Better", simply because he is in a defensive system that allows him to look "better". His wing defenders aren't getting beat every play where he has to step out and help and no one rotates on time to defend his man. Then he gets blamed for every score in the paint, although he rotated perfectly. But I wouldn't expect average fans to understand deeper facets of the game so I understand the "He's the center and paint protector so it's his fault" stance.

As far as "offensive moves". We all know DJ is Severely limited, but he gives you 10 ppg, who cares "how" he gets it. Hakeem had great finesse to his game, and superb footwork, Shaq just pummeled you under the basket like a bull. I guess you can have a "Preference" on which style you like better, but I don't remember a game being won on "style" points.

Again I'm not sure where Splitter is "better than DJ", but it surely isn't reflected in any stats or facts. I expect Jquick to say things like this because his basketball knowledge seems to be severely limited to how he "Feels" in the moment. But Agent0 please present me with some facts, because I don't see any.

Yes I read that article on Splitter. It was a great article if you want to learn how to spin facts and stats in favor of your argument. One of the main premises of that article was based on the fact when Tiago sits the defensive suffers. The question is it because Tiago is that "Good" or their big man off the bench is 6'8 (The same height as Kobe Bryant a 2 guard). I think that would cause your defense to drop regardless of who your starting center is.

I'm not buying what that article is selling. A few snap shots of right plays and a whole lot of stretching doesn't equate to elite defending nor Tiago even being in the same conversation as DJ.

ClipperKyle32
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Melo in LA? For What? Does He Train At Our Facility in the Offseason? I know a lot of player do. I bet he meets with CP3 and Blake while in LA or at least CP. I know Doc cannot talk to him yet because of tampering. I have a feeling we get Melo. Its the best decision for him and his family. Yes I watch his wife's show LALA's full-court life. The show was showing during the Nuggets trade. She said she hated the cold of Denver and New York ain't exactly always warm. She is always in LA and she loves it here. She is an actress it would be good for her career to be in California. His Wife would love it in LA. Now as far as Melo goes. I think he would be willing to take a HUGE paycut especially if he had a chance to win and to win now.

I think he ends up in LA. Guys we need an upgrade at the SF and if we can get Melo, we need to try. All of you guys on here complain about our SF spot , but then don't want us to upgrade it to a player like Melo -- could not be worse than Dudley.

CapsNClips
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I would be willing to do whatever it takes to get Melo based on the sole fact we need him to stay away from Miami if we ever want a chance at a championship.

Might have to trade DJ for peanuts just to clear cap space, but I'd rather not have DJ than have DJ and Miami having Melo.

Agent0
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Per 36 is a rate stat

Some good points. Per 36 keeps being mis-understood as a prediction of stats when it just talks about rate of production while on the floor. Of course, without drastic changes, players rate of production actually generally holds true in a range. The guys that have drastic changes are guys who foul too much and can't produce the same way without fouling (usually these guys just adjust or never play big minutes), guys with poor stamina (it still not like they just drop off either), guys in roles that can't be sustained in the starting lineup. EG: A player who shoots a lot with the bench, but if he started he wouldn't get as many shot opportunities because the starters have scorers, so he goes from 22 pts/36 as a bench player to 19 pts/36 as a starter. The minute changes generally aren't too much for us to get wild about it. If you're using per 36 on a guy playing 7 MPG, then that's the problem, but a guy playing 26 MPG and one playing 30 MPG, there's not much to talk about. For some guys, actually playing more give them more court freedom and confidence and their production increases. It's rare to see a normal player who plays more and just has a drastically different rate of production.

DJ on any team will give you per 36 of 10-13 PPG, 11-12+ RPG, 2+ BPG. A +/1 PPG or +/1 RPG really doesn't define the level of talent a player has. Maybe on a team that REALLY doesn't need scoring or has a very slow pace, he scores 9 PPG, but 9 pts vs 11 pts really isn't the determinant of his ability or level as a player, or at least it shouldn't be.

Splitter vs the rest

I think you're minimizing the difference between Splitter and those guys. Splitter has legitimate C size, has a 7'2 wingspan and 9'2 reach while Blair has a great wingspan, but is barely 6'7 with shoes and has a standing reach 1.5 inches better than midget arms Blake's 8'9. It's also good to know that in contrast to Splitter, when those guys were on the floor. They can't contest effectively in the post or alter any shots that well when not blocking like Splitter can. Duncan was/is actually the C with those guys. Also, Diaw is not Splitter's backup, not sure why people think this. Duncan is the primary guy at C if Splitter isn't on the floor and actually Baynes and Ayres are the ones that play spot minutes at C.

Offense

Now, there are two things I said, #1 is that Splitter is a better offensive player, I'm not sure there should be much debate there, but maybe? Seems like you're getting stuck on FG% which is just not a good way to even measure scoring efficiency. FT's do matter, and Splitter makes more. Like you said, doesn't matter how you score but whether you score. Splitter score a decent amount more with a minimal drop-off in efficiency.

Per 36 offensive stats-

Jordan:

  • 10.7 PPG / 0.9 APG / 1.5 TPG / .630 TS% / 121 Ortg - 12.4 USG

Splitter:

  • 13.7 PPG / 2.5 APG / 2.1 TPG / .572 TS% / 114 Ortg - 17.7 USG

Give Splitter his rookie year adjusting to the NBA, look at his last 3 seasons per 36:

  • 15.3 PPG / 9.7 RPG / 2.3 APG / 2.1 TPG / .610 TS% / 71% FT / 0.9 SPG / 1,2 BPG / 3.4 FPG / 117 Ortg - 18.7 USG

DJ's last 3 seasons have been good per minute, here are his numbers:

  • 11.1 PPG / 12.2 RPG / 0.6 APG / 1.6 TPG / .620 TS% / 43.2% FT / 0.9 SPG / 2.4 BPG / 3.5 FPG / 118 Ortg - 13.3 USG

Splitter is just a better offensive player. Remember Ortg needs to be compared with usage (which is why we don't think Tyson Chandler and his 11.5 PPG / league leading .671 TS% and 133 Ortg in 12-13 was the best offensive player in the league or a better offensive player than Marc Gasol for example). Splitter is a fairly good passer, finishes well, can shoot FT's and the extra turnovers relative to extra offensive production is minuscule. We can't just use FG% which ignores the reality that while DJ takes only really high percentage shots and finishes them, he still sucks at the line and hurts your offensive efficacy when he's shooting FT's.

I think it is very safe to say that there's no argument about who is the better offensive player as I'm not sure where that argument could come from. It would have to be build on just FG%, but that's obviously a limited view, and Splitter over the past 3 seasons has scored more PPG with 1% lower TS%, so better scorer, obviously better passer, and offensive rating is 1 lower while having 5% more usage, so again, basically everything is in his favor except for offensive rebounding.

Defense

Seems like you're quantifying defense on blks / rebs / stls or I'm not sure what exactly, but that's just not an accurate measure of defense. Unlike offense (and even offense has its nuances), defense is harder to quantify by just defensive stats. Now if defensive stats were expanded to more than just blocks and steals and we had charges taken, percentage of shots in range altered, etc, etc, then the stats can do a better job. For now, the stats are just not good enough with stls / blks and defensive rebounds.

Defense is always harder to quantify. Blocks and defensive rebound and steals aren't a good indicator of defense. You can do those things and be a great defender and you can do them and be an overall mediocre or sometime even below average defender. Subjective quantification of defense will need good support with real life examples, something like the article provided, but we have +/-, we have Snyergy stats, we could maybe even look at opponent PER if we want. So we have a decent amount of tools we can look at where if we see a pattern and try to see how much is team and player, we can take something away from it. If there's no clear answer, then at least we can conclude that they are similar level defensive players each with their different advantages.

Now, if DJ and Splitter are similar on defense, and Splitter is better on offense, who has the advantage as the overall player...but I'll digress. Let's look at some actual data in addition to whatever subjective things one could have. Now, I know JQuick is the master of subjectivity, but in comparing 2 players, even if there is no analysis there, one has a 50% chance of their conclusion matching what the data says anyways, lol.

1) Defensive RAPM - We all know plus / minus. Then there's something called APM, which is adjusted plus/minus which has the goal of adjusting for the other players on the floor, both your teammates and opponents. RAPM then uses ridge regression to help make APM more predictive of the future. Comment about it: RAPM is about twice as accurate as an APM using standard regression and using 3 years of data, where the weighting of past years of data and the reference player minutes cutoff has also been carefully optimized.

Jordan - 0.6

Splitter - 3.0

Based on RAPM, Jordan comes up as an average defensive player at his position while Splitter comes up as 3 pts/100 possessions better on defense than an average player at his position. So what this means is that if you were just going to track defense, Splitter and 4 average players would give up 97 pts in 100 possessions while DJ and 4 average players would give up between 99-100 pts in 100 possessions. The +/- 1 range is generally what we can consider average. Players above 2 in defensive RAPM include guys like Iguodala (5.5), Garnett (4.2), Sanders (4.2) M.Gasol (4.1), Duncan (3.4), Bledsoe (3.4), Howard (3.3), Omer Asik (3.3), Amir Johnson (2.6), Draymond Green (2.6), Andrew Bogut (2.4), Taj Gibson (2.3), Hibbert (2.3), George (2.3). The top of the list clearly correlates with the guys we see given the most defensive impact during the season.

Similarly, the bottom of the list seems to line up quite well too, here are some bottom guys:

Byron Mullens (-4.5), Neal (-3.7), Freddette (-3.2), Belinelli (-3.0), Jennings (-2.9), Calderon (-2.8), Irving (-2.6), Caron (-2.5)

2) Synergy Stats

Jordan:

Isolation - 0.76 PPP (85th)

Post-Up - 0.81 PPP (99th)

P&R Roll Man - 0.94 PPP (77th)

Spot-up - 0.86 PPP (61st)

Splitter:

Isolation - 0.72 PPP (65th)

Post-Up - 0.72 PPP (43rd)

P&R Roll Man - 0.99 PPP (89th)

Spot-up - 1.04 PPP (268th)

So here we see DJ win. Splitter is a better post defender, but DJ is a better pick and roll defender and bother's shots against spot up shooters much better. This seems to make sense, Splitter is a better fundamental defender in one on one situations, but DJ is just much more mobile and athletic. Of course this only refers to guarding their own man (for the most part), how precisely they are rotating and getting to their spots and contesting is also part of defense.

So defensively, RPM gives Splitter a decent edge, Snyergy gives Splitter the edge in man to man / iso and DJ the edge in pick and roll on his own man and spot-up. Overall DJ gives up 0.83 PPG to Splitters 0.86, so DJ gets a little margin here.

People like to use individual Drtg, but people don't look into how it is determined, Drtg for the individual doesn't really mean that much. It takes team Drtg, counts defensive rebounds, blocks and steals as a "stop", and adjusts the players defensive rating based on that. So the guys who produce those three stats best on the team get the lowest Drtg, but obviously that's not really that accurate. I thought it was an adjusted stat before that was looking at Drtg of team while player is on the floor, but that's not what it is at all. It's actually not so useful in determining defensive level. Basically it is saying if every player on the team equally contributes to team Drtg, then the best defender is the guy who gets the most stops by grabbing rebounds, getting steals and getting blocks. So, yea.

Anyways, so if we want to be generous and say the stats say DJ and Splitter are equal, sure, but Splitter is still better on offense, and I don't know what counter argument there is against that outside of maybe offensive RAPM where Splitter ranked average and DJ slightly above average this year. Defensively, I think the low blocks get looked at, but think of him as a P.J. Brown type who didn't block shots but altered and contested shots well and was a very very solid defender.

LaMarcus Aldridge

Post defense is where Splitter probably shines the most, he can't move like DJ, though he's mobile himself. I think it shined the most when the Spurs played the Blazers.

LMA vs Houston: 29.8 PPG / .546 TS%

LMA vs SA: 21.8 PPG / .458 TS%

That's both team and players that can get that done, and Splitter was on of the guys

You can see the difference. First he's got a stronger base than DJ, doesn't get moved as easily. Secondly he uses his chest to get Aldridge off balance and prevent him from getting to his spot without fouling. DJ plays a little big soft in that scenario, it actually might not be that he's soft, but that he doesn't have the fundamental down, but he doesn't know how well to use his chest to deter guys when they face up against him. Third, Splitter hardly ever got caught jumping before Aldridge actually shot the ball, he basically got into position, tried to get Aldridge in a bad spot and put his arms up. That's extremely fundamental defense, that's defense that even when he scores, you make the guy work hard. DJ is not that kind of man defender, the synergy stats say this is true, and I'm pretty sure most of us know this.

Now, man to man defense isn't all as you want your bigs to be good team defenders, and Splitter is certainly not bad in that area either.

...also like I mentioned to clipper-joe, because Duncan is a legitimate C, SA has two legitimate playoff lineups. So when they want to go against LMA or Howard, they can use Splitter. When they want to get more shooting and spacing they can bring a shooter and move Duncan to C, and he's just as big as C's, he's a defensive anchor, he's a rim protector, and they are perfectly fine. That kind of roster is harder to build when you don't have a guy like Duncan. He makes up for deficiencies. When Splitter is on, he spaces and hits from mid-range, when a guy like Bonner is one, he takes advantage of the spacing then he covers up on defense. Ideally we need a big that makes up for the deficiencies of our two bigs in some ways, so a defensive guy that shoots, but that kind of player is what everyone wants really.

uncool
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votes: 5

Silver gave some reassurance to my biggest fear in the Sterling timeline (free agency).

http://www.nba.com/2014/news/06/13/clip ... ef:nbahpts

ClipperKyle32
CTB MVP X1
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Lol Sign Allen and Pierce. Have Doc as coach. Re-create that 2008 Finals team and win it all lol. I wouldn't mind Pierce though. I woulndt mind Allen if we didn't have JJ.

Jerediscool
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Bird mans gonna be a free agent.i wouldn't mind him as a backup big

ClipperKyle32
CTB MVP X1
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37 years old??? Ehhh I guess. I still want us to sign Elton Brand and him go out as a Clipper. Who Knows

namzug
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Sefolosha and Livingston are on top of my Clipper wish list. That would add some length and size to our guard rotation. Both are versatile and can play two positions convincingly. Vince Carter would also be a good option in place of Sefolosha. I also would like Jordan Hill too, unless we can trade for Channing Frye.

I'd like for us to bring in an Earl Clark to training Camp and see if there is something there.

As far as Small Forwards go, I think the only real option here is a trade. Whether that be a Sign and Trade or just straight up trade. Wilson Chandler, Chandler Parsons, Jeff Green, and the sign and trade options of Deng or Ariza all seem like good fits. Likely trade pieces JJ or Jamal plus Matt or Duds and very likely to have to include Reggie depending what's coming back.

pageC4
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There may be a silver linning to this situation. Supposedly, Dudley is trying to eat healthy to get back to his old form, and if this should happen (which I doubt) we may find a sucker to trade with.

Clippers_FTW
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Or we might be the suckers and keep him

Agent0
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Totally agree, Sefolosha and Livingston would be great dual position guys who compliment our current players, give us length, help the defense and should be affordable. I would love to get both of them AND Vince, using the BAE for Vince.

Of course in getting Vince, that will set us up to move Crawford for a big or a starting caliber SF as Vince can take the role of bench scorer/creator.

I have no issues with giving Clark a training camp invite, why not, right? Also those are good trade options for SF's. Of course the question is what kind of players is Doc looking at.

Agent0
CTB MVP X1
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....but is his knee okay? Cause if that's still an issue, then it might be an issue, but if he gets good rest and then stays in good shape, it should be.

ClipSince7thGrade
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Reports are coming in now the Greg Oden was kept out of the last part of the season because of a sever back injury. I still think that the Clips should take a risk on him but put an early termination in his contract.

ClipSince7thGrade
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I love the idea of Shaun Livingston coming back to the Clips. He'd be great for us off the bench and like you said would definitely give us some needed length and height in our guard rotation. Sefolosha on the other hand not so much, he wasn't that great to begin with and the way he's playing now is just not cutting it for me, even as a bench player. Vince Carter I'd enjoy on the team but it seems that he really wants to stay in Dallas and if he doesn't stay there the only place I see him going is Toronto. Picking up Jordan Hill is a great option, love his effort on both ends of the court and it seems like he has a lot of untapped potential defensively..offensively though I think he's pretty much hit his ceiling. Chris Anderson opting out of his contract with Miami is great for us and we need to try to get Anderson on our team. Inviting Earl Clark to training camp couldn't hurt anything. If anything he's a great third string power forward option. I don't think we need to trade JJ Jamal or Matt, Dudley I agree but that won't come till later on most likely during the season. I think that picking up Paul Pierce and hoping that Danny Granger picks up his option we'd be set. Then of course there's the long shot of us getting Carmelo Anthony via sign and trade but that leaves us with basically nothing to fill out the rest of the roster.

ClipSince7thGrade
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Don't need to trade DJ, already crunched numbers. Just need to dump Dudley and Bullock. Then have Davis and Collison not pick up their options. Can then sign Melo to a 30mil 3 year deal, at the end of Melo's projected contract Blake and Chris have player options where the money can then be renegotiated and distributed evenly amongst themselves and possibly DJ. Getting Melo is a huge possibility and there's no reason why we can't make it happen. Like I said before though, we will be strapped for for cash to fill out the rest of the roster.

ClipperKyle32
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So we keep Gentry , but we can replace Lue with Frank? I can dig that

CapsNClips
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It's not just about clearing $10 mil. You have to clear $10 mil under the cap. That would mean we have to trade DJ, Jamal, Dudley for only draft picks and not re-sign Willie and Davis which puts our salary at $53,872,731

The projected salary cap is $63,200,000 which means we actually have less than $10 a year to give Melo and we wouldn't have DJ, Jamal, Dudley, Green and Davis.

The only real way we get Melo is by a sign & trade with NYK involving DJ or signing Melo with our Full MLE which is $5.2 mil a year.

ClipSince7thGrade
Clipper Starter
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You're right, didn't realize that. I'm completely against DJ being part of any trade we conduct. Highly doubt Melo would take 5.2 mil a year but with endorsement deals and added exposure with being in LA may out weigh the smaller pay.

cashdld
Clipper Starter
Posts: 407
votes: 3

I wouldn't want to trade Jordan either but if we are looking at clearing cap for Melo or lebron I wouldn't mind trading him to pistons for drummond, who essentially can fill the same role for cheaper. Possibly a 3 team trade with a team like the suns/pistons

clippers32
Posts: 67
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I'm not to hung on the fact of signing Melo. At least not at the expense of trading DJ. Isn't Melo 1 dimensional? All offense and no "D". I think that if we are going to go all out to get another star then it would have to be just Lebron. I just read in a recent statement that Lebron said if he decides to opt out then, its not about the money and he's not just looking for teams with cap space. He makes 100 million in endorsements alone. He's looking for the best fit for him and his family. Then Chris Brossaurd comes out and says in a report that Lebrons wife told him that she always wanted to live in LA, and if Lebron wanted to, he could force his way to the Clippers if he really wanted to get there. And we wouldn't have to loose anyone. He's willing to take a major pay cut to enhance his options of winning" Rings". Not just a ring. But many. And no place is better than the LA Clippers to do so. So if i have a superstar, that is not looking to get paid a lot, doesn't care if a team has cap space or not, and your kids God Father is the PG of the Clippers, and your wife wants to live here, then.....why not go all out to get that guy. I'm just saying. This is just my opinion. Now. If none of this works out, then I'm ok with settling with just Pierce coming over to play SF with Barnes coming off the bench. But not Melo. Love the guy, respect his game, but just doesn't fit with our system and a ball dominant PG.

Andrew818
Clipper Starter
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votes: 11

If Clippers are serious about signing Lebron I would trade DJ to PHX for Miles Plumlee who have the cap space.Trade Dudley and our 1st rounder to the 76ers to get him off the books.Trade Barnes and Bullock together to a team with cap space and waive Willie.Then sign Lebron to a Max contract,use our MLE to sign Paul Peirce,and if we have our BAE use it to sign Birdman,Jermaine O'neal,Chris Kaman,or Emeka Okafor.Also sign Toney Douglas and Drew Gooden for the min.I think if we do that we would be the favorites to win the title because we would have a great roster under a great head coach.

PG:CP3,Douglas

SG:Redick,Crawford

SF:Lebron,Peirce

PF:Blake,Gooden

C:Plumlee,Birdman/O'neal/Kaman/Okafor

ClippersDA
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I wouldn't trade miles for dj.:.why should Phoenix?

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