Free Agents Ideas for Clippers (P. 85)

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ClipSince7thGrade
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ClipperKyle32 wrote:

Woj says that may determine whether or not they are in the run for Carmelo. So what are Melo's other options: Clippers, and Rockets? Maybe a few other teams with only a few having the chance to win

Clips are really the only option the Melo has. If Carmelo ended up with the Rockets we'd be watching the worst basketball with the highest level of talent. The ball would stick way too much. Carmelo, Dwight, and Harden are all DIVAS very quick to blame others and over all over rated. With the Clippers Melo would have the same kind of role he had with the US international team which would get him to produce the best numbers of his career. In Houston he can't do that. You have two guys that want the ball in their hands all the time already and didn't change the entire season and even post season. Adding a third ball holder isn't going to help out that team. I don't see the Harden-Howard tandem ever producing anything other than drama and stink faces. They need to add a veteran presence, Vince Carter would be a great option. Just to bring those guys back down to earth. Also I still think that Chicago is going to go after Carmelo, in my mind the Bulls are the absolute best fit for him with the Clippers being a very very close second.

CapsNClips
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If the Bulls are going after Afflalo does that mean Jimmy Butler is on the block?

ClipSince7thGrade
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Jimmy Butler has been on the block since the season ended. If the Bulls were to make any kind of move for Melo, JB was going to be involved as well. Chicago is ok with letting him go. I think he should become their starter

clippers32
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Love the lineup idea. But i would change just a few things. I would start Pierce over Granger due to the fact of Grangers injury and him not being back to All-Star form. And i honestly wouldn't mind us not keeping Granger because he playes no D. I think a SF rotation of Pierce and Barnes would be lethal. And i agree with the no no to Lebron and Melo. We already have two superstars in CP3 and Blake. We don't need a major lineup change. Just minor

ClipperKyle32
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Granger played Great D. He was only with the team for a few months. half the team still didn't grasp our defensive concepts by the end of the year. Granger played great D and team D. Defense is not about keeping your man from scoring. its about rotating, tipping passes and stealing them, being active with hands disrupting the opposing offense. Danny did a great job with that.

JQuick32
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That lineup would be another second-round exit waiting to happen for multiple reasons:

  1. Relying on washed-up Granger and 80-year-old Pierce at the 3.

  2. CP3 would still be dominating the ball... recipe for a choke.

  3. Jamal still around to ruin any semblance of an offense when he checks in by hogging, chucking, and bricking while not playing defense or getting boards.

  4. If we get stuck with Mo again as the backup PG, we'd be even more screwed in the playoffs since he's a team cancer in the postseason.

Agent0
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I have to agree on some of the points. First the bringing back Mo Williams, please no, second is starting Danny Granger, despite Kyle's vouching for him, Granger's defense wasn't great because fouling isn't great defense. Granger was okay on defense, but no better than Barnes or even Dudley during the time he was with us, just fouled way too much. Granger's offense was okay in the regular season but awful all playoffs, I'm not sure how all this equals "great".

That said, I have no problem with bringing Granger back but he'd have to earn a starting spot in training camp, certainly not just having it handed to him. If we don't move Barnes or Dudley and we don't see Granger as being the solution at SF, then he won't be back as it just doesn't make sense to have 4 SF's on the roster.

We can't possibly get both Jordan Hill and Pierce AND still get a good backup PG without trades of some guys you still have on the team. Jordan Hill is fairly young and teams want him, he'll make at the LEAST the MLE. So if we were to get him, that's the full MLE. I can't see how his agent won't be able to convince someone to give him $7M, but we'll see. Let's say Pierce agrees to come for the $2M BAE or part MLE (that won't be easy), all we have left are minimum contracts. We aren't going to get players other teams deem valuable by just trading the guys we don't really want. We just can't get all those players without moving something / someone valuable, there are restrictions in free agency.

ClipperKyle32
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He was coming off a hammy injury in the playoffs so I can understand that. Regular Season , maybe great wasn't the best word , but it was certainly better than what we were getting from Duds giving up and-1s and soft fouls. Granger had his lapses as well.

I might have to a Healthy Granger over Barnes about now. I love Barnes though. I wish we could keep both and sign a Deng or Ariza maybe Melo , but I believe its slim. I think Granger was a bit underrated while he was here. He wasn't the best , but he showed flashes on both ends more than I ever saw from Dudley

ClipSince7thGrade
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Clipper Kyle has already spoken for me as far Danny Granger's performance. Second I really do believe that we can get Paul Pierce for a mil a season. He has two more good seasons left in him and I'm sure he knows that. I think being able to come home to LA, play under Doc again, play along side the rest of the Clippers, and having a great opportunity to be part of a win now team will lure Pierce. He's mature enough to realize that there's other places of concern and I'm almost positive he'd be willing to take a pay cut that large. Jared Dudley will be getting moved, for money if we can. Jordan Hill is going to be a hard sign but that's why I have Carlos Boozer as an option as well who won't be getting offered big money so we can probably get him with the VM or part of the MLE, though Hill might not be completely realistic, having him as our back up PF is would I'd prefer.

ClipSince7thGrade
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Just have to say that also Danny Granger was coming back from a string of injuries he was dealing with while in Indiana, he didn't play a whole lot and what we got out of him was great. If he can stay healthy this season he can be big for us.

ClipperKyle32
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I just do not see Chicago amnestying him , but he could be a serviceable backup. If we could possibly get Boozer and have Pierce coming off the bench with Delonte,Shaun, or Darren and Jamal I think all we need is a defensive center like Brendan Haywood

Agent0
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I think that is the issue.

1) How healthy can Granger be moving forward?

2) Can Granger remain healthy for a whole season?

We really don't know, so we certainly can't just plug in Granger as our starting SF and be content because there's no history to go off except for injuries right now. We also can't base our judgment of him on a 12 game sample during the regular season because it is too small. If he played more games, he could have sucked the next 12 games and then it doesn't look so good. If we get the wrong answers to those questions, we put ourselves in a bad situation by having Granger as our starting SF, though of course if we get Pierce, then we're good.

Then again, if we get Pierce, why bother keeping Granger who opted out and seemingly wants to test the marker for more money when we are already paying Barnes $3M or so?

Agent0
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Yes, we could technically get Pierce for the minimum, but Pierce knows we have the MLE, so his question would be why aren't we offering him the MLE or at least part of it? Dudley getting moved for money doesn't do anything for us because we're already over the cap either way. It doesn't give us more room to sign players.

I don't think Boozer is at the stage in his career where he is going to take the minimum, but Boozer isn't a good option for us, he's a poor defender, not a C and just not a good fit on this team, so I don't think we'd even want him anyways.

Our three ways of signing players:

MLE = $5.3M (can be split into multiple players)

BAE = $2.1M

Min = $900K to $1.4M depending on how long the players has been in the league

After those three exceptions, any other signing we make will have to be through a sign and trade, we can't clear cap space to be able to sign any players outright without an exception.

tense2
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He's been injury prone for while now. He not even close to the early version of himself any longer and going into his 30's won't help. We can do better for the same $. Next.

P.S.

Great defense (as someone alluded to) and Granger are not synonymous, lol. He's slightly above average at best now days.

ClipperKyle32
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Why are we listed as options for LeBron , but not for Melo. I'd assume LeBron Is worth significantly more than Melo.

I think we are under the radar which can very well be a good thing. I still think we are an option for Melo

ClipperKyle32
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Frye Any1

=Om@R=
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What are the chances of getting bron or melo to be realistic ?

CapsNClips
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ClipperKyle32 wrote:

Frye Any1

Yes please. I'm not sure who I want more though. Pau or Frye.

ClipperKyle32
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USA choked like the Clippers in Game 5. Jk

clippers32
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Both chances are realistic. Lebron could force his way to the Clippers if he really really wanted to. By either a trade or a pay cut. He said numerous of times that its not about the money, he just wants to win rings. So if he really means that, then he would be willing to take whatever the Clippers can afford to pay him to come over. Melo is not a difficult task as well. We can shed salary or do a sign and trade to get Melo as well. A package of maybe Jamal Crawford, Willie Green, Jared Dudley, and a future first round pick would be very enticing to the Knicks and Phil Jackson. So both options are possible. Its really how bad both sides want to get it done. From the Melo camp or Lebron camp. But to think and say its not possible to acquire either Lebron or Melo, then that's naive. Anything is possible.

ClipperKyle32
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...

Honestly I wonder if KG retires and comes to the Clips as a coach. He would be coaching Pierce. Maybe Allen coaches as well. Doc reunites his team just in the bench with Pierce still playing. That would be hilarious. Replace Ty Lue and Gentry with Allen and Allen and KG. Jk

I like the thought of KG though. idk how Melo would like that though

clipper*joe
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Force his way to the Clippers? You mean forcing Riley to sign and trade him? I highly doubt Riley will eat up that salary with what we can offer just so he gets something in return. I'm not sure LeBron is not about the money. He made it clear that he wants to be the first billionaire athlete a while back. He's also mad that Micky Arison wants the big three to take pay cuts to keep them together. He's about the money. LeBron is NOT going to take a 5 million a year contract so we can forget about that.

Melo is also a tough task, not an easy one. Crawford, Green, Dudley, and a future round pick doesn't get you Melo either. The money doesn't come close to what he'll be making. Plus, that package will get you laughed at by Phil Jackson. Finally, anyone who thinks your package will get either Melo, or LBJ is being naive. Anything is not always possible. Try putting a square peg in a round hole...

clipper*joe
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NO-MORE-CELTICS in any capacity!

renshaibob
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no more old players, we need some athlete's on the wing. I hate the warriors but they are going to be a lot better next year and play at a faster pace and we will need an athleteic wing player with some height to counteract that. we need a wing player that can run with BG and DJ and let CP bring up the rear rested and ready to run a play. When BG and DJ is running the court no one can keep pace with them. And please god tell me they have DJ and BG working on post game and DJ working on bank shots from the post.

Agent0
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ClipperKyle32 wrote:

Frye Any1

Wow, didn't expect that, but I think he's trying to get long term security over the money next year. We'd need to fork over at least $5M/year. Maybe give him years over salary amount.

Caps, I'd take Frye over Gasol because he'll be more willing to a accept the 6th man role, I like his 3PT shooting and I think Gasol will be out of our price range. For example, Dallas is going after Gasol. Dallas only has $27M in contracts on their books next season. Dirk is a FA, they'll probably get him on a discount, like $12-13M range which will put them at $39-40M and a good $20M under the cap. They can give Pau $9-10M and still have room to sign another player for $9-10M while being under the cap.

They are in a decent situation since Dirk won't be re-signing at $22M

  • As stretch four with big role in Suns' surprising season, Frye said to be on radar of both Warriors & Cavs if he indeed opts for free agency

Stupid Warriors. The Gentry connection would be really nice right about now.

renshaibob
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Oh and we have to have 1 of our wing players that can attack the damn rim, Slash and attack bigs at the rim. keep pressure on a defense. for instance if you have JJ out there then our SF should be able to create enough to get to the rim attacking, it would actually open JJ up more and our team would be more of a threat against any defense and we could react better to any off nights.

ClippersDA
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Is no one on the clippers radar?

slestack11
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Donald Sterling is on the Clippers radar.

uncool
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Trade Dudley in some way.

Full MLE to Channing Frye. 3 year, $15.6 mil.

Full BAE to Darren Collison. 2 year, $5 mil. Player Option 2nd year.

Convince Dujuan Blair or Birdman to take minimum.

Maybe we could package Duds & Barnes for a stronger SF...

CP/DC

JJ/Jamal

Defensive PF/Pierce

BG/Blair/Frye

DJ/Frye or Birdman

Clippers_FTW
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Carmelo please. I just can't get over it. I want Carmelo on this team. NOW!

clips4life32
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If CP3 helps convince Melo or LeBron to take less money to come to the Clippers, it will help erase the horrible ending of Game 5, LOL. As much as I want one of these guys to be a Clipper this summer, it seems far fetched. Most of these sports writers are not even mentioning the Clippers as a possible destination.

clippers32
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Try selling your comment to someone else who doesn't know the business side of the game. The NBA is a players league any superstar player if they want could force themselves where ever they desire. Example. Dwight Howard. Example. The now Kevin Love. Example. ..CP3. Example. ..Melo when he was with the nuggets.Shall i continue? Superstar players have a way of getting there way when they want to. And its about winning with Lebron. He's spoiled. He has been in the NBA Finals for the past 4 years! That's all he knows. Plus Lebron James makes over 100 million dollars in endorsements alone. That Is why he made the comment that its not about money when it comes to a contract. He just wants to win. So if he really wanted to. He could opt out and come to the Clippers. Weather its through a trade or a pay cut. The same for Melo. Now is that likely to happen? Probably not. But don't be naive and say it's impossible. We most likely will end up with Pierce or someone. But the scenarios i explained could happen.

clipper*joe
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I'm not selling anything, I am just being a pragmatist. By the way, your examples are horrible aside from Melo. Howard wanted to go to the Nets as his first choice but ended up on the Lakers. He left after one year...First strike. CP3 wanted to go to the Lakers (brother confirmed it on CNN) but ended up with us....Strike 2. Kevin Love hasn't been traded and judging by his recent trip to Boston, if he isn't traded there...Strike 3. So you can continue all you want but you might want to drop that shovel cause the hole you're digging is getting pretty deep. Players can get teams to trade them but very rarely do they end up where they want. Like I said, anything can happen but do you honestly think LeBron would take 5 Million and come to a team where his teammates would be making 65-75% more than he is a season? Try peddling your pipe dream to someone gullible, it ain't happening.

namzug
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I'd love for KG to come on as a coach. I'm not high on any other of the old big 3 to come here though in any capacity.

I'd love to get Frye here, and think he would be worth MLE, but we would have to solidify the 3 spot somehow (don't really think the MLE was going to do that anyway). If we can somehow get Livingston or Vasquez to come here for the BAE then that would be great too. I think Vasquez wouldn't be a bad option and can play either guard spot, we all know the same holds true for Livingston. I wouldn't be comfortable going into next season with Pierce and Barnes as our 3 spot rotation.

I'd like for us to work out a trade and get a guy like Wilson Chandler or a Jeff Green type player. I'm hoping we squeeze in on a trade involving Carmelo or Love and get something when a team needs to trade away salary. I think Jeff Green would be possible if Boston gets Love. I think Shumpert can be had too in a Carmelo trade, but it would probably take Reggie.

Sefolosha could be a great option. If OKC trades for Iman, he will likely have a chip on his shoulder and want to show them up.

sz123456
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I'm all about bringing Sefolosha here as well. I think a different coach and change of scenery is just what he needs, his skill set would help us.

ClipperKyle32
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^^^^^ why do people want Sefolosha and Not Shumpert? Real Question? What's the difference

ClipperKyle32
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clippers32
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You should really try studying your so called facts out before you comment. CP3 never wanted to go to the Lakers, and that came out of his own mouth! He was going to get traded there....not by choice. ..but by contract.... because at the time that is what New Orleans and the Lakers thought was best for there organizations at that time. But he CHOSE to come to the Clippers. Same scenario with Dwight. He was traded to the Lakers. ..not by choice. But by contract. Yes he first expressed interest in Brooklyn, but Orlando didn't like the package they were offering. So they traded him to LA because they had a sweeter deal. He then, CHOSE Houston after he left the Laker bums. Know the differences between choosing and not having a choice. Both players convinced there agents and respected teams to be at there current destinations now. Anyway back to the point. Like i said, my scenarios i explained are more then possible. But is it likely to happen? Most likely not. So ill give you that. But it is possible. And we would pay LeBron more than five million by the way. And its a contradiction to a persons statement to state, that its not about money, but then look for money. Why would he contradict himself. Just doesn't make sense. I'm just going by what the man said out of his own mouth. Dude, makes over 100 million dollars in endorsements. So a contract payday may not be on his radar. He's just trying to define his legacy. And trying to figure out the place to do it. So that's that. I'm entitled to my own opinion just like you. But i bring facts to the table. You just have an opinion. If Melo or Lebron really desperately wanted to, they could force there way to the Clippers. By whatever means necessary to get it done.

namzug
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@ClipperKyle32, I don't think it's about wanting Sef over Shump; for me it's just not wanting to get into a bidding war with OKC. Shump looks like a younger (and in my opinion more dynamic) version of Sefolosha. If we could get Shump I think we should jump on it, but it depends what NY is trying to get and what OKC is offering for him.

I do like that Sefolosha could come back with a chip on his shoulder in regards to OKC.

clipper*joe
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That makes no sense! You're implying my facts are incorrect, right? So if I try studying my "so-called" facts before I comment, wouldn't they still come back incorrect?...Duh!

Anyway, lets get down to your so-called facts: CP3 was happy he was going to the Lakers and if you looked at his twitter at the time they nixed the deal, he was mad. Just by the fact that CP3 never agreed to the Clippers trade from the start, tells you he didn't want to come here unless we made changes for him. Overpaying for Butler was one of them. Overpaying for DJ by matching GS's offer sheet was another. Only then did he commit to not opting out of his contract and coming here. Want to know why I know CP3 wanted the Lakers over the Clippers from the start? On the day the DTS story broke, when we had to play on Sunday, CNN interviewed CP3's brother. He said that this was CP3's second worst news he received aside from the NBA nixing his deal to the Lakers. I posted this on the DTS thread as soon as I watched it. Look it up. His brother has no reason to lie but CP3 does. Cp3 is one of the best politicians we have in the NBA so I'll go with the one who has no skin in the game for the truth.

The rest of your rant is equivalent a guy realizing he doesn't know what he's talking about so he's stuttering his way to make sense. You're know changing the context of what you meant by "chose".

here is what you said:

"The NBA is a players league any superstar player if they want could force themselves where ever they desire. Example. Dwight Howard. Example. The now Kevin Love. Example. ..CP3. Example. ..Melo when he was with the nuggets. Shall i continue? Superstar players have a way of getting there way when they want to."

So Howard got his WAY by choosing to go to a team he didn't want to go to? Did CP3 go to the team he really wanted to go to? Or are you confusing "chose" with "settle"? Looking at your quote above that I bolded, it seems to me both players settled on teams they weren't sure about. The reason why they setttled cause there was no going back to their respected teams. they had to get out and if given the choice, Howard would have ended up a Net and CP3 a Laker. Those are the plain facts. They forced themselves out like a superstar, but they didn't end up "wherever they disired". lol

Love how you tried to spin what you originally said. Good try, but I got you.

sz123456
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I like both players, but I'm a little iffy on Shumpert guarding the SF spot, he's a little too short.

uncool
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My value of the 28th pick isn't very high. I'd give up the pick to the Lakers if they S&T Jordan Hill to us for Dudley! Hill gets 3 years/$18 mil

Lakers get Dudley & 28th pick

Clippers get Jordan Hill at $6 mill annually

Clips still have MLE & BAE

Collison gets BAE

Paul/Collison

JJ/Crawford

MLE?Ariza?/Barnes

Blake/Jordan Hill

DJ/MLE?

namzug
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Iman is listed at 6'5 and so is Sefolosha, and they are only a few pounds off of each other. I think if we get either that means JJ or Jamal are going on a one way trip somewhere else.

I think Ariza will be getting more than the MLE, but think that a sign and trade is possible. We would have to unload Duds and probably one of Jamal or JJ's deals in the trade.

Hill could back up either big spot in my opinion. I wouldn't feel terrible going into the season with Hedo backing up Blake, and Hill backing up DJ. Then we could shorten up the rotation come the playoffs. Hill isn't the most intimidating force in the paint but he does average 1.5 blocks per 36.

uncool
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Hill's activity on the glass is what excites me. And averaging 9 pts in 20 mpg would be a great fit. If we can't do a S&T I'd be happy to give him the MLE.

clippers32
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The sarcasm is great! But let me educate you on something. CP3 had a players option back when he was with New Orleans. Which means that he can choose to return to the team, or be traded, or pick a team of your choice that best fit your family's financial situation. Now this was the back then when the NBA owned New Orleans. He could of returned to the team but CHOSE not to. So then he told his agent to force a trade somewhere because he wasn't happy there in New Orleans anymore. At that time, New Orleans and the Lakers were discussing a trade that involved, Lamar Odom, Pau Gasol, CP3, etc. Now everyone has there opinion why Stern nixed the trade. I happen to know. Like many other members here on CTB i have personal best friends that play in the NBA and on the Clippers. So while your getting your info from television, and sportscenter, i hang out with these guys. Because i played on a professional level myself back in the day overseas and etc. So i kinda have alittle inside scoop on things. Now, weather you believe me or this is important to you or not i could care less. But i do know my facts and i do know my team. CP3 was in a forced trade to come to the Lakers because at that time the lakers had the best trade package proposal to offer better than any team. But due to the financial incapability by both teams the trade was rescinded. He could of CHOSE to return to New Orleans or go to any other team. But he had CHOSEN to come to the Clippers because of first.... Blake Griffin, which led to Caron Butler, which led to Chauncey Billups, and etc, at that time. So there you have it my friend. Those are FACTS for you. He never chose the Lakers. He was traded there. But the money from both sides didn't add up. So keep reading your articles, watching tv, and listening to the radio. Lol..I'll keep you posted from the inside. Lol.

Dunkathon
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ClipperKyle32 wrote:

I like Blatche. Maybe we should give him a look

Blatche and Frye would be perfect for the Clippers as big men. Channing as a floor spacer, Blatche as a more traditional center with some midrange.

clipper*joe
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I don't care what you did or who you think you hang with, amongst all that stuff you wrote in there lies your contradiction to this quote YOU wrote. You manage to write a lot of stuff thinking people will forget what you actually wrote. But the bottom line, they settled as a CHOICE. They chose to not come back, but for the last time, they didn't go wherever they desired like you originally wrote. lol

"The NBA is a players league any superstar player if they want could force themselves where ever they desire. Example. Dwight Howard. Example. The now Kevin Love. Example. ..CP3. Example. ..Melo when he was with the nuggets. Shall i continue? Superstar players have a way of getting there way when they want to."

clipper*joe
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Chauncey Billups had to come here cause we had the highest bid and STILL didn't want to play for us...Get your facts straight or call Chauncey personally since you have the inside scoop. lol

Also, Butler came here cause Olshey said if he'd sign with us, CP3 would follow...Get your facts staright.

OK, CP3 didn't "CHOOSE" the Lakers or Clippers...I'll go with that. But now you seem even more clueless since you used him as example of someone of his stature forcing a team to trade him where he desires:

"The NBA is a players league any superstar player if they want could force themselves where ever they desire. Example. Dwight Howard. Example. The now Kevin Love. Example. ..CP3. Example. ..Melo when he was with the nuggets. Shall i continue? Superstar players have a way of getting there way when they want to."

By the way, why are you using Love as an example? he hasn't forced a trade somewhere he desires. You can't even make a good argument.

tense2
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Simple, Sefolosha is better and less injury prone.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... mp;y2=2014

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... mp;y2=2014

http://www.82games.com/1314/13OKC8.HTM

http://www.82games.com/1314/13NYK6.HTM

namzug
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Location: So Cal
votes: 10

If you look at where they are in their careers you might be able to say the opposite. They are very similar players. It might depend on what you think their immediate future and next few years look like when determining who is better for us at this point.

I think they are close enough, and if one could be had with less hassle than the other then I'd go for that one. If we can sign Sef to a 2-3 year decent deal I might be more inclined rather than trading for Shump for a one year deal.

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