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laclippers
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Post subject: I Can't See How We're Better; Please Convince Me Otherwise=)
 Posted: Jul 23, 2008 - 09:39 PM PST
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Clipper Starter
Joined: Dec 05, 2007
Posts: 526
Location: Los Angeles, California
  
votes: 4
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At this point I can't see how we're better. I think we're close to the same as how we were off before the offseason, which isn't bad.
I mean Baron and Camby < Brand and maggette.
You could make an argument for Davis>Brand, but I fail to see that Maggette<Camby.
I really want to see all the prospects so I hope you guys can open my eyes a little more. Thanks! |
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Dedicated to the Clippers. Now. Forever. Always.
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sz123456
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Post subject: RE: I Can't See How We're Better; Please Convince Me Otherwi
Posted: Jul 23, 2008 - 09:50 PM PST
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Clipper 6th Man
Joined: Jul 12, 2008
Posts: 241
votes: 2
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| If i had a choice between Azubuike and maggette, it's almost a toss up, Maggette isn't that great of a player, he just draws fouls, anyone can do that |
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clipper*joe
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Post subject: RE: I Can't See How We're Better; Please Convince Me Otherwi
Posted: Jul 23, 2008 - 10:03 PM PST
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Clipper All-Star
Joined: Jul 26, 2007 Age: 41
Posts: 1082
Location: los angeles
votes: 23
Status: Offline
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If you can't see it, I can't can't make you see it. But I'll give it a try.
Baron Davis alone is an upgrade for the team. He averages over 8 ASSISTS while getting his 22 points and 5 rebounds. With a leader like that, he is bound to make any mediocre player good.
Brand & Maggette will be missed but their offense will be split by Camby, Kaman, Thornton , Mobely, TT , Buke (hopefully), Gordon and now Jason Hart.
Both were assets but we are now deeper ( Key to success) and better on defense as a result. Don't look at it
as swaps but rather as a team. Our bench and defense will is the reason why we are better. It's not hard to see really. |
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scudsy
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Post subject: RE: I Can't See How We're Better; Please Convince Me Otherwi
Posted: Jul 23, 2008 - 10:04 PM PST
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Clipper 6th Man
Joined: Jun 22, 2008
Posts: 163
votes: 3
Status: Offline
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Brand = Davis
Camby > Maggette
Camby is great all around and has great D, Maggette is clumsy and makes bad passes and decisions, plus if we land Buike that is our fill in for maggette. plus Eric Gordon also showed he can get to the foul line at will. |
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clipperfan909
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Post subject: Re: RE: I Can't See How We're Better; Please Convince Me Oth
Posted: Jul 23, 2008 - 10:20 PM PST
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Clipper 6th Man
Joined: Dec 18, 2006
Posts: 218
votes: 9
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clipper*joe wrote:
Don't look at it as swaps but rather as a team.
Perfectly said Clipper Joe!
When you're comparing our old roster to our new roster, you can't compare individual players, but the team as a whole from then to now.
To say Baron+Camby+Kaz is better or worse than Brand and Maggette is not a valid argument. You have to look at how these additions and subtractions have changed our team. Let's break it down:
1. The PG is become increasingly valuable in today's NBA. For example, most scouts would agree that Michael Beasley is a better player than Derrick Rose; however, the same scouts would not all agree that Beasley is a better pick/player for a team. That's why a team like Chicago who needed Beasley more than Rose still picked Rose because of how a PG can carry a team (e.g. Deron Williams & Chris Paul). With Baron Davis we have a premier PG that is a vocal leader with playoff experience that can carry us to the next level.
2. Losing Corey Maggette was a blessing in disguise/addition by subtraction. His 20ppg will definitely be missed; however, with his departure it frees up Thornton to have more control of the ball, it allows Gordon more playing time to develop, and it gives us the ability to have Kaz as a legit 6th man.
3. Brand will be greatly missed (the player not the person), it's hard to replace 20 and 10 with consistent offense and defense. However, adding Camby is not a bad replacement. Camby can give us 10 and 10 and 3 and can allow Kaman to focus on scoring.
Overall we did lose a great deal in Brand and Maggette, but with this new team and new lineup we have great players and put other players in the situation to be great.
Conclusion: Clippers Rule! |
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NUMB3RFIFTY
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Post subject: RE: I Can't See How We're Better; Please Convince Me Otherwi
Posted: Jul 23, 2008 - 10:23 PM PST
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Clipper 6th Man
Joined: Jul 10, 2008
Posts: 169
votes: 3
Status: Offline
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I can see how your confidence is weak about the moves this offseason because i understand your thought process. It's a point of view i also held until i took a step back and looked at the big picture. I shared your point of view because it felt like a step backwards to me to be losing young talented players for a couple of old farts (baron is less old lol.) The fact of the matter is, In addition to adding experience, a firecracker at PG (regardless of his age) and a Defensive player of the year who even at his age STILL had bomb numbers last season.
Brand and Maggette leaving was a blessing: Our players, team image and style of play was getting very stale. If everybody stayed, i would be watching the TV expecting the same old Clippers.
Camby replacing Brand gave us something we didnt previously have...CLOUT. Marcus camby is a name that is respected across the league and adding him with one of the leagues true young centers means one thing... The clippers are having a Block Party, and You're invited.
Azabuike + Thornton: The two most promising SF prospects in the league. (only other one i can think of is Thaddeus Young from Philly)
DeAndre Jordan: an absolute 100% steal in the second round of the draft and you know what? Camby and Kaman will be training him.
Maybe the rest of the people on this forum can complete the list of things we have to look forward to, but i'll end my list with...
TT's, Camby's, Mobley's and Hart's (if hart takes the player option and opts out) CONTRACTS WILL BE EXPIRING. Somewhere between 23 and 26 million dollars in cap room will open up. And guess who's available as an UNRESTRICTED free agent in 2010... Wade, Stoudemire, Lebron (he's going to NY), Dirk, and most importantly BOSH.
We have a lot to look forward to.
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NUMB3RFIFTY
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Post subject: RE: I Can't See How We're Better; Please Convince Me Otherwi
Posted: Jul 23, 2008 - 10:24 PM PST
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Clipper 6th Man
Joined: Jul 10, 2008
Posts: 169
votes: 3
Status: Offline
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| clipperfan909 you beat me to it on point #2 lol |
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Post subject: Re: RE: I Can't See How We're Better; Please Convince Me Oth
Posted: Jul 23, 2008 - 10:38 PM PST
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Clipper Starter
Joined: Jun 04, 2008
Posts: 456
Location: Los Angeles
votes: 8
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clipperfan909 wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
Don't look at it as swaps but rather as a team.
Perfectly said Clipper Joe!
When you're comparing our old roster to our new roster, you can't compare individual players, but the team as a whole from then to now.
To say Baron+Camby+Kaz is better or worse than Brand and Maggette is not a valid argument. You have to look at how these additions and subtractions have changed our team. Let's break it down:
1. The PG is become increasingly valuable in today's NBA. For example, most scouts would agree that Michael Beasley is a better player than Derrick Rose; however, the same scouts would not all agree that Beasley is a better pick/player for a team. That's why a team like Chicago who needed Beasley more than Rose still picked Rose because of how a PG can carry a team (e.g. Deron Williams & Chris Paul). With Baron Davis we have a premier PG that is a vocal leader with playoff experience that can carry us to the next level.
2. Losing Corey Maggette was a blessing in disguise/addition by subtraction. His 20ppg will definitely be missed; however, with his departure it frees up Thornton to have more control of the ball, it allows Gordon more playing time to develop, and it gives us the ability to have Kaz as a legit 6th man.
3. Brand will be greatly missed (the player not the person), it's hard to replace 20 and 10 with consistent offense and defense. However, adding Camby is not a bad replacement. Camby can give us 10 and 10 and 3 and can allow Kaman to focus on scoring.
Overall we did lose a great deal in Brand and Maggette, but with this new team and new lineup we have great players and put other players in the situation to be great.
Conclusion: Clippers Rule!
Well said. |
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Knock on wood!
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toohipcliptoslip
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 23, 2008 - 10:43 PM PST
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Clipper Starter
Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 585
votes: 6
Status: Offline
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| Kaman will be better. Most of us were willing to trade Corey straight up for Calderon I think (senior moment) Wew're better off without him. I much prefer Al. BD is better than Sam who was hurt a lot and sorry he's better than Shaun would be this yr. At SG if Gordon pans out Wow!! and we still have Cat. Is what's is name better then Camby. Yes but Camby ain't chopped liver. We've upgraded every position over the playoff yr except PF and we should have a decent bench. I salivate |
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clipper*joe
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Post subject: Re: RE: I Can't See How We're Better; Please Convince Me Oth
Posted: Jul 23, 2008 - 10:46 PM PST
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Clipper All-Star
Joined: Jul 26, 2007 Age: 41
Posts: 1082
Location: los angeles
votes: 23
Status: Offline
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clipperfan909 wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
Don't look at it as swaps but rather as a team.
Perfectly said Clipper Joe!
When you're comparing our old roster to our new roster, you can't compare individual players, but the team as a whole from then to now.
To say Baron+Camby+Kaz is better or worse than Brand and Maggette is not a valid argument. You have to look at how these additions and subtractions have changed our team. Let's break it down:
1. The PG is become increasingly valuable in today's NBA. For example, most scouts would agree that Michael Beasley is a better player than Derrick Rose; however, the same scouts would not all agree that Beasley is a better pick/player for a team. That's why a team like Chicago who needed Beasley more than Rose still picked Rose because of how a PG can carry a team (e.g. Deron Williams & Chris Paul). With Baron Davis we have a premier PG that is a vocal leader with playoff experience that can carry us to the next level.
2. Losing Corey Maggette was a blessing in disguise/addition by subtraction. His 20ppg will definitely be missed; however, with his departure it frees up Thornton to have more control of the ball, it allows Gordon more playing time to develop, and it gives us the ability to have Kaz as a legit 6th man.
3. Brand will be greatly missed (the player not the person), it's hard to replace 20 and 10 with consistent offense and defense. However, adding Camby is not a bad replacement. Camby can give us 10 and 10 and 3 and can allow Kaman to focus on scoring.
Overall we did lose a great deal in Brand and Maggette, but with this new team and new lineup we have great players and put other players in the situation to be great.
Conclusion: Clippers Rule!
Nope, you said it best. You articulated what I couldn't . Kudos! |
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laclippers
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: I Can't See How We're Better; Please Convince Me
Posted: Jul 23, 2008 - 10:59 PM PST
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Clipper Starter
Joined: Dec 05, 2007
Posts: 526
Location: Los Angeles, California
votes: 4
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hmm... I guess this was more postive as a long-term change to the team. We were very lucky to get Jordan, definitely. It's just hard to move on from reliable 45 pt. combos of Brand and Maggette to new players whose chemistry is untested, and playing is yet to be seen. I think we'll know in the first 10 games, what this season will look like
thx guys |
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Dedicated to the Clippers. Now. Forever. Always.
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clipps04
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: I Can't See How We're Better; Please Convince Me
Posted: Jul 23, 2008 - 11:00 PM PST
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Clipper Starter
Joined: Nov 16, 2007 Age: 20
Posts: 957
votes: 8
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To go along with what everyone else has said, our team has become a lot deeper in talent and specialty players. Everyone we have brought on to this team brings a little of everything we need. Our bench continues to grow stronger and stronger.
Bench:
PG: Hart/Taylor
SG: Gordon/Bookie
SF: Bookie
PF: Thomas/(maybe Powell...do we still have him?)
C: Jordan/(maybe Davis)
That bench alone looks amazing, especially if Taylor, Jordan, and Bookie improve during the year. It's almost equivalent to our starting 5 last season lol.
Looking at this team on paper, I don't see why we shouldn't be kicking some serious a** this coming season. |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: I Can't See How We're Better; Please Convince Me
Posted: Jul 23, 2008 - 11:22 PM PST
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Clipper Starter
Joined: Apr 09, 2008
Posts: 583
Location: L.A
votes: 6
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| Because we have great point guard play. That can you take you far. If we are able to stay healthy we have the best interior defense in basketball. And the 2 of the top 5 in rebounds. Hopefully thorton who is 25 can score. If he can average 18-20 points were good. Camby may not be able to average 20 points but he may go for 13. And if cat is able to stay at around 16 we should be better just by defense. A great pg opens up the game. he can spread the floor make the game easier. Baron controls the ball so he can actually distribute points to the other players. TT played his best in this system. With buike we should have a better defender of the bench and he could score. And now that we have hart hopefully behind davis we have scoring. And if were able to add that big man we might be able to push ourselves to beyond 50 wins. Strong point guard play can work wonders. |
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Let the Baron Davis Era begin already.
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LAsonlyteam
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: I Can't See How We're Better; Please Convince Me
Posted: Jul 24, 2008 - 12:29 AM PST
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Clipper D-League Pickup
Joined: Jul 22, 2008
Posts: 28
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
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| It all starts with the point guard he is the leader/coach on the floor. We didn't have one last year come to think of it we haven't had one for a long time. Then you put in the presence of Camby, the versatilitie of Buke who is all heart and can play many positions, AL who is only getting better and a top 5 center that hopefully will be able to play the entire season and that to me is in improvement. This team is ganna be deadly. and im tired of hearing all this b.s. about our bench its a dam fin bench look @ the Celtics and what they did with there mediocre bench against the lakers who were stacked!!! |
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Dream Big or Don't Dream @ All
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Clippersfan86
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: I Can't See How We're Better; Please Convince Me
Posted: Jul 24, 2008 - 01:04 AM PST
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Clipper 6th Man
Joined: Jul 11, 2008
Posts: 186
votes: 1
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| Like alot of these guys are saying i think we are better this year. We added 3 potential filled rookies (first time i remember us drafting this much talent between 3 guys). An all star point guard who's good for 8-9 assists and 20 points and has a KILLER INSTINCT is MUCH more valuable than Brand's 20 and 10. Point guard is the most important position on the floor so Baron definitely is better fit than Brand for us. Camby vs Maggette?? You say maggette is better? Maggette may average 22 ppg this last year but Camby is a 10 points 11-14 rebound guy AND averaged 3.0 blocks per game OR MORE the last 3 years.. Defensive player of the year 07!!! More valuable than a pure scorer like Maggette |
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dwb
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 24, 2008 - 11:06 AM PST
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Clipper 6th Man
Joined: Jun 30, 2007
Posts: 189
votes: 13
Status: Offline
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| Corey was an excellent scorer, but he was also a momentum killer as far as ball movement. The ball got to him and he either shot it, or drove it to the basket. That was fine as far as it went, he could score, sure, but it didn't do much for the team concept offensively. This year, with the addition of Baron and Camby, both of whom are ball movement guys, everybody will get better looks, and more often. There are a lot of positives that result, over and above our just scoring points. Guys will enjoy the offense more because of the sharing, consequently they'll like playing together more and that by itself, that camaraderie should also transfer to the defensive effort. A defensive effort already considerably bolstered by the addition of Camby and Al's starting for the relatively defenseless Maggette. Good ball movement on offense, and tough team defense, these are the kinds of elements that lead to the development of that elusive team chemistry that separates the great squads from the good ones. |
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JamFan
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: I Can't See How We're Better; Please Convince Me
Posted: Jul 24, 2008 - 11:07 AM PST
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Clipper All-Star
Joined: Jul 26, 2005
Posts: 1036
votes: 13
Status: Offline
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| I was going to have a take, but ClipperJoe said it all. There is no doubt this is a better team, a more balanced team, and a deeper team. More balanced because we now have outside shooting to go along with the deep game. We sorely missed this for years. It opens things up. And when we go to our bench this year, we bring in Hart, KAZ, Gordon, Thomas, and Jordan. That's a nice second five. We are set, we now only need to sign some role players like FAZ, Williams and Powell. Hek, even those guys are good. |
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Miquel
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: I Can't See How We're Better; Please Convinc
Posted: Jul 24, 2008 - 11:27 AM PST
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Clipper Starter
Joined: Jan 28, 2002
Posts: 705
Location: Barcelona
votes: 10
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JamFan wrote:
I was going to have a take, but ClipperJoe said it all. There is no doubt this is a better team, a more balanced team, and a deeper team. More balanced because we now have outside shooting to go along with the deep game. We sorely missed this for years. It opens things up. And when we go to our bench this year, we bring in Hart, KAZ, Gordon, Thomas, and Jordan. That's a nice second five. We are set, we now only need to sign some role players like FAZ, Williams and Powell. Hek, even those guys are good.
I agree but I would love to sign Landry instead of any of the Faz,Williams,Powell group. As I already posted in another post Landry would be the cherry for our cake (I don't know if you use this expression in the USA...but you understand me)
On the other hand, I think we are better because we have one of the three-four best PGs in the league...B-Diddy will give us heart, personality and WINNER MENTALITY on the court just the same way Cassell gave us few seasons ago...We have lost brand but he never had this kind of mentality.
Furthermore the best still has to come in 2010 when Clipperdemia will attack the whole world... |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: I Can't See How We're Better; Please Convinc
Posted: Jul 24, 2008 - 11:36 AM PST
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Clipper Starter
Joined: Apr 09, 2008
Posts: 583
Location: L.A
votes: 6
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Miquel wrote:
JamFan wrote:
I was going to have a take, but ClipperJoe said it all. There is no doubt this is a better team, a more balanced team, and a deeper team. More balanced because we now have outside shooting to go along with the deep game. We sorely missed this for years. It opens things up. And when we go to our bench this year, we bring in Hart, KAZ, Gordon, Thomas, and Jordan. That's a nice second five. We are set, we now only need to sign some role players like FAZ, Williams and Powell. Hek, even those guys are good.
I agree but I would love to sign Landry instead of any of the Faz,Williams,Powell group. As I already posted in another post Landry would be the cherry for our cake (I don't know if you use this expression in the USA...but you understand me)
On the other hand, I think we are better because we have one of the three-four best PGs in the league...B-Diddy will give us heart, personality and WINNER MENTALITY on the court just the same way Cassell gave us few seasons ago...We have lost brand but he never had this kind of mentality.
Furthermore the best still has to come in 2010 when Clipperdemia will attack the whole world...
We say icing on the cake. But I do agree about Landry. I hope he considers the clips before he goes over seas. Im sure there is money somewhere for him. |
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Let the Baron Davis Era begin already.
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: I Can't See How We're Better; Please Convinc
Posted: Jul 24, 2008 - 11:57 AM PST
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Clipper Starter
Joined: Jun 04, 2008
Posts: 456
Location: Los Angeles
votes: 8
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clipshow wrote:
Miquel wrote:
JamFan wrote:
I was going to have a take, but ClipperJoe said it all. There is no doubt this is a better team, a more balanced team, and a deeper team. More balanced because we now have outside shooting to go along with the deep game. We sorely missed this for years. It opens things up. And when we go to our bench this year, we bring in Hart, KAZ, Gordon, Thomas, and Jordan. That's a nice second five. We are set, we now only need to sign some role players like FAZ, Williams and Powell. Hek, even those guys are good.
I agree but I would love to sign Landry instead of any of the Faz,Williams,Powell group. As I already posted in another post Landry would be the cherry for our cake (I don't know if you use this expression in the USA...but you understand me)
On the other hand, I think we are better because we have one of the three-four best PGs in the league...B-Diddy will give us heart, personality and WINNER MENTALITY on the court just the same way Cassell gave us few seasons ago...We have lost brand but he never had this kind of mentality.
Furthermore the best still has to come in 2010 when Clipperdemia will attack the whole world...
We say icing on the cake. But I do agree about Landry. I hope he considers the clips before he goes over seas. Im sure there is money somewhere for him.
There is also the expression cherry on top. However, if we land Azubuike, we'd only be able to offer Landry the minimum. If GS matches Azubuike, then we can offer Landry up to $3M, but then we'd stlil need to find a guard who can score off the bench (and for the minimum). |
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Knock on wood!
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KamanOwnsYou
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: I Can't See How We're Better; Please Con
Posted: Jul 24, 2008 - 12:02 PM PST
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