Official Los Angeles Clippers Trade Ideas Thread (P. 98)

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pageC4
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man reggies was awesome. who can forget his run in with Ibaka.

Agent0
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Reggie was a good defensive matchup for Randolph because Randolph isn't super quick and doesn't possess great length. Against a quiker or bigger and taller guy, Reggie's man to man defense isn't as sharp and he can be foul prone. He's also doesn't disturb shots at the rim effectively, so for example with Blake and Reggie on, you have both bad spacing and no rim protection.

So he's situationally good, but not universally good defensively. He'll work against a Randolph, but not against a Duncan, etc.

The difference in production against Memphis was also related to Rudy Gay. Rudy Gay meant that when Memphis was struggling, they went to Rudy iso, which was a bonus for the Clippers as he doesn't actually score effectively in those sets. This year, they went inside, which was a bad thing for the Clippers.

Andrew818
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I would trade Wayns,Willie,Hollins and a future 2nd rounder to the Nuggets for Darrell Arthur.They can release Wayns from his non guaranteed deal and could use Willie and Hollins in the locker room because their team is young.They have Faried,Mcgee,Hickson,Mozgov,and Randolph so they might be willing to let Arthur go.They probably would want something back besides just Willie and Hollins which is why I think we might have to throw in a 2nd rounder.

Flushyriver
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I agree with this. I thought that Reggie was a great hype man and energy guy who can be tough in the paint, but he can be beat inside too. I think it just felt like in the series he was the only one of our frontcourt who could protect the rim because of how strong and aggressive he is at a high motor, but during the regular season he wasn't always consistent and fouled often. "He's situationally good, but not universally good defensively" is a perfect statement to describe it.

I think he would still be a great weapon though. Anyone who paid attention to rebounding or played fantasy basketball last season knows that the dude is in a whole 'nother tier when it comes to rebounding. And that kind of rebounding punch off the bench could be very beneficial to the team.

Voyeur
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Reggie was pretty darn situationally good for the Nets last year too. With him on the court, the team was +4.8 against their opponents. Off the court they were -0.7. Besides, situational is just fine with me. We will be facing guys like Z Bo and Cousins quite a bit and having Evans around would be advantageous. The rest of our bigs can deal with the other situations.

Flushyriver
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Lol I think we can all agree that he was more than just "situationally" good for the Nets last season. He played far above expectations in my opinion. I think his impact on this team would be great coming off the bench and playing defensive schemes against teams with better interior players. Definitely would be worth the $1.7 mill salary which we do technically have the TPE for. IF they did want to do some damage control maybe a three way trade?

Clippers Give: Willie Green, Maalik Wayns, 2 2nd round picks, TPE

Get: Reggie Evans, Kyle Singler

Pistons: Give: Protected 1st round pick, Tony Mitchell, Kyle Singler

Get: Jason Terry, Maalik Wayns, 2nd round pick

Nets: Give: Reggie Evans, Jason Terry

Get: TPE, Willie Green, Tony Mitchell, Protected 1st round pick, 2nd round pick

Even just typing it out I can see it wouldn't work financially (for Detroit in my case) and I'm pretty sure the Nets aren't actually trying to shed salary at all...still can dream xD

Agent0
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He was actually better with the Nets this year than as a Clipper. He fouled less. He also did have a bit of a push when an unnamed Nets teammate asked for him to be benched, and he took it to heart and played really well after that.

Of course he was also always on with the starters, so that helps his +/-. His effect on floor spacing did hurt them at times, but since Lopez (4.9 FGA/G outside 10 feet, excluding 3's, 40% FG) can shoot with range it wasn't sooo bad.

With the Clippers, since no big could shoot well with range, it was a bit more of a problem. Also with the Clippers he was used more as a C as opposed to PF because Blake is in at PF for most of the game, so his height and man to man defense issues are more apparent at C. At PF, it's a bit less of an issue, but he still get's shot over too easily and therefore isn't that effective as a post defender against the league (not a specifica individual) cause he's not the immovable Chuck Hayes. I know how that feels though, there's only so much effort can do.

His skillset was definitely a better fit and compliment to Lopez than to Blake or DJ.

Flushyriver
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Brook Lopez made 40% outside of 10 feet? Wow that's better than I knew he was capable of, though it was clear he was taking more mid length jumpers this last season. Nice stat.

Yeah but now we have a wildcard C/PF in Mullens who can shoot. IF it were possible I wouldn't mind the additional depth to experiment with lineups and provide some relief.

Voyeur
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Some good points and in the regular season he didn't had quite as much in terms of +/- seemingly for the Clippers. However, in the post season...when everything slows down, gets more physical and every rebound counts...Reggie was a remarkable +18.9 for us. That was against ZBo and Gasol primarily. And it somehow worked pretty well while both he and Blake were on the court together.

Flushyriver
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Noticed today that the Warriors bench guards are comprised of 2 rookies (Nedovic and Bazemore) and the PG Toney Douglas. They might be willing to trade for a more veteran guard like Willie Green. With more than enough depth at the front now, is it possible they're willing to trade a player like Festus Ezeli or Draymod Green? And if so, would it be worth the trade?

clipper*joe
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Not wise to help them out.

CP3Heliflopter
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No way. Green is way better than either of those players. Not a good trade and it would help the Warriors. I would only do it if the trade helped us more than it helped them and it doesn't do that at all.

da11da
Clipper 6th Man
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Everyone needs to calm down Reggie Evans is not a good player, he has never been a good player and he never will be.

Clipswhit
Clipper All-Star
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^ Reggie is an elite rebounder and a decent defender. He doesn't demand any touches, but when he gets them he converts at an okay clip. Reggie is exactly what our bench needs.

da11da
Clipper 6th Man
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The reason he doesn't demand touches is because he doesn't know what to do with the ball. He averaged 4.8 rebounds a game for us and has a career average of 7 boards a game. I think all this Reggie love is ridiculous we did well when he was on our team and he became a fan favorite. That doesn't mean that Reggie himself is a good player. If he was an elite rebounder why is he still being bounced from team to team after joining the league in 02. David Lee is an elite rebounder and you don't see him switching teams every year or two.

Silasie
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Reggie is a very limited player, but in certain situations and more importantly certain series he can be a game changer. The Memphis series being a case in point, he is a great energy guy/banger and is a rebounding machine. He is exactly what you need when dealing a frontcourt like ZBo and Gasol. Someone who is great to have on the bench.

Clipswhit
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I'm sorry Reggie's 12.7 rebounds/36 wasn't enough for us last season, nor were his 16.3 rebounds/36 this season with the nets. How does he compare to David Lee over the last two seasons? 9.3 and 11 rebounds per 36 minutes??? Sounds like David Lee is a MUCH better rebounder huh?

David Lee hasn't bounced around the league because he is a more well rounded player. No kidding, we all know that. Reggie fills a need for us. He's a rebounder, and he'd be our best back up big man defender on the cheap. We already have the offense in Crawford and Collison, and to some extent Barnes and Mullens. Who outside of Barnes is considered a good rebounder on our second unit?

da11da
Clipper 6th Man
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Fact is reggie did not average 12.7 boards for us.

Clipswhit
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^ Show me a single player who averaged 12.7 rebounds in limited minutes. Fact is Reggie has been an elite rebounder when you look at his per minute production throughout his entire career. Fun fact: Blake Griffin has never come close to the 12.7 rebounds per 36 mark.

da11da
Clipper 6th Man
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This stat you are using "per 36 minutes" is absolutely useless in my opinion. You are assuming the players production will stay exactly the same if he played 36 minutes. Just because someone averaged 4.8 rebounds in 13 minutes does not mean he would average 12.7 rebounds if he played 36 minutes.

Voyeur
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Nobody is seriously doubting Reggie's rebounding prowess, are they?

Agent0
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Actually unless a player has some serious stamina problem, his rebounding should remain the same. Where he's incorrect is that Blake has never come close. Rookie Blake averaged 11.4 rebs/36. Reggie averaged 12.7/36 as a Clipper. You can't ignore minutes in evaluating ability, we just have to use our brain and know what kind of player we are talking about.

Reggie's rebound rate playing more minutes with both Toronto and Broklyn was higher than that playing less minutes with LAC. Now, that is actually due to LAC having good rebounders and playing with Bargnani and Lopez on those teams who are weak defensive rebounders.

Really we can just look at percentage of rebounds grabbed. Reggie was at 20.9% as a Clipper, Blake's high as a rookie was 18.6%

da11da
Clipper 6th Man
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I'm not saying he is a bad rebounder i am saying he isn't elite and nowhere near as good as some people on in this forum think he is. It was fun chanting Reggie! Reggie! and he was key against the Grizz also.

Agent0
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He's definitely elite on the glass.

What's the logical fallacy you just used? Smile

Him bouncing around is because he can't shoot, can't score, isn't a great defender. Teams won't just play a guy who is ONLY an elite rebounder. But you are right, the idea that Reggie will solve a lot has gotten a bit much.

He has his faults, and it can be exposed against the right coaching and defense which makes him a lot less useful than you would want.

da11da
Clipper 6th Man
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I didn't know we were comparing Blake and Reggie, are we just comparing rebounding or overall?? I'm not sure how bringing Blake into the conversation proves that Reggie is an elite rebounder. I still don't agree that a players production would stay exactly the same if he were to play more minutes.

da11da
Clipper 6th Man
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Maybe you should scroll up and read the comments about how good Reggie is at defense and how he knows how to finish inside. My comment was in response to those.

CapsNClips
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Wait, why are we talking about Reggie?

Are their rumors or something?

Agent0
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Clipswhit mentioned Blake. Reggie led the league in total rebound% this past season, and total rebound percentage the past two post-seasons. He also led in 04-05 in bothy the playoffs and regular season.

His career is 21.9% total rebound percentage in the regular season, and 23% in the post season.

Here's how that compares to this past seasons leaders in total rebound %:

Reggie Evans: 26.7%

Omer Asik: 22.0%

J.J. Hickson: 20.7%

Nikola Vucevic: 20.2%

Zach Randolph: 19.3%

His career average is the same as the league's second highest person in total rebound%. Elite is generally the 95th percentile or so, right? Reggie registers in that range on a yearly basis, so I'm not sure how else to classify his rebounding ability.

Dwight Howard for example has a career average of 20.8% and a high of 22.0%

Agent0
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Yes,and my response is to you saying "if he was an elite rebounder, why has he bounced around". You are right in that his other skills are either average at best or maybe even miserable, but the reason he even has a job and has been able to start on teams despite being a flawed player is that he IS and elite rebounder.

That's what he has going for him, don't try to take that away.

Convert at a decent clip and decent defender though, that's not really all that crazy to get wild about. He's a fairly poor finisher though, so I wouldn't call it a decent clip

....an remember, if you look even further up, I was the one saying Reggie is situationally useful and depends on fit. But I won't deny he has one great NBA skill.

da11da
Clipper 6th Man
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LOL ok bro ill try not to take that away from him. I would rather look at averages and not percentages, he was 6th last year and 78th the year before. I believe if he was such an elite rebounder a top contending team like the Clippers, Thunder, Spurs, Heat, Lakers in past years, would have grabbed him and paid him his peanuts for a few years.

Voyeur
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Not an elite rebounder????

You HAVE seen him play, right? I mean if the numbers don't convince you, any eye test will tell you for sure. That guy is a rebounding machine. Years ago, I was a big Knick fan in the days of Ewing, Oakley and Anthony Mason. All great rebounders...

...Reggie Evans is a better rebounder than ALL those guys were.

Yeah, Reggie is elite when it comes to the boards.

pageC4
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this is a great point. I typically don't like the PER 36 stat because rates don't stay the same. for example as a game goes on there is fatigue, foul trouble, or other factors that affect the final number of stats you log. I look at Chris Kamans per 36 numbers and they make him look amazing, but we all know Chris Kaman doesn't exactly average those projected 36 numbers. for Chris injury was always a big derailment. there is a use for stats but they aren't the end all be all

da11da
Clipper 6th Man
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Really a better rebounder than Patrick Ewing? Clearly you weren't a Knicks fan, Ewing played 17 season and has a career average of 9.8 boards a game his worst year was 02 when he only averaged 4 boards a game and only played 4 games. Better rebounder than Ewing get outta here man.

CP3Heliflopter
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He averaged 11 rebounds in under 25 minutes last season.... He averaged 11.5 rebounds in 26.5 minutes in another season.... He has led the league multiple times in TRB%. I Know you don't like % apparently or per 36 stats which is somewhat reasonable but getting 11 rebounds in even 30 minutes is already elite and he has done it in less time....

Teams don't want him because he is putrid offensively and so-so defensively. He is the definition of a specialist. He is a rebounding specialist. There are other specialists like Steve Novak who bounced around the league. If you are only good at one thing you aren't going to be highly desired a lot of the time.

CP3Heliflopter
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He actually is a better rebounder than Ewing but that doesn't mean much. The reason he is a better rebounder is because he is always looking to grab boards. Ewing had to contest shots a lot of shots which makes it harder grab boards. Ewing wasn't a super elite rebounder for a C. A very very good one but not at the level of a Hakeem or even a D Rob.

Voyeur
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LOL! I was a huge Knick fan BECAUSE of Patrick Ewing. Ewing was a great rebounder and certainly outclasses Evans in every other category...yet pound for pound Reggie is better in that department. Because that's his forte. He goes after boards like his life depends on it.

da11da
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I do think he is a specialist but if we are going to talk about his past seasons the two you mentioned are the only times he has averaged 10 or more. Anyway I do agree he can be useful for a title contending team but just not as useful as some people think.

CP3Heliflopter
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Its hard to average 10 or more when you only get 20ish minutes or even less. DJ has only averaged 8.3 rebounds in his best rebounding year.

I agree per 36 numbers are not perfect but even if his rebounding numbers go down over time due to fatigue he would still have ridiculous rebounding numbers.

da11da
Clipper 6th Man
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DJ is a mess.

da11da
Clipper 6th Man
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Too bad we don't have centers like that anymore. Love uses that same strategy, he will give up on the play and crash the boards.

da11da
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And a few years from now you will be on another forum telling people you used to be a huge clippers fan.

Voyeur
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Hmmm...I'm trying to figure out why some douche bag with only 144 posts wants to challenge my loyalty to the Clippers.

It's a puzzler.

Agent0
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Kaman actually looks like a chucker, not amazing. You have to look at the bad and the good, Kaman is taking a ton of shots with a weak conversation rate, and turning the ball over a lot. It's more than just the good per minute production.

Per 36 minutes numbers have been studied, they hold true for the average player. The exceptions of extremely foul prone players or a guy like Sweetney who could die after 20 minutes are not the rule. You also have to do it on a player by player basis and look at ALL the numbers, but the purpose is to show rate of production while ON the court, not to necessarily say "this is what you would average playing 36 MPG".

When on the court, Reggie Evans rebounds like an elite rebounder. When on the court, whatever player does what their doing at that rate.

Da11da, averages can be misleading though. Averages tell me that a guy playing 42 minutes and scoring 20 PPG is a "better" scorer than a guy playing 34 minutes and scoring 18 PPG, but watching games and per minute production tells me that he's not at all. When on the court, 18 PPG guy scores better, thats the better scorer to me.

When a player produces a certain way consistently over a lot of total minutes, that's generally how they will produce in the same situation/role whether the minutes go up or down.

da11da
Clipper 6th Man
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So you believe the amount someone posts on a forum is a clear indicator of how loyal they are to a team? I'm sorry but that's just stupid.

I judged your loyalty because you said you used to be a HUGE Knicks fan when Ewing was around. That leads me to believe you might one day move away from the Clippers also.

Voyeur
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I think when you only have 144 posts you should be more respectful to some of us vets. I believe when you make an argument, you stick to the topic and not resort to something unrelated because you've apparently lost the argument.

da11da
Clipper 6th Man
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Some of us vets he says, you might be a vet to the forum but that means absolutely nothing to me if you want to talk about respect maybe you should go read your last post. You resort to name calling like a child and you talk to me about respect? I don't know you and so far between your " I used to be a HUGE Knicks fan" and your childish name calling i have zero respect for you.

I have no problem with Knicks fans i have a problem with bandwagon fans.

Voyeur
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First you tell me to "get out of here" because I was making a fair argument. Then you challenge my loyalty. That most definitely led me to the conclusion you are a douche bag. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think so. Most everyone here seems to "respect" me because I make fair arguments without having to challenge their loyalty. Without caring about who they have rooted for in the past. I could go on and on about why I rooted for Ewing (from Georgetown on) by why defend myself to someone like you?

CP3Heliflopter
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You are the one who attacked him first. There is nothing wrong with supporting a team since you like a player and its not like you can't support more than one team but I guess some people take these things way too seriously. You aren't bound to the team you support by blood you know.

My guess is he supported the Clippers and supported the Knicks due to being a fan of Ewing. Nothing wrong with that. I support the Knicks only because I am a New Yorker(unfortunately they suck) and the Clippers due to CP3(if I lived in LA it might be a different story). Call me a bandwagon or w/e but really its not something that needs to be taken so seriously.

da11da
Clipper 6th Man
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You admit to being a Knicks fan because of one player then you moved away from them. So why is it not logical to think you are a Clippers fan because of Blake Griffin and that you will eventually move to a different team?

By the way you ask why should you defend yourself to someone like me, i hope you understand that by posting that comment that is exactly what you are doing.

Clipswhit
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Perfectly understandable, but his rebounding numbers went up playing nearly double the minutes for Brooklyn this past season. It's more than reasonable to assume he'd be a solid-to-elite rebounder regardless of the minutes he plays for us if we get him. Plus, with Blake and DJ, he'd be our 3rd big at best. He wouldn't be playing 36 minutes either way, so I don't care if he grabs 12.7 rebounds per game, I care about how efficient he is in the time he gets on the floor.

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