Official Los Angeles Clippers Trade Ideas Thread (P. 132)

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CapsNClips
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If you re-read your post and analyze what your saying, I think you'll get a pretty big laugh.

Also it's really funny if you read it in a Paris Hilton voice.

laboy
Clipper 6th Man
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dude...

crawford is the man..

he was great during the year...

leave him alone...

3rd scorer on the team,

the team that was number one in scoring..

so lay off of him..

doc takes care of the contracts..

thats his job..

we need a couple of rebounders for the team..

maybe aminu???

and a big

ClippersDA
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If he is so great how come we are having such a hard time trading him?

CapsNClips
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I doubt we are having a hard time trading him at all. I bet we are having a hard time trading him WITH Dudley or Barnes.

ClippersDA
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What does the say about the quality of our small forwards? What a mess. Thanks Doc! You can bet he regrets both of these signings (trade in Dudley's case but you get the gist)

Jerediscool
Clipper All-Star
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barnes is fines as a backup SF, which is what he was signed to do. I dunno who sh!t in your cereal DA but you're a real negative nancy.

ClippersDA
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That is my point. Barnes is a pretty nice backup. He is not a starter. Small forward is the most versatile position and we need a starting caliber player in that spot. I'm not even complaining about redick - he's probably more of a bench player but he's a good starter too. Barnes is a bench player. I hated spending more than the minimum on barnes last summer and i didn't like the Dudley trade either. That is probably why I'm frustrated from my armchair. I didn't like these signings last summer and now we can't move them.

Jerediscool
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you can't spend the minimum on every bench player. good ones cost money. And SF is the 2nd most shallow position in the league if you're looking for quality players. Not every team can have a solid guy at every position. we have 4 of our starting positions locked up with good players. one is weak. every team has a weak spot. every team has a bad contract or two. ours aren't that bad.

ClippersDA
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You are glossing over the fact that we have no perimeter defense. Barnes doesn't count. That is a major major problem that can't be crushed aside by saying everyone has a "weak" position. I'm sure there is another player a bit more skilled or a better defender than barnes or Dudley that could have signed for a similar contract. More athletic at the very least. We need to get younger and more athletic on the wing. It's all about fit.

Jerediscool
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its all about patients and you have none

ClippersDA
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I'm not a doctor so it's a good thing I don't have patients!

In all seriousness, I don't have patience when we have a window of opportunity and can't seem to ever fix our greatest weakness. I can only hope doc was convinced he could upgrade via trade and felt the backup big and point were going to be most cost effective options for the exceptions.

CapsNClips
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You underestimate how important JJ's role is for our defense. Obviously he can't lock a dude up 1-on-1, but nobody in the league can chase an off the ball player around picks better than JJ. He's a huge part of why were such a great 3pt denying team. He also has many intangibles like taking a charge and swiping the ball out of the offensive players hands as he goes up for a shot or attacking the rim.

Obviously we love to see when the Paul George's of the world shut down an Iso play all by himself because it's fun to watch, but we discredit the pesky defenders like JJ that irritate offenses.

It would be ideal to pair him with an athletic defending SF, but it's looking like that dream is fading away. No matter what we are probably going to be a top 5 defense even if Barnes and Dudley are our main SF's.

ClippersDA
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If barnes is our starter next season we are looking at a guaranteed premature exit. That position is an Achilles heel. Can't do anything but spin wheels until that is shored up. That should have been the number one aim this summer and yet again we kicked the can. Enough is enough. I agree with everything else you have said. I would even take aminu back at this point.

tense2
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While don't you just wait until the season starts to see what the roster ends up being BEFORE you stating accusing Doc "of kicking the can". I know it'll be tough for you, but just try.

By the way, getting Aminu would be a good thing if you want defense and rebounding...a real good thing.

CapsNClips
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How are we guaranteed to lose in the playoffs? We beat a team composed of Klay Thompson, Andre Iguodala and Harrison Barnes at the wings.

We would've beat the Thunder with the 2nd best wing player in the NBA if the refs didn't f*ck us and that was with Barnes and Dudley.

Barnes didn't even play bad in the playoffs either. I like our chances right now with our current roster going up against any team.

Agent0
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Well let's not get carried away, we would have been up 3-2 vs the Thunder, but they could still have won that series even if that happened.

I think Aminu would be a good addition. He's a guy that if I wanted to add I would have liked to add early so that he could work on his shooting all summer in spots that you want him to shoot from. Similar to how the team worked with Blake on facing up all last summer. Aminu is still a guy you can develop to fit a specific role on your team. Get him used to the spots you want him playing from, get him comfortable and proficient at those spots. He needs to be hitting 75% in practice from the spots he's expected to be proficient from, and then cuts and transition will make up the rest of his offense.

After that he just defends and rebounds for you. Of course the problem is that you can't get him for the minimum, soo....

An aside, but I think specific focused development over the summer would have been more beneficial to Aminu than playing on the Nigerian team that one year.

ClippersDA
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Here's a trade idea: jared Dudley to the pelicans for aminu and rivers. Rivers sucks but I think playing for his dad might help him. Aminu doesn't do much for them. Give aminu a shot again.

At this rate, I don't see how we can trade for any other small forward? Are there any smalls that will be free agents next summer that might be able to just be traded? Not sign and trades but straight up traded

da11da
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I love it. Someone call Doc.

Agent0
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We're getting two players for Dudley right now? Seems a bit excessive doesn't it? I'll take it, but I doubt the possibility of that.

ESPN suggested Aminu would be about 2 years / $4M with an option for year #2. Anyways,the guy is 23 years old, turns 24 in September, he's still a player you can develop. He's improved his finishing near the basket and ability to get shots near the basket as well as his rebounding to big man levels, but his shot is still broken. A team needs to say "hey, we're going to invest in and develop this guy" because to me if you just develop a 3PT shot on him over a year or two, there are few other players in the league that have his size, length and athletic ability.

tense2
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We're getting two players for Dudley right now? Seems a bit excessive doesn't it? I'll take it, but I doubt the possibility of that. ESPN suggested Aminu would be about 2 years / $4M with an option for year #2. Anyways,the guy is 23 years old, turns 24 in September, he's still a player you can develop. He's improved his finishing near the basket and ability to get shots near the basket as well as his rebounding to big man levels, but his shot is still broken. A team needs to say "hey, we're going to invest in and develop this....

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CapsNClips
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I've been saying it for a while now. We gotta get Aminu. The Chief needs to arive.

He's almost perfect for our team if you consider our legitimate options.

If we can get him in a S&T with the Pelicans for around $2-3mil it will be a better value than Trevor Ariza at $10-12mil.

Fallback option: Wesley Johnson

ClippersDA
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Just read the pelicans renounced him not sure a sign and trade would work right?

tense2
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Rebounded him, lol. What's that? Did they score with that"rebound". Very Happy

realbull17
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is this thought up idea or Clippers really pursuing this?

ClippersDA
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I thought it up haha

ClippersDA
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Autocorrect sucks - meant to write renounced

tense2
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I know what you meant. I was just f#king around with ya.Smile

Do agree, autocorrect needs to be corrected, lol.

Agent0
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Yea, can't sign and trade anymore if they renounced him, so all we can give him now is the minimum.

LABraves4Life
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I'm sure Doc tried his hardest to land Deng and Ariza in a S&T. You can't help it if teams don't want the pieces you're offering. Yes, I would like our starting lineup better if we landed one of them. However, I still see this off-season as a huge success.

Hawes is the 3rd big we badly missed last season, with a killer 3 point shot (42% on the year, 45% after being traded to Cleveland!) He's instantly the best 3 point shooter on the Clippers, and that's a team that has JJ Redick. Redick in his best shooting year, only tied what Hawes did last season.

Farmar is a better 3 point shooter than Collison which should yield better spacing. (Farmar 44%, Collison 39% - But Collison was 1 for 12 in the playoffs from deep = 8%)

I expect the trade values of Barnes, Dudley, Wilcox and Bullock to all increase once the season starts. Dudley is a prime candidate for a bounce-back year. Don't forget Doc wanted to give him rest early last season so his tendinitis could heal, but Barnes was hurt so Dudley further damaged his legs with extensive playing time. Lets see how an off-season of rest and low minutes to start the season affects Dudley's shot. If he can get back to his 40% 3 point career average his trade value will flourish making it easier to acquire a stud SF via trade.

Also worth noting the Clippers are hard-capped after using the full mid-level exemption, so it's likely necessary Dudley's $4.25M contract is included in any SF trades.

clipper*joe
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Clippers_FTW
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M'Baye is looking pretty good out there... Thoughts?

loyalclipfan
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I DEFINATELY would sign him up to training camp, as long as he keeps playing like this, (doc & Ballmer were at his last game).

Agent0
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I'm sure Doc tried his hardest to land Deng and Ariza in a S&T. You can't help it if teams don't want the pieces you're offering. Yes, I would like our starting lineup better if we landed one of them. However, I still see this off-season as a huge success. Hawes is the 3rd big we badly missed last season, with a killer 3 point shot (42% on the year, 45% after being traded to Cleveland!) He's instantly the best 3 point shooter on the Clippers, and that's a team that has JJ Redick. Redick in his best shooting year, only....

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JoeClipplet
Clipper 6th Man
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M'Baye 27pts in SL Game 2

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vE4fbmMJ36c

I've been watching him since Game 1... He seems like he has some good raw skill, good athleticism, size and finesse... He could DEFINITELY grow under Doc Rivers.

I hope we give him an invite.

Aminu, Dudley, M'Baye .... that would show some promise for the future. Youthful, skilled, and still room to grow!

TheDude
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Don't think it's a good idea for us to get Austin Rivers. That's a seriously tough situation for Doc to deal with.

david
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Not sure why there is so much talk about trading Jamal Crawford. His contract is a bargain, and you'd be losing the #2 scorer on the team. Unless you can get an All Star player back for Crawford + Dudley, it would not be a wise move.

Agent0
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Trading Jamal was an option when there were higher level SF's available. Now there's no point trading him unless there's some player we can actually trade him for that's worth it. I'd trade him in a package for Thaddeus Young for example, but with all the FA sign and trade options gone, meh.

ClipperKyle32
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Could A Wilson Chandler be pulled off if Mike Miller signs with Denver?

They would have

Chandler

Galonari

And Miller

Then they have Afflalo and Harris at SG

I wonder If they would trade Chandler to us , but for whom?

JQuick32
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  • He wants a big extension despite being an aging one-trick pony

  • He disappears in the playoffs

  • He's our best trade asset

I really don't see us being that worse off without him. Any team where Jamal Crawford's a top two scorer is not a championship team anyway.

david
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Well, like I said, unless you can get a better player than him back in a trade, it wouldn't make sense. And there would be a gaping hole in terms of bench scoring. Who's going to fill that scorer role especially with Collison gone? Not to mention Crawford was one of the top scorers in the 4th quarter of games in the NBA. So what if he wants an extension- he's still under contract for 2 more seasons.

Agent0
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The scoring we can fill as another backup wouldn't play 30 MPG, and we'd have to assume Redick won't be as injured. If Crawford was strictly backing up SG behind Redick, which would mean playing about 20 MPG, then we're talking about 12.7 PPG in bench minutes, which is great for that role, but we're not actually needing to replace 18.6 PPG.

Hawes has a career average of 14.0 pts/36 and 15.0 pts/36 the last two seasons. He will be playing backup PF for about 12 minutes and backup C for another 15 minutes or so. His actual average will probably be like 11 PPG (5 PPG at PF and 6 PPG at C). Glen Davis gave us 11.2 pts/36, Hollins 10.5 pts/36, Hedo 10.6 pts/36, Jamison 12.2 pts/36. Those guys were giving us about 3.7 PPG at PF and 4.6 PPG at C off the bench, so we are up about 2.7 PPG at PF/C with Hawes taking those minutes. So our scoring rate at PF/C does go up.

Also Redick missed 57% of the season, and that was 19.4 pts/36. I think playing the whole season, his scoring rate could go down to 17-18 pts/36, but maybe he can sustain it, either way, that's added scoring. Teams aren't static, we have the talent to fill the scoring because if Crawford's "replacement" averages 13 pts/36, so like 7 pts in 20 minutes, that's about 6 pts in 20 minutes you have to replace along with a little playmaking. We already said Hawes gives us about 3 pts extra in comparison to our previous backups, and even more scoring if he takes minutes from DJ. 8 of those minutes, CP and Blake will be on the court, so they will just take on the playmaing and take an extra 0.5 FGA/G. In the 8 minutes they aren't on, the playmaking will be spread between Hawes and Farmar.

The scoring won't be an issue, we've seen it before, teams lose a strict scorer, but if you have good enough and efficient enough players, it doesn't affect an offense, it is just re-distributed. If every scoring starter is tasked to take 0.5 more FGA/G, so a little higher usage and the bench needs a couple of guys to take on a little higher usage, it isn't a big deal. I think too many of us are thinking we would need to replace his offense with another high usage producer, but that isn't true. Then in terms of the overall team improvement, we should be trading him for a superior impact defender to make us net positive in the end.

The problem is that I don't see who is realistic to trade Crawford for now that helps the team. We're not trying to trade him just for the sake of trading him. Maybe we'll explore something at the trade deadline when teams might not be doing as well as they thought, or some people are trying to make a change, but we can't just trade him just to trade him, but I think we have good enough stars and complimentary scorers that our offense won't really have issues. I'm not even sure the teams propensity to trust Crawford's isolation abilities is a good habit especially when playoff time rolls around.

inventor310
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Seen on Espn that Dion Waiters is currently not willing to accept a back up role with the Cavs. If they needed a back up SG on that team I would gladly trade to them the 6th man of the year "Jamal Crawford" for Waiters in a heart beat.

Chris Paul Jordan Farmar Delonte West

Dion Waiters JJ Reddick CJ Wilcox

Matt Barnes Jared Dudley Reggie Bullock

Blake Griffin Glen Davis Ed Davis

DeAndre Jordan Spencer Hawes Glen Davis

I love this group right here

inventor310
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^^^ this is assuming we sign Ed Davis and Glen Davis which would be both solid signing for the vet min.

Agent0
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I don't think Doc starts him over Redick, so he would be in the same situation here...

It would make sense for Cleveland to try and move him for a big though, their big situation is quite shallow

inventor310
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Redick over Waiters? Idk I've watched Dion play he's a crazy baller. Him and Paul on the front court would be better then Klay and Curry IMO. Plus having Farmar Redick Hawes Dudley off the bench would be able to open up the paint and create some serious 3 point shooting.

CapsNClips
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Redick is a better starter than Dion on this team. Waiters should embrace the bench role because he's perfectly suited for the 6th man role.

Redick means too much for our perfect flowing offense to put him on the bench.

clipperboy24
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We won 24 out of 35 games with reddick, sounds amazing right? A nearly 69% winning %! But when you look at the other games we 33 of 47 games without reddick, a 69.5% winning % so actually we played better (winning wise) without him. So... Reddick may not have been the key to us winning which may have to do with how he affects our defense and not just the offensive side.

Agent0
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That's not a statistically significant difference as both over 82 games would still result in 57 wins, so the difference is too small to call it better don't you think? Better pure numbers wise because 69.5 > 69, but not better in any actual meaningful way that is. Also we'd have to take into account how many games with Redick were without Paul vs with Paul if we are going to make that comparison cause I believe they were missing games in a staggered fashion, and of course Paul is much more important than a Redick.

I think in the end Doc would end up bringing a guy like Waiters off the bench inventor. It isn't always about which player can beat the other guy one on one or looks better, sometimes it is about fit. It is about how your specific skills fit into the team system, about if you are willing to buy into what the team is doing, etc. Redick fits into the offensive system, we know that for sure of course. Waiters could be groomed to fit into it, but of course we don't know. Waiters has more potential though, duh, but as a young guy who is still developing, not willing to be patient isn't going to do him any good.

23efren23
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If we do not get a starting forward Reggie's bullock will start mark my words his shot and defense has improved and he got bulkier!

clipper*joe
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Bulkier? the guy is already flatfooted.

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