Are the Clippers exploring Chris Kaman for Josh Smith?

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JamFan
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It's no secret Josh Smith wants out of Atlanta. It's no secret that the Clippers are interested in Josh but an offer sheet would have been matched by Atlanta. So now Josh is asking for a sign and trade and the Clippers are still rumored as an interested party. But the only deal the Clippers could make that Atlanta would want it Chris Kaman for Josh Smith. Atlanta needs a center. We could sign and trade someone like Marcus Williams to include in the deal to give them a forward to help fill the gap left by Smith. Most importantly, Kaman's contract, 43Mil over 4 years averages close to 11 Mil per year which is close to the number that Josh is looking for. Okafor just signed a long term deal worth 12 Mil per year, and Josh isn't going to sign for less than Okafor. Atlanta is not going to take on TT and Cat's contracts in exchange for Smith so the Kaman trade is the only viable trade availalbe. Camby could move to center and the Clippers are thinking that DeAndre Jordan will be ready to take over the center position in a couple of years. Josh Smith would be penciled into the PF spot. Will Chris Kamans' injury history make this deal more plausible? Will the Clippers pull the trigger on such a deal?

spontane
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ummm...no. Josh smith is undersized to play the pf, especially in the west. He is more of a sf and we already have thornton. Besides him playing out of position, why would we want to give up our top 5 center in the league for a not even top 10 PF/SF in the league. The numbers would add up but we would be stuck with smith. Why would we want smith over kaman??? Doesn't really add up at all. I think the way kaman played last year he showed he was underpaid. Kaman is everything you would want in a center, except his midrange shot could be better(even though it's better than duncan's). With kaman/camby we would be controlling the boards baring no injuries to either one of them. Even if we give up thomas, would we start smith over camby?? I don't think smith would work out as good as camby can. I was high on the idea after felton left but camby is a MUCH better fit financially and physically. Besides, we are in a real good position to snatch up 2 stars in the 2010 bonanza(atleast 1.5 stars). I smell a championship contending team in the works and all the pieces are in place. Smith doesn't fit into the equation.

clipperfan714
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Jam Fan, where are you getting this information?

Or is it just pure speculation?

clipperboy24
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Please dont put such speculative garbage out there. This might be the worst decision they could possibly make

KamanOwnsYou
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uh, we wouldnt do that, because KAMAN OWNS YOU!!!

JamFan
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Everything about Josh Smith sign and trades scenarios are pure speculation. The Clippers continued rumored interest in Josh Smith is based on Josh being the only player they have met with that was a major free agent. Remember the wine and dine. The Kaman scenario is the only viable way to pull off that trade. But my take only asks the question. Do you have the answer? Will the Clippers answer it for us? If they are truely done, personally I am overjoyed at where we are. On the other hand, has Kaman gone thru one single season where he played up to his expectations, and/or played without getting hurt and missing a good part of the season. From where I sit, KAMAN HASN'T OWNED ANYBODY YET for an entire season, worth 10 Mil. The first season after he signed the big deal every analyst believed he underperformed and didn't earn his money, and he got hurt. Last season he upped his game, but he suffered an injury that took him out for quite some time and he wasn't quite the same after he returned. Has Kaman earned his 10 Mil per season yet, even once? If so, tell me which season that was? Will he come back in this season tired from the overseas play? Will he have time to rest and then workout so he comes back strong again next season? Will he get hurt again next year? Will he ever earn the 12 Mil he is set to earn a couple of seasons from now? I report, you decide.

KamanOwnsYou
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yes, for this simple reason JamFan, I talked to Chris and he told me, in German, "tell that jam fan guy, that I OWN HIM!" lol

clipperfan714
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KAMAN owns everybody but YAO, & BYNUM. Those are the centers he has trouble with.

Other than that, there are no other true centers out there?

Is Dwight Howard a 4 or a 5? He seems more like a 4.

But why trade for a PF when you already have one in Thornton? Would you move Camby to the 5 and have both Smith & Thornton play the 3 & the 5 ?

clipshow
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Kaman does own Yao. Sorry the numbers speak. He never has trouble with yao. Bynum has a quick step but he still scores on bynum. But i agree with jamfan. You need to look at all possibilities to get better. I still think you could trade camby but we would need another piece to make the numbers work. But I still would like to experiment with a young smith on our up tempo team.

JamFan
Clipper All-Star
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I don't think Thorton is strong enough to play PF, Josh is more likely to be able to do that and his game is closer to the basket more often. Oh, and I forgot in my take two spots up, Kaman got hurt twice last season, missed games in two stretches, and finished the season on the DL. But he's playing for Germany! And he is averaging 10 PPG against the Sisters of Mercy. KAMAN OWNS THE SISTERS OF MERCY, scored 10. Which season was it he earned his 10 Mil?

KamanOwnsYou
Clipper Starter
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I think it was the same season Josh Smith played so well that he commanded more than 12 Million a season and didnt have a fall out with his coach.... I can be a smartass blogger too haha

clipperboy24
CTB MVP X1
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Repped High Quality Post

why in the world are you ripping on Kaman? He has had some injury problems bt for goodness sake are you clippers fan or Josh Smith fan... you need a reality check. Josh smith will get owned if he has to play in the west against the fours with an offensively challenged big like camby...

like i said before this is not a viable trade so stop saying that

JamFan
Clipper All-Star
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http://www.nba.com/playerfile/chris_kaman/

Go to Kamans nba.com player page and ready the Fantasy Player News which has all of Kaman's articles from last year. 30 articles in a row are about Chris Kaman, hurt and can not play. Not one article is about Kaman, healthy and earning his 10 Mil

KamanOwnsYou
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agreed. But more importantly, im glad you have snapped out of it and realized that Kaman is irreplacable lol. DeAndre needs to get some post moves and he will definetaly be a solid player. He has the athleticism, now he just needs to get some game and he is set.

JamFan
Clipper All-Star
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One of the key things that could happen this year for the Clippers is for Kaman to come back healthy and focused and have the kind of season that we all know he is capable of. Free of injury, I think that Kaman is capable of 20 and 12. I really do. He hasn't done it yet, and he has struggled with injuries almost every season. But if we are going to make a run, we can't do it without our man in the middle living up to his expectations.

ehall69
Clipper Rookie
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i just hate kaman because he's playing for germany. But he is defintely irreplaceable. Polished offensive post game and an underrated post defender and rebounder.

ether
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I seriously don't understand why there would be only negative articles about Kaman. Until he got hurt, he was among the league leaders in Rebs and Blocks. And statistically he was among the top 4 centers in the league. Dwight and Yao had better stats, Amare more of a PF, Camby better D less O, but no other centers had stats to match Kaman.

If Biedrins, Bogut and Okafor are worth over $10M a year; Kaman is easily worth that. The injuries don't define his skill or value. If injuries define a players value, then dump Yao, McGrady, Arenas, etc. etc. etc.

Lo!
Clipper D-League Pickup
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Josh Smith? It sound like the perfect NBA live roster with a bunch of dunkers playing out of position and winning the NBA in fantasy world. Then every sportcaster and GM in the league relishes how the Clippers ripped off the Hawks by trading big for small.

Sorry, for the sarcasm...just having fun.

This team is very balanced as it is and i think that a few more min. signings will take care of the rest. i don't see any need for Josh @ what he would cost us on this team. just My Opinion.

KamanOwnsYou
Clipper Starter
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Dunleavy said it best. "the two toughest positions to fill in this league is point gaurd and center" We have both with Kaman and Baron, why would we trade for an undersized 4? If this happens, it is sabatoge on a great season we are about to have. Plus since elton left, i need to burn his jersey and pick me up a Kaman. Should i go red or white?

journeyman
CTB MVP X1
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I'm an agreement with pro-Kaman. He is a legit center who can score and rebound. We've already got a SF with talent. Keep the roster and hope for a healthy season.

krapper11
Clipper Starter
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if i'm not mistaken kamans contract kicked in last year....he was on the last year of his rookie deal before that only making like 4 mil, could be wrong though....anyways trading kaman for josh ruins everything the clippers have put together this offseason....we have a solid roster now, a nice mix of veterans and youth, and financial flexibility in two years....why ruin that....this has been the best offseason the clippers FO has EVER enjoyed!...if dunleavy keeps this up i say promote him to GM!....

seanrooks
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I don't like the idea of this trade for a lot of reasons. For one, Kaman is a better player, and not as much of a headcase as Smith. Also, Kaman is important for us because good centers are tough to come by, and we could have a great one for many years to come. Camby would fill in for 2 years, but then what? Once Camby's gone, I'd rather build around Thornton and Kaman than Thornton and Smith(who, in my opinion, are almost the same player)

But if you disagree with me on that, look at it this way. If we got Josh Smith, he would be penciled in as our starting PF. Camby would be starting at center. Besides the fact that I think Camby is more of a PF anyway and that he's too thin to match up against bigger centers, Smith is small as well. While he is 6-9, he is not a power forward. Him and Thornton are the same player, really: very big, athletic small forwards. Both are great wing players but don't really play well in the post. And neither would be able to match up against real power forwards around the league, such as Boozer, Brand, Amare, Pau, David West, Bosh, Garnett...they are both just too small to guard any of those guys. Yes, Smith was a great shot blocker and was like second in the league to, our man, Camby. But both of them got a lot of blocks playing help D, not in one-on-one play. With Smith as our power forward, Camby wouldn't have much help down low and would get eaten on the boards much like Kaman did last year. My point is, a frontline of Kaman, Camby and Thornton is much better and tougher than Camby, Smith and Thornton.

MrB
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The FO has put a decent team together. To dump Kaman for Smith would be a stupid Clipper move of old. There aren't that dumb anymore.

I hope.

slestack11
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Do you think it's possible that the center that the Hawks covet on the Clippers is actually DeAndre Jordan? He looked pretty good in summer league and his upside is through the roof. What about Tim Thomas and DeAndre Jordan for Josh Smith? This will give the Clips their third option and give the Hawks and expiring contract and a future stud center.

MrB
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To do a sign and trade for Smith would mean he would be making starters money to come off the bench. That doesn't make any sense to me. the guy is gonna get somewhere around 9-11 mil a year. He is not gonna want to play behind Thornton or Camby for SF or PF. Then what do you do. Once we got Camby our part in the J.Smith sweepstakes went out the window.

clipshow
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Here is a new post on hoopsworld regarding smith. Talking about the byc and how to factor in salary. The clippers are not even mentioned.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9629

slestack11
Clipper All-Star
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If the Clippers acquire Josh Smith, Thornton will be coming off the bench. Either that or Thornton will be a part of the trade. We will have a front court of Josh Smith, Marcus Camby, and Chris Kaman.

toohipcliptoslip
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If it ain't broke don't fix it. Thornton has a great chance of being an allstar in two years and will be one of the premiere SF's in the league. Remember last yr? After mid season I half way wanted him to start and Corey on the bench (fat chance) Remember he had some monster games.

MrB
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Dude no way we trade thornton. Why force thornton to go to the bench. When he becomes a free agent we probably wouldn't bring him back either. Bad move to trade him or bench him.

seanrooks
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No matter what happens, we need to keep Thornton and Kaman. Those two guys are really good players who are really young. They are the guys we should be building around. Of course, we have Baron now too, but even he is getting old...

EI_Nino_Jesus
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Jamfan why, is the season not starting getting to you....just hang in there!!

clippers0918
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Hell no.

not happening and will never happen.

Lame suggestion!

kaman owns you :p

MrB
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Dude go with the red!

sz123456
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I think we're a solid team in either situation, mainly I want Kaman to stay because he's the only Clipper I recognize at the moment. If we did trade for Smith though, jeez we'd be awesome. Everyone says Smith is an undersized 4, but I think he would dominate the western conference. Who are the power forwards that everyone is scared of? Pau Gasol? Carlos Boozer? Dirk Nowitzki? David West? None of those guys are scary, in fact, they would be terrified of guarding Smith.

ehall69
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MrB wrote:
KamanOwnsYou wrote:
Dunleavy said it best. "the two toughest positions to fill in this league is point gaurd and center" We have both with Kaman and Baron, why would we trade for an undersized 4? If this happens, it is sabatoge on a great season we are about to have. Plus since elton left, i need to burn his jersey and pick me up a Kaman. Should i go red or white?

Dude go with the red!

go with the alternate blues! reds are gross

MrB
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Blues are better. but he said white or red. i like the red better then the white.

KamanOwnsYou
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I had a white one for elton. i wanna go blue or red. i should start a thread with a poll asking what color jersey i should buy haha. thanks for your input guys tho!

ehall69
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ha you gotta go blue, you have no choice

ClipperPride
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OK, let's make one thing clear: CK is a top 5 center in this league. PERIOD. The PG & C positions are the most difficult to fill, and the most important to have.

JamFan, you keep asking whether CK has earned the $10 million he was paid (in fact, last year, he made $8.6 M). Well, look at this list of all the centers who made about the same amount of more money than CK, and tell me who has earned their money, and who hasn't:

Chris Kaman:

  • salary: $ 8.6 M

  • PPG: 15.7

  • RPG: 12.7 (OFF: 3.1)

  • BPG: 2.8

  • misc: when F.Elton was injured, Kaman stepped up his offensive game big time; although he played in only 56 games last season, he played 78 & 75 games the two seasons before that

    vs...

1) Mark Blount - MIA Heat:

  • salary: $ 7.9 M

  • PPG: 8.4

  • RPG: 3.8 (OFF: 1.0)

  • BPG: 0.5

  • misc: what is there to say? The guy gets paid that money to play 22 min/game

2) Kwame Brown - LA Lakers/MEM Grizzlies:

  • salary: $ 9.4 M

  • PPG: 4.8

  • RPG: 4.9 (OFF: 1.3)

  • BPG: 0.6

  • misc: the former # 1 pick is largely viewed as one of the biggest busts @ number 1, along w/ our own Olowakandi; involved in the most-lopsided trade in recent memory centered around Pau Gasol

3) Marcus Camby - DEN Nuggets:

  • salary: $ 10 M

  • PPG: 9.1

  • RPG: 13.1 (OFF: 2.9)

  • BPG: 3.6

  • misc: the guy plays great D, but his O is limited at best

4) Tyson Chandler - NO Hornets:

  • salary: $ 10.5 M

  • PPG: 11.8

  • RPG: 11.7 (OFF: 4.1)

  • BPG: 1.1

  • misc: give him credit for the offensive boards, but nothing else about him is going to jump out at you

5) Eddy Curry - NY Knicks:

  • salary: $ 8.9 M

  • PPG: 13.2

  • RPG: 4.7 (OFF: 1.9)

  • BPG: 0.5

  • misc: he played only 59 games last season, and while CK's numbers are improving, his have been up and down

6) Samuel Dalembert - PHI 76ers:

  • salary: $ 10.3 M

  • PPG: 10.5

  • RPG: 10.4 (OFF: 3.7)

  • BPG: 2.3

  • misc: OK, so the traitor's new frontcourt teammate is a weaker, much more offensively challenged version of CK, without the moves around the basket

7) Erick Dampier - DAL Mavericks:

  • salary: $ 10.6 M

  • PPG: 6.1

  • RPG: 7.5 (OFF: 2.9)

  • BPG: 1.5

  • misc: a stiff player who was barely good enough to crack the starting line-up

8) Tim Duncan - SA Spurs:

  • salary: $ 19 M

  • PPG: 19.3

  • RPG: 11.3 (OFF: 3.0)

  • BPG: 1.9

  • misc: obviously a solid, consistent player who's won championships

9) Zydrunas Ilgauskas - CLE Cavaliers:

  • salary: $ 10.1 M

  • PPG: 14.1

  • RPG: 9.3 (OFF: 3.6)

  • BPG: 1.6

  • misc: one would think that a guy of his size ought to dominate the boards and on the defensive end

10) Raed LaFrentz - POR Trailblazers:

  • salary: $ 12.4 M

  • PPG: 1.7

  • RPG: 1.7 (OFF: 0.7)

  • BPG: 0.4

  • misc: over the last 2 seasons, he's played a total of 66 games, starting 9; even when healthy, his production does not warrant the money he makes

11) Brad Miller - SAC Kings:

  • salary: $ 10.5 M

  • PPG: 13.4

  • RPG: 9.5 (OFF: 2.5)

  • BPG: 1

  • misc: great mid-range jumper, but no D whatsoever

12) Yao Ming - HOU Rockets:

  • salary: $ 13.8 M

  • PPG: 22

  • RPG: 10.8 (OFF: 3.1)

  • BPG: 2

  • misc: he stands at 7'6", but plays more like he's 6'7"; he is soft, and so is his body - he's played only 57, 48, and 55 games the last 3 years

13) Nasho Nesterovic - TOR Raptors:

  • salary: $ 7.8 M

  • PPG: 7.8

  • RPG: 4.8 (OFF: 1.8)

  • BPG: 0.7

  • misc: why he even starts any game is a mystery to me

14) Jermaine O'Neal - IND Pacers:

  • salary: $ 19.7 M

  • PPG: 13.6

  • RPG: 6.7 (OFF: 2.0)

  • BPG: 2.1

  • misc: he gets paid an inordinate amount of money to get hurt, having played 44, 51, 69, and 42 games over the last 4 seasons

15) Shaquille O'Neal - MIA Heat/PHO Suns:

  • salary: $ 21 M

  • PPG: 13.6

  • RPG: 9.1 (OFF: 1.2)

  • BPG: 1.4

  • misc: let's not even talk about his FT%; his production is on the down slope - obviously, his championship rings are all the credentials he needs

16) Mehmet Okur - UTH Jazz:

  • salary: $ 9 M

  • PPG: 14.5

  • RPG: 7.7 (OFF: 1.8)

  • BPG: 0.4

  • misc: sure, the 3's are great, but on D, he is a liability

17) Amare Stoudemire:

  • salary: $ 13.8 M

  • PPG: 25.2

  • RPG: 9.1 (OFF: 2.3)

  • BPG: 2.1

  • misc: explosive scorer, but really plays more like a PF - listed at C only because he plays on the Suns

18) Kurt Thomas - SA Spurs/SEA Supersonics:

  • salary: $ 8.1 M

  • PPG: 6.3

  • RPG: 7.2 (OFF: 2.2)

  • BPG: 0.8

  • misc: he's a wily veteran and a good presence in the clubhouse, but at best, he's a bench player

19) Ben Wallace - CHI Bulls/CLE Cavaliers:

  • salary: $ 15.5 M

  • PPG: 4.8

  • RPG: 8.4 (OFF: 2.7)

  • BPG: 1.6

  • misc: amazing how a one-dimensional player got himself so much money; give his agent an award

Amongst all these players, only Stoudemire, Duncan truly deserve more money than Kaman; Yao Ming would, if he managed to stay healthy. Kaman's numbers compare favorably against all the rest; in fact, he was 2nd only to Camby in BPG, and his RPG would have been 3rd highest had he played enough games to qualify.

DO YOU STILL THINK KAMAN DOESN'T DESERVE HIS MONEY?!?!?!

MrB
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Nice accumulation of stats there CP! You know you can lead a horse to water but you can't make em drink. If this doesn't convince people of Kaman's worth then nothing will.

ehall69
Clipper Rookie
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Who thinks Kaman is overpaid? I hate the guy because he's playing for Germany, but Kaman is a bona fide steal at 8 mil. If they're paying guys like Bogut 12 mil a year, Kaman is vastly underpaid.

KamanOwnsYou
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we could be stuck with a ben wallace salary v production scenario, yikes!!!

clipshow
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Kamans dollar figure goes up every year. So he will be making 12 when his contract is up.

prouddad
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Spontane makes the most sense with his reasoning why Kaman for Smith would be a foolish trade for the Clips to consider.

Besides--contrary to what some in the media are speculating, I believe that Kaman and Canby will be a great fit together; possibly even better than Kaman and Brand. Brand and Kaman both operate on the inside. Brand's presence actually adversely effects Kaman's inside production. With Canby and his outside game, Kaman has more room to operate down low, but he still has rebounding and defensive help.

Kaman = inside

Canby = outside

I think that this will work out.

spontane
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thanks prouddad and welcome to c.tb.com. It's a friendly community hear with a lot of laker fans coming out of left field. I think laker fans are concerned that we have a legitimate team and are kinda scared. I liked clipperpride's money/skill comparison. Props. It really puts all the facts on the table. Welcome!

Miquel
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I completely agree. Kaman's contract is cheap considering what players like Okafor or Bogut are going to earn.

Kaman must be a Clipper for life

rollingkiwi92
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true. i think kamans gonna have a monster year this season.

KamanOwnsYou
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bc................

KAMAN OWNS YOU!!

ClipperPride
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Thanks Spontane. I was just really getting tired of people ripping on the Kaveman. Again, even if he were paid $12 M last season, he'd have earned it, especially when you compare him to all the other overpaid big men in the league.

By the same token, I think that we need to give our front office (INCLUDING Elgin Baylor) a lot of props for their moves, not just this offseason, but in seasons past. Remember, we got the traitor from the Bulls for Tyson Chandler, we got Maggette for close to nothing, we refused to give in to guys like Mo Taylor & Lamond Murray, both of whom asked for ridiculous amounts of money, and ended up doing jack squat once they got that money from elsewhere. Obviously, that's not to say they've made a lot of mistakes too (Olowakandi for instance). But over the past few seasons, they've done things right - matching the offer sheets for Brand & Maggette, signing the Kaveman to that multiyear contract, drafting Al Thornton, and this offseason is just off the charts, despite the whole Brand drama.

So, all in all, mad props to Elgin Baylor, the only true Clipper E.B., and Mike Dunleavy Jr, who's somehow managed to single-handedly change Donald Sterling's approach to his team.

I can't wait 'til the season starts...

sz123456
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 2356
votes: 13

After Elton's betrayal, I started to wonder if we'd ever have a player that stays long enough for us to retire his jersey. I want Kaman to be the first, that guy is awesome and his press statements are hilarious.

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