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Jay.r
13 Post Subject: The Official MIKE DUNLEAVY Discussion Thread Post ID: 25610by Jay.r » Nov 01, 2008 - 10:25 AM PST
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Kiss my butt, Mike Dunleavy

Saturday, Nov. 01 2008

Can anyone tell me why our players either runs out of time or shoots the ball when the clock is about to run out? Did he forget that it's now 24 seconds to shoot the ball rather than 28?

Dunleavy's plays takes too long, too many movements, but not very effective. No team really gets tricked with his plays! Most of the time, the play only has one player to which the ball was going to and the opponent usually knows which player it would be.I have noticed that in the first two games, BD had to always be creative to get our players open and when he was gone (His body is not made out of glass, is it?), well, you know what happened, difficult shots all over the court.


On his personnel, why does he keep posting and isolating Thomas and Mobley? These guys are not superstars and not very effective on the post. They should spread the ball around and not play such a half court offense.

We'll be more of a run-and-gun team and less of a half court team, Mike Dunleavy said, if I could recall correctly. I say "YEAH RIGHT"


Agree, disagree, comments?

Hollaback



                
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jlemmen43
Post Subject: RE: All about Dumbleavy Post ID: 25613by jlemmen43 » Nov 01, 2008 - 10:45 AM PST
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I didnt have the luxury of watching the game...but following it on cbs.sportsline, I could tell there was something wrong with Tim Thomas and Cuttino Mobley being the main guys on the court. They are not superstars as you say. Not even close. Their best role is supporting a star cast. Well Ours just happens to be sitting on the bench either injured or a "rookie". Except for Thornton.

Kaman will have a chance to flourish with Camby in the lineup. Cuz where Kaman is soft, Camby is tough. Camby's gonna make him look good and give him confidence. Chris is a whole different player with confidence.

That huge lead that dissappeared happened while Baron was still out, but the effects of him not playing took their toll when the game neared the end. Nobody to lead at the point. Mike Taylor did his best for what? 5 minutes or something. Then Jason Hart came in. Nothing aganist him, but without people who can score, he's not gonna be the one to do it.

Dunleavy needs to figure this team out or he will lose their respect. We have talent, but he needs to use it properly.

                
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MrHill
Post Subject: RE: All about Dumbleavy Post ID: 25651by MrHill » Nov 01, 2008 - 12:41 PM PST
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Right now, my biggest gripe with Dunleavy is his (lack of) in-game adjustments and substitution patterns. I think he's using these first two games to find out what group of five meshes with one other. Unfortunately, it's come at the expense of two humilating home losses. There has to be better ball movement (with or without the basketball), and less use of isolation plays. The guys are either lost, unmotivated, or both. Unlike some, I'm not calling for trades, at least not yet. The season is almost a week old, and when your roster is two-thirds new, it's going to take time to mesh, especially since two of our most valuable players have played one preseason game between them.

Knowing the micro-manager Mike Dunleavy is, it's hard to change ways. For him, this is a learning experience for him, as well as his players. However, his piss-poor in-game coaching has to change, and it has to change tonight in Salt Lake City. So far, he's been outcoached by two of the game's better coaches in Phil Jackson and George Karl, and we all know that Jerry Sloan isn't a slouch either. Dunleavy's best player is Al Thornton, and he has milk Big Al for everything it's worth, or we're getting killed again.

                
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clipper*joe
Post Subject: Re: All about Dumbleavy Post ID: 25654by clipper*joe » Nov 01, 2008 - 01:01 PM PST
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Jay.r wrote:

Saturday, Nov. 01 2008

Can anyone tell me why our players either runs out of time or shoots the ball when the clock is about to run out? Did he forget that it's now 24 seconds to shoot the ball rather than 28?

That is not his fault...it is the players fault for not being aware of the clock.

Quote:
Dunleavy's plays takes too long, too many movements, but not very effective. No team really gets tricked with his plays! Most of the time, the play only has one player to which the ball was going to and the opponent usually knows which player it would be.I have noticed that in the first two games, BD had to always be creative to get our players open and when he was gone (His body is not made out of glass, is it?), well, you know what happened, difficult shots all over the court.

Plays are not meant to trick, they are meant to be executed in a way where you screen for an open shot or isolate a player for a shot. I am not sold that it's Dunleavy's fault, I am sold that the players are not executing the plays properly.

Quote:
On his personnel, why does he keep posting and isolating Thomas and Mobley? These guys are not superstars and not very effective on the post. They should spread the ball around and not play such a half court offense.

Mobley has been great on the post...did you not watch yesterday's game? Thomas is getting better but I am not sold on his low post game just yet.

I think Dunleavy's preference on calling these plays has to do with mismatches. If I see a one on one mismatch, I would probably call the same play.

Quote:
We'll be more of a run-and-gun team and less of a half court team, Mike Dunleavy said, if I could recall correctly. I say "YEAH RIGHT"

Not sure he said it in that context. He did say he would apply run more with Baron but he never said he would run more than having a set offense.

So far, it looks like he is going with his plan.

                
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david
Post ID: 25676by david » Nov 01, 2008 - 02:14 PM PST
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^^Good points CJ and I agree with most of them. Mobley in particular is a very accomplished post player.

I do have a slight beef with that final play last night in regulation- personally I would've preferred a more creative play that resulted in an open jumper. It seemed to be just throw the ball to Tim Thomas in the post and everyone else stand and watch. Also I think Dunleavy should have played Taylor more over Hart, but I'll cut him some slack because he's still feeling out the capabilities of the newer guys.

                
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Hooch20
Post ID: 25687by Hooch20 » Nov 01, 2008 - 03:39 PM PST
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The reasons we always take shots late in the clock:

  1. Hart and Taylor take way to long to get the offense going. The crazy lady behind me even calls Taylor, Tap Tap Taylor because he just dribbles the ball for ever.

  2. Our wing players hold on to the ball to long looking for the perfect shot. Our ball movement was great in the first half and then in the second half we went back to our old ways. We just need to trust our teammates that when moving the ball we'll get an open shot.

  3. When dumping it into the post Kaman holds on to the ball to long as well. He needs to learn to make a move before he gets doubled. He never passes out of the post and the re-posts. This is something that all bigs do. Our guys also stand around way to much when the ball is in the post. In the first half guys were slashing and cutting, while this didn't happen in the second half.

Who knows. We had 1 good quarter on opening night. Two good quarters last night. Maybe tonight is 3 and Monday we'll finally put it all together.

                
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Derty_Bert
Post ID: 25705by Derty_Bert » Nov 01, 2008 - 05:39 PM PST
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I think I was the first to say MD should've been fired when he benched Livingston for Daniel Ewing on the defensive sequence when Raja Bell hit a three in his face in the playoffs. Hey...... do you guys know who was coaching Portland when they lost something like a 20 point lead in the fourth??? Dumleavy. ALmost everything he does is questionable to me, he should just handle GM duties and hire Henry Bibby I heard he was hanging aroung Clippers training camp this year. With BD out for tonights game i want to see if Gordon gets some run tonight. A smart coach would play him, I thought when we played the lakers MD was micro managing putting Cat on Kobe cuz he can guard him pretty good but CAt played alot of mins against Denver too.

                
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Hooch20
Post ID: 25706by Hooch20 » Nov 01, 2008 - 05:44 PM PST
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I agree with some of what you're saying, but Henry Bibby as our coach is laughable. He's awful.

Gordon doesn't really know how to play offense yet, let alone run a team. This is the main reason he isn't playing yet. He's got all of the talent in the world, but he needs to learn how to play the game.

                
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Derty_Bert
Post ID: 25708by Derty_Bert » Nov 01, 2008 - 05:45 PM PST
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I wouldn't play Gordon at the point, I would play him at the 2 for instant offense.

                
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Derty_Bert
Post ID: 25709by Derty_Bert » Nov 01, 2008 - 05:46 PM PST
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Avery Johnson is out there.

                
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Jay.r
22 Post Subject: Critical Questions for Clipper Nation Post ID: 25925by Jay.r » Nov 02, 2008 - 12:45 AM PST
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Is Dunleavy losing it?

Should he just become a full GM and retire from coaching? At least take a year off from coaching?

Should the Clippers try to hire Avery Johnson, at least for next year, when his contract with ESPN is out?

                
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Derty_Bert
Post Subject: RE: Critical Questions for Clipper Nation Post ID: 25930by Derty_Bert » Nov 02, 2008 - 01:00 AM PST
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Of course! I've had it with him.

                
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jarca
Post ID: 25932by jarca » Nov 02, 2008 - 01:05 AM PST
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naw dunleavy is fined

                
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ekker3
Post Subject: Re: Critical Questions for Clipper Nation Post ID: 25933by ekker3 » Nov 02, 2008 - 01:08 AM PST
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dont be fooled by those playoff runs, avery johnson is a horrible coach. his players hated him and thats pretty much the reason he was given the boot. players were even demanding to be traded if avery was sticking around.

MDSr is the best option we have at the moment. unless you wanna get hubie brown from the nursing home.

                
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sz123456
Post Subject: Re: Critical Questions for Clipper Nation Post ID: 25945by sz123456 » Nov 02, 2008 - 01:57 AM PST
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Really? I thought they liked him.

                
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journeyman
Post ID: 25952by journeyman » Nov 02, 2008 - 01:21 AM PST
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"Is Dunleavy losing it?"

Losing what? Players to injury? Yeah, it seems like it. Two starters, that's a prety big handicap. A better question might be if Coach Dunleavy should have the team perform better despite injuries, like Rick Adelman with the Rockets, or McMillan with the Blazers. In which case, yeah, he probably should.

"Should he just become a full GM and retire from coaching? At least take a year off from coaching?"

Right now, I'd like to see how he does with Baron Davis. We've seen a grand total of one reg. season game with the both of them, and it was not an indicative one. Also, curious to see how he works Camby into his system, because we could really use someone with his talent in the lineup.

"Should the Clippers try to hire Avery Johnson?"

It seems more like they carried him into the finals, not the other way around. He demanded D. Harris for Jason Kidd, which didn't make him any friends in the organization. And if we're going to lure away an announcer, I'd rather have JVG (despite his notorious grind-it-out system).

                
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Derty_Bert
Post ID: 25969by Derty_Bert » Nov 02, 2008 - 06:01 AM PST
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The Mavs players didn't like Avery for the same reason Maggette didn't like MD. Avery preaches defense and since when did the players dictate who's their head coach. Who knows if thats true, I really don't believe it, if they don't win it this year then what will they say. The Mavs won't get as far as Avery got them anytime soon. It was probably J Kidd Im pretty sure him and Avery went at it a few times during their careers.

                
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Jay.r
Post ID: 25973by Jay.r » Nov 02, 2008 - 09:14 AM PST
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Actually, I believe it was Cuban who wanted to make that deal go through.

As for the players anger, I believe that they should be more angry at Dirk for not showing up at the playoffs.

Jeff Van Gundy, Avery Johnson, my school janitor, I don't care. Just fire Dunleavy (well, maybe not the janitor). How about a new uprising coach from the collegiate level perhaps?

                
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clipper*joe
Post Subject: Re: Critical Questions for Clipper Nation Post ID: 25976by clipper*joe » Nov 02, 2008 - 09:34 AM PST
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Jay.r wrote:
Is Dunleavy losing it?

Should he just become a full GM and retire from coaching? At least take a year off from coaching?

Should the Clippers try to hire Avery Johnson, at least for next year, when his contract with ESPN is out?

Avery Johnson is more of a control freak. When he was fired, here is what Dirk N said :

Quote:
"I had a good time with Avery," Nowitzki said Thursday. "But sometimes I wish we had communicated a little more. We all know Avery ran a little dictatorship here. I think this league is still a league of players, not a coaches league." ...

And as for the Mavericks' offense that slowed to a crawl, particularly in the playoffs, Nowitzki said:

"Avery had a really strong will of what should go on out there, and he controlled the game a lot. I don't think there was enough movement going on. People were just sitting on our stuff, especially in the playoffs. We just couldn't score enough."

...I agree with him. Avery isn't the answer...Dunleavy is. Dunleavy created this team for a reason and I am willing to stick it out with him.

What I see on the floor isn't a coaching problem ( maybe some isolated substitutions). You can't blame the coach for shot selection or shooting percentage, that falls directly on the players.

                
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clipper*joe
Post ID: 25977by clipper*joe » Nov 02, 2008 - 09:38 AM PST
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Jay.r wrote:
journeyman wrote:
"Is Dunleavy losing it?"

Losing what? Players to injury? Yeah, it seems like it. Two starters, that's a prety big handicap. A better question might be if Coach Dunleavy should have the team perform better despite injuries, like Rick Adelman with the Rockets, or McMillan with the Blazers. In which case, yeah, he probably should.

"Should he just become a full GM and retire from coaching? At least take a year off from coaching?"

Right now, I'd like to see how he does with Baron Davis. We've seen a grand total of one reg. season game with the both of them, and it was not an indicative one. Also, curious to see how he works Camby into his system, because we could really use someone with his talent in the lineup.

"Should the Clippers try to hire Avery Johnson?"

It seems more like they carried him into the finals, not the other way around. He demanded D. Harris for Jason Kidd, which didn't make him any friends in the organization. And if we're going to lure away an announcer, I'd rather have JVG (despite his notorious grind-it-out system).

Actually, I believe it was Cuban who wanted to make that deal go through.

As for the players anger, I believe that they should be more angry at Dirk for not showing up at the playoffs.

Jeff Van Gundy, Avery Johnson, my school janitor, I don't care. Just fire Dunleavy (well, maybe not the janitor). How about a new uprising coach from the collegiate level perhaps?

Correct, it was Cuban who used his executive power to acquire Kidd. He was desperate and made a stupid move instead of letting Avery go.

                
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sz123456
Post ID: 25986by sz123456 » Nov 02, 2008 - 12:31 PM PST
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I have faith in Dunleavy. Personally, I think all of Al Thornton's development is because of Dunleavy's mentorship, same thing with Brand and Kaman - I know we're all mad at Kaman, but he is a lot better than he used to be. Nothing can really be said until we see this team healthy and play at least half a season together, we currently have almost 30million dollars worth of salary sitting on the bench with injuries

                
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Derty_Bert
Post ID: 26006by Derty_Bert » Nov 02, 2008 - 06:21 PM PST
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Thornton and Brand were pretty much developed I'll give him credit for Kaman though.(how far has he come along) Thornton Played five years in college and brand was co rookie of the year, they already had game. MD had never made anybody better. We had Matt Barnes, Eddie House, Q Rich, Andre Miller,and Maggette might average 30 this year. Still glad he's not a clipper. But for the last few years the Clippers have been one of the younger teams in the league. He drafted kaman livingston korolev ewing p davis and chalmers, I didn't like any of dunleavys picks until the last two years(Al and EG), I took a liking to Livingston after watching him play Kaman too, but every other pick was a bust. Baylor made the move for Brand and most of the fan favorites, except BD.

                
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Jay.r
Post ID: 26035by Jay.r » Nov 02, 2008 - 10:54 PM PST
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I agree, we're not really good with player development, especially with teaching rookies common fundamentals. Keep in mind that we constantly draft young talented players year after year with the tools to be great in the NBA and it just never seems to pan out. The only exception was Maggette.

Kaman's footwork never seem to improve and his overall skill set seem to be degrading. He still does'nt understand simple post fundamentals such as how to score. It seems like Kaman's mind is already made up about what he's going to do and disregarding what the defense gives him. He's moves are very mechanical and predictable.

I can't really knock Al Thornton because he's the only one that gives the Clippers some light, but his footwork is still sloppy, although he is just a sophomore so I'll still give him some time.

                
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MrB
Post ID: 26041by MrB » Nov 02, 2008 - 11:25 PM PST
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To me I think the people who are writing to string up MDsr. are jumping the gun here. 9 new players with the 2 main stars hurt and you expect to win? Get serious. They didn't play in the preseason and they are not playing now. Hart and Taylor are not starting PG's. The team needs to be at full strength for atleast 15-25 games before you can gauge their capabilities. NBA champs always have their starters play majority of the season. You can't blame BD and MC being hurt on MDsr. Whether you want to admit it or not this team is in a rebuilding mode. It takes alot of time to come together and mesh. If our starters can get healthy for a long period of time I think they will win and all the complaining will be an afterthought. If they don't get healthy the drama will continue.

                
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AJCLIP
Post ID: 26116by AJCLIP » Nov 03, 2008 - 11:17 AM PST
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Although I question some of the play calls over the years of Dunleavy (esp putting whats his name on Raja Bell for the last play of the playoffs)

I think 3 games deep with all the injuries we definately are jumping gun. With a full squad and 20 games in then we can critique.

Dunleavy did help build this team and he was the one that help us bounce back with some moves after EB jacked us this summer. Lets give him the chance to play the cards he has....

                
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Derty_Bert
Post ID: 26142by Derty_Bert » Nov 03, 2008 - 04:18 PM PST
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How many new players did the celtics have last year? They won it all.

                
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clipper*joe
Post ID: 26157by clipper*joe » Nov 03, 2008 - 05:31 PM PST
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Not sure but that team had 2 new ALL-STAR caliber players along with another ALL-STAR already on that team. Kind of makes it easier when you have that along with their veteran status.

                
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journeyman
Post ID: 26158by journeyman » Nov 03, 2008 - 05:40 PM PST
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clipper*joe wrote:
Derty_Bert wrote:
How many new players did the celtics have last year? They won it all.

Not sure but that team had 2 new ALL-STAR caliber players along with another ALL-STAR already on that team. Kind of makes it easier when you have that along with their veteran status.

You beat me to it.

The celtics fans wanted Doc's head on a platter the previous season (pre-KG and Allen). They felt it was all his fault they couldn't win any games with Gerald Green and Al Jefferson surrounding their perrenial all-star Paul Pierce. In fact, there were articles wondering if Rivers would screw up their newly revamped team (sound familiar?). Anyway, it is obvious that winning cures everything. When Baron and Camby et al are finally back together, the wins should start to accumulate.

If Baron didn't take that nasty fall, we could realistically be 2-1 right now, and all this doomsaying from well-meaning (if a little short-sighted) fans in this forum would be for not. But hey, why bother with excuses. Were 0-3 and we're getting our guys back. And even then, it's going to take some time for them to adjust. As mentioned in an earlier thread, Trial-and-Error is going to have to be the mantra through the rough first month.

To those who are doing so, stop calling for the dismantling of this team before we've ever seen it on the court in the first place.

                
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frankiefkmor
Post ID: 26161by frankiefkmor » Nov 03, 2008 - 05:48 PM PST
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Like I have said b4 and I will say it again...MDSR has done a great job as our"GM" getting all those new players but his coaching has always been less than been desired. He is an below average coach , averaged at times. He has really never done anything spectacular with us or any other team...please don't say he did a great job with the Fakers. He has always had terrible rotations and his teams always fold under pressure. trust me I respect him for doing what he has done to this point with our team but I am not or never have been convinced that he is the one who could lead this team to a Championship...and THATS WHAT I WANT! I have tasted the playoffs but that is not enough.

                
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journeyman
Post ID: 26170by journeyman » Nov 03, 2008 - 06:04 PM PST
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I hear you. I'm okay with Mike Dunleavy as GM; not so much as coach, let alone both. But I don't think he's hopeless (exasperatingly stubborn, but not hopeless). He doesn't like playing rookies, but he has given rookie PG Mike Taylor a healthy dose of minutes. I'm hoping he relents and starts using more Gordon as well (not thirty minutes a game, but at least more than ten). Also, he needs to change whatever he does at the half because they come out totally flat in the third (the Lakers used to have the same problem pre-Gasol).

This is Dunleavy's chance to prove that Sam alone didn't carry us. We'll know more about what he's truly made of after a month.

                
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frankiefkmor
Post ID: 26184by frankiefkmor » Nov 03, 2008 - 06:51 PM PST
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Journeyman...Honestly, Don't you think we know enough about MDSR already? There is always some type of excuse for this guy. I honestly think we have had enough almost every year he has been our coach to at least make us an 8th seed. FElton, Maggette and Kaman should of been enough for that. Its frustrating!! Tonight I am taking the whole fam bam and I was hoping the whole squad was gonna be together but it looks like Baron is gonna sit this one out. Hope Its not a blow out and the Fam wants to leave at the half!! Sad

                
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journeyman
Post ID: 26189by journeyman » Nov 03, 2008 - 07:04 PM PST
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Like I said, this team is completley Dunleavy's now. Aside from Sam (and the occasinal moments from Shaun), there hasn't been a good PG. But he has one in Baron, and an exciting upstart in Mike Taylor as well. Injuries mean an 0-3 start is not a cause for alarm (yet), but it doesn't excuse losing either (the Nuggets game, for example, should not have been an overtime loss).

Camby comes back tonight, rust and all. Here's hoping they play all four quarters (and not just the first half).

                
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Derty_Bert
Post ID: 26206by Derty_Bert » Nov 03, 2008 - 08:34 PM PST
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Whether they were all stars or not on the Celtics, the point I was trying to make is most of those guys never played with each other before last season and they still won 60 something games. As far as All-Stars we have two and a possible B Davis, and Kaman's been close the last couple of years and Al Thornton is a future all star, gordon too. But for most of the players on the roster to be known to be scorers i'm baffled at how we can't put up points, we gave it up to denver and who plays defense in Denver? That was like coaching a pick up game

                
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OneNationUnderClip
Post Subject: Dunleavy is the real problem Post ID: 26333by OneNationUnderClip » Nov 04, 2008 - 12:44 AM PST
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Dunleavy did a good job this summer rebuilding the team after that D-Bag Elton Brand left, but really, this guy couldnt coach a high school team to a win. He has to be one of the worst coaches we've ever had. He actually makes me miss Alvin Gentry and Bill Fitch.

I mean come on, isolation play after isolation play after every full timeout. Thats the best you got Dunleavy? Another iso play for Tim Thomas? And we have so much talent on this team, use it! Ricky Davis has scored like 2 points over the last 3 games, for the love of all that is holy, put E Gordon in there. He couldnt do any worse! Dunleavy has no idea how to use his rotations, his halfcourt offensive decisions dont work, and the team looks lost on defense. OK, give them time to gel blah blah blah. We are now 0-4. A real coach makes adjustments after the first half of basketball. What is Dunleavy saying to them? It makes me wonder if the real reason Elton Brand left is because he didnt want to play for Dunleavy anymore. Sure it would have been great to play with Baron, but Dunleavy outweighed that decision. Peace out says Elton.

Im serious, something needs to be done about Dunleavy. I think we have enough talent on this team to win. But there will never be this chemistry everyone on this site keeps talking about as long as a terrible coach is at the helm.

and will someone please give him some fashion advice? those jackets and that comb-over are a joke

sorry to sound so Debbie Downer, but i just cant stand the guy at the moment

                
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journeyman
Post Subject: RE: Dunleavy is the real problem Post ID: 26335by journeyman » Nov 04, 2008 - 12:49 AM PST
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Brand has already gone on record as saying he left despite liking Dunleavy, not because of him (someone posted it already on another thread).

Health is the real problem. We got a taste of what our starting lineup looks like. Now they just have to round into form (conditioning wise as well as chemistry).

                
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OneNationUnderClip
Post Subject: RE: Dunleavy is the real problem Post ID: 26336by OneNationUnderClip » Nov 04, 2008 - 12:50 AM PST
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i dont buy it

                
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highr0lla
Post Subject: RE: Dunleavy is the real problem Post ID: 26338by highr0lla » Nov 04, 2008 - 12:54 AM PST
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You know what? I know people on this site will give me crap for saying this but, I think a TRUE fan knows when to complain about their team. A TRUE fan lets his/her opinions come out freely, bad or good. And right now, there obviously isn't anything good that can be said about the team that we all love, that means its time to at least say what we want about our team. Sure the team needs some time to build team chemistry and all but, if you think Dunleavy's really done a DECENT job lately then you're out of your mind. And me being a TRUE fan I'll gripe all I want about the crappy job that Dunleavy's been doing. We have to get the ball to Thornton more often...he played something like 41 minutes tonight and only got 9 shots. When our supposed main scorer only gets a measly 9 shot attempts out of the 41 minutes he played, there is a major coaching problem. There is no way that a struggling Mobley and Thomas should be taking more shots than Thornton. And I agree 100% with OneNation. Maybe Dunleavy really IS the problem This is the same guy who didn't want to give Maggette playing time and didn't use Thornton last year until the end. Either he figures out that he's got a pretty good team and uses them all instead of just mobley and thomas, or we let this guy go. He's had 5 years with the Clips and has a record of 175-238. Maybe he really is the problem....

                
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clipperboy24
Post Subject: Re: Dunleavy is the real problem Post ID: 26339by clipperboy24 » Nov 04, 2008 - 12:54 AM PST
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I dont think they are supposed to be Iso plays for TT. At least it never looks like he is playing with the others in an offensive set (not a designed iso at least). Dunleavy has shown he can be a great coach in the lakers blazers and clippers (lets not forget 06 playoffs) It four games in and we have already been decimated by injuries...

give it time please:)

                
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journeyman
Post Subject: RE: Dunleavy is the real problem Post ID: 26340by journeyman » Nov 04, 2008 - 12:56 AM PST
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"I don;'t buy it."

You don't have to. The games will speak for themselves. You're choosing to measure the first four games. Remember last year, first four wins blah blah blah. I'm giving it a month before anything substantial can be measured.

                
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OneNationUnderClip
Post Subject: RE: Dunleavy is the real problem Post ID: 26341by OneNationUnderClip » Nov 04, 2008 - 12:59 AM PST
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It is supposed to be ISO plays for Thomas. Dunleavy said after the Denver game that the last play of regulation was supposed to be an ISO shot for TT because he had the "hot hand." Thomas had made one shot in the previous 12 minutes before that. Another great call from Dunleavy

                
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toohipcliptoslip
Post ID: 26342by toohipcliptoslip » Nov 04, 2008 - 12:59 AM PST
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Bro' you're not Debbie Downer. You hit the nail on the head. I never criticise MDSR. but he is the problem. Chemistry my buns. BD didn't play well and Chris was a monster. Camby played well. We had no shooters. No one could break down the defense 'cause there is no where to dish. They protect the paint and there's no where to pass. I HATE ROOKIES BUT... Gordon and Ricky should have had big minutes and Novak should have played. Play them out of their slump. We didn't expect to win anyway and when the problem became obvious Dumbleavy should have fixed it So we lose but make it a learning experience so we win next time.Why isn't Chris getting their bigs in foul trouble? He's never at the line

                
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journeyman
Post ID: 26345by journeyman » Nov 04, 2008 - 01:05 AM PST
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By all means, criticize this team if you feel you must. I'm not for advocating absolute positivity. Dunleavy ain't perfect. His rotations tend to come a few minutes too late, and he won't play Gordon. Those are valid things to complain about.

His combover and his suits are utterly irrelevant.

I also kindly disagree that there is nothing good to be said. Camby looked GOOD on the court with Kaman in limited minutes. It was literally his first game, and he looked like he can coexist with Kaman. Camby said before the game he is a no-nonsense kinda guy and clearly Kaman responds to someone riding his back (the way Sam did).

Also, the team is getting healthy, slowly but surely. Baron is not even 100% but he's playing through the pain (as he should be, of course).

We got Taylor at 55. He's going to contribute.

A "true fan" is not measured by how loud you're cheering, nor is criticizing the team indicative of somehow being an fake fan. But sometimes people have a way of losing perspective.

                
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highr0lla
Post ID: 26346by highr0lla » Nov 04, 2008 - 01:12 AM PST
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Dunleavy's rotations come in a few minutes late, or never comes in at all. I'm utterly confused by his "logic" if I can even call it that now.

Oh and I'm saying all this not just from seeing the first 4 games of this season, but I'm judging it since two years ago. And please, don't mention that his teams have been plagued by injuries. A good coach finds ways to patch things up and hold the ship up until that "Star" player gets back. Just look at the Wizards, I'm not sure of the last time when their 3 best players have been on the court at once and all healthy, yet they figure out ways to stay above .500. I know they play in the East and all but still, I'm just saying that a good team/coach knows how to get the most out of their players when worse comes to worst.

                
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journeyman
Post ID: 26347by journeyman » Nov 04, 2008 - 01:14 AM PST
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And don't forget the Rockets as well.

                
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highr0lla
Post ID: 26348by highr0lla » Nov 04, 2008 - 01:18 AM PST
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journeyman wrote:
highr0lla wrote:
Dunleavy's rotations come in a few minutes late, or never comes in at all. I'm utterly confused by his "logic" if I can even call it that now.

Oh and I'm saying all this not just from seeing the first 4 games of this season, but I'm judging it since two years ago. And please, don't mention that his teams have been plagued by injuries. A good coach finds ways to patch things up and hold the ship up until that "Star" player gets back. Just look at the Wizards, I'm not sure of the last time when their 3 best players have been on the court at once and all healthy, yet they figure out ways to stay above .500. I know they play in the East and all but still, I'm just saying that a good team/coach knows how to get the most out of their players when worse comes to worst.

And don't forget the Rockets as well.

Exactly! They're almost always missing one of their top 2 players, who happens to be some of the best players there is in this league. YET they know how to not only stay afloat, but excel in other ways to make the playoffs. They might not get past the first round, but they KNOW how to deal with injuries. Dunleavy doesn't :/

                
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toohipcliptoslip
Post ID: 26349by toohipcliptoslip » Nov 04, 2008 - 01:21 AM PST
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If you are a boxer and you're getting hammered with a left jab, a true fan will tell to keep your hands up. Everyone is pissed and is looking for the right soultion. This isn't negative.Last year or last game doesn't matter. Our goa is to find out why we're being picked apart in the second half. WE go ice cold and get killed by 100 pts. 100 pts ain't chemistry The combover? LMAO

                
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highr0lla
Post ID: 26350by highr0lla » Nov 04, 2008 - 01:24 AM PST
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I think we already know why we're getting picked apart in the 2nd half. Dunleavy constantly gives the ball to Thomas and Mobley, when he should be feeding it to Al Thornton. I don't know anymore....maybe the team will understand what Dunleavy's trying to say in like another 4 years....

                
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toohipcliptoslip
Post ID: 26351by toohipcliptoslip » Nov 04, 2008 - 01:26 AM PST
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ps the postive, Camby looked good. Chris hit a jumper. He laid down the "In your Face" and he had my predicted 30 (some combination of pts and rebs)

                
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journeyman
Post ID: 26353by journeyman » Nov 04, 2008 - 01:30 AM PST
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highr0lla wrote:
journeyman wrote:
highr0lla wrote:
Dunleavy's rotations come in a few minutes late, or never comes in at all. I'm utterly confused by his "logic" if I can even call it that now.

Oh and I'm saying all this not just from seeing the first 4 games of this season, but I'm judging it since two years ago. And please, don't mention that his teams have been plagued by injuries. A good coach finds ways to patch things up and hold the ship up until that "Star" player gets back. Just look at the Wizards, I'm not sure of the last time when their 3 best players have been on the court at once and all healthy, yet they figure out ways to stay above .500. I know they play in the East and all but still, I'm just saying that a good team/coach knows how to get the most out of their players when worse comes to worst.

And don't forget the Rockets as well.

Exactly! They're almost always missing one of their top 2 players, who happens to be some of the best players there is in this league. YET they know how to not only stay afloat, but excel in other ways to make the playoffs. They might not get past the first round, but they KNOW how to deal with injuries. Dunleavy doesn't :/

Your points are thought out and explained very well.

I would personally rather wait to see how the rest of November unfolds before declaring anything on the new GM/coach. The reason I'm giving him a clean slate is because the team is now his responsibility 100 percent, unlike before. this means he will have no more excuses at this point if the team can't get it together. HOWEVER, I"m not anxiously awaiting for him to screw up. Maybe I've lost my mind ( wink ) but it seems that it would be in the interest of the fans to see Dunleavy succeed, not fail. Therefore, I'd rather give him a fair chance to see what one season looks like under Dunleavy as both GM and coach.

In the meantime, he is certainly open to scrutiny. But isn't the discussion always funner when the arguments are meaningful, instead of questioning each other's loyalties and lobbing personal insults around?

We lost tonight. At least we finally saw Baron and Camby. And Kaman's coming around.

                
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toohipcliptoslip
Post ID: 26356by toohipcliptoslip » Nov 04, 2008 - 01:40 AM PST
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The bun bite with Dumbleavy goes back years. Remember not telling Sam about the 8 sec. The substitution when Bell beat us. Destroying the team with his public feud with Magettee so bad we couldn't keep Doug Christie for 10 days? We should have been 2nd round PO's Thomas and Cat are playing hard but unless we get more offense we're screwed and it's his job to develop the great shooters we have.

                
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