Kaman takes 17 shots a game.

I think both he and Gordon should be averaging around 15.

On top of that, Kaman is a blackhole on offense. He rarely kicks out/passes the ball, even when double or triple teamed. That is a HUGE problem.

Well, I know that have seen him put shots up during double AND triple teams.

Regardless, feeding Kaman the ball OVER and OVER AGAIN clearly is not the answer, as we are mediocre team right now.

IMO, this team would improve offensively if Gordon was the focal point over Kaman.

Let me defend Kaman here. Sure EJ should be getting more touches but how many times recently have we seen a shot chart of EJ shooting 5 for 17 or so??? Why should we be feeding EJ when he's not aggressive at looking for his shot or he's jacking up 3's? I know he's an outside shooter but if he would cut to the basket more he would sure be getting the ball more. Not to mention he needs to start looking for shots and it can't all be blamed on coach. Notice how Kaman was out 3 or 4 games and we lost all of them, he returns and we win 2 straight? That doesn't happen because he's a black hole. It happens because he's the best Center in the league this year and damn straight deserves 17 shots a game.

EJ has shown absolutely 0 desire to lead this team and be aggressive offensively. I expected more from him on offense but Kaman and Baron are hands down the scorers for us lately. It's not coaches fault, only EJ's for not taking shots. He passes up tons of shot yet only manages like 2 apg, which isn't very efficient. I was thinking he could be a Dwyane Wade type with more range but the more I watch i'm thinking Ray Allen 2.0 with improved defense who will always border on all star level but never quite become an elite guard.

Hate to admit it but Eric Gordon's shots are his own fault. Yes there are times when he is open and he doesn't get the ball but there are way more times when he just walks around the court. Only thing Dunleavy has ever done to hamper EJ was that dumb moment when he played him at point. Other than that EJ has to move around like Butler and demand the ball.

Check the Clippers' record when EJ doesn't play, and tell me he's not just as important as Kaman...

i still think kaman is the best player we have in dun dun's system, but ej is a big reason kaman can do what he does.

EJ is not the reason Kaman can do what he does. Baron has more to do with it than EJ.

And if you are going to say that opposing teams plan for EJ more than Kaman, that is not the case. Kaman demands double teams...EJ doesn't.

I think the second half of this is absolutely true... Kaman is the guy on this team, our best player and the one the opposition has to game plan against the most... Still Kaman wouldn't be able to do what he's doing without guys around him who can spread the floor, who can punish them when they come down to double team.... Gordon is our top 3 point threat... With a lesser shooter out on the perimeter, we'd struggle to score, because the defense would just sag into the paint. Baron and Kaman would both be less effective...

If you'll notice, the team started playing better at exactly the time Butler started knocking down shots... You need to have inside AND outside threats to be trule effective... Baron and Kaman work well together, but if Gordon and Butler we're threats out there, we'd be miserable...

I would like an explanation like Joe. How can a guy who averages 2.5 apg be the main factor in Kaman's big play lol??? Not to mention you can't formulate EJ missing a few games as if it's a consistent reason for losses. The only reason I did that with Kaman is because it was 100 percent obvious Kaman's absence was the reason for losses. Without Kaman we are 0-4 that's all I know. When EJ was out we struggled some but not nearly as bad as when Kaman was out.

EJ is a very talented player but i'm a very realistic guy. I don't understand those of you that are defending him. To start the season he was on fire and looked much improved but what has he done lately? All of his stats have dropped and he's not being aggressive enough on offense and he's making VERY poor decisions with his turnovers. Baron,Camby and Kaman are the 3 players responsible for keeping our playoff hopes alive PERIOD. Thornton and Gordon have both been disappointments for me.

EJ's biggest problem is his lack of confidence. He doesn't move without the ball AT ALL nor does he take smart shots. The reason you'll see quite a few games where he shoots like 5-19 or so is because he holds the ball till D collapses on him then tries to score. Remember 17 or 18 ppg isn't good for EJ. The guy can drop 25 plus very easily.

For sure Joe. I think that's exactly why i'm irritated with EJ. I know damn well he can score 25 no problem. He needs to stop standing around being lazy when he doesn't have the ball. Slash to the hoop or come off screens EJ!

Throughout HS and College, EJ was THE go-to-guy. Everything went through him, but now, he's just one of the guys. It may be tough for him to deal with. Looking at his games at Indiana, he looked so confident, you would see him hit shots from way beyond the arc with ease. He has that kind of range. But nowadays, I notice he's a little more reluctant, maybe cause Dunleavy is telling him to drive more. If that's the case, it is definitely not an optimal utilization of his skillset.

Why isn't him slashing to the rim utilizing his skill set? The guy is unstoppable attacking the rim. He either gets fouled or scores over defenders. It's common sense if you're good at slashing you should impliment it as well as shooting, so you're not as predictable. Plus good players always look to expand their game, much like Kaman did this year with his mid range jumper.

^^ at CF86

EJ is one of the main reasons we are winning this year

with ej, we are 16 and 16 (four of the losses were when kaman was out) and without him we are 3 and 7(Camby Butler Baron and Kaman were all playing).

i challenge you to watch a game and only watch ej play( in fact, just watch the game where we beat the lakers. ej shut down kobe when he was matched up on him). he is already a SHUT DOWN defender, he spreads the floor and he draws fouls when dun dun lets him play.

im not saying he is the only reason we win games, i am just trying to open you eyes as to what ej brings to the floor every game even if his shots arent falling.

i still think kaman is the best player we have in dun dun's system, but ej is a big reason kaman can do what he does.

Throughout HS and College, EJ was THE go-to-guy. Everything went through him, but now, he's just one of the guys. It may be tough for him to deal with. Looking at his games at Indiana, he looked so confident, you would see him hit shots from way beyond the arc with ease. He has that kind of range. But nowadays, I notice he's a little more reluctant, maybe cause Dunleavy is telling him to drive more. If that's the case, it is definitely not an optimal utilization of his skillset.

SamMays wrote:

I think the second half of this is absolutely true... Kaman is the guy on this team, our best player and the one the opposition has to game plan against the most... Still Kaman wouldn't be able to do what he's doing without guys around him who can spread the floor, who can punish them when they come down to double team.... Gordon is our top 3 point threat... With a lesser shooter out on the perimeter, we'd struggle to score, because the defense would just sag into the paint. Baron and Kaman would both be less effective...


I beg to differ. At least 50% of his shots come from the perimeter...and that is on the conservative side. Most of those come from Baron's penetration...not spreading the floor. What happens is that kaman's man leaves him to protect the paint which leaves Kaman open. Plus, Gordon is usually on the weak side and far from the play. Gordon's man doesn't have to double...there are closer defenders that come to help.

On double teams, it's usually the wingman or PG that comes to help, Gordon's man is usually 20 ft out. Unless Gordon demands a double, I don't see how you attribute Gordon for kaman's success. fact is, we are a horrible outside shooting team and teams know that. That is why they plan for Kaman, not our outside shooting. Either way, Kaman does so many things on his own that giving credit to a 3pt shooter or our horrible outside shooters is a fallacy.

this post needs to be changed to Dunleavy's underutilization of the entire team.... How about not using Novak to his strengths or Deandre Jordan, Or even using Baron as a top 5 point guard. This moron should be let go. they showed his career numbers on TNT and there horrible this man has had 17 years to show what he has. A losing record after 17 years just plain simply means this guy stinks and should give other coaches a chance to fail after 17 years....

Joe, I think you disagreed with the part of my post I was agreeing with you on ... Yes, Kaman gets a lot of his points on jump shots around the key. Many of these come from Baron's penetration. No doubt... My point is without Gordon on the perimeter as a threat to hit shots and, now, Sool, it would be much harder for Baron to penetrate. A team that can't hit shots from the perimeter is a very easy team to stop... It takes both. I wasn't taking credit from Baron and giving it to Gordon... I was simply saying, there is a dominoe effect... Baron is able to help Kaman as much as he can, because Gordon and Butler help keep the defense spread making it easier for Baron to penetrate...

How many times have we seen Butler parked in the right corner. Baron drives right and if Butler's defender sags to help, he kicks it to Butler for the open three... If Butler is hitting that shot, that defender has to think twice about how much help he gives. Same thing with anyone guarding Gordon because frequently, weak side guards sag into the middle to pick up penetrators so strong side defenders can stay home to stop the easy kick outs to hot shooters.

Defense in the NBA is all about getting help, trying to disguise where that help is coming from and then rotating quickly to cover for the helpers. The better the outside shooting, the easier it is for everyone.

Remember the first month of the season when Butler couldn't hit anything? The whole defense caved into the center, with the exception of whoever was guarding Gordon... He was the only guy to have to stay home because we only had the one perimeter threat... Kaman doesn't count as a perimeter threat because he's our go-to guy. He's going to draw attention in the same way Nowitzky does for Dallas, though not quite as well.

I'm a big UCONN fan and that team is a very poor 3 point shooting team... Despite their tremendous size and incredible athleticism, that team is easy to stop in the half court. Walker and Dyson can blow by their men at will, but there's always a gang in the paint waiting for them.

Again, I suspect we're more in agreement here than opposed...

My point is without Gordon on the perimeter as a threat to hit shots and, now, Sool, it would be much harder for Baron to penetrate. A team that can't hit shots from the perimeter is a very easy team to stop... It takes both. I wasn't taking credit from Baron and giving it to Gordon... I was simply saying, there is a dominoe effect... Baron is able to help Kaman as much as he can, because Gordon and Butler help keep the defense spread making it easier for Baron to penetrate...

How many times have we seen Butler parked in the right corner. Baron drives right and if Butler's defender sags to help, he kicks it to Butler for the open three... If Butler is hitting that shot, that defender has to think twice about how much help he gives. Same thing with anyone guarding Gordon because frequently, weak side guards sag into the middle to pick up penetrators so strong side defenders can stay home to stop the easy kick outs to hot shooters.

Defense in the NBA is all about getting help, trying to disguise where that help is coming from and then rotating quickly to cover for the helpers. The better the outside shooting, the easier it is for everyone.

Remember the first month of the season when Butler couldn't hit anything? The whole defense caved into the center, with the exception of whoever was guarding Gordon... He was the only guy to have to stay home because we only had the one perimeter threat... Kaman doesn't count as a perimeter threat because he's our go-to guy. He's going to draw attention in the same way Nowitzky does for Dallas, though not quite as well.

Sam, most defenses are man to man...man to man. If a mediocre shooter is out behind the 3 pt line, it's obvious the defender will play out on the perimeter. If that man runs through a pick, the man will follow...regardless of who he is guarding...that is the purpose of a man to man defense. See what I am getting at? The only time a defense collapses is when a guy penetrates....or if the ball goes down low to a post threat ( i.e. Kaman), otherwise, they play the man.

But, we are not a good outside shooting team...that is my point. Most teams collapse in the paint to guard kaman before they leave to guard the outside shooter.

I really don't think we agree at all. You say the reason why Kaman gets his is because the defense is worried about our outside shooting. I'm saying the outside shooting has nothing to do with the looks Kaman gets...I'd say the shooter get better looks because they are worried about our bigs. I'm sorry, we don't have consistent guys like that this year to credit them for Kaman's emergence .

You say the reason why Kaman gets his is because the defense is worried about our outside shooting. I'm saying the outside shooting has nothing to do with the looks Kaman gets...

I think Gordon has been used fine by Dunleavy... A lot of people around here thing because he averaged 20 last year after being inserted into the starting lineup, he'd progress to a 25 ppg guy within a year or two... That's a tremendous leap that Gordon may never make. He has some liabilities. He's undersized at the SG and doesn't have the handle or cleverness he would need to get his own shot like a Ben Gordon or an Allen Iverson (in his prime)...

He's young and could possibly develop into a great, all-star calibre player, but if he doesn't he'll still be a tremendous asset to us or any team for a long time... He could end up having a career like Cat Mobley, that of a solid, long time NBA player... A starter on a lot of teams or a top reserve on some others. Nothing wrong with that, if that's what he develops into.

I'm more than happy with his progress so far. If he's going to go any further, it's going to have to come from within him and from off-season work. Dunleavy is not his problem. He has some things he needs to fix and some things he needs to get better at. That said, he still quite a good second-year player as he is.

Bump for those who claimed that Eric Gordon isn't an intregal part of our team winning...

*cough*Kaman costing us win against Celtics*cough*

Bump for those who claimed that Eric Gordon isn't an intregal part of our team winning...

*cough*Kaman costing us win against Celtics*cough*

Not only did Kaman not cost us that game, it's not even a relevant argument to a subject already put to rest by previous posters above.

No one claimed Eric isn't an integral part of the team...not sure how you came to that conclusion.

Some here were claiming Gordon has played a part in Kaman's success...to which I say *cough* BS *cough*.

We lost the game on poor passing. poor execution and were in the game for 3-1/2 quarters...without Gordon. Just saying....

19 shot attempts, only 5 makes........in a game where we lose by 5, how can you say he DIDN'T cost us the game?

C'mon now...

Because there were three missed layups by the Clippers in the last two minutes of the game. I was listening to the radio broadcast and Brian Seimen repeatedly stated how costly those misses were, in addition to the two turnovers by Butler and Baron. Personally, I think you win and lose as a team. Otherwise, there have been multiple games where Kaman helped carry us to victory that you fail to bring up.

Fair enough.

I'm not anti-Kaman, I'm a Clippers' fan through and through.....I just get frustrated when my fav. player EJ only shoots a select amount of times; whether it's his own fault or someone elses'...

I just want to see an agressive Eric Gordon; if and when we see that on a consistent basis I truly believe that we will have an all-star caliber SG and a playoff contender.

Be Gordon wasnt a great ball handler when he came into the league and is still mediocre and AI didnt have that great of a shooting touch.

I think overall EJ needs to be used much more and be averaging 18 shots/game. He shoots a high% and can really spread the D. Between him and Kaman thats a pretty nice inside out threat. I think a few more pick and rolls between Baron and Kaman with more kick-outs to Gordon would do the Clipps good.

19 shot attempts, only 5 makes........in a game where we lose by 5, how can you say he DIDN'T cost us the game?

C'mon now...

Alright boys, now that Dunleavy has officially been axed, it is time to put my theory to the test.

I will be keeping track of EJ's stats for here on out and then compare them with what he has done so far, at the end of the year.

LET'S HOPE I'M RIGHT!!!!!!!!!