The OFFICIAL COMPLAINING/RANTING Thread

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Clipper-Josh
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Forgive me Lord for though I have sinned! I believe in the CLIPPERS as have done so for so many years, but am finally growing weary of what they have done and haven't done while other teams are naturally progressing and digressing through the course of time.

This thread is the OFFICIAL thread to make your excuses, shed your opinions (excuses) of why the CLIPPERS have lost games,

excuses for poor coaching

excuses for player perfomance

excuses for the lack of fan loyalty

and any other excuses you can think of this year's team.

As I have stated in other threads, I personally believe it starts at the top with Donald Sterling and Andy Roesner who clearly have a different agenda as opposed to other NBA teams.

Dumbleave does play a part, but then again has proven his coaching abilities with the Trail Blazers, Bucks, Lakers and even the Clippers.

So he clearly has an idea of what he wants to accomplish.

But how much time can you give him?

How much time does he need?

How many more players does it take to get the team over the hump?

He's just not doing it, and the players are not buying it.

But can anyone else think of an NBA team that has struggled as much as this team has because I can't think of one team that hasn't gone to the Finals, Conference Finals, or has had consecutive years of playoff runs or continued success in the right direction other then the CLIPPERS.

sz123456
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We are cursed

Jay.r
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Dunleavy was fired after one year (right?) coaching the Lakers... When he was gone, the Lakers won the championship the next year.

That's one of the most talented Lakers team and he still didn't win it all.

Dare, I add the implosion of the Blazers against the Lakers? That Blazers team was also VERY talented and very deep.

Clipper-Josh
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and what about the Bucks with Cassell, Ray Allen and there was someone else?

He took them to the Eastern Conference Finals.

But if you are saying that he hasn't succeded with other teams, than how much longer before anyone decides to do anything.

I don't even think it has been expressed through out the Fans at Staple that he has to go.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Jay.r
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Maybe something like this?

Guys, just because we're Clippers fans, we can't just lower our standards and expectations...

Clipper-Josh
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Isn't it amazing how the Knicks have turned things around overnight !!!

Heck, if they can, WHY NOT US !!

ekker3
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Dunleavy already did that for us.

he took us from 27-55 to a shot away from the conference finals.

(besides, look at a few of the teams the knicks have beaten: memphis, heat, wizards, bobcats)

clipper*joe
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The Knicks didn't turn things around overnight. They have been trying to get their act together WITH THE SAME PLAYERS for a few years now. They might have a new coach BUT the players have experience playing with one another.

That isn't overnight.

What one can say is that the new coach was the last piece of the puzzle that made it work cause the other pieces were there waiting. This has been a short season so far, so success for the Knicks is too early to tell but it could happen.

MrHill
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Two things here...Dunleavy left (on his own) after two years with the Lakers, to take an offer he couldn't refuse as coach and GM of the Milwaukee Bucks, a team he spent a good part of his playing career for. His first year as Laker coach, he got them to the Finals, where they lost to the Bulls in six games. The following season was when Magic retired the first time, and the Lakers lost in the first round that year.

The Bucks, led by Sam Cassell, Ray Allen, and Glenn "Big Dog" Robinson, got to the Eastern Finals in '01 under George Karl. Dunleavy was still in Portland at this point (and on his way out by that season's end).

clipshow
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Okay so lets put all the blame on one guy.Lets not blame the ten new players most from different systems they have to adjust to. First lets wait until the end of the year for fire Dunleavy chants please. Look at the roster.Baron Davis has never played with anything other than a mediocre big man, now he has two. Camby on the other hand has never played with a top 5 point guard, neither has Kaman. And both have stated it takes an adjustment to get use to someone who can give you the ball anywhere anytime. Gordon is a rookie.Thornton sees a completely different team than what he saw last year. And Ricky Davis went through a shooting slump.Not to mention these guys hardly played in the pre-season together due to injuries. This is Cambys like what 4th game back? Come on what coach do you know that would be able to make this team gel as fast as you want them too? We are basically looking at an expansion team. 10 new players only 2 that were on the team that went to the playoffs, and you guys are expecting us to go 7-1? I was only hoping that they could hover near 500 the first month. Seems most peole just expected it..

Jay.r
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No one could argue that Gordon's talents are being hindered by Dunleavy... right?

Jay.r
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And its not just this game, I've been sick of him for a LONG time...

elton_sucks42
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Dunleavy was also responsible for hindering Jermaine O'neals talent when he was with portland. As soon as he Dunleavy left JO blew up. Dunleavy is notorious for not playing rooks. Thornton was an exception because of the injury to brand.

Clipper-Josh
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You can find instant chemistry in pick up basketball games.

It's not rocket science.

Don't be fooled by what you see on the court, these guys also practice on the off days TOGETHER!

How long can it possibly take to find out what the other player likes to do?

Especially your starting 5!

Davis is a shooter / distributor

Mobley is camping out on the corners

Thornto is a slasher / shooter

Camby is a mid range shooter (doesn't post)

Kaman is down low in his comfort zone

How hard can it be?

One thing that does hurt is Dumbasses mixing and matching and throwing his philosophy which is not that of the players.

Everyone has one common goal

david
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Couldn't have put it better myself- repped!

ekker3
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Clipper-Josh wrote:
clipshow wrote:
Okay so lets put all the blame on one guy.Lets not blame the ten new players most from different systems they have to adjust to. First lets wait until the end of the year for fire Dunleavy chants please. Look at the roster.Baron Davis has never played with anything other than a mediocre big man, now he has two. Camby on the other hand has never played with a top 5 point guard, neither has Kaman. And both have stated it takes an adjustment to get use to someone who can give you the ball anywhere anytime. Gordon is a rookie.Thornton sees a completely different team than what he saw last year. And Ricky Davis went through a shooting slump.Not to mention these guys hardly played in the pre-season together due to injuries. This is Cambys like what 4th game back? Come on what coach do you know that would be able to make this team gel as fast as you want them too? We are basically looking at an expansion team. 10 new players only 2 that were on the team that went to the playoffs, and you guys are expecting us to go 7-1? I was only hoping that they could hover near 500 the first month. Seems most peole just expected it..

You can find instant chemistry in pick up basketball games.

It's not rocket science.

Don't be fooled by what you see on the court, these guys also practice on the off days TOGETHER!

How long can it possibly take to find out what the other player likes to do?

Especially your starting 5!

Davis is a shooter / distributor

Mobley is camping out on the corners

Thornto is a slasher / shooter

Camby is a mid range shooter (doesn't post)

Kaman is down low in his comfort zone

How hard can it be?

One thing that does hurt is Dumbasses mixing and matching and throwing his philosophy which is not that of the players.

Everyone has one common goal

it hurts when you have the league's worst shooting percentage. otherwise, itd work fine.

we're just not making buckets.

ekker3
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seriously.

the real question is, would you fire dunleavy at the end of last season?

of course not.

Clipper-Josh
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sheeesh if that was the only problem.............last night was so frustrating because we weren't making STOPS!!

clipshow
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Since when do you get paid millions of dollars to produce in a pickup game? Since when were you playing against probably the worlds greatest players? Answer those then maybe I will believe you. And it can take along time for players to get use to each other.Especially since they are coming from different systems. It is extremely difficult. Remember even your starting 5 are learning on the fly. How long are Pre-Season games? Have these guys been around each other a full Pre-Season and training camp getting use to all the new faces? It will take some time just wait. Its technically only been 5 games that these guys have figured there minutes and proper rotations.

clipshow
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Lets stop blaming anyone other than the players on the floor guys. A coach can only do so much. Its more about execution. Did anyone see the play where Ricky Davis was hit on the head by a pass on a fast break? I guess the coach should have told him to catch it? Has anyone noticed that on more than 7 possessions someone has thrown the ball directly to the sidelines? And how about all the balls that wind up in the back court? come on guys, I think you all are giving up faster than the team. These things do take some time and patience. And Gordon is really inconsistent. Dunleavy showed us last year that when his rookie starts understanding the game and using his time on the floor wisely he will let him play. If Dunleavy can not even put the Clipppers in position to go to the playoffs maybe then I will say he needs to go. but unlike the most of you I think its a lot of ball left. And in being a competitor I don't want to give up now.

Clipper-Josh
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What systems did Camby and Davis come from? Run n Gun systems?

Mobley, Thornton, & Kaman have already been here.

As far as the pickup game analogy, professional, average, leauge ball, it doesn't matter.

It doesn't take that long to find that niche or chemistry.

I don't think it's the players, I think it's the coach and his complex style.

So just how much time are you giving these porfessional athletes that have played in multiple styles of offenses and defenses?

Not only has it been 5 games, but don't forget about practice and film, and any other chances to get together and develop a cohesiveness

clipshow
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I ll repeat for you clipper-josh..The last time Camby played on a team with a top 5 point guard? The last time he played with a center that averaged 15ppg and 11reb and 2.5 blocks the year before? That alone is a diffrence maker. What are people saying about Shaq on Phoenix this season? Now that he has adjusted he should do better. So that means Shaq had a season and a half a season to get use to his new teammates. and Camby you are right did come from a run and gun, but what kind of guard was he running with, was he usually the option to run to the post?How many set plays did both teams run? And Mobley, Caveman, and Thornton have been here but isnt this a different system than last year?

EI_Nino_Jesus
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Well this isn't related but Dam they got my order wrong at Micky D's....this IS a complaining thread so ...thought I'd get that off my chest....

Clipper-Josh
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I don't think anybody is saying anything about Shaq because we all know that he is at the end of his rope.

He is definitely not what he use to be and if he is, he shows it in flashes and spurts.

People are not expecting anything of Shaq, they rest him on back to backs, plus not to mention that they have a legitimate and solidified team that is not internally imploding.

Shaq has yet to have a full season with the SUNS. He was their for half of last season including the playoffs. But what they expect of him is alot different than what expect of our CLippers.

Allen Iverson is no chop liver. He may not be in the top5, but definitely in the top 10.

So are you saying that Dumbleavyis instilling another offensive system on top of what he had last year?

Again, I think it is more him than the players, but when there are 5 on the court, they all understand that they have one common goal.

Clipper-Josh
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P.S. How many games are you giving this unit to find each others ways, styles etc ?

ekker3
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on another note, i think we have WAAAAY too many individuals on this team with low FG%.

last year's numbers from our key players:

thornton - 42%

ricky - 43%

baron - 42% (shooting 37% right now btw) - 33% from 3, yet he jacks up 6 attempts a game.

camby - 45% (low for a big man)

cat - 43%

tim - 42%

doesnt surprise me one bit that we're last in the league in PPG and FG%.

other than kaman (who shot a poor 51% for a big man) and novak (48%), we dont have anyone on our roster who shot higher than 45% last year. that's rather troubling.

clipshow
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Iverson is not a pg..And yes that is what Baron has admitted he is adjusting too.A non running team. How is the blame on him if the players are throwing passes at each other on fast breaks?Or throwing the ball out of bounds or in to the back court? Just give him a chance and give it to the players. They do deserve it.

ekker3
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AND ON TOP OF THAT:

if your team has a low FG%, you're gonna need to rebound to stay in games, right? well, we have kaman and camby, no problem?

turns out we're DEAD LAST in the league in Rebound differential. teams are outrebounding us by 8 rebounds a game.

Shocked

people just aren't doing their jobs on the court. dont blame coach.

clipshow
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Good job ekker. That's what I am saying right now. The players on the court need to do their job first. I'll admit I was a little weary of some things dunleavy called last night.Such as not putting Kaman back in down by 3 with 1:52 left in the game. But after watching the replay Kaman did nothing to show he should be in the game. He was horrible on the defensive end. And I am giving these guys a year. Firing a coach with his team 1-7 is not going to make you suddenly go to the playoffs. Lets just hope our players can turn it around.

Clipper-Josh
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I applaud your paitience

Lebron2clips2010
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Clipper Josh Clipshow is 100% correct, I mean let's look at this historically.

When Steve Nash went to Phoenix it took him a long time to adjust....oh wait nevermind. Well when the Celtics changed their entire roster they had a lot of growing pains at the beginning of the seasn...oh wait no again. Surely changing coaches isn't the answer think of when Nelly left the Mavs Avery Johnson did terrible...oh wait no that didn't happen either. I love the clippers as much as anyone I watch every game to the oh so bitter end.

The Clips just don't have their mojo, something needs to change. When I posted my original thoughts on this team everyone nay sayed me and everything I've said is true. Inconsistant post play, a poor FG%, and too much credence to "veteran" leadership. Dunleavy is ALWAYS LATE ON ROTATIONS.

I think Dunleavy should worry about defense with the team, run a few plays and dead ball plays and otherwise let the offense do its thing. The whole chemistry takes time against the world's best is negated by the fact that these players are part of the best in the world as well. Making it all relative. Gordon needs more minutes, as does Skinner against those smaller PF's like Paul Millsap that have torched the clips. A sturdy 8-9 man rotation would let everyone know their role much better and allow growth within that role.

Either we say the coaching is off, or we admit that our team just isn't that good. I say that because truly legit players who have been thrown into a new role have historically done well. so which is it are the coaches f'ing up or are we just not a team thats good enough to compete?

Clipper-Josh
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THE COACH

WELL SAID GROVER

clipshow
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Lebron..You're bringing up 1 pr two players not ten. Ten players is a alot to adjust 2.Phoenix did not revamp there whole roster for Nash.And he was around the whole pre-Season and training camp.The big three same thing. And that team was basically built on defense which won them the championship. I see you do not have the J Kidd trade down here.Or the Shaq trade?How about the Iverson trade to Denver where Denver actually dropped after obtaining him? Like I said earlier 10 people is a lot harder than 1. A whole different set of rotations. And how about the coaching change in Chi town last year, or even the Milwaukee debacle? Maybe Alvin Gentry being fired mid-season ring a bell? Don't say historically if there are just enough to counteract your post. And it's the players on the court. I am 100% right at least we agree on something. lol

clipshow
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One more team for you the 2004 L.A Lakers adding Karl Malone and Gary Payton in the off-season.After game 1 of the Finals numerous players from the championship team said they understood the play calling better also had better chemistry.Wanted two for sure future hall of famers to ride the pine.

elton_sucks42
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Yeah but that 2004 laker team was never 6 games below .500 to start the season

clipshow
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They were never I agree with you.But when things got rough what where the veteran Lakers saying? Play us because they do not have the chemistry we have. So chemistry could hurt when things are not going well. That was the point I was making.There is no real chemistry.And things are not going well.Wait a little winning some game should pick things up.

P.S

I forgot how well is our buddy Brand doing over there in Philadelphia.Lets also not forget that this was just the first game against a team that did not make the playoffs last year.There is a lot of season left.Lets at least wait until December before you guys get pissed please.

toohipcliptoslip
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My gipe is the second half fizzle. We come out like a house on fire and then somebody pours water on our match. The energy and agression aren't there. Again I don't expect them to win but I've not seen the passion in the second half. Maybe they are tired and out of shape but that's when it hits the fan. Why does a team have a 22-0 run? Crash the boards and pull a Magettee. You may get a charge but it's better than jumpers from the periphery. Get FT's Put in every shooter you have, not just Tim. Nothing will break your spirit like that.This is a problem with motivation (coaching). If he'd blown out a game seasoning Gordon of Tayor or shooting Ricky out a slump, OK

clipshow
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The second half fizzle? The Clips have found a different way to lose each game.And the Lakers have gone on a few big runs.The Clips ae not the only one's.the energy if leaving is when teams start to make the run.And Baron has been driving and forcing his way to the hole. So has Camby.But motivation does not come from a coach.Whenever you play a sport you should have motive to be the best.The guys have no chemistry and no communication.Thats the coaches fault? Thats built through these guys going through tough times together. When things fall apart someone on the court puts things into perspective. All the coach can do is put the right group of people on the floor who are going to do something.And look at the last couple of games. The run against Houston, the actual comeback against Dallas, then the near comeback against the Kings. They came back from being down by 10 to 2.Dunleavy did exactly what you just said.Ricky Davis, Mobley, Baron Davis, and Tim Thomas were on the floor.So what about shooters? And I know everyone keeps saying that he is keeping Gordon and Taylor down, but does anybody know who got a lot of minutes last year as a rookie.Why did that rookie get a lot of minutes? Because he earned it, on the court, off the court, and in practice.He was always trying to improve his game. Just because he is a rookie and you want them to play does not mean he should.And you want the team with the third worst free throw percentage to go to the line? Wow. Maybe since everyone just says lets get rid of Dunleavy we should.We will finish the season the exact same way we did when we fired Gentry.Not doing anything, nor going anywhere.

MrB
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Thank you MR.Hill for setting the record straight on this aspect of recalling what actually happened.

journeyman
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clipper*joe wrote:
Clipper-Josh wrote:
Isn't it amazing how the Knicks have turned things around overnight !!!

Heck, if they can, WHY NOT US !!

The Knicks didn't turn things around overnight. They have been trying to get their act together WITH THE SAME PLAYERS for a few years now. They might have a new coach BUT the players have experience playing with one another.

That isn't overnight.

What one can say is that the new coach was the last piece of the puzzle that made it work cause the other pieces were there waiting. This has been a short season so far, so success for the Knicks is too early to tell but it could happen.

Good point, CJ. It's amazing how fast people forget the past, they only want immediate results. Probably the same folks who wanted (still want?) to bring in Starbury.

MrB
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journeyman wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
Clipper-Josh wrote:
Isn't it amazing how the Knicks have turned things around overnight !!!

Heck, if they can, WHY NOT US !!

The Knicks didn't turn things around overnight. They have been trying to get their act together WITH THE SAME PLAYERS for a few years now. They might have a new coach BUT the players have experience playing with one another.

That isn't overnight.

What one can say is that the new coach was the last piece of the puzzle that made it work cause the other pieces were there waiting. This has been a short season so far, so success for the Knicks is too early to tell but it could happen.

Good point, CJ. It's amazing how fast people forget the past, they only want immediate results. Probably the same folks who wanted (still want?) to bring in Starbury.

Thats how our society is nowadays. Results now. There is a quick fix to any problem.

jarca
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obviously this seson has been a waste so far. so talented yet so umotivated and lost sometimes

Dunleavy- hasnt adjust his playbook according to his player. still running the same play as if he has brand down low.

Camby- We all thought him and kaman would compliment each other but they dont. camby doesnt have a back to the basket move. we shouldnt pay 13 mil to a back up center

kaman- all potential but no success so far. it's what his 5th year yet we're still talking about potential

jarca
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p.s. when there was a rumor that detroit offered wallace and rip for kaman/gordon/thomas, i was praying it would come thru... but now detroit has AI and NO TEAM will offer as close of a talent to us for our guys

TheCalmInsanity
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Camby is not a back up center, first of all, second of all it's 9 million a year, almost 10 milllion. But not 13. And no- Dunleavy hasn't been running plays for down low. It seems like the players don't want to run plays, and they're all having 1 on 1 contests. It's more of the players' fault... They can't run offenses, they can't score, and most of all, THEY CAN'T PLAY DEFENSE. That's not Dunleavy's fault. If anything is Dunleavy's fault it's the conditioning they're getting.

Icecoldclipper
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rasheed hates md though

clipper*joe
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Who is the first to go? Maybe this thread? These threads are just getting redundant, don't you think? Take Camby out of the equation and it just becomes another Dunleavy thread. OYE VEY!

jarca
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what r u talking about. the clippers offense consist of getting a man to the post which takes up 15 seconds to do and then have their outside shooter bail them out when the clock is running out

jarca
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ummm kaman is on it too 8)

clipper*joe
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jarca wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
Who is the first to go? Maybe this thread? These threads are just getting redundant, don't you think? Take Camby out of the equation and it just becomes another Dunleavy thread. OYE VEY!

ummm kaman is on it too 8)

Wasn't when I wrote the post. Either way, why don't we just let everyone go and maybe we can start from scratch. That way, we can start some more threads like this after 6 games and see who else we want to get rid of. roll

TheCalmInsanity
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jarca wrote:
TheCalmInsanity wrote:
Camby is not a back up center, first of all, second of all it's 9 million a year, almost 10 milllion. But not 13. And no- Dunleavy hasn't been running plays for down low. It seems like the players don't want to run plays, and they're all having 1 on 1 contests. It's more of the players' fault... They can't run offenses, they can't score, and most of all, THEY CAN'T PLAY DEFENSE. That's not Dunleavy's fault. If anything is Dunleavy's fault it's the conditioning they're getting.

what r u talking about. the clippers offense consist of getting a man to the post which takes up 15 seconds to do and then have their outside shooter bail them out when the clock is running out

All I've been seeing is isolations starting at mid range, and ill advised 3's. I wish there was more post play because that is how you find the open man, with some ball movement afterwards.

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