Honest Question: Do you think the league is fixed?

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Do you think the league is fixed?
Yes
50%
 50%  [5]
No
50%
 50%  [5]
Total Votes : 10

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NUMB3RFIFTY
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All of our losses this season can be attributed to legitimate reasons.

I repeat, this is not an excuse thread.

And in large part, our history has been a product of our own right/wrongdoings. (Ex: Daniel Ewing, Korolev, Livingstons Knee)

But you can't help but think it's fixed sometimes. Games with lop-sided calls, the suspicious "closed doors" nature of the draft lottery.

It's difficult to say that actual games are fixed (on an individual level), because to ever argue that games were fixed AGAINST the Clippers, you would have to admit the possibility that some games were fixed FOR the Clippers.

What do you guys think? League fixed? Not Fixed? Has it affected the Clippers?

G-Man04
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 138
votes: 7

You're asking if the ENTIRE NBA is fixed? By who?

David Stern?

The owners?

The Mafia?

Las Vegas?

The officials?

Are you kidding? Fixed.....the entire league? Do you have any idea how many people would have to be involved to fix an entire league? 2460 games. I will conceed there has been an official or two on the take (and maybe more, who knows) and a ton of bad calls but the idea that an orginization as big as the NBA being fixed is absolutely ridiculous!

Ummmm......I would have to say NO!

clipps04
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 3351
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Why would everybody have to be in on it? Really only requires stern and a dew others to make it happen seeing as Stern is NBA's "god" so to speak. You saw how well those ref's did by fixing games and they got away with it for a while. And they were just ref's.

Though the NBA never really felt right if you know what I mean. Something fishy always feels like its going on. And it's always linked to Stern or ref's, etc.

clipps04
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Besides the owners and the officials, all the other names are very powerful people/groups. You telling me Vegas alone couldn't take control of the NBA?

G-Man04
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 138
votes: 7

That's exactly what I'm telling you........this whole thread is ridiculous!

mike42
Clipper Starter
Posts: 377

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it is not ridiculous.

how does gasol get to la for nothing?

clipper*joe
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Location: los angeles
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votes: 129

Disclaimer: I don't believe in conspiracy theories.

mike42
Clipper Starter
Posts: 377

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guys look at the betting lines.

there are a few sites where they show the % of which way rhe money is going.

example:

Celtics +9 81%

Clippers -9 19%

81% of the $ is going bostons way.

almost always (i should say the majority of the time)

when the money is so lopsided, (especially on high profile games) (ok, Clips & Celts is not a high profile game)

the other side wins, vegas wins, the books win etc.

its not just the nba, nfl and ncaa too

NUMB3RFIFTY
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1624

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The scheme doesn't have to be that ellaborate.

You and i both know Stern just needs to make one phone call to make stuff happen.

If he wanted the Bucks to win this season, he would have been on the phone and got lebron traded there for a conditional second round pick and a snickers bar.

mike42
Clipper Starter
Posts: 377

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votes: 3

today:

The Vols +2 16%

game cocks -2 84%

score 86 -70 tenn.

it just happens.

G-Man04
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 138
votes: 7

Gasol went to the Lakers the same way Camby came to the Clippers - through an organization desperate to clear cap space and willing to "dump" a big contract. The Knicks gave us Z-bo for a player (Mobley) who it was determined was unable to even play due to medical reasons. Why? Simple...money!

As for Stern......no, he doesn't just make a phone call and things happen. Certainly not "things" like that. If he called the Cavs and told them to trade Lebron to the Bucks they would laugh and hang up on him. Wouldn't happen....ever! No commissioner has that kind of power. Yeah, there are bad trades and questionable calls that raise eyebrows. Sure, you have an occasional scandal like with Donaghy and, who knows, there may be more of them. Also, occasionally a team like the Clippers beats the Celtics. Who knew?

I'm not saying that some games could never be fixed. It's one thing to alter point spreads of a few games so a team covers or doesn't cover to make a little money. But to actually determine the outcome of over 2400 games to a predetermined end result is laughable and, yes, there would need to be a lot of people involved just by the sheer number of games. If you got it down to two teams in a close series and he wanted to sway it one way or the other through tighter officiating or whatever - I could see that as possible, although highly unlikely.

It would make a great movie though............

dwb
Clipper Starter
Posts: 705
Location: Tallahassee
votes: 28

Honest answer: No.

journeyman
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 3835
Location: Los Angeles
votes: 40

Aside from Tim Donaghy (who single-handily cost us a game against the Rockets once during our 40-42 season), organizations tend to make their own luck. The Nets made the finals in consecutive years. The league wasn't helping them out (I don't think).

clipshow
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1593
Location: L.A
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votes: 10

I don't think it is. But it could be. There are people who believe the Draft was fixed for certain players to go to certain teams.(Lebron=Cleavland, Ewing= New York) And there were some who questioned the sagging ratings then a revival of one of the leagues longest running rivalries. ???

dwb
Clipper Starter
Posts: 705
Location: Tallahassee
votes: 28

If the league were fixed, do you really think that the NBA would've allowed their flagship team, which is unquestionably the New York Knicks, being as New York is the most recognizable and marketable city in the freaking world, (at least to this point) to languish in the throes of the incompetence it has for the last... what? how long has it been since the Knicks have been any factor at all in the grand scheme of things as far as NBA championships are concerned? Think about it. Wouldn't the league have made more money if, instead of Boston or even LA winning all those titles, New York had? Of course it would've! You think Boston rivals in ANY way the marketing power of New York City? Even the Lakers in Los Angeles don't have that kind of juice. If the league had supposedly fixed it so that Ewing ended up there... why not anyone else in the past twenty-four years? 24 years! New York sure could've used LeBron, or Duncan or hell, SOMEBODY during that time! If they're fixing stuff they ain't doin' it very well! Consider... who were the "surest things" since Ewing in a yearly draft that is all about taking chances? And it IS about taking chances because for every Ewing there's an Olowokandi, and for every Duncan there's a Kwame Brown. For my money the surest things in the last quarter century have been LeBron, to some degree Yao (whether immediately great or no his pull with the NYC asian population would've been huge and there's always the world marketing thing), and of course Shaq. Funny how in a "fixed" league, none of them ended up on the team that the league offices would've undoubtedly loved to see them on the most. If you want proof that the league is NOT fixed, you need look no further than the recent debacle that has been the New York Knicks. A couple of punk refs does NOT mean that the league is fixed. It means that it is populated by humans.

G-Man04
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 138
votes: 7

Great post DWB. Couldn't have said it better myself..........

clipperstown
CTB MVP X3
Posts: 11297
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its is fixed cause lebron is gonna end up in NY along with d wade

clipshow
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You made great points. But just playing on the other side of the fence here, the whole point of any business is to expand, right? Why would the N.B.A continue to have the same markets over and over you would want to expand and reach different markets.As in Chicago(not saying Jordan is not the G.O.A.T i think he is) it was not a media market for basketball until 86. Now it has fallen below the radar but the more balanced and competitive your league is the better right? So why not put good/great players in weird places to turn that into your sports market? It's the way it goes. And while New York has been down you have seen the experiment of other teams trying to compete. Does not have the same appeal as the 90's. Now I know I don't believe any of what I wrote, just saying with today's world and sports we never truly know whats going on. Look at baseball.The Patriots winning the Super Bowl after 9/11.

FightOnRon
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Well I do not think it's fixed, per se. If this was a fake sport I seriously doubt players would be making millions of dollars a year to play a fake sport, and that betting would be so rampant. Is there betting on "proffesionl wrestling" in Vegas? I do think some teams however get benefits that others don't get and of course one of those others being our Clippers. My seats are in the 200 sections so I can't see 100% perfectly but I won tickets to a game this year where I was only 6 rows back.....

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G-Man04
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 138
votes: 7

I think there might be something to that - although I think it is more an individual advantage than it is a team thing. While Lebron is getting the benefit of every call, I doubt if Wally is getting those same calls.

I think the officiating as a whole over the last 10-12 years has really hurt the game. The officials "assume" contact on plays even when there is none and call fouls. That's why sometimes I enjoy watching college games more than the NBA because the officials allow the players to be physical and play with aggressiveness. Ever notice how many times in an NBA game the official who blows his whistle is usually the one with the worst angle and furthest from the play? They call WAY too many fouls and games often turn into free throw contests. I pay good money to see the greatest players make great plays - not shoot free throws. Next time Kobe, Lebron or Wade hit for 50pts check and see how many free throws they shot.

There is no flow to the game and it minimizes the end-to-end action and, in many cases, neutralizes the athleticism of many of the players. And, because of how tight the games are called, you have every player crying for a foul on every single play.

Sorry, a little off topic but I needed to get that off my chest. I feel better now........

clippersblue
Clipper Starter
Posts: 329
votes: 5

I need this made clear: in 2006-2007 clippers season, i was at every home game, up close in the 200s. I saw countless games officiated away from the clippers. I even counted one game. Up until the beginning of the fourth quarter, when we were down by 20, the gave the other team 4 calls for are 1. By the fourth quarter, when it was clear we were going to lose, they started giving make up calls, so in the morning, in the paper, you can look at the amount of calls and it might be near even. However, when one team gets all the calls in the first three quarters, that helps them cruise through the fourth.

I also read a book about the best 50 players in the league, someone who actually ranks Shaq as a better player than Jordan. He said that Jordan left the league in 1993 for some questionable betting and that David Stern hushed hushed it and it wasn't because he wanted to play baseball.

The league lost a ton of revenue, so when Jordan came back, every call in the world went to him, he was the face of the league and the reffs favored him.

The draft is rigged too. And, by the way, why hasn't New York gotten better. Its because they spent their money in the wrong way, and they did get Eweing when they shouldn't of, so Stern is very careful to give the number one pick to them.

Some say, how did Duncan land in San Antonio when he should have been in Boston: Maybe the ownership in Boston pissed Stern off. Don't say the league isn't rigged, it is, but not blantly, slyly rigged.

clippersblue
Clipper Starter
Posts: 329
votes: 5

I need this made clear: in 2006-2007 clippers season, i was at every home game, up close in the 200s. I saw countless games officiated away from the clippers. I even counted one game. Up until the beginning of the fourth quarter, when we were down by 20, the gave the other team 4 calls for are 1. By the fourth quarter, when it was clear we were going to lose, they started giving make up calls, so in the morning, in the paper, you can look at the amount of calls and it might be near even. However, when one team gets all the calls in the first three quarters, that helps them cruise through the fourth.

I also read a book about the best 50 players in the league, someone who actually ranks Shaq as a better player than Jordan. He said that Jordan left the league in 1993 for some questionable betting and that David Stern hushed hushed it and it wasn't because he wanted to play baseball.

The league lost a ton of revenue, so when Jordan came back, every call in the world went to him, he was the face of the league and the reffs favored him.

The draft is rigged too. And, by the way, why hasn't New York gotten better. Its because they spent their money in the wrong way, and they did get Eweing when they shouldn't of, so Stern is very careful to give the number one pick to them.

Some say, how did Duncan land in San Antonio when he should have been in Boston: Maybe the ownership in Boston pissed Stern off. Don't say the league isn't rigged, it is, but not blantly, slyly rigged.

clippersblue
Clipper Starter
Posts: 329
votes: 5

I need this made clear: in 2006-2007 clippers season, i was at every home game, up close in the 200s. I saw countless games officiated away from the clippers. I even counted one game. Up until the beginning of the fourth quarter, when we were down by 20, the gave the other team 4 calls for are 1. By the fourth quarter, when it was clear we were going to lose, they started giving make up calls, so in the morning, in the paper, you can look at the amount of calls and it might be near even. However, when one team gets all the calls in the first three quarters, that helps them cruise through the fourth.

I also read a book about the best 50 players in the league, someone who actually ranks Shaq as a better player than Jordan. He said that Jordan left the league in 1993 for some questionable betting and that David Stern hushed hushed it and it wasn't because he wanted to play baseball.

The league lost a ton of revenue, so when Jordan came back, every call in the world went to him, he was the face of the league and the reffs favored him.

The draft is rigged too. And, by the way, why hasn't New York gotten better. Its because they spent their money in the wrong way, and they did get Eweing when they shouldn't of, so Stern is very careful to give the number one pick to them.

Some say, how did Duncan land in San Antonio when he should have been in Boston: Maybe the ownership in Boston pissed Stern off. Don't say the league isn't rigged, it is, but not blantly, slyly rigged.

clipperstown
CTB MVP X3
Posts: 11297
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^^^^^y did u post this like 3 times???? we all know that the NBA is rigged against the clippers. and whoever stern just feels like liking that season, he'll give them the ring. its as simple as that. im sure the clipps could easily bribe stern to a championship. sterling has to realize that this will help his team in the long term. sure he'll loose money by paying stern, but staples will be full every night @ clipper games, which will make him more profit than he has ever made.

spontane
Clipper Starter
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dwb read a few post that you made usually you are usually on point. One sentence "the kings vs. the lakers games seven in sacramento, donaghy....", period. The older I get the more news leaks and the more I realize that the NBA is rigged. The fbi has proven it in the court of law....has is stopped?? Well...um...crab dribble?? Please if you sneeze on players now a days most of the time it results in ejections. What ever happened to a live lottery draft...? What does stern do to establish the victor in the lottery??? Can you really see him dipping his hand in some vacumed bucket?? Or does he pick who ever he thinks really needs the pick or the team with the biggest need, $$$$???? The reason I love the clippers is because I love sports and basketball. I love the underdog, but how long can my love go on knowing that realities like these are happening....now.

dwb
Clipper Starter
Posts: 705
Location: Tallahassee
votes: 28

Ok. I will buy that certain officials are better than others. I will go along with the idea that high profile players get calls that rookies or lesser players don't get. Again, the refs are HUMAN, and not only do they make mistakes (though certainly they make relatively few when you look at the product as a whole), they also have their own "filters" that they view the games through. This would include favorite coaches, teams and players which will shade their calls at times. Not hugely, as they ARE reviewed and graded regularly, but it's a fact of life. I in NO WAY buy the idea that ANY amount of money from an owner to David Stern gets you a championship! That's ludicrous, and makes mockery of the efforts of legions of players that have busted their asses on the court trying to win. Try selling that concept to Bird and see what his reaction is. Or Jordon, or Magic. Barkley would probably throw you through a plate glass window! Men regularly spend their whole lives in the game between playing and coaching in the pursuit of a ring. Others play through injury and risk permanent damage or at best an old age filled with pain. All for the opportunity to call themselves champions, even once. Do you really think they would bother if it was as mundane a process as which freaking owner paid off the commissioner?

clipshow
Clipper All-Star
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Last thing and then I'll finish before people think i am serious. But when you say athletes that get paid millions. The Rock(WWE) made millions and look at him. And Kurt Angle was an actual Olympic Wrestler. But the league is not fixed. I just believe it. No way I can prove it, but I was just trying to make it so people did not try and attack fifty for thinking outside the box. Because truthfully how do we know Donaghy was not really told by Stern how to officiate? We do not know but we believe it's not.

G-Man04
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 138
votes: 7

Well said, DWB........

sz123456
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 2356
votes: 13

To an extent the league is absolutely fixed. I remember watching that Kings-Lakers series in 2002 and thinking "No one in the world can convince me that this series was not fixed", that's why I'm glad that Donaghy came out and said that the league arranged that Lakers victory.

Also I'll never forget games at the Sports Arena where the refs literally would not let Michael Jordan's Bulls lose to us, it was like the Bulls were allowed to play by football rules. Certain teams and players will always be given the benefit of the doubt against no-name teams.

However it has had no effect on our season. The players and coach are to blame. More often than not, the best team wins, so we don't have room to complain.

sz123456
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 2356
votes: 13

Also, no one can convince me that the Miami Heat's championship in 2006 was not tainted, I was laughing after every call Dwyane Wade got. Didn't he get like 100 free throws or something in 6 games? That's blatant cheating.

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