Session to clipps dead?

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Clipperworldchamps2011
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After the Clippers acquired Sebastian Telfair on Monday, the Knicks appear the only serious team left for Sessions. The Clips now have three point guards -- Baron Davis, Telfair and Garden folk hero Mike Taylor -- and league sources can't imagine owner Donald Sterling meeting Sessions' demands. New York Post

it makes sense after acquiring telfair, unless we trade him or dunleavy really haves his way and trade's baron gets sessions, concluding us winning a combo of 80 games in the next 3 years and becoming the "YOUNG" clipps once again....

ohhhh how about we wait till next season and who ever gets the number 1 pick(john wall) we trade baron for!!!!!

goood golly jee gumdrops!!!!! a bunch of rookies and 2nd/3rd year guys alll on one team!!!!! winning an estimated 15 games a season!!!

dream come true for some of you!!

No too jesus, oops i mean sessions roll

any real hardcore clipp fans here that actually go to the games?? Sad

Trinidad
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Yea that telfair move was a backup plan in case sessions becomes too high of a demand which seems the case.

The only way sessions happens is if the clippers cut taylor and move telfair to 3rd string, but that would be 20 mil + for the pgs, so not likely

Trade telfair in a sign and trade for sessions but then why would the bucks want telfair when they already have jennings and ridnour?

Trade Baron, not likely it would make dunleavy look like a failure and his ego is too big for that...he already conceited zach this summer.

The more time passes the less likely it seems we have a shot at sessions, too bad cause hes a baller and would be a huge asset to the clips.

Clipperworldchamps2011
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i dont how much of a baller he is,,,1st baron is 30x better 2nd not worth the amount he's asking for 3rd a disaster for season ticket fans

clipperboy24
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i still think sessions migt be had for a s&t involving telfair

elton_sucks42
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I don't think this deal is dead. We can always cut taylor. Sessions would be an excellent backup. If you think having him on our team would not be beneficial to this team, you must be crazy.

Portland is able to win and make the playoffs why can't we? The talent is there and with acquiring sessions it makes us deeper and 1 and 2 spot.

Also, I don't see why ticket holders would be upset if we acquire him.

clipper*joe
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From what I have read on another site, Sessions has the Gilbert Arenas rule, Early bird rights, & the Base year compensation that really favor the Bucks.

Thanks to Steve P.:

Quote:
Early Bird - Teams have certain rights to go above the salary cap to re-sign their own free agents. A player who has been on his contract without being waived in the last three years can be paid any amount up to the maximum by the team that holds his 'Bird' rights. The 'Early Bird' provision is similar, but applies to players like Sessions who have been with their team for two years. The Bucks can pay him up to the average player salary (or 175% of his prior salary). The average player salary is the same thing as the Mid Level Exception. But since the Bucks are over the salary cap, they cannot re-sign him for more than the average player salary.

Quote:

Gilbert Arenas Rule - When Arenas left the Warriors for the Wizards a few years back, he was a second round draft pick entering his his third season in the NBA, just like Sessions. The Bird and Early Bird provisions were put in place to help ensure that teams who WANTED to keep their stars could do so, regardless of the salary cap. But because Arenas was an Early Bird FA, the Warriors were limited in what they could pay him. The Wizards were under the cap, and could offer whatever they wanted. They made an offer that the Warriors literally were not allowed to match, even though Arenas was ostensibly a restricted free agent. In the wake of the Arenas situation, a provision was added to the CBA stipulating that a player with fewer than three years in the league can NOT be offered more than the MLE. This is to ensure that the original team can indeed retain the player, using either the Early Bird Exception or the Mid Level Exception.

Quote:

Base Year Compensation - To keep teams from shenanigans in which they sign a player for much more than he's worth in order to include him in a trade solely for salary matching purposes, the CBA includes what it calls Base Year Compensation provisions. This is super-duper complex, moreso than either of the earlier items, but in short, if a player gets a BIG raise (Devin Harris is one recent example, Sessions will certainly fall into this category), his salary for trade purposes is NOT his actual salary, but rather something less (usually 50% of his new salary). This one is particularly nasty because the trade has to work in both directions (sending and receiving team) but the salary is different for the BYC player in each case. This is why it is so difficult to trade BYC players, and usually such trades involve a lot of players and maybe even a third team (under the cap) to facilitate.

illastrate
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Yea that telfair move was a backup plan in case sessions becomes too high of a demand which seems the case. The only way sessions happens is if the clippers cut taylor and move telfair to 3rd string, but that would be 20 mil + for the pgs, so not likely Trade telfair in a sign and trade for sessions but then why would the bucks want telfair when they already have jennings and ridnour? Trade Baron, not likely it would make dunleavy look like a failure and his ego is too big for that...he already conceited zach this summer. The more time passes....

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clipnasty
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ClipsWorldChamps chill with the negativity. You are always bitching a ridiculous amount, why dont you be happy with what we got an see if it works instead of being such a Debbie Downer

sunnydrew3
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Tweet from some media guy via hoopsworld:

Alan Hanh: Hearing the Clips are still in the Sessions competition despite acquiring Telfair. Apparently, they're already looking to trade Sebastian.

Pretty interesting that we are trying to deal the guy already and I like hearing we are still in the running for Ramon

clipper*joe
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I'm loving this...that is, if this is true.

SamMays
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Dunleavy wants Sessions very badly... In large part because of the way Baron played last year and the effort he put out... He doesn't trust Baron and wants a pass-first PG with this team, the best one he can get and Sessions is very good... If Sessions comes in, he won't be a backup. He'll be part of a 3-guard rotation and will play plenty of minutes. It will put heat on Baron to play hard or lose his starting job. And remember, when Sessions is on the floor, Baron can play the 2 while Gordon rests.

And I know your broken record argument 2011... Baron is great, it's Dunleavy's fault he sucked last year... Well, the reality is, Dunleavy is in charge. Baron didn't hustle for him and Dunleavy doesn't trust him and wants a plan B that is good enough to turn into a plan A in the event Baron is hurt or doesn't play hard... Both very realistic possibilities. He's not going to be held hostage by Baron's moods again.

Telfair is just insurance in case none of this goes through... He's better than Taylor and is a lower-quality player, but one who plays a similar style of game to Sessions. Telfair has no impact on the pursuit of Sessions. If Sessions is landed, Telfair could be shipped off in a Dunleavy minute... We've seen how quickly Dunleavy can move players.

If Sessions happens, 2011, you'll still have your super-star Baron in the starting lineup, so what are you so worried about?

Trinidad
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I sort of hoped the trade was made to make another trade, but I dont see how we can convince the bucks to trade sessions and take telfair? Other than saving some some money I don't see an incentive for the bucks to downgrade.

SamMays
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Telfair, at 2.7 million should be easily moved... Not necessarily to the Bucks.

What I've read is that to get Sessions, we might have to take a bad contract from the Bucks, who are all about cost cutting...

MrB
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^ I've heard the same thing. The Bucks wanna cut costs and don't wanna get into the Luxury tax. They are looking to dump Bowen from what i've heard.

Hooch20
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Bowen has a $4 million contract. If he's bought out in August they only have to pay him $2 million. The Bucks could tell us that if we trade our TPE for Bowen that they won't match an offer sheet. We then either keep Bowen as a roll player or we cut him and only have to pay him $2 million.

SamMays
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Bowen would actually be very good here... Great defender with something still in the tank... Plays the 2 and 3 and hits the open jumper... I wouldn't mind him... Anything but Gadzuric.

Clipperworldchamps2011
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Yea that telfair move was a backup plan in case sessions becomes too high of a demand which seems the case. The only way sessions happens is if the clippers cut taylor and move telfair to 3rd string, but that would be 20 mil + for the pgs, so not likely Trade telfair in a sign and trade for sessions but then why would the bucks want telfair when they already have jennings and ridnour? Trade Baron, not likely it would make dunleavy look like a failure and his ego is too big for that...he already conceited zach this summer. The more time passes....

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Clipperworldchamps2011
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dont get it wrong ,,,as a back up for baron for a trade with telfair no problem but for the amount he's asking hellllllll no!

you remember the game we had with portland....baron vs b,roy.....blazers play an exciting style of basketball that baron picked up during the game....

portland is a WELL COACHED team...and a clear indication how much coaching means

Clipperworldchamps2011
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Baron avgs more assist than sessions, sessions is a HIGH SHOOTING PERCENTAGE scoring pg, putting up big numbers,..likes to shoot and score more than he passes...which is why dunleavy cant wait to call ISO PLAYS FOR HIM cause unlike baron he likes one on one

everything u wrote there is completely upside down and totally contradicts from the truth

dont get me wrong wouldnt mind having him, i mean there was a 6 month strecth where baron and the starters played 38 mins a game with dunleavy not trusting taylor, jordon, and novak at the time.....

good lord have mercy

rick0314
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untill i see the clips introduce them in a conference then they are official, i have said it before, if Telfair were to stay he would have been introudeced in a media conference meeting but hasnt

Clipperworldchamps2011
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true that...

mj_shoefanatic
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*raising hand* Twisted Evil

david
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Glad to hear that we're still in the hunt. Sessions is a solid shooter and passer- exactly what we need from the position. Good rebounder too for a PG. Too bad he doesn't shoot the 3 too well- yet.

Clipper-Josh
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I guess it's because tired Clipper fans don't settle for less when better is out there.

In his defense, I to am critical and pessimistic about the Clipper transactions that have occured over the past 3 years and how could you not be negative when the records and direction speaks for themselves.

While I do share everyone's positivity and enjoyment about Blake Griffin,

I am somewhat satisfied with what we have as a roster with the exception of Ricki Davis.

Sessions just adds the icing on the cake.

Remember, you can't make a masterpeice unless you have the right ingredients. All we need is that backup PG position should something arise.

Like all, we are just tired of losing, but for every optimistic fan there is out there, there is always equal balance in being a pessismist.

When WE start winning, then we'll stop B I T C H I N G !!!!!

Go Clips

Clipper-Josh
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I thought Bowen was going to be released by Milwaukee and the he was going to go back to the Spurs.

That is the rumor I intially heard when he was traded.

clipperstown
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Clipper-Josh wrote:
SamMays wrote:
Bowen would actually be very good here... Great defender with something still in the tank... Plays the 2 and 3 and hits the open jumper... I wouldn't mind him... Anything but Gadzuric.

I thought Bowen was going to be released by Milwaukee and the he was going to go back to the Spurs.

That is the rumor I intially heard when he was traded.

yes i heard the very same rumor

Rockford
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This sucks if this is true.

BobbyDigital
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Guys, never believe what the NY Post writes, ESPECIALLY if it's something with a Knicks agenda.

They have a tendency to report "rumors" driven by wishful thinking. Seen it a million times before, in every sport.

MrB
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They aren't going to release Bowen until August, from what I heard. I also heard they are trying to dump Malik Allen and are looking to get rid of other players to cut salary.

clipperboy24
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Clipperworldchamps2011 wrote:
SamMays wrote:
Dunleavy wants Sessions very badly... In large part because of the way Baron played last year and the effort he put out... He doesn't trust Baron and wants a pass-first PG with this team, the best one he can get and Sessions is very good... If Sessions comes in, he won't be a backup. He'll be part of a 3-guard rotation and will play plenty of minutes. It will put heat on Baron to play hard or lose his starting job. And remember, when Sessions is on the floor, Baron can play the 2 while Gordon rests.

And I know your broken record argument 2011... Baron is great, it's Dunleavy's fault he sucked last year... Well, the reality is, Dunleavy is in charge. Baron didn't hustle for him and Dunleavy doesn't trust him and wants a plan B that is good enough to turn into a plan A in the event Baron is hurt or doesn't play hard... Both very realistic possibilities. He's not going to be held hostage by Baron's moods again.

Telfair is just insurance in case none of this goes through... He's better than Taylor and is a lower-quality player, but one who plays a similar style of game to Sessions. Telfair has no impact on the pursuit of Sessions. If Sessions is landed, Telfair could be shipped off in a Dunleavy minute... We've seen how quickly Dunleavy can move players.

If Sessions happens, 2011, you'll still have your super-star Baron in the starting lineup, so what are you so worried about?

Baron avgs more assist than sessions, sessions is a HIGH SHOOTING PERCENTAGE scoring pg, putting up big numbers,..likes to shoot and score more than he passes...which is why dunleavy cant wait to call ISO PLAYS FOR HIM cause unlike baron he likes one on one

everything u wrote there is completely upside down and totally contradicts from the truth

dont get me wrong wouldnt mind having him, i mean there was a 6 month strecth where baron and the starters played 38 mins a game with dunleavy not trusting taylor, jordon, and novak at the time.....

good lord have mercy

Baron is the epitomy of a shoot first point guard.

Here is both of their stats on a 48min/game basis.

PLayer . . . . . . . . . PTS . Shots FG % . FT% . Reb . Ast . TO

Ramon Sessions . 22.3 . 17.6 44% . 79% . 6.1 . 10.3 . 3.42

Baron Davis . b ... 21.2 . 21.0 37% . 75% . 5.3 . 10.9 . 4.26

as you can see Ramon actually outplayed Baron in every category except apg (a marginal difference of .6) which is very quickly undermined by the large discrepancy in shots, FG%, and the upper hand Ramon has in reb. and to's.

So who is actually the me first shoot first PG again?

sz123456
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clipperstown wrote:
Clipper-Josh wrote:
SamMays wrote:
Bowen would actually be very good here... Great defender with something still in the tank... Plays the 2 and 3 and hits the open jumper... I wouldn't mind him... Anything but Gadzuric.

I thought Bowen was going to be released by Milwaukee and the he was going to go back to the Spurs.

That is the rumor I intially heard when he was traded.

yes i heard the very same rumor

Wouldn't the Bucks save more money if they traded Bowen as opposed to buying him out?

MrB
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The bucks may want us to take on some of that unwanted salary in order to get Sessions in a trade.

SamMays
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Repped High Quality Post

The thing I like about Sessions is how many points he gets per shot. He can beat his man off the dribble (a quality Baron has lost) so he gets the defense scrambling and breaking down... As a result, he gets fouled a lot and goes to the line a lot and scores as many points while having to take fewer shots... While he's attacking and putting the defense in trouble, Baron is shooting step-back 3 pointers with a man in his grill. And making only 29% of them.

If Baron is going to play like he did last year, he'll be the 3rd string PG behind Telfair. And he'll deserve to be.

ether
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Wait a second. Look at these stats again.

Better FG %: Baron (by far)

Better Rebs: Baron

Better Assist to TO: Baron (by far)

It's a stretch to say Ramon outplayed Baron. In fact it looks to be other way around. Plus Baron takes 4 more shots per game but shoots for a higher %. So compared to Ramon, Baron MAKES all 4 of those extra shots he takes. That's a GOOD THING!

david
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^^I think Baron's and Ramon's stats are reversed. Baron definitely shot less than 40% last year.

clipperboy24
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haha, good catch David. sorry about that everyone, i just edited the order. should be correct now:)

clipperboy24
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i actually had a bunch of the stats mixed up. I was focusing on making the columns match up and reversed the #'s. sorry gentlemen:)

clipperboy24
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ether wrote:
clipperboy24 wrote:
Baron is the epitomy of a shoot first point guard.

Here is both of their stats on a 48min/game basis.

PLayer . . . . . . . . . PTS . Shots FG % . FT% . Reb . Ast . TO

Baron Davis . b ... 21.2 . 21.0 44% . 79% . 6.1 . 10.3 . 3.42

Ramon Sessions . 22.3 . 17.6 37% . 75% . 5.3 . 10.9 . 4.26

as you can see Ramon actually outplayed Baron in every category except apg (a marginal difference of .6) which is very quickly undermined by the large discrepancy in shots, FG%, and the upper hand Ramon has in reb. and to's.

So who is actually the me first shoot first PG again?

Wait a second. Look at these stats again.

Better FG %: Baron (by far)

Better Rebs: Baron

Better Assist to TO: Baron (by far)

It's a stretch to say Ramon outplayed Baron. In fact it looks to be other way around. Plus Baron takes 4 more shots per game but shoots for a higher %. So compared to Ramon, Baron MAKES all 4 of those extra shots he takes. That's a GOOD THING!

I fixed the #'s that i had screwed up. What stated originally was correct i just had the columns all messed up.

Clipperworldchamps2011
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clipperboy24 wrote:
Clipperworldchamps2011 wrote:
SamMays wrote:
Dunleavy wants Sessions very badly... In large part because of the way Baron played last year and the effort he put out... He doesn't trust Baron and wants a pass-first PG with this team, the best one he can get and Sessions is very good... If Sessions comes in, he won't be a backup. He'll be part of a 3-guard rotation and will play plenty of minutes. It will put heat on Baron to play hard or lose his starting job. And remember, when Sessions is on the floor, Baron can play the 2 while Gordon rests.

And I know your broken record argument 2011... Baron is great, it's Dunleavy's fault he sucked last year... Well, the reality is, Dunleavy is in charge. Baron didn't hustle for him and Dunleavy doesn't trust him and wants a plan B that is good enough to turn into a plan A in the event Baron is hurt or doesn't play hard... Both very realistic possibilities. He's not going to be held hostage by Baron's moods again.

Telfair is just insurance in case none of this goes through... He's better than Taylor and is a lower-quality player, but one who plays a similar style of game to Sessions. Telfair has no impact on the pursuit of Sessions. If Sessions is landed, Telfair could be shipped off in a Dunleavy minute... We've seen how quickly Dunleavy can move players.

If Sessions happens, 2011, you'll still have your super-star Baron in the starting lineup, so what are you so worried about?

Baron avgs more assist than sessions, sessions is a HIGH SHOOTING PERCENTAGE scoring pg, putting up big numbers,..likes to shoot and score more than he passes...which is why dunleavy cant wait to call ISO PLAYS FOR HIM cause unlike baron he likes one on one

everything u wrote there is completely upside down and totally contradicts from the truth

dont get me wrong wouldnt mind having him, i mean there was a 6 month strecth where baron and the starters played 38 mins a game with dunleavy not trusting taylor, jordon, and novak at the time.....

good lord have mercy

Baron is the epitomy of a shoot first point guard.

Here is both of their stats on a 48min/game basis.

PLayer . . . . . . . . . PTS . Shots FG % . FT% . Reb . Ast . TO

Ramon Sessions . 22.3 . 17.6 44% . 79% . 6.1 . 10.3 . 3.42

Baron Davis . b ... 21.2 . 21.0 37% . 75% . 5.3 . 10.9 . 4.26

as you can see Ramon actually outplayed Baron in every category except apg (a marginal difference of .6) which is very quickly undermined by the large discrepancy in shots, FG%, and the upper hand Ramon has in reb. and to's.

So who is actually the me first shoot first PG again?

sessions was an occasional starter who played against back ups...

sessions better say hello to mike dunleavy... going from a guy who never stands up, let alone ever yells... scott skiles offense is allll about ball movement. (being an ex assist guy) in where dunleavy is iso play over iso play

baron's number with a decent coach almost a year ago??

0.426 feild goal

7.7 asist per gam

21.2 ppg

and a tenacity unlike any point guard to earn his 65 million dollar contract.....

a side me 1st players like zach, your numbers drop if your a 'team oriented player like baron"

to watch his career and call him a shot 1st pg just makes u less creditably to argue with.....ANYONE WITH FACTS?????

Clipperworldchamps2011
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SamMays wrote:
Quote:

Baron is the epitomy of a shoot first point guard.

Here is both of their stats on a 48min/game basis.

PLayer . . . . . . . . . PTS . Shots FG % . FT% . Reb . Ast . TO

Baron Davis . b ... 21.2 . 21.0 44% . 79% . 6.1 . 10.3 . 3.42

Ramon Sessions . 22.3 . 17.6 37% . 75% . 5.3 . 10.9 . 4.26

as you can see Ramon actually outplayed Baron in every category except apg (a marginal difference of .6) which is very quickly undermined by the large discrepancy in shots, FG%, and the upper hand Ramon has in reb. and to's.

So who is actually the me first shoot first PG again?

The thing I like about Sessions is how many points he gets per shot. He can beat his man off the dribble (a quality Baron has lost) so he gets the defense scrambling and breaking down... As a result, he gets fouled a lot and goes to the line a lot and scores as many points while having to take fewer shots... While he's attacking and putting the defense in trouble, Baron is shooting step-back 3 pointers with a man in his grill. And making only 29% of them.

If Baron is going to play like he did last year, he'll be the 3rd string PG behind Telfair. And he'll deserve to be.

lol a quality that baron lost????

i cant wait for sessions to break it down get into the lane....OH BUT WAIT????? camby isnt being guarded and sessions threw it out to the corner top free throw line....now we wait 3 secs .while camby wines up his shot....lol

defense scrambling???? break it down??? DUUUDE!!!! what game do u watch??? LOL...ISO PLAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <<< read it

you know when dubleavy stands and puts his hands around his mouth HE IS CALLING A PLAY!!!!! i mean holy crap already!!!! WATCH CLIPPER GAMES...

hmmm baron plays in a up tempo system aka FREEDOM, gets in the lane so fast he dunks on TOP of kerilinko head ( and many more), he becomes the top 3-4 pg in the league for the 2 years he's with THAT STYLE...and what did it doo???? EARN HIM 65 MILLION DOLLARS

hmmmm so he comes in one of the top pg in the league, he comes to a coach who has been successful FOR 1 YEAR out of 7!! and all of a sudden THE 1ST TIME IN HIS CAREER he cant achieve what he wants to do?? hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Shocked

clipfan96
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i don't consider baron a shoot first pg -

last season was such a mess i don't know who to blame, but i'm not so quick to forget all the qualities about baron that made everyone including myself lose their minds in excitement when he decided to sign with us.

still, i hope we get sessions - i like his game from what i've seen. numbers don't tell everything about point guard play - i'd feel more than safe with him running my team if baron went down, i can't say that about many pg's under 24 - for the mle for that matter.

clipperboy24
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Clipperworldchamps2011 wrote:
clipperboy24 wrote:
Clipperworldchamps2011 wrote:
SamMays wrote:
Dunleavy wants Sessions very badly... In large part because of the way Baron played last year and the effort he put out... He doesn't trust Baron and wants a pass-first PG with this team, the best one he can get and Sessions is very good... If Sessions comes in, he won't be a backup. He'll be part of a 3-guard rotation and will play plenty of minutes. It will put heat on Baron to play hard or lose his starting job. And remember, when Sessions is on the floor, Baron can play the 2 while Gordon rests.

And I know your broken record argument 2011... Baron is great, it's Dunleavy's fault he sucked last year... Well, the reality is, Dunleavy is in charge. Baron didn't hustle for him and Dunleavy doesn't trust him and wants a plan B that is good enough to turn into a plan A in the event Baron is hurt or doesn't play hard... Both very realistic possibilities. He's not going to be held hostage by Baron's moods again.

Telfair is just insurance in case none of this goes through... He's better than Taylor and is a lower-quality player, but one who plays a similar style of game to Sessions. Telfair has no impact on the pursuit of Sessions. If Sessions is landed, Telfair could be shipped off in a Dunleavy minute... We've seen how quickly Dunleavy can move players.

If Sessions happens, 2011, you'll still have your super-star Baron in the starting lineup, so what are you so worried about?

Baron avgs more assist than sessions, sessions is a HIGH SHOOTING PERCENTAGE scoring pg, putting up big numbers,..likes to shoot and score more than he passes...which is why dunleavy cant wait to call ISO PLAYS FOR HIM cause unlike baron he likes one on one

everything u wrote there is completely upside down and totally contradicts from the truth

dont get me wrong wouldnt mind having him, i mean there was a 6 month strecth where baron and the starters played 38 mins a game with dunleavy not trusting taylor, jordon, and novak at the time.....

good lord have mercy

Baron is the epitomy of a shoot first point guard.

Here is both of their stats on a 48min/game basis.

PLayer . . . . . . . . . PTS . Shots FG % . FT% . Reb . Ast . TO

Ramon Sessions . 22.3 . 17.6 44% . 79% . 6.1 . 10.3 . 3.42

Baron Davis . b ... 21.2 . 21.0 37% . 75% . 5.3 . 10.9 . 4.26

as you can see Ramon actually outplayed Baron in every category except apg (a marginal difference of .6) which is very quickly undermined by the large discrepancy in shots, FG%, and the upper hand Ramon has in reb. and to's.

So who is actually the me first shoot first PG again?

sessions was an occasional starter who played against back ups...

sessions better say hello to mike dunleavy... going from a guy who never stands up, let alone ever yells... scott skiles offense is allll about ball movement. (being an ex assist guy) in where dunleavy is iso play over iso play

baron's number with a decent coach almost a year ago??

0.426 feild goal

7.7 asist per gam

21.2 ppg

and a tenacity unlike any point guard to earn his 65 million dollar contract.....

a side me 1st players like zach, your numbers drop if your a 'team oriented player like baron"

to watch his career and call him a shot 1st pg just makes u less creditably to argue with.....ANYONE WITH FACTS?????

First off, i dont think you really want facts because they will prove you wrong.

2nd, 42.6% is a horrible FG% no matter what position you play.

Here are the facts that you wanted, proving Baron as shoot first...

In an offense where you said Baron was cramped and not able to do his own thing, then presumably he would have takn less shots right? Well this is actually true.

What does this mean? Even when you say he was completely offensively handicapped by dunleavy he still managed to jack 21 shots/game on a 48 min. avg. The year before he averaged 22.9 shots/game and the year before 22.5 and has a career average of 20.5 sh/game an a career FG% of 41%.

Let me put this in perspective for you because clearly you do not follow stats.

Here are the career shots/game and FG% of 10 of the top PG's over the last 10 years (assist wise) on a 48min/game basis

Jason Kidd (definition of pass first) 16.0/gm 40% FG

Steve Nash 17.0/game 49% FG

Chris Paul 19.2/game 47% FG

Tony Parker (shoot first IMO) 19.7/game career (22.5 last 3 years) 49%FG

Stephon Marbury (definition of shootfirst right?) 20.8/game 43% FG

Deron Williams (Utah cant have shoot first:) 18.2/game 47%

Chauncey Billups (The true floor general) 16.5/game 42%

Andre Miller (underrated passer) 16.2/game 46%

Mike Bibby 18.4/game 44%

and the grand daddy of all shoot first and maybe future Clipp:

Allen Iverson 25.8/Game 43% FG

as you can see Baron Davis Trumps all except Tony Parker, Marbury and Iverson. He even makes Marbury look formidable as a facilitator (in some members perspectives) since their #'s are so close.

There is nothing wrong with scoring but if one is going to shoot a lot as a PG, the FG % should be higher. All the PG's with less than 45% FG took significantly less shots than Baron except Marbury. Now wouldyou say that Marbury is a me second pass first PG?

Didnt think so.

infamous-one
Clipper D-League Pickup
 Avatar
Posts: 40
votes: 0

just readed this from nba web site!!!!

Clippers lone suitor for Sessions?

Several league sources said Wednesday that they believed the New York Knicks had abandoned their pursuit of Bucks restricted free agent guard Ramon Sessions, leaving the Clippers as the prime candidate for the 23-year-old. The Oklahoma City Thunder has a tangential interest, according to sources, but is not believed to be seriously pursuing Sessions.

With the Knicks still trying to keep as much cap room as possible for 2010, tying up funds in Sessions apparently is not a priority for New York, which is also in the midst of discussions with unrestricted free agent Andre Miller. However, the same limitations apply for Miller, who is looking for more than the one year offered by both New York and Philadelphia.

Despite already having Baron Davis and newly-acquired Sebastian Telfair at the point, the Clippers still want Sessions, who emerged as a solid backup and occasional starter over the last year and a half in Milwaukee, where he averaged 12.4 points and 5.7 assists in 79 games last season. The Bucks' trade of Richard Jefferson to San Antonio in June was done to help them have future flexibility, but Bucks fans hoped they might be able to retain either Charlie Villanueva or Sessions in free agency this summer.

Clipperworldchamps2011
Clipper Starter
Posts: 313

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votes: 1

clipperboy24 wrote:
Clipperworldchamps2011 wrote:
clipperboy24 wrote:
Clipperworldchamps2011 wrote:
SamMays wrote:
Dunleavy wants Sessions very badly... In large part because of the way Baron played last year and the effort he put out... He doesn't trust Baron and wants a pass-first PG with this team, the best one he can get and Sessions is very good... If Sessions comes in, he won't be a backup. He'll be part of a 3-guard rotation and will play plenty of minutes. It will put heat on Baron to play hard or lose his starting job. And remember, when Sessions is on the floor, Baron can play the 2 while Gordon rests.

And I know your broken record argument 2011... Baron is great, it's Dunleavy's fault he sucked last year... Well, the reality is, Dunleavy is in charge. Baron didn't hustle for him and Dunleavy doesn't trust him and wants a plan B that is good enough to turn into a plan A in the event Baron is hurt or doesn't play hard... Both very realistic possibilities. He's not going to be held hostage by Baron's moods again.

Telfair is just insurance in case none of this goes through... He's better than Taylor and is a lower-quality player, but one who plays a similar style of game to Sessions. Telfair has no impact on the pursuit of Sessions. If Sessions is landed, Telfair could be shipped off in a Dunleavy minute... We've seen how quickly Dunleavy can move players.

If Sessions happens, 2011, you'll still have your super-star Baron in the starting lineup, so what are you so worried about?

Baron avgs more assist than sessions, sessions is a HIGH SHOOTING PERCENTAGE scoring pg, putting up big numbers,..likes to shoot and score more than he passes...which is why dunleavy cant wait to call ISO PLAYS FOR HIM cause unlike baron he likes one on one

everything u wrote there is completely upside down and totally contradicts from the truth

dont get me wrong wouldnt mind having him, i mean there was a 6 month strecth where baron and the starters played 38 mins a game with dunleavy not trusting taylor, jordon, and novak at the time.....

good lord have mercy

Baron is the epitomy of a shoot first point guard.

Here is both of their stats on a 48min/game basis.

PLayer . . . . . . . . . PTS . Shots FG % . FT% . Reb . Ast . TO

Ramon Sessions . 22.3 . 17.6 44% . 79% . 6.1 . 10.3 . 3.42

Baron Davis . b ... 21.2 . 21.0 37% . 75% . 5.3 . 10.9 . 4.26

as you can see Ramon actually outplayed Baron in every category except apg (a marginal difference of .6) which is very quickly undermined by the large discrepancy in shots, FG%, and the upper hand Ramon has in reb. and to's.

So who is actually the me first shoot first PG again?

sessions was an occasional starter who played against back ups...

sessions better say hello to mike dunleavy... going from a guy who never stands up, let alone ever yells... scott skiles offense is allll about ball movement. (being an ex assist guy) in where dunleavy is iso play over iso play

baron's number with a decent coach almost a year ago??

0.426 feild goal

7.7 asist per gam

21.2 ppg

and a tenacity unlike any point guard to earn his 65 million dollar contract.....

a side me 1st players like zach, your numbers drop if your a 'team oriented player like baron"

to watch his career and call him a shot 1st pg just makes u less creditably to argue with.....ANYONE WITH FACTS?????

First off, i dont think you really want facts because they will prove you wrong.

2nd, 42.6% is a horrible FG% no matter what position you play.

Here are the facts that you wanted, proving Baron as shoot first...

In an offense where you said Baron was cramped and not able to do his own thing, then presumably he would have takn less shots right? Well this is actually true.

What does this mean? Even when you say he was completely offensively handicapped by dunleavy he still managed to jack 21 shots/game on a 48 min. avg. The year before he averaged 22.9 shots/game and the year before 22.5 and has a career average of 20.5 sh/game an a career FG% of 41%.

Let me put this in perspective for you because clearly you do not follow stats.

Here are the career shots/game and FG% of 10 of the top PG's over the last 10 years (assist wise) on a 48min/game basis

Jason Kidd (definition of pass first) 16.0/gm 40% FG

Steve Nash 17.0/game 49% FG

Chris Paul 19.2/game 47% FG

Tony Parker (shoot first IMO) 19.7/game career (22.5 last 3 years) 49%FG

Stephon Marbury (definition of shootfirst right?) 20.8/game 43% FG

Deron Williams (Utah cant have shoot first:) 18.2/game 47%

Chauncey Billups (The true floor general) 16.5/game 42%

Andre Miller (underrated passer) 16.2/game 46%

Mike Bibby 18.4/game 44%

and the grand daddy of all shoot first and maybe future Clipp:

Allen Iverson 25.8/Game 43% FG

as you can see Baron Davis Trumps all except Tony Parker, Marbury and Iverson. He even makes Marbury look formidable as a facilitator (in some members perspectives) since their #'s are so close.

There is nothing wrong with scoring but if one is going to shoot a lot as a PG, the FG % should be higher. All the PG's with less than 45% FG took significantly less shots than Baron except Marbury. Now wouldyou say that Marbury is a me second pass first PG?

Didnt think so.

has to be one of the worst arguments here man..

comparing baron davis to stephon marbary is jusssst.....im not gonna do it....

im done arguing with u clipb

clipperboy24
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4862
votes: 37

Clipperworldchamps2011 wrote:
clipperboy24 wrote:
Clipperworldchamps2011 wrote:
clipperboy24 wrote:
Clipperworldchamps2011 wrote:
SamMays wrote:
Dunleavy wants Sessions very badly... In large part because of the way Baron played last year and the effort he put out... He doesn't trust Baron and wants a pass-first PG with this team, the best one he can get and Sessions is very good... If Sessions comes in, he won't be a backup. He'll be part of a 3-guard rotation and will play plenty of minutes. It will put heat on Baron to play hard or lose his starting job. And remember, when Sessions is on the floor, Baron can play the 2 while Gordon rests.

And I know your broken record argument 2011... Baron is great, it's Dunleavy's fault he sucked last year... Well, the reality is, Dunleavy is in charge. Baron didn't hustle for him and Dunleavy doesn't trust him and wants a plan B that is good enough to turn into a plan A in the event Baron is hurt or doesn't play hard... Both very realistic possibilities. He's not going to be held hostage by Baron's moods again.

Telfair is just insurance in case none of this goes through... He's better than Taylor and is a lower-quality player, but one who plays a similar style of game to Sessions. Telfair has no impact on the pursuit of Sessions. If Sessions is landed, Telfair could be shipped off in a Dunleavy minute... We've seen how quickly Dunleavy can move players.

If Sessions happens, 2011, you'll still have your super-star Baron in the starting lineup, so what are you so worried about?

Baron avgs more assist than sessions, sessions is a HIGH SHOOTING PERCENTAGE scoring pg, putting up big numbers,..likes to shoot and score more than he passes...which is why dunleavy cant wait to call ISO PLAYS FOR HIM cause unlike baron he likes one on one

everything u wrote there is completely upside down and totally contradicts from the truth

dont get me wrong wouldnt mind having him, i mean there was a 6 month strecth where baron and the starters played 38 mins a game with dunleavy not trusting taylor, jordon, and novak at the time.....

good lord have mercy

Baron is the epitomy of a shoot first point guard.

Here is both of their stats on a 48min/game basis.

PLayer . . . . . . . . . PTS . Shots FG % . FT% . Reb . Ast . TO

Ramon Sessions . 22.3 . 17.6 44% . 79% . 6.1 . 10.3 . 3.42

Baron Davis . b ... 21.2 . 21.0 37% . 75% . 5.3 . 10.9 . 4.26

as you can see Ramon actually outplayed Baron in every category except apg (a marginal difference of .6) which is very quickly undermined by the large discrepancy in shots, FG%, and the upper hand Ramon has in reb. and to's.

So who is actually the me first shoot first PG again?

sessions was an occasional starter who played against back ups...

sessions better say hello to mike dunleavy... going from a guy who never stands up, let alone ever yells... scott skiles offense is allll about ball movement. (being an ex assist guy) in where dunleavy is iso play over iso play

baron's number with a decent coach almost a year ago??

0.426 feild goal

7.7 asist per gam

21.2 ppg

and a tenacity unlike any point guard to earn his 65 million dollar contract.....

a side me 1st players like zach, your numbers drop if your a 'team oriented player like baron"

to watch his career and call him a shot 1st pg just makes u less creditably to argue with.....ANYONE WITH FACTS?????

First off, i dont think you really want facts because they will prove you wrong.

2nd, 42.6% is a horrible FG% no matter what position you play.

Here are the facts that you wanted, proving Baron as shoot first...

In an offense where you said Baron was cramped and not able to do his own thing, then presumably he would have takn less shots right? Well this is actually true.

What does this mean? Even when you say he was completely offensively handicapped by dunleavy he still managed to jack 21 shots/game on a 48 min. avg. The year before he averaged 22.9 shots/game and the year before 22.5 and has a career average of 20.5 sh/game an a career FG% of 41%.

Let me put this in perspective for you because clearly you do not follow stats.

Here are the career shots/game and FG% of 10 of the top PG's over the last 10 years (assist wise) on a 48min/game basis

Jason Kidd (definition of pass first) 16.0/gm 40% FG

Steve Nash 17.0/game 49% FG

Chris Paul 19.2/game 47% FG

Tony Parker (shoot first IMO) 19.7/game career (22.5 last 3 years) 49%FG

Stephon Marbury (definition of shootfirst right?) 20.8/game 43% FG

Deron Williams (Utah cant have shoot first:) 18.2/game 47%

Chauncey Billups (The true floor general) 16.5/game 42%

Andre Miller (underrated passer) 16.2/game 46%

Mike Bibby 18.4/game 44%

and the grand daddy of all shoot first and maybe future Clipp:

Allen Iverson 25.8/Game 43% FG

as you can see Baron Davis Trumps all except Tony Parker, Marbury and Iverson. He even makes Marbury look formidable as a facilitator (in some members perspectives) since their #'s are so close.

There is nothing wrong with scoring but if one is going to shoot a lot as a PG, the FG % should be higher. All the PG's with less than 45% FG took significantly less shots than Baron except Marbury. Now wouldyou say that Marbury is a me second pass first PG?

Didnt think so.

has to be one of the worst arguments here man..

comparing baron davis to stephon marbary is jusssst.....im not gonna do it....

im done arguing with u clipb

you are really hilarious! After all of those stats you walk away being pissed because marbury's shooting stats are very similar to Baron Davis'?

I am thankful you wont try to argue.

"Even a fool is thought to be wise if he keeps his mouth shut"

david
Site Admin
Posts: 8508
votes: 42

Er- sounds to me instead like a great argument to me with facts. Baron does shoot a bit too much for a PG- that might be okay if you're shooting a good %, but 37%??? You're killing your team.

But by all means I hope Baron plays much better. I think he will play better, but how much better, who knows. That's why having a player of Session's caliber is vital if we want to make the playoffs as insurance if Baron struggles or gets injured- he's not exactly the most durable player out there.

Clipperworldchamps2011
Clipper Starter
Posts: 313

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votes: 1

david wrote:
Quote:
has to be one of the worst arguments here man..

comparing baron davis to stephon marbary is jusssst.....im not gonna do it....

im done arguing with u clipb

Er- sounds to me instead like a great argument to me with facts. Baron does shoot a bit too much for a PG- that might be okay if you're shooting a good %, but 37%??? You're killing your team.

But by all means I hope Baron plays much better. I think he will play better, but how much better, who knows. That's why having a player of Session's caliber is vital if we want to make the playoffs as insurance if Baron struggles or gets injured- he's not exactly the most durable player out there.

i like to judge baron before the dunleavy era...

Clipperworldchamps2011
Clipper Starter
Posts: 313

is.gif
votes: 1

clipperboy24 wrote:
Clipperworldchamps2011 wrote:
clipperboy24 wrote:
Clipperworldchamps2011 wrote:
clipperboy24 wrote:
Clipperworldchamps2011 wrote:
SamMays wrote:
Dunleavy wants Sessions very badly... In large part because of the way Baron played last year and the effort he put out... He doesn't trust Baron and wants a pass-first PG with this team, the best one he can get and Sessions is very good... If Sessions comes in, he won't be a backup. He'll be part of a 3-guard rotation and will play plenty of minutes. It will put heat on Baron to play hard or lose his starting job. And remember, when Sessions is on the floor, Baron can play the 2 while Gordon rests.

And I know your broken record argument 2011... Baron is great, it's Dunleavy's fault he sucked last year... Well, the reality is, Dunleavy is in charge. Baron didn't hustle for him and Dunleavy doesn't trust him and wants a plan B that is good enough to turn into a plan A in the event Baron is hurt or doesn't play hard... Both very realistic possibilities. He's not going to be held hostage by Baron's moods again.

Telfair is just insurance in case none of this goes through... He's better than Taylor and is a lower-quality player, but one who plays a similar style of game to Sessions. Telfair has no impact on the pursuit of Sessions. If Sessions is landed, Telfair could be shipped off in a Dunleavy minute... We've seen how quickly Dunleavy can move players.

If Sessions happens, 2011, you'll still have your super-star Baron in the starting lineup, so what are you so worried about?

Baron avgs more assist than sessions, sessions is a HIGH SHOOTING PERCENTAGE scoring pg, putting up big numbers,..likes to shoot and score more than he passes...which is why dunleavy cant wait to call ISO PLAYS FOR HIM cause unlike baron he likes one on one

everything u wrote there is completely upside down and totally contradicts from the truth

dont get me wrong wouldnt mind having him, i mean there was a 6 month strecth where baron and the starters played 38 mins a game with dunleavy not trusting taylor, jordon, and novak at the time.....

good lord have mercy

Baron is the epitomy of a shoot first point guard.

Here is both of their stats on a 48min/game basis.

PLayer . . . . . . . . . PTS . Shots FG % . FT% . Reb . Ast . TO

Ramon Sessions . 22.3 . 17.6 44% . 79% . 6.1 . 10.3 . 3.42

Baron Davis . b ... 21.2 . 21.0 37% . 75% . 5.3 . 10.9 . 4.26

as you can see Ramon actually outplayed Baron in every category except apg (a marginal difference of .6) which is very quickly undermined by the large discrepancy in shots, FG%, and the upper hand Ramon has in reb. and to's.

So who is actually the me first shoot first PG again?

sessions was an occasional starter who played against back ups...

sessions better say hello to mike dunleavy... going from a guy who never stands up, let alone ever yells... scott skiles offense is allll about ball movement. (being an ex assist guy) in where dunleavy is iso play over iso play

baron's number with a decent coach almost a year ago??

0.426 feild goal

7.7 asist per gam

21.2 ppg

and a tenacity unlike any point guard to earn his 65 million dollar contract.....

a side me 1st players like zach, your numbers drop if your a 'team oriented player like baron"

to watch his career and call him a shot 1st pg just makes u less creditably to argue with.....ANYONE WITH FACTS?????

First off, i dont think you really want facts because they will prove you wrong.

2nd, 42.6% is a horrible FG% no matter what position you play.

Here are the facts that you wanted, proving Baron as shoot first...

In an offense where you said Baron was cramped and not able to do his own thing, then presumably he would have takn less shots right? Well this is actually true.

What does this mean? Even when you say he was completely offensively handicapped by dunleavy he still managed to jack 21 shots/game on a 48 min. avg. The year before he averaged 22.9 shots/game and the year before 22.5 and has a career average of 20.5 sh/game an a career FG% of 41%.

Let me put this in perspective for you because clearly you do not follow stats.

Here are the career shots/game and FG% of 10 of the top PG's over the last 10 years (assist wise) on a 48min/game basis

Jason Kidd (definition of pass first) 16.0/gm 40% FG

Steve Nash 17.0/game 49% FG

Chris Paul 19.2/game 47% FG

Tony Parker (shoot first IMO) 19.7/game career (22.5 last 3 years) 49%FG

Stephon Marbury (definition of shootfirst right?) 20.8/game 43% FG

Deron Williams (Utah cant have shoot first:) 18.2/game 47%

Chauncey Billups (The true floor general) 16.5/game 42%

Andre Miller (underrated passer) 16.2/game 46%

Mike Bibby 18.4/game 44%

and the grand daddy of all shoot first and maybe future Clipp:

Allen Iverson 25.8/Game 43% FG

as you can see Baron Davis Trumps all except Tony Parker, Marbury and Iverson. He even makes Marbury look formidable as a facilitator (in some members perspectives) since their #'s are so close.

There is nothing wrong with scoring but if one is going to shoot a lot as a PG, the FG % should be higher. All the PG's with less than 45% FG took significantly less shots than Baron except Marbury. Now wouldyou say that Marbury is a me second pass first PG?

Didnt think so.

has to be one of the worst arguments here man..

comparing baron davis to stephon marbary is jusssst.....im not gonna do it....

im done arguing with u clipb

you are really hilarious! After all of those stats you walk away being pissed because marbury's shooting stats are very similar to Baron Davis'?

I am thankful you wont try to argue.

"Even a fool is thought to be wise if he keeps his mouth shut"

no a fool wont answer MARBURY IS EQUAL TO BARON DAVIS...

thats just not arguable....

MrB
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 2433

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votes: 18

Can you guys please stop quoting post after post after post. It's hard to read. Thanks.

MrB
Clipper All-Star
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Age: 38
Posts: 2433

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votes: 18

David, just to add, Sessions would also make our bench much better. I think he is a better pg over Telfair. He makes us a better quality team.

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