Clippers at Lakers 10/27/09 Game Thread - Opening Night! (P. 9)

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LAC_12
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It was definately a first game... should be a nice 20 games without Blake our squad can handle the heat until his return.

clipper321
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At Journeyman....WOW look who is more important ...Gasol for the Lakers or Griffin for the Clippers..hmmm lemme think Gasol a perennial all-star, NBA champion, and second best player on the Lakers and a rookie who hasnt even played 1 NBA regular season game yet? WOW thats really hard to answer lmao.

The Lakers did not play well at all and anyone who really payed attention to the game would be able to see that.

The fact is this team looked like last years team in many respects

We lost the ball twice on taking the ball INBOUNDS for crying out loud

CLIPPER$ZONE
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This game shows I am smart ;]

season is under 35 wins =]

we need a diffrent coach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,mindset,and play hard at home we have no cheers there and baron is used to the house rocking and **** this man.

journeyman
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clipper321, I'm not sure you know what perennial means...

All I'm saying is, if you want to bring up injuries, then have all the cards on the table. What happens if they were missing Gasol and we still had Griffin? the answer: it doesn't matter; and neither does the reverse hypothetical.

ekker3
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this team needs a backbone. whenever the lakers started going on runs, we started forcing everything in order to break that momentum. forced shots, passes, dribbles. lots of iso on part of the player.

that being said, we kept the lakers under 100.

most everything's been said (baron's tentativeness, rhino's rampage...im pretty excited with bassy. best backup PG we've had in a looog while, maybe back to gary grant)

DJ looks like a rookie right now. out of place on rotations, bad rebound positioning, isnt utilizing his height, etc.

all things considered, im content with the outcome. all we need is personality and someone to step up as a go to guy. it doesnt look like we have a face to our team yet. that's troubling.

Yaroslavs#1Fan
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clippers didn't have blake, they played really sloppy, shot badly, committed terrible fouls, and still were in the game throughout. the clips lost by 38 last year, they lost by 7 tonight. very big difference.

clipper321
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I know what perennial means it means many times yes I know maybe I misused that word thanks for calling me out but the frustration I have felt from this game makes me go all out.

Look, what I am trying to say is this team looks bad and anyone who thinks otherwise is just trying to fool themselves. The point of me saying they didn't have Gasol just emphasizes the fact that we had a chance and we failed miserably like we always do.

Man, I dont even know what your argument is to be honest all you've done is insulted my intelligence even though yes I used it out of context and stated the obvious.

ekker3
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<-----18 pts, 16 rebs

clipper321
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Yaroslav why are you ignoring my point....if the Lakers played well we would have lost by more thats my point we are still playing terribly. why does everyone talk like Blake is all of a sudden Kobe to our team...he helps but hes not the team.

david
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Just finished watching the game. We just had way too many turnovers.... Many of them were unforced too- yikes. Baron- didn't look good at all. I'll give him a little benefit of the doubt since his foot is bothering him, but those shots he took looked really bad like last year. Maybe Telfair should start until Baron's foot feels better. Gordon, Kaman, and Camby all had nice games. Al and Rasual- not as nice. Our 3 point shooting- really bad at 3 for 15. Off the bench Craig Smith did well, esp. in that second quarter.

Tomorrow against Phoenix- we better clean up the turnovers or I'm pretty sure it's not going to be pretty....

journeyman
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There's no shame to losing to a loaded team coming off a championship season.

My only argument (not that I'd call it that) is stop putting things in strictly negative light. No one is saying they played great tonight. In fact, pretty much everyone has acknowledged Baron/Butler/Thornton's bad shooting night and the constant turnovers. Take tonight's game for what it is: a tough loss to a tough team.

Yaroslavs#1Fan
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we played like crap, the lakers did not. what r u talking about? blake is big for our team because he is our best finisher (easy baskets), he plays the hardest (gets us extra possessions), helps the teams focus apparently, and makes our team much deeper.

clipper321
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But thats my point...this team didnt play one bit like a championship team at all! Remember we made our runs against the likes of DJ Mbenga who launched 2 air ball shots and bounced a ball out of bounds off his teammates head during the game.

The reason why im negative is because this is a recurring theme with this team. Injuries, careless play, and it just hard to pull positives when thats what the fans have had to put up with for years despite coach and GM dunleavy promising a turnaround.

The 09-10 Clippers Should have won this game the fact they didnt is highly disturbing

clipper321
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we played like crap, the lakers did not. what r u talking about?

The Lakers gave DJ Mbenga and Josh Powell major minutes..thats nuff said. If you think the Lakers played well then I am sorry you have something else coming to you.

Sure Blake is a solid player and makes us much deeper but look at our other "supposed" talent that should be able to win ball games.

Chris Kaman, Marcus Camby, Eric Gordon, Craig Smith, and you know the rest

journeyman
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Okay, I can accept that. And I apologize for being condescending earlier.

Like I said, I'm disappointed with tonight. But I'm not ready to declare them a disaster like last year. I'll be interested to see how they respond to the Suns tomorrow. A win tomorrow to a team we're hoping to beat out for a playoff spot would be encouraging, but we'll have to see...

clipper321
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Well after one game it would be foolish to declare disaster im just trying to say that I expect at least some solid wins this season...but why play BD at all if hes injured? Just seeing him limp around the floor and launching up airballs makes me nervous and could possibly be a bad omen...

Hopefully I am wrong

next game I have one thing to say

GIVE THE BALL TO EJ!

journeyman
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That, I think, is something we can ALL agree on!

clipper321
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ya and I dont really think we disagree I just think we are taking different things from the loss...

CLIPPER$ZONE
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Now I belive Butler should start because Thornton takes Ill advised shots

BBCLIP1
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Clipper321, I totally agree with you. This game was right there for the taking. I'm tired of moral victories as well for this team. This is a new season, and with a new season brings new hope. At the end of the day, a win is all that matters. If this team wants to get to the next level, they need to bring it every night. Unfortunately, tonight's game showed me some problems we have always had with this team. Poor shot selection by some of our players, stupid turnovers, not boxing out on rebounds, and just lackadaisical play by many of our players. Oh yeah, poor coaching by our brilliant coach. Can't forget about him.

We cut in within 1 after 3 quarters, but guess what Dunleavy does. He takes out our most consistent scorer in the team in Eric Gordon. Instead, he plays Baron Davis and Sebastian Telfair in the backcourt to generate some offense knowing that both are struggling with their jump shots. It's things like this that make me go. roll

But we have 81 more games to go, and I'll remain optimistic. I mean, I am a Clippers fan.

Izlix
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its because positives are what keep people sane. it keeps them motivated.

and i agree with you. the team does look terrible right now. not sure who to completely blame. but dunleavy has a big part cuz hes the one whos supposed to be guiding the team. he should be the one to tell thornton to stop taking off-balanced shots. he should be the one to tell craig smith to close in on Odom because Odom is a shooter.

but then we could blame it on kaman for careless pass or butler for the same reason.

i know we cant really blame it on baron. he made mistakes but he was definitely playing his heart out tonight. same with gordon.

toohipcliptoslip
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Moral victories don't mean squat. We gave up so many points on plain old sloppiness. We looked so good then the TO's kept coming. Is Ricky gone?

Miquel
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I watched the game and I went to bed dissapointed because we could have won the game... We played really bad and we had even some options until the beginning of the last quarter

The game proved Baron Davis is not even a shadow of the player who was in Golden State. His performance was awful. He missed every shot he took. If you can't hit your jumpshot try to go inside and look for layups or closer baskets!!!It's a matter of IQ basketball. He tried to guard Kobe and well...without comments. 3 fouls in 3 attacks...although I don't blame Baron for that since maybe he wasn't the right man to defend Kobe. Definetelly he had a bad night but if I were Dunleavy I would start to see if we can deal him for someone whose contract expires before.

Thornton. He shoots too much from outside when he's not a good shooter...If you know your jumpshot isn't reliable at least wait until you have some teammates to look for the offensive rebound...I can't stand the guys who shot without offensive rebound and in our team we have some of them.

The bright side: EJ. He proved to deserve be considered the best player in this team. Quick, good shot and with a poised game. He shooted from outside and at the same time he tried to attack the basketball with penetrations. He didn't force too many shots and played a good game.

Kaman played well too. He hit most of his jumpers although he should take care and shoot when you have someone to get the offensive rebound.

I liked Telfair and Craig as well.

mj_shoefanatic
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I hope more fans notice this fact.

BigC
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I just registered for the site to state that BARON DAVIS SUCKS. He's clearly not an NBA player at this time. Telfair played much better and even if Telfair is a non-factor he does not shoot 1-9 and does not throw the ball away every time down the court so he's an overall positive and vast improvement. Minus Baron and with more playing time from Telfair, or any point guard in the NBA other than Davis, the Clips would have won that game.

clipps04
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MJSF wrote:
CLIPPER$ZONE wrote:
Now I belive Butler should start because Thornton takes Ill advised shots

I hope more fans notice this fact.

Clearly you two didn't watch the game last night or you've alreay made up your mind in which case it doesn't matter how well Al plays.

Al very well may be better suited off the bench. But if you're basing it off last night game, your way off base. The only thing wrong with Al last night was his shot selection. It was terrible but other than that, he mad 9 boards to Butlers 2 and 3 assists to butler 2. Al also has 1 turnover, Butler had 4.

SamMays
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This team seemed to pick up right where they left off last season... Baron stunk up the gym. DJ looked less than ready for prime time. They had trouble scoring and turned the ball over way too frequently. They were in the game until the fourth quarter when the Lakers got serious and put them away fairly easily.

There were some differences however that are cause for hope. First, it was the Lakers who turned it on and beat them in the fourth, not the Mavericks or Pistons or Nets. Telfair was better than any backup we had last year, which is important given Baron's steep decline (let's hope it was the ankle injury that slowed him down, because he did play well in preseason). Kaman is clearly back to form as one of the top 5 - 7 centers in the league. Our bench is clearly deeper and Gordon is a border-line all-star quality player.

We got beat up on the boards with the Lakers getting a lot of second shots. We also got out-scored from the foul line 25 - 11. That was the real difference. The Lakers got to the rim and got fouled and we didn't. Of course, the Lakers are a very long team and they make that difficult. We took 87 shots in the game, more than any team playing last night. We made 39, also more than any team playing last night... Problem is, most of them were jump shots, which also makes it difficult to get to the foul line... Baron tried to attack, but clearly didn't have it. Smith did a nice job attacking in the first half. Gordon did as well... Beyond that, it was all jump shots... And jump shooting teams usually lose. That's where Blake was missed most. The pressure he puts on the defense by attacking is a tremendous asset.

All in all, given the competition, it wasn't a terrible start for us. Disappointing of course with the absence of Griffin, but certainly no reasonn to throw in the towel.

We have a very easy November schedule while Blake mends. If we can go through our first 20 at 12 - 8 or 13-7, we'll be fine... If those records are reversed, then towels can be thrown in.

clipperboy24
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Kaman and Gordon were the only starters who looked good. Get past your hate and stop looking for Kaman to fail. kaman had a great game and if he averaged like he did last night, he would be the starting C for the All star team.

For anyone who watched the game, i think it was very apparent what a weak rebounder Camby really can be. He doesnt crash the boards and mainly grabs outside loose balls except when the other team actually hustles. Very apparent Camby is not in our long term plans. Blake Griffin will be the perfect compliment to Kaman.

B-diddy looked horrible, but he looked like it might have been an off night. One thing to notice, our team went on the runs with Telfair at point, because even though he only had 4 assists he distributed very well and the offense flowed well with him. I also think Telfair and Gordon really complimented each other.

And to complain about one thing (we lost i am entitled to one complaint)...

Seriously 17 FT's to 37 Ft's? That is a gross margin! Hard to overcome numbers like that.

Also in regards to Thornton, my eyes were opened last night to the black hole he can be. Def. looks to be better off the bench and have Rasual start in his place. Thornton's shot selection was very suspect. Game had a few highlights and a lot of lowlights.

Gordon10
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Seriously tho, thank God that we have an easy November schedule, we need to build some swagger and confidence and i think a goal of 12-8 or 13-7 is completely realistic and possible

clipperboy24
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Also, Craig Smith was a huge help off the bench. That guy is a real hustler!

NUMB3RFIFTY
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Repped High Quality Post

Can we please face the facts?

Griffin wouldn't have made a huge difference last night.

Baron Davis is CLEARLY dragging the team down because he's not 100% (and it's arguable that he drags the team down when he IS 100%)

Thornton is not who we thought he'd be. He's potential who's had plenty of time to explode but he never has. The kid can't shoot. He's looking like the wobbly second coming of Maggette. He should at least know his place and stop taking bad shots, but Baron doesn't exactly lead by example in that dept.

Camby is playing like he's wasting his time with this team.

Say what you want about Telfair but the guy is actually trying, which is more than i can say about half of the team.

Kaman missed layups last night... what else is new? If you want Kaman on the floor, you have to prepare yourself for that. He played well and is at LEAST looking like the Kaman that carried the team when Brand left.

A guy who came off the bench with the nickname "cookie monster" was our top performer at the half. COOKIE MONSTER! Not Baron Davis, one of the most coveted PG's in the league. Not Marucs Camby who's averaged 15-10 since kindergarten. Not Thornton, the man who clips fans will wait FOREVER for. ... Freakin Craig Smith.

Now don't take that the wrong way. I love Cookie Monsters game, but he shouldn't be our top performer on such a stacked team.

What causes 4th quarter breakdowns? The same thing that causes breakdowns in any quarter... Coaching. Dunleavy refused to sit Thornton, even when he was acting like a black hole. He refused to sit Baron, even when he was throwing up air-balls. And he refused to play Cookie Monster more, when he was clearly hot at halftime.

If you can't stop a run with points, TAKE A TIMEOUT. Take two if you need to!. Timeouts break momentum and they're in the coach's hands. We were down by one, and then allowed a run by the world champions (you don't come back from those.) After a 5-6 point turnaround Dun should have stopped waxing his bald spot and called a timeout.

clipperboy24
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well put. Eric and Chris really did perform well down the stretch though

Clippersfan86
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One of the smartest things said on this post. Guys i agree i want the ball in EJ's hands more but if he's not more aggressive looking for his shot... he won't score more, plain and simple. Star players know when to demand the ball. Eric hasn't shown that heart or desire. He will surely be an All star eventually but ALL the Superstar players in this league know when to take over. Gordon is far too passive and quiet to be a Superstar caliber player, despite having the gifts.

We need a player who gets pissed and has pride in winning and keeps demanding the ball and making plays. Every team but us has a go to guy. Griffin is likely to fill that role simply because he hates losing so much. I would really love Gordon and Baron to be fearless though. That doesn't mean taking bad shots... It means when **** is on the line.. you step up and make huge shots. You don't let the other team push you around without a fight.

I was a damn good shooter.... and if we were down... i went into a serious killer mode. I've had league games where i scored 20 straight points. Not because I was a ballhog but because i was hot and nobody else would take charge. We need someone like that ; o. It's crazy when you're a shooter how hot you can get. One time after practice i shot 100 straight 3's and made 83 of them. I even surprised myself some.

clipperAndrew
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journeyman wrote:
clipper321 wrote:

GIVE THE BALL TO EJ!

That, I think, is something we can ALL agree on!

I agree as well...although he needs to drive the lane more, he was passing out a lot of shots once he drove the paint...that should be Barons number one job....not EG. If EG and more so AL just drive the lane and get fouled then we would be great.

Clippersfan86
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I think we should trade Gordon,Thornton and a first round pick for Kevin Durant. This year he's going to make everyone realize he's a top 3 player. Sounds crazy but go ahead and quote me midseason. He's the only guy in the league besides Lebron that can fill an ENTIRE stat sheet. Even Wade and Kobe don't do it the same. You'll see him have 30 points,15 rebounds,5 steals and 5 blocked shots to go with 6-7 assists some games. Sick player.

ClipfanSince88
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Nice idea, but why would OKC do that? Its pretty well recognized that Durant is on his way to being a top 5 player in the league. Sure, I know there's been talk that he won't stay in Oklahoma when his rookie contract is up, but I seriously doubt the Thunder management would even consider trading him at this point.

And, I can't believe were talking trades after the 1st game.

Miquel
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clipperAndrew wrote:
journeyman wrote:
clipper321 wrote:

GIVE THE BALL TO EJ!

That, I think, is something we can ALL agree on!

I agree as well...although he needs to drive the lane more, he was passing out a lot of shots once he drove the paint...that should be Barons number one job....not EG. If EG and more so AL just drive the lane and get fouled then we would be great.

Agree. Once Baron realizes he can't hit a single jumpshot he must know how to contribute to his team and therefore driving the lane looking for layups or assists should become his work. It's called IQ basketball but it seems this guy hasn't learnt anything in his long basketball career.

As for Gordon I think he tried to go inside and got some fouls...I can't say the same for Thornton who tried to shoot his erratic shot with a flagrant poor shot selection and he didn't try to drive the lane a single one time.

Clippersfan86
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ClipfanSince88 wrote:
Clippersfan86 wrote:
I think we should trade Gordon,Thornton and a first round pick for Kevin Durant. This year he's going to make everyone realize he's a top 3 player. Sounds crazy but go ahead and quote me midseason. He's the only guy in the league besides Lebron that can fill an ENTIRE stat sheet. Even Wade and Kobe don't do it the same. You'll see him have 30 points,15 rebounds,5 steals and 5 blocked shots to go with 6-7 assists some games. Sick player.

Nice idea, but why would OKC do that? Its pretty well recognized that Durant is on his way to being a top 5 player in the league. Sure, I know there's been talk that he won't stay in Oklahoma when his rookie contract is up, but I seriously doubt the Thunder management would even consider trading him at this point.

And, I can't believe were talking trades after the 1st game.

I'm not by any means fed up with either players. If we want a Superstar caliber player though that knows how to lead when it's time.. it would be a solution was my only point. I LOVE having EJ. If i had the chance to nab a young top 5 player though of course i would. I agree that we would likely have to nab him during free agency, trade won't happen. I would pursue Durant more than Lebron TBH in free agency.

ClipfanSince88
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Clippersfan86 wrote:
ClipfanSince88 wrote:
Clippersfan86 wrote:
I think we should trade Gordon,Thornton and a first round pick for Kevin Durant. This year he's going to make everyone realize he's a top 3 player. Sounds crazy but go ahead and quote me midseason. He's the only guy in the league besides Lebron that can fill an ENTIRE stat sheet. Even Wade and Kobe don't do it the same. You'll see him have 30 points,15 rebounds,5 steals and 5 blocked shots to go with 6-7 assists some games. Sick player.

Nice idea, but why would OKC do that? Its pretty well recognized that Durant is on his way to being a top 5 player in the league. Sure, I know there's been talk that he won't stay in Oklahoma when his rookie contract is up, but I seriously doubt the Thunder management would even consider trading him at this point.

And, I can't believe were talking trades after the 1st game.

I'm not by any means fed up with either players. If we want a Superstar caliber player though that knows how to lead when it's time.. it would be a solution was my only point. I LOVE having EJ. If i had the chance to nab a young top 5 player though of course i would. I agree that we would likely have to nab him during free agency, trade won't happen. I would pursue Durant more than Lebron TBH in free agency.

Fair enough. And I completely agree that, since Cassell left, one of the team's biggest problems has been not having a player that can take over and hit big shots down the stretch in close games. Although he's quiet, I think Gordon can develop into a player like that, but he's not there yet. I'm still optimistic about this season, but I'm also excited about what we might be able to do with the cap space we have at the end of this season. My hope is that this season we'll show we're good, but maybe a player away from being a real contender. Then, we go after that one player (whether LeBron, Joe Johnson, whoever) this next offseason.

Trinidad
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Last Night Observations:

Well it wasn't as bad as last year's opener (not saying much) but still a bit disappointing. If Baron continues to show ineptitude the good thing about our offseason is that Telfair could be a suitable replacement. Now I see why so many people wanted sessions, i really hope it was because of his ankle or he just had a off night.

Other than that Smith GREAT addition, kaman showed signs of his old self, DJ seemed intimidated, ricky doesn't need to play again matter of fact just cut him take the salary hit and replace his limited minutes with rush, gordon was efficient but needs to demand the ball more get more aggressive he is truely our best player.

Butler had a horrible night but I trust him more than Al because of his overall basketball iq and judging his games when he was on the hornets and preseason. He's pretty streaky so I'm going to chalk last night up to just a bad night. Al Thornton=Corey Maggette Jr. only not as aggressive in getting to the line.

Starting lineup without blake should be pg: telfair (until baron gets truly healthy or starts competing with passion) sg: gordon sf: butler pf: Smith C: Kaman 6th man: Camby

ClipfanSince88
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I really think that has to be the case because Baron last night looked night and day different from how he looked in the preseason. So, I agree that Telfair should be starting until Baron gets right.

rick0314
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look, we lacked scoring from baron davis, and the fact the EJ was in foul trouble

overall, we had clusmy passes which gave the lakes alot of momentum

We must win tonight!!!!

SamMays
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Holy cow! I hope most of us don't invest in the stock market. The panic and knee jerk reactions on this site are astounding. Nobody said we should be beating the Lakers. They played poorly. We played poorly. The game finished about how it would have finished if both teams had played well.

Baron is having problems with his foot. I suspect he'll be all right in a week or so... This is actually me talking, the #1 Baron hater. I saw him play in preseason. While it would be a good idea if he never took a jump shot again, last night is nothing to worry about immediately. If he's playing like that on November 15th, then worry. Gordon is in his second year and only 20. Give him until his 3rd or 4th year before he's ready to say "give me the ball and get out of the way."

Kaman was outstanding last night. Yes, he missed a few shots close to the hoop, but Bynam is incredibly long. Just because shots come close to the basket doesn't mean they're easy.

You might also blame the refs last night. They had the Lakers shooting 37 foul shots to our 17. That's where the game was lost.

There were also plenty of gitters early on, which led to lots of turnovers.

What happened last night was the expected. Nothing more, nothing less.

Miquel
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Some good points but I expected much more from Baron and Thornton and it's fair to point out the poor way they played yesterday...I'm gonna give Baron some games because of his foot injury but I doubt he played so bad because of that.

As for Thornton he should realize that he must attack the basket more often when his shooting isn't going inside the basket.

dunc182
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I'm happy we didn't get destroyed, but I'm unhappy we could have had this in the bag and didn't. Baron knows he's injured, he should elect to sit out. Maybe not chuck 3 3s coz he feels tired. He's a bad 3pt shooter. Does he know that? Someone should tell him! Career average .323 means he shouldn't take it unless he's forced to in dying seconds. If he passed more he'd have the most assists in the league. START TELFAIR TONIGHT.

In fact, Dunleavy should, but won't, reward all who played well playing time tonight. That means a starting lineup of

Telfair

EJ

Thornton (he can step it up)

Rhino

Kaman

If we have a team where you earn your minutes, like every team should be, we will win night in night out ,defending champs or lottery team.

SamMays
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^^^ Depending on how Baron feels, that would be my starting lineup too... I suspect Dunleavy started Kaman and Camby up front to combat the Lakers very big 4 and 5... Rhino could be starting tonight and Telfair too.

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Location: Anaheim
votes: 11

You say "Baron knows he's injured and should elect to sit out", but then you'd have everyone on here saying he doesn't give a crap again cause he sat out the first game with a poor little foot sprain. So he elects to play, but it really bothers him and he can't do what he's been doing all preseason and he has a piss poor game, so people tell him he should have sat out more. I'm convinced that the majority of people around here will never reinstate any remote amount of confidence to a guy that, at least in my opinion, proved that he's ready to work and ready to be a different person than he was.

Now don't get me wrong, i'm not saying he doesn't have to earn that confidence back from us as a fan base, its just every day constantly i have to read more and more negative things about our on court leader and it just gets tiresome. I'm convinced he'll never do anything right for the majority of CTB. If his next 15-20 games go the same way as last night then i'll write him off too.

ClipfanSince88
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 3349
votes: 21

Very well said.

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