Trade Suggestion

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ClipFit
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Sorry, couldn't find the "official trade ideas thread".

Whether or not Kaman should be traded is a big point of contention on this board. I fall into the line of thinking that we should move him now. He's to injury prone to me, and he'll never be the type of player to take over games when it counts. He's been getting his this year, but when we've needed him in crunch time he just hasn't had the desire to get it done.

Anyways, I'm not here to debate whether or not Kaman should be traded, I just want to put out a trade I put together on the ESPN trade machine to get thoughts on it.

there aren't many teams on the market that either have guys we'd be interested in, or who would take Kaman. I think Indiana would be the best fit, both for Kaman, as well what we could get back.

So, I'd have Kaman and Thorton going to IND. Kaman would excel in Indiana and wouldn't have to be the go to guy. Thorton would compete with Brandon Rush for the 3, and would provide them with a scorer off the bench.

Coming back to LAC would be Dunleavy, Jr., Hibbert, and A.J. Price (really to make the money work). I also considered Luther Head in stead of A.J. Price, but that move wouldn't be possible to make until after Dec. 15.

The Clippers would be getting back a young, solid C who can rebound the basketball. A legitmate SF who makes everyone around him better, is a high FG% shooter (44.3% for his career) and solid defender, and either a backup PG in Price or a backup guard in Head, who's a solid outside shooter. Either player is an improvement over Mardy Collins, who I would cut.

Also, Kaman's got 3 years left on his deal and Al is locked up for this year and next. Dunleavy and Hibbert each have two years left, Price is 3 years and Head is one year.

Again, this isn't supposed to be a debate about whether we shoudl trade Kaman, it's just about IF we trade Kaman, what is your thoughts on this. Does it make us a better team? Thoughts?

lakerh8r
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ClipFit, good post. I'm not sure I agree with that trade, but let me just tell you be prepared to get a lot of backlash for this one. At the moment Kaman is probably more loved in Clipper nation than the bearded man who walked on water and healed leapers.

Miquel
Clipper All-Star
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Location: Barcelona
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WTF!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you really a Clip fan??

This trade is an insult for us

clipperboy24
CTB MVP X1
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Trading Kaman and Thornton to pickup Hibbert and Dunleavy Jr and Price just doesnt make sense. The clipps would be geting ripped off. Dnleavy Jr. is the king of injuries and who knows when he plays again. Of course this trade is great for the Pacers because they pick up a slasher to go with Granger and one of the top 5 C's in the league.

ClipFit
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yea i realize that, case in point from Miguel. I like this trade for two reasons. I like it because it makes us a better defensive team. Al has really showed up this year crashing the boards, but he still just doesn't get the defensive side of the game. Dunleavy, Jr. has Battier potiental in both his defensive game and his ability to do the small things that make the players around him better. You need guys like this on team, guys who know their rolls and have no problem playing to them. Hibbert is a better defensive player than Kaman, and while he won't provide much of the offense we get from Kaman, he'll help out, and I think we'll be more than fine when EG and BG return.

I also like this deal because we become a better shooting team. Kaman is shooting at 53% this year, 4 pts above his career average. Al is shooting 37%, 6 pts below his career average. Hibbert shot 47% in his rookie season and is shooting 50% this year. Dunleavy is a 44.3% career FG shooter and although last season he shot 40% in 18 games, the year before he shot 49% over the season. Dunleavy doesn't take the dumb shots Al does, which is why he's such an improvement at the SF position.

And if you don't believe any of what I say, the Hollinger stats gave us a +1 in the win column for this trade, so it's not as "out there" as people might think.

Afm
Clipper Starter
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Rudy Gay would fill the 2-3 position very well (our biggest need area) and with his restricted FA tag we can choose to resign him or use the cap on some one else. I dunno if Memphis would bite but the trade exception and some nice expiring contracts (and 1st rd picks) maybe dun can pull it off.

Trinidad
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 245
Location: The OC, Santa Ana
votes: 1

While I see where you're going with trying to fulfill our starting sf needs, dunleavy jr is not the answer. You talk about Kaman's injury prone, jrs' worse.

I'd go after prince if detroit would do it but I'm just not sure I'm ready to move Kaman, because with camby likely gone at the end (if not sooner) who will be our future center? Deandre while showing flashes of improvement can't be expected to be a starter next year. Al thou, you have no complaint from me in moving him.

dunc182
Clipper Starter
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what on earth did you put in your pipe before typing this?

for a start, there is no contention - if you'd been reading recent threads you'd realise most people think moving kaman now is NUTS. Secondly, you'd trade him for that? C'mon man put some thought into it!

SamMays
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4003
votes: 53

Usually the bad trades on this site work ridiculously in the Clippers favor, such as Thornton and Ricky Davis for Granger. This is one of the first that has the Clippers as the team that gets ripped off. Dunleavy isn't half the player Kaman is and he gets hurt even more... Hibbert for Thornton is a loser straight up.

The more of these trade idea threads I read, the more respect I get for Dunleavy. As for Hollinger's Plus 1, I think he figured it with Kaman arriving in Indianalopis dead.

clipperloyal11
Clipper All-Star
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Oh god! i quiver at the thought of having another dunleavy here

ClipFit
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Look at the numbers here guys before you just go running off calling it crazy

Dunleavy is NOT more injury prone than Kaman: Dunleavy missed last season and played 18 games. Prior to that, he's played 82 games 3 times, and also had seasons of 81, 79, and 75. Kaman has had seasons of 63, 31, 56 and has NEVER played more than 78 games. So there is MUCH LESS risk in Dunleavy than there is Kaman.

Thorton's best PER season was 12.53 and he's playing at a 9.27 right now. Hibbert last season had a PER of 16.16 and he's playing at a 20.18 this season. Hibbert only played 14.4 min per game last year, but he's pulling off the 20.18 at 26.5 per game this year.

Kaman is playing out of his mind this season, but we are talking 9 games, and statistically speaking he's never played this well. To make any guarantee that he will continue at this pace is not supported by any evidence, only hope. Kaman has fluctuated between 9.61 (rookie year) and 17.26 (2007-2008 season). Dunleavy has fluctuated between 12.51 and 17.27. This season OBVIOUSLY Kaman is the better player, but throughout their careers it's been pretty close.

People are making this out to be OUTRAGEOUS, when in reality it's not as one-sided as you might think. There are big risks on both sides, but people need to take a step back and realize their analysis of Kaman is over an 9 game period.

Again my overall thought, we get a HUGE upgrade at SF, and we take a step back on the offensive side of the ball, but again, a step up on the defensive side (Kaman is averageing 1.67 blocks, Hibert, 2.67). We become a better defensive team, and with Thorton gone, a more unselfish team, and we include another playmaker and a guy who does the small things.

clipperloyal11
Clipper All-Star
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a trade that I would love

Kaman for diaw

kaman for prince

i see your point about how kaman will most likely not keep this up and how it would be a great idea to trade him while his value is high and he will never be the type of player you can go to late in games. well diaw and prince have been in high pressure situations and they have delivered in crunch time. I would prefer diaw since he's the type that can start an offense and hes a good defender. prince is also a good defender but has a slightly better shot than diaw. I would be very happy with either of them and if we trade for one of them, im sure we can get more from them like maybe will bynum or gerald henderson and some picks.

the most important thing about prince and diaw: THEY KNOW HOW TO WIN

ClipFit
Clipper Starter
Posts: 328

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I see you idea there clipperloyal, however when i looked at both those teams, they just don't have room for kaman (bobcats have 3 centers) or they would not make the trade (Piston - i don't see the pistons trading Prince), I don't see them making that deal. I would love prince though, and Prince for Kaman and our trade exception from Q.Rich

clipperloyal11
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dude it doesn't matter about how much he played before last season. He's coming off a major injury from last season and its very likely his knees don't hold up. He'll be turning thirty and that also doesn't help the cause. And bringing Hibbert here wouldn't be that necessary since we already have Jordan. We could do a whole lot better than jr, Hibbert, and brown.

clippersfan85
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I totally agree. I like the ideas of Diaw or Prince for Kaman.

I really think getting a player like Battier from Houston for Kaman. To make the numbers work I had Brian Cook and Battier to the Clippers for Kaman. Cook is an expiring contract also and Battier has one more season on his contract.

SamMays
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4003
votes: 53

The more I hear about these potential Kaman trades, the more I want to keep Dunleavy as our GM. Diaw? Prince? For Kaman? Kaman played at near all-star level just two years ago and is playing better now... Diaw isn't even a consistant starter. Prince's stock has fallen way off the last two years...

If those trades were proposed, the rival GM's would have to wear a mask.

ClipfanSince88
CTB MVP X1
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^^^ The trade proposals are all the more remarkable considering that a quality center is the hardest commodity to come by in the league these days. Just because Kaman might not be good enough to carry us to the playoffs or a championship, doesn't mean he's not very valuable and worth keeping. I think it will ultimately be easier for us to find a quality 3 than it would to replace what Kaman is giving us now, especially considering Jordan's production thus far and Camby's age.

phaded21
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I would keep the team we have now just to see how they play when they are all healthy. I think the team we have now could be very good, but we have to wait till everyone's back. If they can't get things rolling then, then I would make a move, but I didn't really like the trade ideas.

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