Why do we love Al Thornton so much, honest question

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Deoudes59
Clipper D-League Pickup
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He was a -17 tonight. Does this guy just not play defense? Or was this a rare night?

What about his game makes this guy even a part-time starter?

Aside from 'we drafted him'? Did you see his college highlights? or somehow he's considered part of the Griffin, Gordon, Kaman future?

This is an honest question, forgive the tone of this message, I just see this guy getting a free pass on the board from a lot of guys (who know more about the Clips than I).

clipboard
Clipper All-Star
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His potential isn't worth the wait.

clipperloyal11
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I guess its just because we drafted him, he's a hard worker, and can make a nice play here and there. The fact that he's already 26 is a downer. If he were around BG and EJ's age at around 22 or 23, he would definitely be part of our future since he would have a lot of time to grow. But 26 is almost a veteran's age so I'm pretty much giving up on Al becoming part of our future. I'm thinking he'll be nothing more than a role player (maybe sixth man) in this league.

Icecoldclipper
CTB MVP X2
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Still a worth while 6th man just not going to work as a starter on THIS team. With Baron not being a decent shooter we need two shooters on the wings and things get crowded which makes forced shots happen.

clipperstown
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cause he's so freaking athletic. if only the guy had an ounce of common sense he could be a very special talent.

Deoudes59
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i see... i suppose the consensus its the players fault at this point... not the man in the suit (Dunleavy)?

i wish there was a site where I could see the +/- (per game) for individual players. -17 is absurd on a night where the Clippers by all accounts could have taken the Celtics.

toohipcliptoslip
CTB MVP X1
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Everyone remembers a couple of years ago when we thought he was a 20ppg guy. He ain't. His game has improved but not nearly to our expectations. In otherwords he's trade bait unless he starts hitting his jumpers and can be a reliable shooter, even then maybe bye bye. He does need an IQ transplant

clipper*joe
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Deoudes59 wrote:
clipperstown wrote:
cause he's so freaking athletic. if only the guy had an ounce of common sense he could be a very special talent.

i see... i suppose the consensus its the players fault at this point... not the man in the suit (Dunleavy)?

i wish there was a site where I could see the +/- (per game) for individual players. -17 is absurd on a night where the Clippers by all accounts could have taken the Celtics.

There is. All you have to do is go to NBA.com and and look up the player. It's in the profile.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/al_thornton/index.html

Al Thornton's EFF is +10.60 per game.

You can also compare players by using the AUTOTRADER's "compare player" option see how he fares against another player in the league. It's on the right side of the profile in a yellow box. Just use the drop box to pick the team and the player.

Here are the other clippers' EFF ratings:

Rasual Butler: + 9.77

Eric Gordon: +14.03

Baron Davis: +18.45

Marcus Camby: +20.91

Chris Kaman: +20.55

Icecoldclipper
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9428
votes: 20

Thornton has to pick up on defense his weak side isn't strong enough to make up for how bad he is getting beat out there on his man defense.

sunnydrew3
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clipper*joe wrote:
Deoudes59 wrote:
clipperstown wrote:
cause he's so freaking athletic. if only the guy had an ounce of common sense he could be a very special talent.

i see... i suppose the consensus its the players fault at this point... not the man in the suit (Dunleavy)?

i wish there was a site where I could see the +/- (per game) for individual players. -17 is absurd on a night where the Clippers by all accounts could have taken the Celtics.

There is. All you have to do is go to NBA.com and and look up the player. It's in the profile.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/al_thornton/index.html

Al Thornton's EFF is +10.60 per game.

You can also compare players by using the AUTOTRADER's "compare player" option see how he fares against another player in the league. It's on the right side of the profile in a yellow box. Just use the drop box to pick the team and the player.

Here are the other clippers' EFF ratings:

Rasual Butler: + 9.77

Eric Gordon: +14.03

Baron Davis: +18.45

Marcus Camby: +20.91

Chris Kaman: +20.55

Is EFF rating the same as +/-? I thought EFF was similar to PER that the ESPN site has- its a way to value the production of the player based on points and rebounds per game.

If you go to the link below, its got the overall season +/- for each clipper:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus ... m=Clippers

Judging by that, Al and Telfair are by far our worst in that category, and interestingly enough our only player with a positive +/- for the season is Craig Smith.

This next link I have is for 5 team combos- looks like our typical starting lineup (Camby, Kaman, Davis and Gordon) with Butler has a better overall +/- than when Al starts with that same group.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus ... m=Clippers

clipper*joe
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sunnydrew3 wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
Deoudes59 wrote:
clipperstown wrote:
cause he's so freaking athletic. if only the guy had an ounce of common sense he could be a very special talent.

i see... i suppose the consensus its the players fault at this point... not the man in the suit (Dunleavy)?

i wish there was a site where I could see the +/- (per game) for individual players. -17 is absurd on a night where the Clippers by all accounts could have taken the Celtics.

There is. All you have to do is go to NBA.com and and look up the player. It's in the profile.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/al_thornton/index.html

Al Thornton's EFF is +10.60 per game.

You can also compare players by using the AUTOTRADER's "compare player" option see how he fares against another player in the league. It's on the right side of the profile in a yellow box. Just use the drop box to pick the team and the player.

Here are the other clippers' EFF ratings:

Rasual Butler: + 9.77

Eric Gordon: +14.03

Baron Davis: +18.45

Marcus Camby: +20.91

Chris Kaman: +20.55

Is EFF rating the same as +/-? I thought EFF was similar to PER that the ESPN site has- its a way to value the production of the player based on points and rebounds per game.

If you go to the link below, its got the overall season +/- for each clipper:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus ... m=Clippers

Judging by that, Al and Telfair are by far our worst in that category, and interestingly enough our only player with a positive +/- for the season is Craig Smith.

This next link I have is for 5 team combos- looks like our typical starting lineup (Camby, Kaman, Davis and Gordon) with Butler has a better overall +/- than when Al starts with that same group.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus ... m=Clippers

+/- is the same.

last night he was -17 but his average is + 10.60

ekker3
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 7256
votes: 80

al thornton is marcus camby in a more athletic body. sure, he makes some questionable decisions but he's doing all the little things like going after rebounds like a beast and diving for loose balls. dude has crazy heart.

Icecoldclipper
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 9428
votes: 20

Easier to cover man defense as a big and when we do face 4's with range(Lewis) or or physical play man play (Landry) we get burned. As a perimeter defender you don't get tested in these areas sometimes like Camby you get tested all the time espcially as a SF when SF are suppose to have strength and speed or quickness. Thornton has problems keeping up or just staying focused on his man. Noticed last night DJ yelled at him when a defender got by him with easy. If Thorton wants to be that weak-side guy on the wing he has to be able to read the floor and know how to beat screens to catch his man and block or contest shots from behind more often. That or the team has to form a better Boston Celtics type defense where recovery is there behind Thornton and he can take away players going toward the rim on the pass off but even then Thorton has to learn to master the rotations.

sunnydrew3
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Location: Irvine, CA
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clipper*joe wrote:
sunnydrew3 wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
Deoudes59 wrote:
clipperstown wrote:
cause he's so freaking athletic. if only the guy had an ounce of common sense he could be a very special talent.

i see... i suppose the consensus its the players fault at this point... not the man in the suit (Dunleavy)?

i wish there was a site where I could see the +/- (per game) for individual players. -17 is absurd on a night where the Clippers by all accounts could have taken the Celtics.

There is. All you have to do is go to NBA.com and and look up the player. It's in the profile.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/al_thornton/index.html

Al Thornton's EFF is +10.60 per game.

You can also compare players by using the AUTOTRADER's "compare player" option see how he fares against another player in the league. It's on the right side of the profile in a yellow box. Just use the drop box to pick the team and the player.

Here are the other clippers' EFF ratings:

Rasual Butler: + 9.77

Eric Gordon: +14.03

Baron Davis: +18.45

Marcus Camby: +20.91

Chris Kaman: +20.55

Is EFF rating the same as +/-? I thought EFF was similar to PER that the ESPN site has- its a way to value the production of the player based on points and rebounds per game.

If you go to the link below, its got the overall season +/- for each clipper:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus ... m=Clippers

Judging by that, Al and Telfair are by far our worst in that category, and interestingly enough our only player with a positive +/- for the season is Craig Smith.

This next link I have is for 5 team combos- looks like our typical starting lineup (Camby, Kaman, Davis and Gordon) with Butler has a better overall +/- than when Al starts with that same group.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus ... m=Clippers

+/- is the same.

last night he was -17 but his average is + 10.60

Im pretty sure they are different. Im not the best with these stats, but was looking them both up and it seems they are different. The efficiency refers to the formula: Efficiency rating: ((PTS + REB + AST + STL + BLK) - ((FGA - FGM) + (FTA - FTM) + TO)) / G. When it comes to +/-, NBA.com states this as: "The AutoTrader.com +/- stat shows the power of teamwork. It's a way of showing the best-engineered/best combination of players on the court. The +/- stat is a statistic that looks at the point differential when players are both in and out of the game, to see how the team performs with various combinations. The +/- stat can look at a variety of combinations including the best two player, three player and even five player combinations for each game."

I've heard it before that Al has a pretty bad +/-. A bad +/- isnt necessarily saying the player is bad, but that the the team is generally outscored while that player is on the floor. Of course, if Al is constantly in games when the team is enduring a big run from the other team, his +/- is going to look worse than it might be. That said, I'm pretty sure his +/- isnt the greatest. His efficiency rating, however, isnt that bad. I thinks its okay for the role he has had this season. Also, if you look at the top efficiency ratings for the season, Lebron averages around 30. If efficiency was the same as +/- stat, then that would be saying the Cavs outscore their opponents by an average of 30 points when he is on the floor. While I'm sure the Cavs do outscore opponents with LeBron in the floor, an average on +30 is a bit high.

Generally speaking, both do give some insight on how efficient the player is, but technically while Al does have a postive EFF rating, I'm pretty sure his +/- rating is negative so far this year.

clipper*joe
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sunnydrew3 wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
sunnydrew3 wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
Deoudes59 wrote:
clipperstown wrote:
cause he's so freaking athletic. if only the guy had an ounce of common sense he could be a very special talent.

i see... i suppose the consensus its the players fault at this point... not the man in the suit (Dunleavy)?

i wish there was a site where I could see the +/- (per game) for individual players. -17 is absurd on a night where the Clippers by all accounts could have taken the Celtics.

There is. All you have to do is go to NBA.com and and look up the player. It's in the profile.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/al_thornton/index.html

Al Thornton's EFF is +10.60 per game.

You can also compare players by using the AUTOTRADER's "compare player" option see how he fares against another player in the league. It's on the right side of the profile in a yellow box. Just use the drop box to pick the team and the player.

Here are the other clippers' EFF ratings:

Rasual Butler: + 9.77

Eric Gordon: +14.03

Baron Davis: +18.45

Marcus Camby: +20.91

Chris Kaman: +20.55

Is EFF rating the same as +/-? I thought EFF was similar to PER that the ESPN site has- its a way to value the production of the player based on points and rebounds per game.

If you go to the link below, its got the overall season +/- for each clipper:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus ... m=Clippers

Judging by that, Al and Telfair are by far our worst in that category, and interestingly enough our only player with a positive +/- for the season is Craig Smith.

This next link I have is for 5 team combos- looks like our typical starting lineup (Camby, Kaman, Davis and Gordon) with Butler has a better overall +/- than when Al starts with that same group.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus ... m=Clippers

+/- is the same.

last night he was -17 but his average is + 10.60

Im pretty sure they are different. Im not the best with these stats, but was looking them both up and it seems they are different. The efficiency refers to the formula: Efficiency rating: ((PTS + REB + AST + STL + BLK) - ((FGA - FGM) + (FTA - FTM) + TO)) / G. When it comes to +/-, NBA.com states this as: "The AutoTrader.com +/- stat shows the power of teamwork. It's a way of showing the best-engineered/best combination of players on the court. The +/- stat is a statistic that looks at the point differential when players are both in and out of the game, to see how the team performs with various combinations. The +/- stat can look at a variety of combinations including the best two player, three player and even five player combinations for each game."

I've heard it before that Al has a pretty bad +/-. A bad +/- isnt necessarily saying the player is bad, but that the the team is generally outscored while that player is on the floor. Of course, if Al is constantly in games when the team is enduring a big run from the other team, his +/- is going to look worse than it might be. That said, I'm pretty sure his +/- isnt the greatest. His efficiency rating, however, isnt that bad. I thinks its okay for the role he has had this season. Also, if you look at the top efficiency ratings for the season, Lebron averages around 30. If efficiency was the same as +/- stat, then that would be saying the Cavs outscore their opponents by an average of 30 points when he is on the floor. While I'm sure the Cavs do outscore opponents with LeBron in the floor, an average on +30 is a bit high.

Generally speaking, both do give some insight on how efficient the player is, but technically while Al does have a postive EFF rating, I'm pretty sure his +/- rating is negative so far this year.

You're right.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/

journeyman
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 3835
Location: Los Angeles
votes: 40

Thornton's a great iso scorer who can get you some boards as well. He's got great athleticism and he's more clutch than we give him credit for. And considering his contract, he's a pretty good bargain at the moment.

MannyA
Clipper Starter
Posts: 371

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Who loves Al Thorton? Everybody that follows the Clippers know that the small forward position is our weakest link. Thornton already lost his starting job at our weakest position so how high can anybody be on him?

los_831
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 6
votes: 0

i still think AL should be think in the fast breaks and go to the rim...i think the dunce ruined it for him

G-Man04
Clipper 6th Man
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votes: 7

Obviously his athleticism is off the charts and I think he tries to rely on it too much, particularly on defense. I think that with the athleticism he has there is no reason he shouldn't be a very capable (if not exceptional) defender. He gets himself out of position and again tries to rely on his athletic ability to try and recover. And, as I believe someone posted earlier, he doesn't read the floor well enough (yet) to be a strong weak-side defender and is often in "scramble mode" when the offense reverses the ball because he is so far out of position.

Offensively, he is a very poor passer and his ball-handling isn't much better. He settles for too many jumpers, and even then he rarely gets his feet set properly before shooting and is off balance or fading when he shoots. Notice how many times he will start to penetrate and takes one or two dribbles (usually to his right) and pulls-up for an off-balance jumper even when he had his man beat. When he posts up, he often seems slow and indecisive when making his move and relies on out-jumping the defender or fading to get his shot off. When he is decisive and makes a quick move he is much more effective - as most players are. Also, because of his suspect passing ability the ball often stops with him...either with a shot (sometimes ill-advised) or a turnover. He's also very streaky and when he starts "feeling it" he can definitely score with the best of them.

I think that Al can become a much better and more consistent player both offensively and defensively with some patience and coaching. Athletically, things came so easy to him in college that he developed some bad habits and is paying the price, particularly now that teams are figuring out his weaknesses. He can certainly play at this level, but he might be a better fit for another team that wants to use him as their primary scoring option.

johnch
Clipper Rookie
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to me, I have confidence in Al. Especially in the beginning of the season. He just seemed to really be in the game. I know he makes a few fumbles and misses here and there, but I really like how he seems to want to get better. Listening to him in interviews, he seems like the one who most desires to get better.

But right now, he's in a little slump.

LABraves4Life
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Dude, you officially win the award for dumbest comment ever! You are sooo wrong its not even funny. Actually, it is a little funny anyone could believe Al Thorton is Marcus Camby in a more athletic body.

Thornton is a selfish, only plays offense, worst +/- on team and all this despite going up against other teams reserves half the games he has played!!

While Camby is an unselfish, plays amazing defense, one of best +/- on team and all this while being 36 years old playing against only other teams starters.

With that said, I think the Clippers need to trade Thornton and cut their losses. I also think they should trade Camby and sell high while he is on fire this season. Camby is not under contract next year, and I don't see anyway the Clippers can lock in a top free agent and keep Camby. Unless Camby has told the Clippers he plans to stay with them for far less money.

SeahawkClip
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I know we hve discussed this before but the reason I have some hate toward al is his shot selection.. It seems about 80 percent of the time e gets the ball, he shoots a turnaround fade away mid ranged jumpshot.... I mean come on is that the eat posession we can have??? Why doesn't te coach yell at him and say stop taking stupid f'n shots or u won't play at all!!!

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