Trade Deadline: Setting the Stage

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emplay
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Hey all,

Here’s my comprehensive take on the trade deadline/summer 2010/luxury tax/etc.

Trade Deadline: Setting the Stage

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=15092

I touch on a wide range of subjects including Clippers/Lakers stuff!

Thanks,

Eric

PS " I’ll be hosting my weekly chat at 1:00pm today Pacific " send in questions now!

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=740

clipperboy24
CTB MVP X1
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iggy does sound like a good option for the clipps.

The only part i realy disagree on is this

"New York might be able to keep Lee and add LeBron - but from there it's minimum contracts to round out a relatively unimpressive roster where Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler and Lee are the big draws."

How would a team with Lebron, Lee, Chandler and Gallinari not be an instant cntender? Lebron has never played with a dominant big (in his prime) and Galinari would be sooting like 12 three pointers a game and Wilson chandler is a very good player as well.

jcdigital
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^id say tho they are decent...id say have WAAAAAY better players to put around him although looking at how much it gives us to round out the roster...it looks like we would be resigning JamesOn Curry and some of his other teammates cuz we would basically be broke! lol

clipperboy24
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totally agree

sunnydrew3
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Couldnt we fill out our roster with vets who would be signing for the vet minimum? I remember Boston 2 years ago signed guys like PJ Brown and Sam Cassel once we bought him out at really cheap contracts.

Thats what can be a nice thing when you're out of money but have a killer lineup 1-6 or 1-7; decent vets will be willing to sign with you in hopes of getting a title. Im not sure which older guys are free agents this summer, and of course we would need to get LeBron or another big name here first, but I could see us grabbing someone decent to fill out the roster

MannyA
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Repped High Quality Post

I would love for the Clippers to trade for Iggy! I still believe Lebron would be the best thing for the Clippers even if we had to sign JamesOn, a couple of his D-league teammates and Lisa Leslie to complete the roster, yeah, Lebron is that good! The problem with waiting for Lebron is that there is a slim to none chance he actually signs with the Clips. It would be safer to make a deal (for someone worth it, not for just anyone) now than to wait, get rejected by James and end up with someone like T. Prince. But if they decide to wait and try for Bron, I won't be mad. If they trade for Iggy, I won't be mad. If they trade for C. Butler (who's on the decline), Felton, Nocioni, or some of the other names I've heard get thrown around by some of the people on this site, I'll be pissed.

Icecoldclipper
CTB MVP X2
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Next two game would help a little determine where we should go. Clippers are a strange team right now we are good enough to just try to finish the season with a strong record but we are not good enough for the playoffs. I'll take the wins over another crappy seaosn because when it comes to free agents when two teams have cap and one team has a better chance of being a respectable team the player will take the money and the wins over just the money.

Don't think the Clippers will know should they go on a expiring fire sale until the deadline and we know what our record stands at that point. If we are one or two games under or over .500 I think we stick together and try to finish strong. If we are 4 games under like right now Camby and others may be gone.

emplay
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don't assume lebron's only motivation is joining a team that can contend

MannyA
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First of all, Great Article Eric! Answered about 100 questions I had for this summers free agency frenzy. Secondly, what SHOULD we assume?

emplay
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votes: 7

the clippers have a lot of flexiblity -if the right opportunity presents itself - they'll move on it.

clipperboy24
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He has said he wants to be the richest man in the world = anything goes

jcdigital
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I know we have put a lot of our second round picks in trades in the past seasons....does anyone know how many we actually have traded away? and also when we will actually have a second round draft pick????

MannyA
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They are conditional 2nd round picks. Most are top 55 protected so unless we are one of the top teams record wise, we keep the pick and the other team get nothing. Also, it doesn't carry over. If the other team doesn't get the pick, they completely miss out. I don't think anyone should worry about these 2nd round picks that get thrown around in trades. They usually stay on the team sending it out.

checkdafool10
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this iguodala idea intrigues me but i don't know if it will be worth it. cuz Iggy is a true SG and we really need a stud SF

SamMays
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4041
votes: 54

Because of iggy's salary, I'm not in favor of it... The guy will be making 17-million in a couple years... He's just not worth that kind of money. There is a new economy in the NBA. Others players just as good will be available at relative bargain prices.

MannyA
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What stud small forwards are out there? Which are actual possibilities?

Icecoldclipper
CTB MVP X2
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Iggy needs to pick up his shooting before we even think of going to him. We need a SF that can spread the floor and play defense

MannyA
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Iggy is 6'6" and built pretty strong. He is a great defender, super athletic and could easily play the 3 spot. The reason I don't see it happening is because it's too much long term salary. In a couple years we would have 3 player ( Iggy, Baron and Kaman) getting big money and Gordon and Griffin due for big raises. Jordan too if he improves as expected. I'm pretty sure stingy Sterling is very aware of that and would not approve a trade like this. Imagine our starting five though if it did happen, sick!

clippersforlife100
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their is a rumor going on that clippers are looking to send camby to portland for steve blake and travis outlaw. personally, i think we can get better. i mean we already have enough point guards and outlaw<camby so thats my take

MannyA
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Probably somebody in Portland made that up cause thats useless to us. I also remember somebody from Portland asking in one of the hoopworld chats if the Clippers would consider that trade and the responce was that the Clippers could do a lot better.

CLiPPzWeRD42
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I'm really starting to warm to the Iggy trade. The stats that really stand out for me:

RPG: 6.9

APG: 5.7

SPG: 1.9

Those are great numbers for the SF position (far better than either of our main SFs). His outside shooting isn't great (32.4%), but comparing him to Butler (33.2%), it doesn't seem too bad. We could do:

Camby + Thornton

for

Iguodala + Brezec

After reading Eric's post, and really thinking about it, this move makes a lot of sense. It's very possible that we could miss out on all of the key free agents this summer. Not only that, with this trade, it gives us our MLE, Bi-Annual Exception, and let's us keep our TPEs this summer, to use to keep/build up the bench. We can keep guys like Butler and Craig Smith around, maybe bring back Camby over the summer, and possibly even add someone like T-Mac. Our lineup next season would be great...

Kaman / Camby / Jordan

Griffin / Smith

Iguodala / McGrady

Gordon / Butler

Baron / Telfair

Add in our draft picks and a couple of minimum free agents, and we're set

Izlix
Clipper 6th Man
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how about we just go ahead and trade our bench for Joe Johnson... at least we'll be guaranteed cap space this summer Very Happy

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=ykeb36a

Baron Davis/Bobby Brown

Eric Gordon

Joe Johnson/Rasual Butler

Marcus Camby

Chris Kaman

looks good huh? lol

TheDude
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In regards to the Clips, Eric is saying what I've been thinking for months. We are better off making a trade at the deadline than waiting for the summer with insufficient money to pay one of the big names. Not sure about Iguodala but the trade that was proposed a while ago as follows is extremely attractive to me....And it's possible we could work in there that they must buy out Camby in this deal allowing him to come back and sign for the rest of the season.

Wiz gets: Camby, Smith, Ricky, Mardy, and Al

We get: Antawn Jamison and Caron Butler

They buy out Camby and we have him back within the week. Essentially we get two all-stars for some scrubs and Al. And we would be able to bring Camby back at whatever price is necessary, keep the trade exception (maybe reaquire Craig with this immediately), keep the rights to resign Sool without affecting cap, midlevel, and biannual would be available. Takes the guesswork out of 2010 and gives a monster of a lineup NOW.

Why would the Wiz do this? They're cooked. Time to rebuild. If they trade these two guys away for expirings and are able to void Zero's contract, they would have THEE most cap space of any team this summer.

Blatche, Mcgee, and Nick Young would be the only guys signed for next year at a combined salary of a little more than 6mil. They would have 48million in cap space. Talk about guys colluding to go to the same teams? They could afford Bron, Wade, and Bosh with that kind of cap space. Overnight transformation for them!

Our roster would be like this for the remainder of the season:

Baron, Bassy, Brown

Eric, Sool

Caron, Trade Exception, Novak

Jamison, Camby, Skinner

Kaman, DJ

Next Year:

Baron, Bassy, Draft Pick

Eric, Sool

Caron, Midlevel(Manu?)

Jamison, Blake

Kaman, Camby, DJ

Front court is simply dominant. Back court is better even before the draft or any free agent pickups because Sool is second string SG instead of starting SF.

I'm convinced this is the best way to go, even if they don't agree to buyout Camby and send him back.

jcdigital
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1776

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wait iggy is a SF they just had him at SG because they had no one to play SG but now with AI there he is able to play his original position and everyone has been saying he has been playing better now that he gets to play SF again

Izlix
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omg i would drool. i think i might like that better than getting lebron.

having 3-4 elite players & 4 great backups would be much better than 1 mega player and some goons to watch him.

clippersblue
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Posts: 329
votes: 5

Maybe we should cash in our chips and send Eric Gordon, Al Thorton, Mardy Collins, for Monta Ellis. I think we need to do something different. We need a go to guy and Ellis can score at will. The trade is dead even. Then we can trade our expiring contract of Camby with Minnesotta's pick for David West and put him at small forward.

Baron

Ellis

West

Kaman

Griffin

resign

Butler and Smith

Justification: Goldent State wants to start over, they get equal value back. We give a good pick to New Orleans and they don't lose face when they give us David West because their fighting the luxury cap. It's doable and reasonable for all teams involved.

clipper*joe
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If I knew Eric has no more upside, I'd jump at the deal. Too bad I sold my crystal ball in a yard sale a month ago. Very Happy

LAWLERSLAW
Clipper D-League Pickup
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votes: 1

Baron Davis & Marcus Camby ---- Jose Calderon & Chris Bosh

i did this on trade machine and it worked

Not sure if anyone has already suggested this trade, but i feel both teams would benefit from this trade. Clippers get an all-star in bosh and a solid true PG in calderon (just what the clippers need...a distributor who can make the three ball and shoot over 90% from the free throw line). Raptors "get something" (baron davis) in return for bosh rather than him bolting out of there in the summer and also an expiring contract in camby which is always good trade bait. Then the clippers have 3 scoring bigs, WHEN one goes down, the others can step it up. Opinions?

illastrate
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That's not a bad idea at all. Monta is a legitimate 25ppg guy and the perfect running mate for Baron. As much as I like EJ, this is pretty tempting.

rollingkiwi92
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illastrate wrote:
clippersblue wrote:
Maybe we should cash in our chips and send Eric Gordon, Al Thorton, Mardy Collins, for Monta Ellis. I think we need to do something different. We need a go to guy and Ellis can score at will. The trade is dead even. Then we can trade our expiring contract of Camby with Minnesotta's pick for David West and put him at small forward.

Baron

Ellis

West

Kaman

Griffin

resign

Butler and Smith

Justification: Goldent State wants to start over, they get equal value back. We give a good pick to New Orleans and they don't lose face when they give us David West because their fighting the luxury cap. It's doable and reasonable for all teams involved.

That's not a bad idea at all. Monta is a legitimate 25ppg guy and the perfect running mate for Baron. As much as I like EJ, this is pretty tempting.

im sorry, but i can't sign off on this. i know how much of a beast ellis is, but he has terrible character. he's not much of a leader, he's undersized (at least Gordon is bigger and has better on ball defense), and he can't shoot which would lead even to a bigger problem with our perimeter offense (we need more threes).

we shouldn't give up on gordon, he has way higher upside than ellis. i just think he's going to a sophmore slump. he's should get better next year. i think we should get rid of baron. seriously, i don't think we can go anywhere with a pg as enigmatic as baron is. we need a pg whose bigger than baron, and could distribute.

we need a big pg so that it would be better on defense with ej guarding the PG ang the bigger pg guardng the sg.

some pg's i think could do us good:

  1. kirk hinrich

  2. john wall (pipe dream)

  3. ricky rubio (another pipe dream but not as improbable as john wall)

  4. andre miller (probably wont want to be traded here)

  5. Randy foye

-okay, so there aren't many big pg's that are as good as baron, and i know baron does beastly defense when motivated, but the dude's getting older and older. theres no scenario where i can see him with us years later. and i think these guys are good stable point guards. ONLY IF WE COULD GET JOHN WALL!

anyways, im also in favor of us getting iggy. i think that dudes a complete beast. he may be a little overpaid, but his all-around game is very nice. he's also a good defender givindg us someone to guard the opponents star player. his shot may not look that good, but its better than thorntons. he's athletic, plays above the rim, and relatively young. it dosen't seem like a bad deal to me if we trade camby and thronton for iggy and filler.

and thus ending my rant. Very Happy

SamMays
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4041
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It's time to rebuild and get younger... Obviously, we're not playing for this year. We might, marginally, be playing for next year, but the reality is, we're playing for two and three years from now... The guys that need to go are Baron and Camby.

I don't know how much we can get for them. Even if it's a salary dump, that would mean 22-million we'd have to spend on their replacements. If used wisely, that would buy us many more wins than we'd get out of Baron and Camby....

Icecoldclipper
CTB MVP X2
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I still have hope for Baron I want to see him in a different offense where we just don't post up Kaman every trip or every player runs iso. Camby can go at the deadline for a pick or prosepct.

LAC_12
Clipper All-Star
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I dont believe people are dismissing the hardest worker on our team... its so sad I cannot even speak about it.

Derty_Bert
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I feel you LAC, guys talk about getting younger we don't need to get younger we have the right balance of young and old players. Every team needs vets if we got rid of Baron and Camby we wouldn't that would leave Butler and Kaman and netiher one are leaders or lead by example.

Derty_Bert
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This looks good at a second glance I love EJ but Ellis and BD back together would be nice.

SamMays
CTB MVP X1
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Ellis can't shoot from range. Baron can't either. Griffin can't either. That would leave Butler as your starting SF and only 3-point threat and he's no Ray Allen. We'd have no outside threats. Teams would pack the paint and we'd score 82 points a game... We need inside/outside balance and Baron and Ellis play too much alike, except that Ellis can't pass.

Disaster of a trade idea. We need a SF who is a great shooter from range and a great backup PG... Do only that much and dump Dunleavy, and we are a playoff team next year... And not necessarily just an 8th seed.

clippersblue
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Logistical comment back to clippersam, not an argument. You say Ellis can't shoot, are you sure. I do agree he would not fit with Kaman if he can't shoot yet everytime I watch this guy play, nobody can stop him from scoring the ball. He might not be the best guy for creating space for Kaman, but Baron and Ellis both knocked off Dallas and doesn't Ellis average 25 points a game with a high field goal percentage? We need another go to guy beside Kaman.

LAC_12
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In other words we need a go to guy...

SamMays
CTB MVP X1
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Don't get me wrong. I like Ellis... But he's a quick attacker. He gets to the hoop, sort of like a young Baron Davis. That Golden State team that beat Dallas played small with lots of good outside shooters, which makes it tough to pack the paint... As I recall even Baron was shooting well that week...

If we got Ellis, we'd need a tall PG who can really shoot to make up for Ellis's shortcomings as a shooter and defender... He's a small SG... If we had a different PG than Baron, he might be fine... Not sure who that guy would be... D. Williams, obviously...

NUMB3RFIFTY
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SamMays wrote:
clippersblue wrote:
Logistical comment back to clippersam, not an argument. You say Ellis can't shoot, are you sure. I do agree he would not fit with Kaman if he can't shoot yet everytime I watch this guy play, nobody can stop him from scoring the ball. He might not be the best guy for creating space for Kaman, but Baron and Ellis both knocked off Dallas and doesn't Ellis average 25 points a game with a high field goal percentage? We need another go to guy beside Kaman.

Don't get me wrong. I like Ellis... But he's a quick attacker. He gets to the hoop, sort of like a young Baron Davis. That Golden State team that beat Dallas played small with lots of good outside shooters, which makes it tough to pack the paint... As I recall even Baron was shooting well that week...

If we got Ellis, we'd need a tall PG who can really shoot to make up for Ellis's shortcomings as a shooter and defender... He's a small SG... If we had a different PG than Baron, he might be fine... Not sure who that guy would be... D. Williams, obviously...

We would be in great shape right now if Shaun Livingston worked out.

MrB
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Repped High Quality Post

I am really not for any trades as long as Dunleavy is still coach because it really wont matter who we get as long as he is still here. We lose either way in my opinion. Aside from that I agree with a few of you that have said we need outside shooters. We have no 3 point shooters that can consistently hit the shot, which is needed to stretch the defense. Novak doesn't play so whether he can shoot or not he doesnt matter because Dunleavy doesn't use him. We need a shooter that will play.

LAC_12
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^ agreed. First move should be coach... but even if its not the FIRST FIRST move it should be a move that needs to be done NO MATTER WHAT.

toohipcliptoslip
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Unfortunately the coach is the General Manager. Will he get players who don't fit his style? Does he know what he needs when he can't coach what we've got. ?

SamMays
CTB MVP X1
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Yeah... I loved Shaun Livingston. He had an intelligence for the game that just can't be taught. His outside shot was improving... I think if he hadn't gotten hurt, he would have been one of the best PGs in the game by now...

LAC_12
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Posts: 2032
Location: West Coast
votes: 18

Great point Toohip... Makes me wonder if he made such a team on accident. He has the peices to a running and explosive team, however he is THE PROBLEM in letting loose that style of play... maybe he accidentally attained sucess as a GM. Besides much of his drafting was not real GENIUS moves, but some subtle role players he brought in - who have surprised.

ClipperNationRise
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http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/ ... eal_allen/

Ray Allen?

clippersfan85
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Was looking on trade machine at potential Ray Allen trades. Camby, Ricky Davis, and Rasual Butler would get it done money wise. I think Ray would provide a much needed 3 point threat. Worst case we could get Ray on loan and still have our cap space intact.

SamMays
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4041
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Ray Allen is 35 years old... We're a team that's building for the future. Our best time is 2 or 3 years out... Ray Allen, as great a player has he's been, is not an answer for us... Gordon is our 2... Though he's slumping of late, he'll rebound. We don't need to take his job away from him while we have other, more pressing needs.

CLiPPzWeRD42
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That's a helluva trade! Not sure that they'd do it though.. Maybe if we included this year's 1st rounder?

Perhaps we could get T-Mac with the Mid-Level, too.. Just another idea.

lakerh8r
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CLiPPzWeRD42 wrote:
TheDude wrote:
In regards to the Clips, Eric is saying what I've been thinking for months. We are better off making a trade at the deadline than waiting for the summer with insufficient money to pay one of the big names. Not sure about Iguodala but the trade that was proposed a while ago as follows is extremely attractive to me....And it's possible we could work in there that they must buy out Camby in this deal allowing him to come back and sign for the rest of the season.

Wiz gets: Camby, Smith, Ricky, Mardy, and Al

We get: Antawn Jamison and Caron Butler

They buy out Camby and we have him back within the week. Essentially we get two all-stars for some scrubs and Al. And we would be able to bring Camby back at whatever price is necessary, keep the trade exception (maybe reaquire Craig with this immediately), keep the rights to resign Sool without affecting cap, midlevel, and biannual would be available. Takes the guesswork out of 2010 and gives a monster of a lineup NOW.

Why would the Wiz do this? They're cooked. Time to rebuild. If they trade these two guys away for expirings and are able to void Zero's contract, they would have THEE most cap space of any team this summer.

Blatche, Mcgee, and Nick Young would be the only guys signed for next year at a combined salary of a little more than 6mil. They would have 48million in cap space. Talk about guys colluding to go to the same teams? They could afford Bron, Wade, and Bosh with that kind of cap space. Overnight transformation for them!

Our roster would be like this for the remainder of the season:

Baron, Bassy, Brown

Eric, Sool

Caron, Trade Exception, Novak

Jamison, Camby, Skinner

Kaman, DJ

Next Year:

Baron, Bassy, Draft Pick

Eric, Sool

Caron, Midlevel(Manu?)

Jamison, Blake

Kaman, Camby, DJ

Front court is simply dominant. Back court is better even before the draft or any free agent pickups because Sool is second string SG instead of starting SF.

I'm convinced this is the best way to go, even if they don't agree to buyout Camby and send him back.

That's a helluva trade! Not sure that they'd do it though.. Maybe if we included this year's 1st rounder?

Perhaps we could get T-Mac with the Mid-Level, too.. Just another idea.

We should get T-mac...that way Blake Griffin can have some one else to keep him company on the injury player roster

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