A non Clippers fan's opinion on Kaman

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clipperboy24
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So i have a pretty competitive fantasy league i am in and one of my buddies posted this. Seriously all the people who rip on Kaman just try to glean a little bit from this. I didnt edit one bit and my friend genuinely doesnt care for the Clippers but does hate the Lakers (spurs fan). (I am Blake btw):

Blake - sorry, but you have no room to talk after the tin man, in heart and in body, goes for 48 on the all-star-shortened week. But yes, congrats to Kaman. I have never seen a player more maligned by his own fans. I went to one Clippers game and literally half of the Clipper fans spent the whole game ragging on Kaman. He would bust his butt running around trying to get the ball, not come up with it, and then everyone would just rail on him. That's what bonded the Clipper fans there together, was laughing at each others' jokes about how much Kaman sucked and looked like a caveman. So congrats to him for sticking it to them all.

strike
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Thats the whole problems he's running around, when the ball is right in front of him. He puts up good numbers but he just is never aggressive enough to get the rebounds, if you wanna see someone running around getting the ball take a look at camby that guy literally mops the floor

EI_Nino_Jesus
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if kaman could be a beast on the defensive end meaning 10+ rebounds and his old block stats that would be marvelous, but still jokes aside Kaman's earned his spot, sure he needs to work on things but he is getting better which is something we've all noticed, there's still time for him to work on things and after his all star nod I'm sure he's gonna have a great mind set for the rest of the season....i hope

strike
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he has definitely improved his offensive game but his defense has gone down...i wish he was combining his old def and his current offensive except the fake step 20 times...he's gotta mix it up

kamanisafakegerman
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kaman is capable of putting up great numbers, but hes inconsistent and when its most important he seems to come up empty. it just doesnt seem like hes smart enough to know when he needs to take his game to another level and that really hurts the team.

EI_Nino_Jesus
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I do admit one thing lets just pretend we resigned camby and got griffin, they would have rebounds like crazy and it would be understandable for Kaman to have less than ten but he needs to be more consistent on the defensive end and have a more commanding eye on the ball, there's a few if not a lot of times he could have capitalized on several possessions but once again he isn't old he's improving he will be surrounded with a beast of a big in griffin and i wouldn't be surprised if his offensive stats go down like when he co existed with Brand, but who knows

clipperboy24
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At only 8 games in 43 with under 7 boards and 6 out of 43 games with under 16 points, i would definitely say he is not inconsistent. He also has 19 double doubles. He is also on a 27 game streak of scoring in double figures. His defense isnt the best but its not the worst and not horrible.

also in regards to the first comment about chasing the ball you took the writer out of context. He wasnt saying he was running around wild, but running actively trying to make plays. Kaman plays hard and plays well, and what blows me away is how Clippers fans refuse to see it.

A lot of Clippers fans on here seem to want him to be Wilt Chamberlain, or Kareem or any of those people and if he is not they will harp on him. I guarantee if we had Dwight Howard some people on here would be complaining about him. The guy has torn it up for us like very few centers in our franchise ever have. Time to give him respect.

ekker3
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marcus camby is so intent on getting boards that he steals rebounds from others. that's how much he wants it.

with a guy like that around, coupled with the fact that kaman's outside shot leaves him out of rebound range - its completely acceptable that his rebounding numbers are lower.

toohipcliptoslip
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Once he gets warmed up he's pretty consistant.

He has one flaw that keeps him from being GREAT. White Men Can't Jump

I've watched him over and over doing a baby hook when any other center would have dropped the hammer. If you watch, he can only get high enough to get his wrist oner the hoop. He has about a three inch vertical leap. Tonight he had several opportunities under the hoop where any other center would have had multiple facials but he was flat footed. Not faulting him but if he could jump as high as Camby he would had ten more pts at least. EB of old would have bent over a bit and exploded up. Even though he was tripled under the hoop his postions was good enough for Chris to do it. He is now strong enough to get position. There are exercises to buld up his skinny legs.

clipfantoolong
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kaman makes stupid turnovers and fouls. he is good but i do not mind trading him if the deal is right.

Icecoldclipper
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boozer beating Kaman was a terrible response by Kaman to the AllStar selection

SamMays
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If you can't get behind Kaman, why be a Clipper fan? He's clearly our best, most consistent player. He has the respect of coaches and fans around the league.

When coaches game plan for us, who do you think they spend the most time talking about? I'll guarantee you, it's Kaman. He can score inside and outside. He's the only player we have that commands a double team... So while he's making mistakes, have any of you guys noticed that other teams are running two and sometimes three guys at him... And not only is he able to score 20 or so a night, but having him on the team makes it easier for the rest of the guys to get open looks since he commands so much attention.

I understand that this is a fan board and none of us are basketball geniuses, but wow... If you can't tell that Kaman is a hell of a player, then you need to find another sport to follow.

ClipThemOff
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it just proves alot of clips fans are a bunch of ******* who rip on their best players for the past years and now Kaman is getting the heat because he turns the ball over after getting double and even trippled team...


SamMays
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Boozer didn't beat Kaman... The Jazz beat the Clippers... They did it because they run their offensive sets incredibly well, finding ways to get Boozer the ball at exactly the right time and place. Did you even notice the high level of interior passing the Jazz employ, the intricate interior picks and backcuts?... That's why they win 50 games every year... It's not because Boozer outplayed Kaman. It's because their system and their coaching are ten times better than ours and their players are mature enough to buy into playing that way.

If Kaman played for the Jazz, in a system like that, run with that high level of alacrity, with a point guard like Williams, Kaman would astound you.

ClipThemOff
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ahh give it up sam mays

hopefully the next years coach can see that and make sure Kaman and Griffin destroy other teams interior defence with a solid SF waiting besides them

SamMays
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^^^ You're right ClipThenOff... I don't know why I try... It's better than settling down to work, I guess... And I can occasional convert someone.

ClipThemOff
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yeh right.. lol

these are the same people who wanted Maggette out of town and now want him back...pssshh

screw them.... SO WERE CAN WE GET OURSELVES A KAMAN ALLSTAR JERSEY?!

Clippersfan86
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None of us have pushed for a Maggette return on this forum. At least not anyone that matters. The guys like myself that post a ton, have solid votes and are actual fans (about 15 of us on this forum probably) may have little disagreements but aren't blind to common sense facts. I won't say names but the point is the biggest posters on here DO realize Kaman is our most consistent and best player this year. Just because we find flaws doesn't mean we dislike him or think he's not our best. Personally I think he's the best Center in the league right now BUT would love to see him play great D and crash the boards better again. You can't start scoring 20 ppg and let your rebounds dip 2-3 a game and lose a block a game. He should be conditioned to handle both ends of the floor.

If we had a 20 ppg, 12.7 rpg and 2.8 bpg Kaman he would be considered best in the league by non Clipper fans. By seasons end I hope he can get back over 10 rpg and 2 bpg.

EDIT* When I say anyone that matters I'm singling out the occasional idiot flamers who join the board and say 2-3 ridiculous things such as "We need Maggette back"! ETC. I'm not saying if you don't post all the time you're unimportant! Reality though is only about 15 of us post on a regular basis on this board.

ClipThemOff
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yes he does have faults but some people just like what clipperboy24 posted about clippers fans at games will diss Kaman while he is playing and etc..... now thats pathetic

clipper*joe
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Welcome CTO. Hey, please use better language to express yourself without insulting others.

ekker3
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Repped High Quality Post

let's trade our most consistent player and then watch DJ miss rebounds, dunks, and defensive rotations. let's then watch camby leave us this summer (or even if he stays, let's watch him retire in 2 years). then we can rely on our extremely inconsistent outside shooters.

what's up with the new wave clipper fans being so picky? here's our 4th all-star in los angeles history and people want him gone at his peak?

ClipThemOff
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lol clipper joe i don't mean anyone personaly

i just mean more of the fans that do this:

Blake - sorry, but you have no room to talk after the tin man, in heart and in body, goes for 48 on the all-star-shortened week. But yes, congrats to Kaman. I have never seen a player more maligned by his own fans. I went to one Clippers game and literally half of the Clipper fans spent the whole game ragging on Kaman. He would bust his butt running around trying to get the ball, not come up with it, and then everyone would just rail on him. That's what bonded the Clipper fans there together, was laughing at each others' jokes about how much Kaman sucked and looked like a caveman. So congrats to him for sticking it to them all.

ClipThemOff
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now thats a damn shame =/

clipper*joe
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It doesn't have to be personal. By putting anyone who disagrees with you in that kind of box, you have indirectly insulted them. What this does is make it easier for those that disagree with you elevate this discussion into name calling.

I understand and agree with you about Kaman but drawing the line like that never ends up good. Just some advice...

clipperboy24
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AMEN Brother!!

ClipThemOff
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sometimes people need a good slap in the face

you don't boo a player who happens to be one of the very few clippers to ever make the allstar team.... just completely dumb

clipper*joe
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Well, sometimes the slapper needs to know the rules before they decide on who deserves the burden of a slap. Here, you don't decide when and where someone needs a slap. Here, you need to follow the rules.

Here they are;

http://clippers.topbuzz.com/PNphpBB2-vi ... -1593.html

By the way, do you know los_831?

ekker3
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im with you CTO. everytime im at staples i hear them mocking the heck out of chris. he gets worse treatment then kobe on his own HOME COURT. its frustrating to witness.

MuteHaitian
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Don't worry, the other 50 of us read on a regular basis. I myself check this site at least 5 times a day and read all the posts. Along with my e-mail, facebook, and news, CTB is a site I always access whenever I open my browser Smile. I'm just too lazy to post long and deep analyses that you guys do!

SamMays
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Kaman has the best post moves in the NBA since Kevin McHale... He finishes left, right, has all the drop steps and step through moves you could want to see... But around here, some people only respond to dunks. They want him to also be an athletic specimin who can drop the hammer on guys five times a game. It's ridiculous.

Kaman is a solid athlete, but he's not going to become Shaq or even Dwight Howard... People should appreciate him for what he is, not what they mistakenly project a center should be.

Nobody in Boston complained that McHale didn't dunk more often... They were winning and the pieces fit... We haven't found that combination yet... Perhaps we never will, but that doesn't mean Kaman isn't an outstanding player...

In the 80's, the Celtics won three titles. If you took away McHale and replaced him with Kaman they probably still would have won three and Kaman would be remember for his positives, rather than his negatives.

LAC_12
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Its not hard to bring great numbers when you are the number one option in your team. Everything on this team centers around Kaman. He never dunks - thus never bring energy to the team, doesn't look like an all star, and doesn't create momentum. The passes to Kaman are WOWs that await a facial, then we see the guy either bank it, miss it, or turn it over.

Then he gets on the defensive end and completely gives it away for an easy basket, or gets dunked on (no matter if its the shortest player on the opposing team, or their front court - whom are rarely 7 feet+).

Hes a great player, but hes NO number one option and hes NO leader. I rag on him because our team forces to use him in such ways, and the truth is he does not cut it. Pau Gasol, plays like a girl, criticized for being too soft, on a winning team, and 3rd or 4th option for his team is managing to average averaging more rebounds an more blocks - and only three less points. And that man plays with a person called Kobe Bryant. Dwight Howard, not the greatest skilled player (not yet), and not truly a 1st option (offensively) for his team. The man is THE focal part of the team, but he knows hes not as offensively gifted as Olajuwon, so he gets the offense moving through him and, more importantly, he exploits his expertise of the game - DEFENSE. Then we have a Chris Bosh... the player we want Kaman to be, the kind of player we are using Kaman as... its just not gonna work. Kaman does not move like Bosh does - Kaman finds himself at times just slumping around in the offense and clogging up space, whereas Bosh moves with a purpose finds an opening and takes it. If the ball doesn't come Bosh moves to set up his teamates and often draws a defender or two to remain committed on help side defense. By doing so, he makes life on others easier, he creates space for some offense to move through, and he engages on his next task - offensive rebounds.

People love to argue that Kaman is ALL STAR material, when in reality he is not. Or, forgive me for using that description, people argue that hes our most consistent player and that there is no one better to replace him, that theres no major flaws in his game, and that he is the leader of our team, when in reality he is not. He brings the numbers night in and night out, hes our first and only option what do you expect. I guarantee you, if we made Al the 1st option he will not only go back to previous form, but he will greatly improve. Not to mention his numbers will go up and he will be another candidate for the ALL STARS. There is a big lack of initiative on this Clipper team, theres no big balled, demanding and aggressive player - aka a true ALL STAR. There is no leader on this team. Kaman is to weak and cant fullfiill that roll. He should be put back into a 2nd or 3rd or 4th option in our offense and our demands and expectations for him should be lower. We should put tose pressures on a player that can handle it, a true leader, a true ALL STAR that gets voted in normally. A LeBron James, a DWade, a Chris Bosh. Someone that carries weight and demands respect from opponents as well as his own teammates.

I dont disagree that Kaman is a bad player, I dont rag on him because I dont like him. I like him, hes a man on my squad. People need to realize this and not speak like they are God's gift to the world: "if you dont think Kaman blah then you should watch another sport" "you dont belong on this board" "you need a good slap in the face" "clips fans are *****". Slow your roll and try to understand the opposing veiwpoint, try to understand both sides before you speak or else you just look flat out ignorant.

MannyA
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I like Kaman and Im glad to hear that most of the people here support him. He has been struggling for a while now especially with his jumper and he's been settling for the jumper too often. Hopefully it can start falling again and he can return to his early season form. The important thing is that he's one of the leaders of our team and we have to support him. Now what I wanna know is why can't we do the same for the other leader on the team? Some people praise Kaman, but then hate on Baron or vica a versa. Baron has been just as important to the Clippers this season as Kaman. They both have had their ups and downs ans you can even say that Baron has a tougher job because of all the great point guards in this league. They both play major roles on our team and both need to be supported.

clipperboy24
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LAC_12: you cmpletely disregard so many ofthe comments and make false statements. I dont think anyone has posted Kaman doesnt have any major flaws. He does. He's not perfect and yet heperforms very well. Shoots at a high% and has played consistently.

I think you should just give up ripping on Kaman, because the reality is he is playing great and is one of the top centers in the league and is paid at the mid level for decent centers. Why do you have to continue trying to belittle and point out his flaws. We understand he isnt the #1 defender, but he is one of the top offensive players and provides decent defense. He rebounds well and passes well.

I also think the one thing about Kaman that most people get caught up in are his obvious mistakes that happen a couple times a game.

I remember in one of my Management classes the instructor talking about how many people who struggle with the big picture will latch on to one or two minor details instead of listening or watching as a whole and looking at the entire package. This causes a skewed view and also one to potentially miss some very important aspects of whatever is being observed. I think this happens to most sports fans.

clipper*joe
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Some call it:

Missing the forest for the trees.

ekker3
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i totally understand where you're coming from, but also think that you're reading too much into it. you're claiming that kaman's stats are only up because he's our number one option - well, isnt that the case for all all-stars?

as far as saying kaman's a leader, do all-stars have to be leaders? isnt this just a mid-season "who's playing great" award. danny granger last year - a leader? amare stoudemire a leader? does he play defense? does he care about his team at all? amare is damn good, but has HUGE voids in his game and his attitude.

speaking of leadership, that was supposed to be baron's role - kaman was never expected to be a leader. and lets not forget, chris has only experienced this kind of success for half a season. chauncey billups didnt show leadership skills when he was averaging 9 points some 5 years into his career. leadership and trust is earned with successful experience, and sometimes inherited as players grow more and more self-confident. hell, i remember when tmac was shy.

ClipThemOff
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i wasn't trying to start a pro kaman/anti kaman groups on clipperstopbuzz but honestly

who in their right minds just put Kaman down like he is nothing?

you don't have to like him or even want him traded away but alot of people are pretty much saying he is sugar coated garage.......

(Sen. Wilson "YOU LIE!" to Obama) kind of feels like that a little

Steady818
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Why trade a player the team relys on so much???

Then what??

I say the team fires kim hughes hes a terrible coach..

Ok seriously though I think all kaman needs to do is make better decisions in game time and that will get better as the year winds down.. trade kaman now and everyone is going to get on dunleavy's case again and just point it out as one of the stupid decisions he made as GM and that he needs to released from that duty as well.

clipfantoolong
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Nobody is saying trade Kaman for a bag of potato chips. He is playing good this season, but he will not take us to the next level. So trade him if and only if the deal is right for the Clippers. His stock is the highest ever, so it is the perfect time now.

ClipThemOff
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that might as well go for every player on this roster even Blake Griffin if anybody throws a deal you can't deny.

you should look on clipperblog/clipsnation..... they are pretty much in favor for the bag of chips

SamMays
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Kaman will be fine... He's like Gasol, a very good complimentary player who we have to thrust into the top player position because we don't have our Kobe... If you remember, a lot of people in Memphis didn't think Pau was a player you could build around or would take you to the next level... They were wrong...

Gasol's an asset to any team and makes them better... So does Kaman... Give us Kobe and you'll be loving Kaman.

clipperboy24
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this statement is void on many levels. We dont even know what Kaman will bring to this franchise and from what he has brought this year the future is looking brighter and brighter. Kaman and Griffin have a very complimentary game to each other and thy could really take us to the next level as a dynamic duo.

Why would we want to trade our strongest part unless the fear is he will fail because this is a fluke or we get a better player. Yes please trade kaman for Howard, Bosh, Duncan or Amare. Outside of that... its not worth it! Also there is a reason his value is "so high" right now... HE IS A VERY VALUABLE PLAYER!!!

ClipThemOff
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only the dunce would speak like that about a player..... that is why the GM/Coach thing didn't work out...

all LA needs is a Danny Granger or Rudy Gay at SF and everything solves itself.... hell even Anthony Randolph who looks like he could play wing can fit in

Icecoldclipper
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This may be the case if this is the matter we need to start creating for others instead of forcing it with Kaman. Kaman is not built to be a number one option he does not have the ability to finish a team a key season why you hardly see any big men in this league as a 1st option. If we are going to go force it crazy we might as well establish Gordon run plays for him until he can't go anymore and set him up to score. It's time we stop the live or die with Chris Kaman.

clipfantoolong
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those who say Kaman is our future are just looking at the stats sheet. you better watch the game live close from good seats. his mistakes here and there would make you feel different way. look at his facial expressions and attitudes. he is NOT Gasol. He cannot be Gasol.

SamMays
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Icecoldclipper wrote:
SamMays wrote:
Kaman will be fine... He's like Gasol, a very good complimentary player who we have to thrust into the top player position because we don't have our Kobe... If you remember, a lot of people in Memphis didn't think Pau was a player you could build around or would take you to the next level... They were wrong...

Gasol's an asset to any team and makes them better... So does Kaman... Give us Kobe and you'll be loving Kaman.

This may be the case if this is the matter we need to start creating for others instead of forcing it with Kaman. Kaman is not built to be a number one option he does not have the ability to finish a team a key season why you hardly see any big men in this league as a 1st option. If we are going to go force it crazy we might as well establish Gordon run plays for him until he can't go anymore and set him up to score. It's time we stop the live or die with Chris Kaman.

We run our offense through Kaman because he's our best offensive player... The only guy capable of drawing a double team. If you think we can run our offense through Gordon, then this thread is pointless. Gordon is a nice player, but he has too many holes in his game to ever be a # 1 threat and is way too inexperienced to be the guy.

If you read my post in context, you will see that I agree with you that he's not built to be a #1 player... But he's our # 1 player because we don't have an alternative... Until we get one, he's our guy and needs to be...

We have no others to create throug... Kaman is the guy.

SamMays
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Gasol wasn't Gasol until he started playing with Kobe.. And if you want to talk about facial expressions, nobody is goofier than Pau Gasol. Kaman is an all-star, one of 24. Deal with it.

ClipThemOff
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people dont like Kaman because of a kind of prejudice. I don't think because he a white but more because he is a bit slow and goofy, and the type of style he plays...

everyone wants the big dunker and less of a old school type player... its sad how people cant appreciate the things a center should do

BBCLIP1
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The bottom line is this. Having Kaman as our #1 option down the stretch is a recipe for disaster. He is not the guy you want with the ball in his hands down the stretch and taking shots. He is a turnover waiting to happen once he's double teamed and this hurts the Clippers chances in making a comeback when trailing. He kills our offensive flow once he gets the ball because he takes too long to make a decision in what to do. He doesn't box out to rebound and is a poor man to man defender. Boozer made Kaman his b**ch last night and it was truly pathetic to see. This is our All-Star? What a joke.

For the record, Boozer or Marc Gasol should've made the All-Star game over Kaman imo. Their teams have better records and they've played a huge role in that. I'm not a homer like some here who believe that Kaman should've been an All-Star. He doesn't deserve it. Boozer and Gasol are just some of the players far more deserving than Chris.

ClipThemOff
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mind u prejudice doesn't have to be racial nor gender

clipfantoolong
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SamMays wrote:
Quote:

those who say Kaman is our future are just looking at the stats sheet. you better watch the game live close from good seats. his mistakes here and there would make you feel different way. look at his facial expressions and attitudes. he is NOT Gasol. He cannot be Gasol.

Gasol wasn't Gasol until he started playing with Kobe.. And if you want to talk about facial expressions, nobody is goofier than Pau Gasol. Kaman is an all-star, one of 24. Deal with it.

Gasol was a better player than Kaman from Day 1. What are you smoking?

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