Aminu scared me

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lacsmoove
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Only got to catch the last quarter and a half of the clippers game last night and Bledsoe looked pretty good to me, but Aminu looked awkward, unsure of himself and out of place. Granted I never really saw him play in college, never saw him play until last night, somebody please tell me that wasn't him.

Guru
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can we use the summer league as a reference ??? .... I don't think so.

jcdigital
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^you should watch the whole game, he played well. Shut down babbitt, and had some good plays...still needs to get consistent and stay agressive which all comes in time. But he played well. Def watch the first 2 quarters where ull see all of our guys not just aminu, being more aggressive and playing uptempo. 3 quarter was still good d by aminu, but not too much offense by anyone on the floor.

lacsmoove
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Thanks JC.

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Most of Alf's game seems to come early , maybe fitness is a portion of why he seems to disappear later in the games.

JamFan
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I disagree with lacsmoove. This game was a major step forward for the Chief. He 19, but it is just a matter of time. Also, one reason why things look funny in Summer League is that a lot of the players around you are not very good. The offense is sloppy and everyone is not even running the plays. Bledsoe, DJ, Warren, Aminu will all look better in a more structured environment once we get into pre-season games with the regulars.

insignificant
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i dont want to say it, but he reminds me a little bit of al thorton. shrugs. i dont know im hoping its just my imagination and hes a different type of player

lacsmoove
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JamFan I wasn't saying he sucked as I said I only saw him play the last 1 1/2 qtrs. yesterday. I was just stating that he looked a little off-balance from what I saw. I don't have much to go on.

SamMays
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^^^ Aminu looks like the player all the scouts said he was. That is a big, long, athletic player who brings good defense. On the offensive side, he doesn't handle, shoot or create well and has a questionable motor, tending to watch others play the game. He's a project player who may develop into something very special, or may end up a very marginal player for 7 - 10 years... I think he's one of the rare examples of when the scouts got it exactly right.

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Yes, he does telegraph every move much as Al does, but Alf is slower now than Al ever was, so I think he can learn to be more deceptive, because his moves aren't ingrained habits as were Al's. An obvious advantage to a younger guy compared the four year college, Al.

benoitbenjamin
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I think this is a huge adjustment for any 19yr old kid to come in and start at the sf. How many other at that age have done it. Evans is the second pick of the draft, some people even thought he was a #1 pick and he struggled during summer league in orlando. I think we can rate this pick towards the end of the season based on how much he can grow as player.

SamMays
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^^^ The difference is Evans has well established skill sets. All he has to do is get used to playing against bigger, faster opponents and adjust to the pro game. Aminu has to do all of that AND learn to dribble, pass and shoot and learn to play the game facing the basket as a 3 instead of mostly back to the basket as a 4. No mean feat.

clipperstown
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yeah reminds me of al ALOT... which is bad cause al was pretty bad, even though one of my favorite. he is indecisive like al, and he seems to always settle for the jumper instead of taking it inside. we drafted another low IIQ guy, great roll

tense2
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^^Wow, I thought all he had to do was learn how to shoot...he can't dribble or pass either. How in the heck was this guy rank so high on every basketball draft/info site..as a SF. Makes you wonder

TheDude
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Compare Aminu to Eric Gordon and it's no contest. EG was 19years old. He tore it up in summer league his first year. Aminu is lost and invisible out there. He doesn't look any better than his d-league teammates.

Two point game at the end yesterday and our lottery pick is on the bench. Tells the story right there.

pageC4
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I would be naive by saying that Summer League will showcase exactly how a player will be in thr pros, but Dude you definitely brought up a good point. Both Eric Gordon and Blake Griffin did really well during their first years. Eric went on to start at the 2 eventually and his play was just as good in the regular season as it was in summer league. Blake Griffin got injures, but most of us have good reason to believe he will be that good as well.

So when Aminu is struggling against the marginal players of theNBA, and to some extent rookies that should be on his level, then there is cause for concern.

ClipThemOff
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bust.

SamMays
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I hate the idea of drafting a player who doesn't have the skills for the position he's going to have to play in the pros and hope that you can develop them. It almost never works. Imagine if we had Kobe Bryant on our team and we drafted Eric Gordon hoping we could convert him into a point guard. How much would he be playing? Where would his career be? In the toilet, that's where. He'd be backing up Kobe and playing twelve minutes a game as we went out and got someone who was actually a PG...

I fear that's essentially what we did with Aminu. We have Blake Griffin and we drafted an undersized PF in the hopes that we can convert him to a SF. Do you think it's going to work? Certainly not any time soon. Were the scouts and writers wrong about him? No. They were almost to a man dead on. Great athlete, but a project who may pay off in a big way if he learns to play SF... Problem is, we're the Clippers with an immediate need for a SF. What business do we have taking on a project? Right now, I would gladly trade him for any one of the three other players we should have drafted, Babbit, Hayward or George.

And perhaps Aminu will be the better player in the long run. Aminu might fit in with other teams better than he fits with us and maybe somebody else would have gotten more out of him... To me he looks like a guy who will play a few minutes here and there for defense, or as an undersized PF when we go small and Griffins out... So far he reminds me of our old friend Bo, but without the relentless hustle and a worse jump shot.

If the guy was really a SF, he would have been in his yard for the last three years working on jumpers and his handle... Most players develop the skills they WANT to develop... Why isn't Baron a good jump shooter? He never worked hard enough on his shot to become one. If he took the number of shots that Ray Allen has taken in his lifetime, he'd also be a great shooter. At about the same age, why are Hayward, Babbit and George better ball handlers, passers and shooters than Aminu... They wanted to develop those skills and did with a lot of hard work that Aminu wasn't interested in putting in.

Aminu is young. Can he change? Sure, but it won't be easy.

TheDude
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yup. If you're a top tier team and you have a chance to draft a guy like that, you do it. You have the luxury to work with him for years to try to hit the jackpot by creating a SF out of a big. It's boom or bust with a guy like Aminu. The Lakers can take that gamble. Orlando, Miami, Boston, S.A., Dallas, can take that gamble.

The worst franchise in all of sports cannot take that gamble.

I liken it to taking Koralev. If they would have taken the sure thing in Granger, we'd have a borderline franchise player today. Instead, we take a gamble on a guy who could have been the next Dirk but had just as good a chance to bust and that's what happened. Hopefully Aminu won't go the way of Koralev but it is possible. None of the other three options we had are nearly as risky as this pick.

I wanted Paul George hands down...But the right pick for the LA Clippers was Luke Babbitt. He won't be a superstar but he was the least risky of the 4 options. He's solid in all aspects, a plus athlete, and is the right size for the position.

We are not a lucky franchise. We cannot rely on "potential". This team needs solid and reliable and we passed that up for a big maybe.

lacsmoove
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I believe we should have been been shopping him long before summer league started, if we knew we were not going to get LeBron. This is why I feel that we're dropping the ball. We should have immediately sought a trade for a solid SF. We had/have picks and Aminu. I haven't seen enough yet to say he's not going to cut it @ SF but if he is a project then we should have packaged him with picks to get a top SF in this league. Isn't that what good teams do?

Greenmonk94
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aminu is a defensive presence..

he can hold players down 2 below there average and can rebound... if he cant make points.. he can defend.. i think we got lucky with him and will be ower top defender for years to come..

Quote that!

jcdigital
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No, if what you say is true, then granger would be horrible in this league, or if he was anything he would have just left our team like every other player has. Obviously he is a product of not only what he brought in from college but also getting the opportunity to handle the ball in late game situations and learning from his mistakes. Obviously granger had "potential" and was not a complete player when he was drafted. But no, we should never draft someone who easily could have gone 4-7 and no one would have questioned it. The only guy right now who is really dominating summer league is john wall. Demarcus cousins has been pretty good as well. But all the guys who were the sure thing, have not played amazing. So im not sure who u really think is solid and reliable. The person who comes closest to that was babbit and aminu shut him down while out on the floor. In addition, paul george is probably the pick you would pick with the most ???? and going off of what his potential could be because he played in a weak conference and had weak numbers. Hayward was maybe the next surest pick, and so far he is shown he is a 2 guard, not a 3. Just like george. So to say aminu is such a horrible pick up in comparison to the other SF's we could have had, i say as of right now your point is weak. There is too little to go off of, and only time will tell how these players will play in an actual season and actual sets to run in the half court. Aminu looks like given some playing time to get acclimated, he will be a fine SF. And really he has not looked like a PF this whole summer league. He has played on the perimeter and has shown he has good quickness and ball handling skills. Not to mention a good looking form on his shot when he is aggressive and reacting (not thinking). But still there is too little to go off of to make a decision on whether or not he will be good or anyone other than maybe Wall might be good.

And im not quite sure why everyone is freaking out that he isnt ready to be the best SF in the league right now...we have gomes already to be our good SF either starting until we can get a trade set for a great SF or if T-mac's work out goes well then we have our starting SF. Everyone says how our starting SF needs to have basically 2 things...passing and shooting. Sure it would be nice to have one get his own shot but we dont need that. If t-mac shows he's in condition and all better, then we have our starting and back up SF duo who can play right now and let aminu develop his game until he can beat both guys out for the starting job. Sure aminu might not be the best SF right now, but as of right now the only guy to fit the bill is maybe babbitt. But he is definitely not starter quality. And he has shown he is not a great passer with his low assist numbers in his games. He even got less assists than aminu last game. And to you guys, aminu is supposed to be a PF with no skills wat so ever other than dunking the ball. I guess u might have to eat some of your words. Bottom line:ITS WAY TOO EARLY TO BE MAKING JUDGEMENTS

LABraves4Life
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Babbitt is scoring less points per game than Aminu (who's playing SF for first time), and Aminu is getting DOUBLE the amount of boards Babbitt is averaging. The Clippers don't need another shooter who can't do anything else and wont play D (see Al Thornton and Rasual Butler). They needed the opposite and they found it! Gomes can play the 3 when the Clipps are in need of a 3 point threat and spread offense.

lacsmoove
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To JC. First off I love your passion for this team. Secondly You can go a couple of ways with this. If you feel strongly that Aminu can develop then you grab someone like T.Prince for a couple of second rounders to give us the proven defensive, championship experienced SF who shot 37% from 3 last year. With him I believe we can get into and do well in the playoffs(he provides what is required from our needs at that position)while giving Aminu, Bledsoe,Blake,EG and any other young guys we'll have the playoff experience that they so desparately need to have. Especially benificial having it early in their careers. Yet if we can get Granger, who is easily one of the top 4 or 5 SF's in the league (and he's only 27) that would give us a formidable starting 5:

PG BD

SG EG

SF Granger

PF Blake

C Kaman

Let's assume we had to give up Bledsoe and Aminu and an addittional 1st or second rounder to get him, with him we go from a starting lineup with potential to clearly one of the best starting lineups in the league. We've already signed Gomes and Foye, so we fill out our bench with them DJ and maybe Roger Mason, Rhino or Sofo etc.

Can you honestly say you don't see that team going deep in the playoffs for the next 3-5 yrs.?

LABraves4Life
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The Clippers were cursed by the fact that we had an outside chance of Lebron maybe coming. Teams with cap room and that knew they didn't have a Lebron chance did amazing (see Thunder off season trades).

The Clippers Front Office had to clear the cap room and make the pitch. Clippers fans would have never forgiven the Clippers with their strong young core and only hole at SF if they didn't at least take a stab at getting the best.

Now its done. Clippers can move on. On the bright side, at least the Clippers didn't do as much cap clearing negative moves as the Knicks or Bulls.

lacsmoove
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Thank goodness for that. But just because they didn't land LeBron doesn't mean they shouldn't be aggressive now.

LABraves4Life
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Lacsmoove, I don't think as much is available right now as people on this board want to believe there is. When I spoke with Andy Rosner last week he said a lot of trade options (like Deng) were never just for free and now were off the table completely unless you overpay in return assets. As far as free agents, Miller was the guy they liked after losing out on Lebron, Johnson and Gay all within the first few days of free agency. We all know Miller took half of what we offered him to go play for the Heat.

I think a lot of teams are prepared to enter the season as is. Once they start losing or winning big, then trades will pick up again. Until then, don't over pay for average Clipps! Or make them 1 year deals so they're trade chips as mid season.

lacsmoove
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Don't get me wrong LABraves. As I've said the only player I might extend a 3 1st round picks for is Granger because he's only 27 yrs old and was good for 25 pts. 1.52 steals 5.5 boards and 2.8 assist last year. But a couple of second rounders for Prince with what he brings to the table for this team(championship experience,37% from3 great D) is a great sound move. And If neither of those work lets get T-Mac for a reasonable contract. Even @ 31 he was one of the best a few years back and maybe has recovered from those injuries. But I strongly believe in going into camp with your lineup set and any one of these moves makes us better now and in the future

LABraves4Life
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Lacsmoove, Why do you think Prince is available for nothing but a 2nd in return?

According to http://hoopshype.com/salaries/detroit.htm Prince has only 1 year left on his deal, and therefore that would make him an attractive asset. Expiring contracts always are, and especially when they play solid D and hit the 3 point shot you mentioned. I bet Prince would cost us an attractive asset. If an attractive asset is what its going to take to get a one year rental, I'd rather trade more and get Granger, or pay more and get T-Mac for 1 year deal. That creates an expiring contract that can be traded if nothing works out.

lacsmoove
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On NBATV about a week or two ago(I was saying he'd be a good fit before then) David Aldridge said that he would be a good fit for the Clips and Detroit would do that deal for a couple of second rounders

LABraves4Life
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They were probably looking at the Pistons $58 million in pay roll this season combined with the worst economic state in the country and and think they need to trim it at all cost. Prince would clear $11 million off the books in bankrupt D city. I'd gladly take Prince for a couple 2nd rounders!! Only because his contracts expiring though.

Good ideas lacsmoove and clippers.season.tix. Good chatting with you both. Have good nights.

lacsmoove
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Thanks LABraves you too

SamMays
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And you don't see that as a problem... Aminu averaged 16 points and 11 boards, plus a good number of blocked shots in his college career... He was an excellent PF... No doubt about it... He has a long, long way to go to be a SF in this league... And he is not a good ball handler or decision maker facing the basket... And he shot 24% from three last year... He may one day be an excellent SF, but that is a long ways off... In the mean time we have Gomes... SF is still by far a position of weakness.

jcdigital
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^You need to read more and not just pick and choose parts of a sentence.... solving our SF problems are easy when we have cap space....All this talk about trading aminu is pointless. And he would not be a good PF in this league. He doesnt play physical enough to back down guys like blake griffin. And i would beg to differ that his ball handling skills arent good. They are good for a guy his size. The fact that he can get his own shot and dribble up the court without getting the ball stolen from him is great! If anthing just watch him play in the summer league...dont watch neone else and youll see he is playing the perimeter decently. What im mainly trying to say with that quote above is that he doesnt need to be the greatest thing since sliced bread because we already have a guy who can be even our back up. If we bring in a guy through trade that is short term like prince or someone like that then we have our SF situation settled until aminu comes into his own...just like you said he may one day be an excellent SF. As long as we get a stop gap for the short term, we will be fine and we will have our SF of the future.

Greenmonk94
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SamMays wrote:
Quote:

And im not quite sure why everyone is freaking out that he isnt ready to be the best SF in the league right now...we have gomes already to be our good SF

And you don't see that as a problem... Aminu averaged 16 points and 11 boards, plus a good number of blocked shots in his college career... He was an excellent PF... No doubt about it... He has a long, long way to go to be a SF in this league... And he is not a good ball handler or decision maker facing the basket... And he shot 24% from three last year... He may one day be an excellent SF, but that is a long ways off... In the mean time we have Gomes... SF is still by far a position of weakness.

Gomes is not not a star but he is efficient... idk about everyone wanting stars on all our starting position.. we got enough stars in blake griffin, eric gordon, kaman... Gomes still puts up good # just not a player that sticks out.. for 4 mill.. i think we got a good player in gomes becuse he can play defense not like the other SF we have and remember defense wins games

TheDude
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I just don't understand the logic of applauding the front office for saving themselves money. We don't get any of that money. It does not benifit the team or the fans in any way.

the Clippers are a perennial loser and at the same time, they are one of the only profitable teams in league year in and year out. Why is that? Because they don't spend the money putting the best team on the floor. They treat the team as a just another cash cow for Sterling.

We had one glaring hole going into this offseason. We had 18mil to spend. They signed a low level player for 4mil instead of paying 6mil for any number of other guys who were better players.. It's a cop-out signing.

Monk, you say we don't need a star at every position. We already have 3 good players....

The best teams in the league, save for OKC if you consider them in that group, all have payrolls 20,30,40mil higher than our team. How do we expect to compete with the likes of Orlando, Miami, Dallas, Lakers, ect. when our highest paid player is Baron Davis and all our hopes are put on the shoulders of a rookie?

We are not an elite team in this league. Not even close. We need as much talent as we can get and that costs money.

TheDude
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Of course whoever is saying we need to trade Aminu now is dead wrong. You don't trade a lottery pick based on some summer league games. Either trade him on draft night or make it work. (Also you can't trade him until mid december anyway.)

"Solving our SF problems is easy with cap space"....Well you're right, it should have been easy. Instead they lined their pockets further by signing Gomes instead of a legit starter...Now we have little cap space available and are hoping to be able to sign TMac, the last remaining starter quality guy and he's a risky signing himself considering the injuries. I support the idea to sign the guy but only because we put ourselves in a position to need him now. It wasn't necessary to get to this point.

Regarding Aminu, you say his ball handling skills are good...for a guy of his size.

What you're saying is he has a good handle for a PF. I'd agree with you. But it doesn't matter what size he is. Does he have a good handle for a SF? Absolutely not.

When he shoots, he's just trying to hit the rim. Any make he gets from the outside is pure luck at this point. Doesn't mean he can't develop a consistent jumper, it just means that is something he needs to work on. A lot. For a long time.

You're comparing stats between the 4 different guys but that's not the best way to look at it in summer league. Look at how they play the game. George, Hayword, Babbitt all play like SF's. They can handle with ease. They can shoot a pull up js. They look comfortable in their own skin. Of course they all need to get better before they'll be big time players in the league...But Aminu needs to simply learn HOW to play and then get better. A much tougher task. A much more long term process...And what me, Mays, and many others are saying is that the Clippers had no business taking a long term project in HOPES that he'll be great someday when we could have had a guy who is simply solid at his position and has a chance to slot in and truly contribute at the SF in a much shorter time.

season.tix.holder
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SamMays,

To be honest, I was thinking the same thing in that I wish we would've drafted Hayward..

jcdigital
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^George and hayward play like SGs hands down...there is no way they play like SFs. They play with now power...they dont rebound that well and they both try to shoot over their defenders, rather than actually roughing them up or taking it to their body. If anything babbitt is the only player that actually plays like a true SF. And he is more of a role player than anything else. He doesnt rebound well as well but he does do his job in the spot up mid range game. If you listen to even the announcers they even agree that both george and hayward are good SGs in the league. Not SFs. True babbitt is more consistent from midrange where all the other picks are not. But the one thing we wanted was perimeter/post defense and rebounding and aminu is much better at that then the other prospects mentioned. Basically if we picked up george or hayward they wouldnt do that for us, so all they would be useful for is their shooting, which they have struggled with a lot even in summer league. In addition both have lots of trouble with stronger defenders. They cant handle the post or scrapping for rebounds. And sure george and hayward can handle the ball extremely well. But it comes at a cost because they cant rebound and/or play post d, (let alone hayward cant even play perimeter D). Babbitt does not have a better handle on the ball than aminu at this point, but he does have a much surer perimeter game. That would come in handy for our team and i cant disagree with that. But to say that aminu has no handles, and that his shot is awful is to actually not watch the mechanics on his shot. They are actually quite good and there is no part of it that says he will not be able to easily get a consistent shot in the near future.

You, mays and some others dont understand that we got a player that meets our needs that all out other players dont really fill. Besides EJ, no one played defense last season. And once camby left, we were left with no one to rebound the ball (hence no one filled the 14 rebounds a game or something like that he was getting). Aminu does both of the really well. We dont need another scorer other than him to make outside shots. He cant do that yet so that is y we picked up a guy like gomes who can hit a 3 pt shot consistently and we dont lose out on defense when he is on the court as well. He might be a project but not nearly as much as everyone says he is. He has a ton of skill. And even haters like chris webber like what they see. So how does a hater like chris webber like what he sees and a guy who is a fan of the club not? Aminu is solid at what he was mainly brought here to do, defense and rebounding. Getting a consistent shot will come. But his ball handling skills for his position might not be that of JJ (who is a SG btw) but they are very good for his position. They are much better than guys like travis outlaw, luol deng, al thornton. All these guys must give up the ball or do 1-2 dribbles then do a pull up jumpshot, where aminu doesnt have to settle for that because he can keep his dribble and take his man to the paint. (nor should he because he doesnt have a consistent jumpshot yet).

He is a project, but he isnt a project like DJ is...which you keep making him out to be. He is not a complete rebuild because he has perimeter skills, knows how to get to the rack, and can hold guys like babbitt who decent to below their averages. Its still very early to make a decision on whether or not he will be good or consistent. But the flashes he has shown us, shows that he has perimeter skills already. If he were a PF all he would do all game is try and post up the other SF and trying to take them in the post...but that is not the case.

TheDude
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-You don't draft defense at the #8 pick. You use the #58 pick for that.

Defense is largely effort and coaching. We need defense because our team had no effort or coaching last season.

-Analysts are saying George and Hayword can be good SG's because they have solid wing skills. They're so much better than Aminu handling the ball and shooting the ball, that they can move over and play the 2. That is a compliment to their skills. Any time you can move down a position, (PF to SF, SF to SG) it's a positive because it gets more size on the floor.

-I don't care that Aminu can bang in the paint better than Hayword. That's what PF's do. It's not what you need from your wings. If you have nothing but bangers and defenders on the floor you'll never win a game.

-You say Aminu has as good a handle as Babbitt. I don't know what to say to that. We're watching different games. From what I see, there is no comparison.

-You compare him to DJ and say he's not as much of a project as him. I'd argue with that but in the end I sure hope he's not as much of a project as DJ. DJ was a 2nd round pick. Aminu was the 8th. It would be a catastrophe if he was as much a project as DJ.

SamMays
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Quote:

George and hayward play like SGs hands down...there is no way they play like SFs.

In most NBA offenses there is virutally no difference between a SG and SF... They're both wings and almost completely interchangable... Defensively there is the difference that the SF guards the bigger player... The Celtics have Paul Pierce and Ray Allen... Both shoot jump shots. Both penetrate... Pierce is called the SF because he's a couple inches taller.

Quote:

You, mays and some others dont understand that we got a player that meets our needs that all out other players dont really fill. Besides EJ, no one played defense last season. And once camby left, we were left with no one to rebound the ball (hence no one filled the 14 rebounds a game or something like that he was getting). Aminu does both of the really well. We dont need another scorer other than him to make outside shots.

I understand the game pretty well, DC. I've played it at the college level and coached it at the high school level. Yes, I like Aminu as a defender, but with Griffin and Kaman we shouldn't need big rebounding from the SF spot... Aminu was a great college rebounder because he was a PF... What we really need is a good to great three point shooter to spread the floor for Kaman, Griffin and Baron's penetration... We are one of the worse three point shooting teams in the league with only Gordon somewhat accomplished out there...

The simple fact is, I don't think Aminu will spend a lot of time on the court for us this year. Had we gone out and gotten a good SF, I would have been fine drafting a tweener to come off the bench. We didn't do that.

lacsmoove
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1223
votes: 7

Aminu cannot be our starting forward. And who ever Mays was quoting above, how many rebs do you expect from your 3 position. An average of 6 is great at that position. A SF usually gaurding the perimeter on D and is on the perimeter on O. So to say we need D and rebounding at the SF and no scoring is just silly. We need a player who has some kick. It could be T-Mac.

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