Is Gomes the Answer to our SF problems?

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jcdigital
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Great article by Kevin Arnovitz! Makes me like Gomes that much more!

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/n ... id=5469843

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Thanks for that, brains on the Clippers, WOW!

Grillinnap
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Four of our starters are capable of scoring at least 15 points in a game so the SF position doesn't have to be a high scorer. I don't know Gomes' game but looking at his career stats, he has been consistently in the 12 ppg range so that isn't bad at all. I'm more worried about his rebounding and playmaking.

BINGO!
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i really like that the clippers are changing their culture. i expect this team to play hard every game and hopefully that will stop the terrible play in the 4th quarter.

jcdigital
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all that matters to me as of right now is that he is a WAAAAAAAY better rebounder in comparison to Butler. And that is really what we need.

ClipYourWings
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He's really honest; in the article he lines up each one of his weaknesses right after another and points them out... not a show stopper, but thinks the game extremely well. I like Gomes. Hope he does well, for his sake and ours.

Edit: I like this quote from the article. His mantra, pretty much.

BINGO!
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we already have enough people who can score. he bring defense and thats what we need. that is why i also like Aminu. i hope he can help with size like the lakers with odom

jcdigital
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I think it will work well because gomes can handle the more powerful SF's like melo and artest and aminu can handle the quicker SF's. We are definitely a defensive minded team and VDN has definitely preached that emphatically since he has gotten here. That is the way we can definitely win game consistently. It must start with our defense and rebounding. And i think our SF's now can do both much better than last season.

ClipperNationRise
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I liked this guy since we got him. No matter what anybody said. He's part of our team and theres nothing we can do anything about it. But atleast his IQ is apparently higher then Thorntons.

NUMB3RFIFTY
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I love this guy

journeyman
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NUMB3RFIFTY wrote:
Quote:
"Shoot when you're open. Pass when you're not. Play defense. Rebound," Gomes said. "Those are my responsibilities."

I love this guy

Indeed.

I've been touting Gomes since he was with the Wolves. I argued that we should have traded for him last season. People are hating on him and I find myself defending him the same way I defended Marcus Camby when he first arrived. Gomes is going to win a lot of people over; I really believe that.

NUMB3RFIFTY
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Gomes > Aminu ... at least for the next 2-3 years

journeyman
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I still don't see the love for Aminu. He strikes me as a Hakim Warrick in the making.

Hope he proves me wrong.

lacsmoove
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I really hope he turns out. I've never really seen him play, I hope he's a decent ballhandler as I was always uncomfortable when Rasual was dribbling the ball. If he does the things he highlighted and brings the kinda energy that gets the crowd going then and energizes the team then we will be a much better team.

clipperboy24
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Wow humility and intelligence and a desire to ply hard??? Why did we sign this guy? He actually seems like a good fit.

Grillinnap
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Yes, Gomes is our starter right now but please, give Aminu sometime. Dude is 19! It's not like he's Al Thornton who was already 24 in his rookie year.

SamMays
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That's the player exactly. A tweener who never excels at either position, who just manages to hang around the league without ever being a significant asset to anyone. That's who I see Aminu becoming. As usual, I hope I'm wrong and he develops into a first-rate SF.

jcdigital
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y is this turning into a thread about aminu.....this thread has NOTHING to do with aminu. No where in the article do they compare them or even mention aminu. Ppl need to stop trying to find any way to turn a thread into saying how Aminu will not make any progress on his game even tho he is freaking 19. We have been over this same crap on this forum over and over again. Why beat a dead horse? There is no point.

SamMays
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^^^Don't become such a nag, DC... There's no point to any of this if you're going to put it that way. This is for the entertainment of the members. It has a life. Let it grow as it grows.

jcdigital
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What is so entertaining about ripping our own players and saying how they will just suck in theads that dont even have anything to do with them? I dont see the entertainment in that watsoever

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Most of what goes on around here at this time of year is total speculation and it can take on many ugly faces. training camp and the pre-season will shake the winkles out enough in time to realize how far back we may have regressed while trying to catch the lunker ( James) just to realize we lost most of our bait and equipment in the process.

rick0314
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i still think and predict that come february Aminu will be in the starting line up

Greenmonk94
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i truly believe that aminu will be a good player at the SF spot... this is why

Hes 6'9 lean and has a huge wing span.. wow! has a knack for rebounding and can finish around the rim. he has been working at his jumper and if u practice, the only way u can go is up.. also hes 19 but has alot of heart... i know he will be a good SF for us..

clipperboy24
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If he can develop a reliable J, that is a very real possibility.

SamMays
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I'm with you, but I replace the word "know" with "hope." From SL he just seemed so far away from being a SF or any sort of asset to an NBA team this year.

Cliptonyte
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journeyman wrote:
NUMB3RFIFTY wrote:
Quote:
"Shoot when you're open. Pass when you're not. Play defense. Rebound," Gomes said. "Those are my responsibilities."

I love this guy

Indeed.

I've been touting Gomes since he was with the Wolves. I argued that we should have traded for him last season. People are hating on him and I find myself defending him the same way I defended Marcus Camby when he first arrived. Gomes is going to win a lot of people over; I really believe that.

I agree. I am higher on Gomes than a lot of people around here.

SamMays
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For what it's worth, I've always liked Gomes... From when he was an over-acheiving, undersized PF at Providence to his managing to stick in the NBA against the odds. It's all been a testiment to his work ethic, hustle and desire. He's a quality man... While he's not the SF I was hoping we'd have in our starting lineup going into this season, he's a good guy to have on this team. He'll give a good effort and won't hurt us.

If Aminu proves himself worthy of winning that job in the near future, we should be okay at the position... If he doesn't, then the position will remain a weakness going forward.

pageC4
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I think at this point I would rather have Aminu as the starter at the three. Gomes is a career journeyman, so he has hit his potential. Aminu is just a rook, and even though he is better suited as a power forward we have no choice but to start a full immersion program. Let him start every minute possible so he can work on those shooting skills lets make the most out of the situation and try and develop him into a good small forwaard...point of no return

SamMays
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^^^There is no way VDN can afford to give away games while Aminu learns on the job. Del Negor's own job depends on winning and from what I saw in summer league, at least for the first year, Aminu will be much more liability than asset... Aminu is going to have to work during practice, after practice, before practice and every minute he can to develop the SF skills that were clearly absent during the summer league.

In the meantime, he'll probably log some time at PF and some garbage time at SF until he proves he can help the team win...

VDN will see in practice and preseason whether or not Aminu can be trusted on the floor. If he can't, VDN won't play him... If not, he won't be the first high draft pick to languish on the bench while lesser draft picks take his minutes.

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'D' League, that's what it's for.

mj_shoefanatic
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No way Jose.

LABraves4Life
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Wow. Great comparison. I just looked up Warrick measurements. Very similar. Good call. I suppose its not a bad downside, but at the 8th overall pick thats not going to cut it.

The biggest thing I would focus on is rebounding is 75% desire, 25% ability. Despite having nearly identical measurements, Warrick never got above 8.5 boards/game in 4 NCAA seasons. Aminu in just 2 years got up to 11.5/game.

Lets hope this is the dividing factor between Aminu having the needed desire and work ethic to become an elite SF

jcdigital
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I am an aminu supporter on this forum but not even i think he will start this season. That is just too little time to develop his game to where he can beat out gomes. Gomes has a GREAT bball IQ, a consistent jumper, and rebounds decently. Aminu can def be an SF and I dont doubt that one bit especially watching the games he played in his freshman year in college at the 3 and watching how he could defend when switching onto guards in college even some of the quickest guards on the other teams. He definitely can play the 3 but that is not to say he does not need development in his shooting, ball handling, and weight (All things that can easily be worked on and learned with ease when you all you are paid to do is practice basketball all day, every day). But even tho they are things that can be worked on easily, there is very little chance that he gets them down enough to really make a push for that starting 3 spot this season. The way I see it he has a very good shot at starting a year from now with some time in the NBA and a lot of time spent with Severns. And i see Aminu logging more mins at the SF than you are suggesting Sam. VDN has said repeatedly that he is focused mainly on this season being one that is mainly to "do a good job with the development of the players" and make sure they are all playing tough defense and rebounding the ball. With that said, both aminu and bledsoe will be logging more mins than just the 1-3 mins of garbage time. I see both of them logging around 8 mins a game with maybe bledsoe logging 10 mins a game, unless VDN decides to use foye at the point as well. This season is not about making the playoffs, although that is the goal of any team and that will be the highest goal on the list of course, but the biggest and most important goal is to develop the young talent we have. So yes, it will lose us some games...and VDN knows that...but he also knows that getting the rookies to work through their mistakes in game will also make them better players. <----and that is the most important goal for the season.

SamMays
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When VDN talks about his need to develop players, he's talking about post practice work that the young players will do with assistant coaches, in addition to the main practices... No coach will put a player on the floor who's not going to help him in some way... Sure, he'll play him, but he'll have to pick his spots very carefully, so that he doesn't hurt the team... VDN knows if he wins 30 games this year, his future is in jeopardy and he could well lose to team... He has to win and he will play the people that help him do that... If it means playing Gomes 40 minutes a night and Butler the other eight at SF, that's what he'll do.

If Aminu shows he's an asset in his few early minutes, or those games when he does get extended minutes, either because the matchup is favorable or because the people ahead of him are playing poorly, then he'll get further minutes... But, you might recall Korolev never got off the bench for us... Milwaukee had Joe Alexander, also drafted # 8... he never showed he could do it in practice and never got off the bench for Scott Skiles.

I'll also disagree with you here... Becoming a good shooter is not easy, no matter how much time you put into it. I coach high school ball and AAU ball and I've seen lots of players work their tails off and never become good shooters... There is more to it than simple mechanics. If practice was all it takes, Shaq would be able to shoot 80% from the foul line by now... Same with DJ... With hard work, some guys can improve as shooters quite a bit, others will improve slightly and others will improve not at all...

As in almost anything, shooting is partially a gift... Some have it, some will never have it and there are some in between. But very, very few guys have come into the league as poor shooters and left as very good ones, though they are out there.... But if it were easy, a lot more of them would.

I've been at a camp watching some college guys... Most of them are D1 talents who weren't coached very well in high school, or didn't have grades, so they fell through the cracks to JC. Some can't shoot at all and have survived on athleticism. Others have terrible mechanics but shoot it pretty well. One has great mechanics and can't make anything. It's an art and not everyone is an artist or can be turned into one.

jcdigital
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We will see how much time aminu gets...i have a feeling VDN will try and let him get at least 5-8 mins a game to actually get a feel for the NBA. I've watch the VDN interviews a couple different times and he definitely talks about how the mistakes rookies make will hurt you but he still feels its the most important thing to get them some playing time each game. In addition, this is not high school ball or even college ball. These guys have nothing else to do other than work with professionals on their game day in and day out. With DJ its mental. In all the practices he supposedly makes almost all the FTs he takes. Same with Shaq. Shaq was actually a pretty good FT shooter when he went to phx and got over his mental block about FTs. And im not talking about shooting like ray allen where you have to come off screens and shoot with a hand in you face. Im talking about being able to shoot when your open off of spot up situations. That just takes practice and repetition. Just like FTs take repetition. You find your few spots on the court and you do everything to get to those spots so you can score. If it was so impossible to develop a shot, then there wouldnt be shooting coaches that are famous for developing player's shots like dave hopla. That's y players in the NBA are not the same as the players who fell to JCs or players in college. They dont have to worry about classes or homework. They just can focus on their game. And you'll be surprised how much time that opens up for one to work on their game. Now its just up for them to actually work on their game and not spend the days playing vid games or walking around town.

I definitely agree with you that being a great shooter is a natural talent. Shooting 40 some odd percent from 3 is a polished natural talent,not something that is learned. But to just shoot consistently can be learned. Aminu might never shoot like ray allen or paul pierce but he can def shoot like Gomes if he puts in the time and 37% is absolutely a consistent threat from the 3 pt line. Just like you said before, Gomes made himself what he is today, aminu can do the same.

SamMays
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^^^Aminu may well be able to make himself into an efficient shooter... We'll see over time.... His stroke doesn't look too bad... His handle can only get better... It will be interesting to see over the next few years.

clipperboy24
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you actually sound surprisingly optimistic on him:)

Greenmonk94
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aminu will do fine.. but dont expect him to take over the game everytime we need him 2... he will have his days but overall.. hes gonna be a good player to have. a really good role player

SamMays
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I'm not, but what the hell...

pageC4
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You're right VDN won't play him. However, I wish we would for the sake of developing him. I think we aren't going anywhere this year, at the very least we can make this year productive by playing the kids and teach them the fundamentals. Sadly, it doesn't work that way. Coaches priorities are to win first, develop second, so VDN will start Gomes over Aminu if he doesn't like what he sees.

Just wishful thinking on my part. I figure since we drafted Aminu and Gomes is simply a journey man lets just get cracking with Aminu. This would be a great year to give him a lot of minutes because its not like we will win many games anyway. I guess its like a lose lose situation with Aminu...he clearly doesnt have the skill set to play the three and he realistically wont be allowed to start and develop them...damn this just seems like such as wasted situation

SamMays
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There may be moments and situations and matchups where Aminu can help when the games are still meaningful. He may get some time and if he proves worthy of more, he can get more. The reality is, the guys ahead of him are just Gomes and Butler. They can be pushed aside of Aminu is any good at all. It's not like he's playing behind Lebron, so I don't want to go totally negative on his chances.

What's working against him is that he's not really a SF and doesn't have those skills. That's why I've never been in favor of drafting projects and athletes with incomplete games with high picks. Too many of them go the Marvin Williams / Darius Miles route and never fulfill the potential they have as athletes... My feeling is, Aminu will be another one of those, but I'm hoping he proves me wrong... A dead eye shooter in that spot, would get minutes for us even if he has liabilities in other areas... I'm not talking about Steve Novak level liabilities, just inadequacies. That's why I would have prefered the other SFs who were available and why I would still trade Aminu straight up for Xavier Henry, sight unseen.

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