Reason For Kaman's Woes?

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clipper*joe
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Look, we all know Kaman's offense has been abysmal. No hiding that. I am not trying to excuse him but one thing I do know is that any time a person loses weight, it takes some time to adjust.

Mike Smith said during a game that Kaman lost 33 lbs after he came back from his honeymoon. Not sure how true that statement was ,but one thing I have noticed is that he looks a lot thinner, especially around his leg area. The visuals don't lie, the guy looks like a different person. If he lost this weight drastically, that can be a cause for his off-shooting. Al Thornton went through the same thing last season and it took him 8 games to adjust to his natural weight. Kaman's weight right now is NOT his natural weight so don't be surprised if it takes him a bit longer to adjust to his new weight.

BINGO!
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i agree. and plus people have been over reacting with the two losses. im actually very happy to see how hungry BG and EJ look for the Ws. i dont know if people noticed but this guys Want to win. Baron looks tired i dont know why he just does to me. i think we played a great game against portland. just give the clippers 10 games playing together and you will see the change. dont be surprised if we beat the mavericks. i think we have a chance beating them.

Utah is 0-2 too so lets not get too crazy

BINGO!
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oh and Kaman is a great player he shouldnt even be a concern.

StBrg
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Thanks for making me feel better Smile

clipper*joe
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Same thing with baron. I had added a side note to this thread but took it off after not wanting this thread to become a bash baron thread.

People here were saying that Baron needed to be 205 so he could be effective. I didn't believe then, I don't believe it now.

Baron is playing at a lower weight than he was with the Warriors. I still think he is effective, but he doesn't look like the same player he was last season. Just like you said, he looks tired out there...He does to me, too.

People need to realize that there is no magic weight number for any player. Baron has always been a bulky player. This franchise thinks they found a magic number and I think this whole "out of shape" thing has been a farce. All our players save EJ look tired out there. Maybe the Olshey and VDN screwed the pooch on this one, too.

Grillinnap
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My problem with him is when he keeps settling for jumpers off isolations after missing three shots in a row (in three possessions in a row).

clipperstown
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Well we know it's not the weight loss that's his problem, cause he had a great pre season. So it's not the weight loss that is causing him to miss his wide open jumpers, cause he was draining them in pre season.

SDclipper
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Yeah I think Kaman is going to be fine. He is just in a slump it looks like and he's too good of a player to not bust out of it. He's getting open looks and just missing the shots which is something that won't happen all the time. Once he finds his touch the defenses are going to have to adjust which naturally is going to leave more spacing for the quicker guys like EJ and Griffin, and even for Kaman to attack the rim like he has actually done respectably well this season.

I'm not overreacting to a disappointing first two games because as tough as it is for some people to wrap their heads around, this is a work in progress. The pieces aren't going to mesh immediately and the stars aren't going to align from games 1 to 82. We have to do what we can in the mean time to change the culture for the better, and as it was mentioned earlier, it does look like these guys are hungry and want to win. The athleticism on this team is just plain exciting, there's no other way to describe it. I think VDN has the credibility in the locker room to hold these guys accountable and make sure they play up to their abilities. Long story short, I think we will still be okay this year. A few long losing streaks, a couple decent winning streaks. 33 to 39 wins maybe. Whatever, we will be okay and the improvement will keep coming.

tense2
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....Kaman is a good, not great player.

SamMays
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I think a player's weight is important... They should play at the weight where they are the quickest. NFL, NBA, they weigh their players in training camp because it matters. Everybody has their best playing weight and body type.. What's vitally important is how you get there... If you go on crash diet to lose weight, as Baron did when he first got here (Jenny Craig) it can be devastating... Perhaps that's what Kaman did...

The best players know that you keep at your best weight through conditioning and proper nutrition... Steve Nash doesn't balloon up in the off season and crash diet to make weight. He wouldn't be the player he is, or have the longevity he's had, if he did that... Baron and some other guys haven't learned that lesson and it's hurting their careers and hurting our team.

On a side note, if you remember Nash from early in his career, he did get a little heavy at times... Once he started taking care of his body year round, he became a superstar... That may not be the only reason for it, but it certainly contributed...

And look at Randolph's resurgence. It came as the result of conditioning he'd never done before...

BINGO!
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i went to 4 pre season games and Baron wasnt really playing serious. he looked relaxed and he was always either talking to the team or talking to people from other teams like Carmelo, Nene, and JR smith. i think he is trying to do so much that he get too tired quickly.

lets not forget Baron only played like 3 or 4 pre season games because of injury so im not surprised he looks tired.

BINGO!
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tense2 wrote:
BINGO! wrote:
oh and Kaman is a great player he shouldnt even be a concern.

....Kaman is a good, not great player.

i respect your opinion but i think Kaman is a great overall player

clipper*joe
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Well, pre-season games are not at the same speed as the regular season games. And kaman wasn't playing regular minutes in pre-season.

tense2
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BINGO! wrote:
tense2 wrote:
BINGO! wrote:
oh and Kaman is a great player he shouldnt even be a concern.

....Kaman is a good, not great player.

i respect your opinion but i think Kaman is a great overall player

...ok, depends how you define great. wink

clipper*joe
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Randolph's numbers didn't really fluctuate that much after he lost the weight. He's always been a 20-10 guy. He was just at the right place at the right time where he got the recognition he deserved. Improving a team like he did will get you that recognition. He looked more fit but his numbers were almost the same.

BACON
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Well it's no secret... But some of you may not know or realize that KAMAN was diagnosed with having A.D.D. (A mental disorder) Maybe he is on new medication to help with concentration and it's going to take extra time for him to adjust and get his shot back??? Just a thought guys??? And as far as DAVIS goes... Who knows what his real problem is? cry

clipper*joe
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No, Kaman was misdiagnosed with having ADD. The medication he was given was the problem, not him.

BACON
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clipper*joe wrote:
BACON wrote:
Well it's no secret... But some of you may not know or realize that KAMAN was diagnosed with having A.D.D. (A mental disorder) Maybe he is on new medication to help with concentration and it's going to take extra time for him to adjust and get his shot back??? Just a thought guys??? And as far as DAVIS goes... Who knows what his real problem is? cry

No, Kaman was misdiagnosed with having ADD. The medication he was given was the problem, not him.

roll

clipper*joe
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BACON wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
BACON wrote:
Well it's no secret... But some of you may not know or realize that KAMAN was diagnosed with having A.D.D. (A mental disorder) Maybe he is on new medication to help with concentration and it's going to take extra time for him to adjust and get his shot back??? Just a thought guys??? And as far as DAVIS goes... Who knows what his real problem is? cry

No, Kaman was misdiagnosed with having ADD. The medication he was given was the problem, not him.

roll

Chris Kaman Reveals Childhood Misdiagnosis on ESPN’s "Outside the Lines"

http://www.nba.com/clippers/news/kaman_ ... 80115.html

Very Happy

Jhay_Kidd#3
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I don't understand what ya'll see in Kaman, he's a terrible player! He slows down our offense and just doesn't fit our system. His low baskeball IQ stresses me out! Watching him miss shots, turn the ball over and his bad positioning on defense is so horrible to watch oh and yeah his offense is way too predictable. We waited this long for practically nothing. This guy is a bust! I just don't know how many more excuses you Kaman lovers can keep coming up with!

jcdigital
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LOL ^ He is half of our system....that is why we are losing because he isnt hitting.....watch the games closer on the offensive end and you will see us running basically 2 different sets, 1 with a high pick and roll and the other getting a low post entry for kaman.

Jhay_Kidd#3
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Point exactly! LoL. Our offensive sets are stupid! And that's why we should stop running our offense trough him so damn much!!! He just can't keep being our first option on offense. And if he does then we're screwed!

jcdigital
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if a new coach comes in and can recognize that kaman is very talented offensively to have them run part of the offense through him, I think kaman must be 10 times better then you make him out to be.

JamFan
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You can see Kaman's mental disorder affecting his game. He is OK physically and can hit the mid range jumper. But when is shooting certain chip shots around the hoop where he has to calculate angles of the board to shoot the ball, his shots go crazy, even over just a couple of feet. It is like his brain is good for spot up jumpers that are straight forward shots from 15 ft. But his brain is bad for quick decisions involving angles. Last night he was 3 ft from the bucket and he dribbled before he......messed up. It should have been a quick and easy dunk.

david
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He's missing a lot of jump shots Maybe the weight loss has something to do with it, but he's also not handling the double team too well, which is more of a mental thing. I hope he gets a sense of urgency in terms of getting his game back in order because the team desperately need him to play better.

clipsfansincebirth
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HE sucks........he isn't even just missing jumpers he is missing hook shots and layups from 6ft away...........he hit his potential and this is his declining. People need to hate on him more than baron......at least baron wasn't an All Star one year and then a bum the next. This drop off is unheard of for any all star.

clipper*joe
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^^ Which is why I think his weight loss is an issue. He's not finishing ( but his two dunks) around the rim. His jumper is off, his hook is off. His baseline jumper is off. You don't loss that touch unless you don't have your legs under you. And no, he doesn't suck.

Hooch20
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Kaman's fine. He's had two bad games and it's the end of the world. The entire team is bad right now. Lets give it a month or so and see how he looks. The offense sucks right now and the spacing is awful. The more games we play the better things will get. We have 8 new players and a new head coach. It's going to take time.

Grillinnap
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We need the 05-06 version of Kaman back. He doesn't need to be a 19 PPG center. That was when he scored 12 PPG and grabbed 9.5 RBP.

Kaman as a number 1 or 2 option = Tragedy

toohipcliptoslip
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How about three bad games. Ar guably he cost us two games. If he were scoring the paint it would take the pressure off BG. You can't double and triple two guys. Why didn't DJ play more? He was a beast.

clipperstown
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^^^ yeah exactly kaman not scoring is causing BG to get double and even triple teamed.

clipper*joe
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^^ BG wasn't doubled for most of the game. He had players close in on him but never really doubled.

toohipcliptoslip
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He once said he was surprised to still be a Clipper. Does he know he leaving and doesn't care?

SamMays
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Repped High Quality Post

When you don't have shooters on the perimeter, the defense collapses into the middle, making things tough for our post guys, Kaman and Griffin... Simple as that... Kaman and Griffin won't be able to operate at their best until they are surrounded by people who can make shots and draw the defense away from them... You can see the defense just backing off Baron and our perimeter players, daring them to shoot. And they either don't shoot, or toss up bricks.

We counted on Gomes 37%, Gordon 36% and Butler 33% to do the job. Fat chance... When will this franchise learn that you need people who can really shoot the ball. What are we averaging? About 85 points a game... You're not going to win much with that, because nobody is that good defensively.

Once I saw Olshey's moves this summer, I knew the only hope we had to be decent was if Blake Griffin was an instant superstar. Well, he's a hell of a player, but he's not Kevin Durrant.

toohipcliptoslip
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Sam, maybe they'll score what we thought. So far this season has been a cluster hump but except for Ricky Davis players do what they have done (unless they get old)

Patience Grasshopper

clipperboy24
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200 points alright. exactly whats happening and it sucks.

We dont have any players that pose a consistent outside threat (gordon could be but has been slumping hard). Until we have that, teams will cheat like they have been.

We need a James Jones, Anthony morrow who keeps you honest because they will jack up 3's if you sag on defense.

clipboard
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Steve Novak was in street clothing today?

SamMays
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Gordon has been an adequate outside shooter so far in his career, ranking 63rd in the league from 3 last year. Not bad, but not nearly good enough... And you can't just have one shooter. Teams can rotate to one guy and still collapse into the middle... You need one great shooter and two more guys like Gordon...

Based on this summer, I can only conclude that Olshey is virtually hopeless. He doesn't have the gravitas to overcome the Clipper stigma and draw players here. We need to get a well-respected GM immediately; one who can convince DTS to spend and players of solid calibre to give it a chance... Olshey's plan A was to put all his eggs in the Lebron basket and his ridiculous 45-minute presentation as if he ever had a chance... His plan B? Grab some stiffs no one else was competing for so they'd come cheap.

And we're going to pay a dear price for this failed Olshey experiment... If I were Gordon and Griffin, I'd be counting the days until I was out of here. I find it remarkable that neither has commented that playing for the Clippers is like being in jail...

We had our bright spot in the early 90's with Larry Brown... We had another in the mid 2000's with Dunleavy... At this rate, our next playoff appearance will be in about the year 2020.

SamMays
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I went back and checked... He was our 5th leading scorer that year... Gives you an indication of how little talent we have now... Because, he honestly deserved to be our number one option this year. He's our best and most consistent offensive player... If that doesn't tell you how bad we are I don't know what would.

Brand better than Griffin (though not for too much longer I hope)

Mobley better than Gordon

Maggette better than Aminu/Gomes/Butler combined.

Cassell way better than Baron...

Tim Thomas better than our entire bench.

Funny, we get rid of Maggette and get worse with Thornton... Then we get rid of Thornton and get worse with Gomes... I wonder who we'll get to replace Gomes.

clipper*joe
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Damn Sam, you do like to take things to another level. At the end of last season , you wanted a youth movement. You wanted to go the "Portland way" and rather have cap space. You got that. Then you complain about the players and now you want to bring in Melo. Then you want Olshey 's head.

Sam, what do you want? We have the youth movement. You want to build through the draft? We are. You want melo? You want DTS to spend money? Sam, you are all over the map. It's only 3 games so far and are falling apart.

What was your prediction for this season, Sam? If you had your expectations low, don't complain.

toohipcliptoslip
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CK is better now than that year but he has his thumb up his arse

Is BG better than EB probably by a factor of 2

Magettee was out almost all of the "good season" Q Ross and Radmanovich played

Cat was at a game recently looking good. Cat better than EJ ? No Cat couldn't crash the boards and EJ SHOULD be a better shooter.

Baron vs Sam You win

Remember, that year our bench sucked. Is there anyone except Miki Moore who's still in the NBA? Our bench is much better now

toohipcliptoslip
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BG will be better than EB wheb he develops a shot

lacsmoove
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We are extremely poor defensively and that relates to our poor overall play. If we play better D then guys will be able to play more loose on the offensive end. After 3 losses we need to start playing better and get these rookies need more playing time.

pageC4
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Kaman is starting off to a bad start for one reason:we finally have Blake Griffin at the front court. Remember the season when we went to the playoffs? Kaman wasn't really at his best because we still had Elton Brand at the power forward position taking away rebounds and points. In fact last year was a great season for Kaman that I predict will never happen again in the presence of another good power forward like Blake Griffin. That being said it's unfair to demand anywhere between 17-19 points per game. As long as he gives us 15 PPG and 10 RPG we are getting what we should realistically expect from him.

Where we should hold him to a better standard is on the defensive end, which to be quite honest he has never been good at.

For quite a long time Kaman never proved that he belonged on this team: injuries, turnovers, not finishing...etc. Last year he showed what he can do and he proved that he could be a major factor in the game. So he has earned some leniency, but should this slump continue then we can legitimately bash him. For now though we need to cut him some slack

StBrg
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I agree...if he gives us 15/10 that's great, just as long as he doesn't go 6-24 to get there

lacsmoove
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For whatever reason Kaman has played bad the first 3 games. That should not diminish what he has accomplished over his career. You have to know that he'll play much better than he has thus far. I confident he'll be fine. Problem is the team seems to have no chemistry yet, defensively or offensively. BD is gonna have to step up and elevate that. On another note, I've been very impressed with DJ. His play makes me more comfortable trading Kaman for Melo.

ClipTrip
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Here are just a few reasons why Kaman is very overrated and is on his way to be an Olowakandi reincarnate: 1) He's the biggest guy on the court and plays like the smallest guy on the court 2) Always a step behind the defensive rotation. How many times does he let a PG lay it up in his face, or get there just in time to catch the ball out of the net? 3) He shoots the ball every time he touches it. 4) 20-40 percent of his defensive rebounds come from missed free throws 5) Around the rim he plays like a PG.....

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clipperstown
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Here are just a few reasons why Kaman is very overrated and is on his way to be an Olowakandi reincarnate: 1) He's the biggest guy on the court and plays like the smallest guy on the court 2) Always a step behind the defensive rotation. How many times does he let a PG lay it up in his face, or get there just in time to catch the ball out of the net? 3) He shoots the ball every time he touches it. 4) 20-40 percent of his defensive rebounds come from missed free throws 5) Around the rim he plays like a PG.....

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clipper*joe
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Here are just a few reasons why Kaman is very overrated and is on his way to be an Olowakandi reincarnate: 1) He's the biggest guy on the court and plays like the smallest guy on the court 2) Always a step behind the defensive rotation. How many times does he let a PG lay it up in his face, or get there just in time to catch the ball out of the net? 3) He shoots the ball every time he touches it. 4) 20-40 percent of his defensive rebounds come from missed free throws 5) Around the rim he plays like a PG.....

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ClipTrip
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Do you remember the talk of Olowakandi moving into the upper echelon of centers? Remember when people wondered if he was the 2nd best center in the league?

Does Kaman make the all star team if others (Yao, etc) are not injured? The league is devoid of centers, so an easier position to become an All Star.

It is a comparison of the road he can go down with being overhyped. Games are very similar in their mental approach, shot selection, and defensive deficiencies.

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