Lisa Dillman: Los Angeles Clippers do just fine without BD

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journeyman
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Actually, unencumbered by the perpetual frustration of "Waiting for Baron," the Clippers looked as if they played better without him.

Their previously inept offense -- averaging a league-low 87.5 points a game coming into Wednesday -- looked as if it got a shot of 5-hour energy drink before the game.

Bledsoe -- the rookie out of Kentucky you probably haven't heard of because there was this other really good point guard in Lexington last season -- was electric.

"I like the way he plays," said Gordon, who led all scorers with 27 points. "He's running full speed the whole game. ... He brings us a lot of energy. He pushes the ball. He really changes the game.

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/n ... id=5762925

Clipper-Josh
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BARON WHO?

ClipYourWings
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I'm happy Bledsoe looks good out there, but it's been one game. We beat the Lakers during the home-opener last year. To truly see whether or not Baron not playing is a good thing, there has to been a decent span of games we can measure the team's performance against....... one game is nothing.

ClipsAndBolts
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One game does mean nothing....However, our offense has looked a lot more fluid the last 2 games as opposed to our first 3 loses (with Baron/Foye running point). If Bledsoe keeps playing and gaining more experience, it can only get better Razz

Buddahfan
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Bledsoe or Bust Very Happy Very Happy

Buddahfan
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In all seriousness it was only his second NBA game of meaningful minutes.

However, as was mentioned above the offense moves better and it seems to me that the perimeter defense is also better.

Bledsoe is the future and should be the present also in my opinion.

Davis is a very bad contract that needs to be sold for as much as possible.

I do think that he could make for a useful, if not expensive, backup PG on a top four conference playoff seed team.

I would think that Olshey is probably looking around.

Blake, Bledsoe, EJ, Jordan and Aminu are all young and three of them are rookies. Gomes and Kaman are only 28, Foye is 27, Smith will be 27 in a few weeks.

Its time to move on and go with the young guys except for Butler. He does just fine at what his role is.

I doubt that Davis would be too happy backing up Bledsoe. People forget that Bledsoe was a PG and a very good one in HS. He only moved to the #2 at KY to accommodate John Wall. This of course made sense.

lacsmoove
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I understand everyones frustation with BD. Even with this knee injury, guys feel it's related to him being out of shape. He has some kind of cyst behind his knee that's causing swelling. Let him get healthy, hopefully Bledsoe continues to do great in his absence, and see how he does when he's back. If they both play great it'll only make us better. All I know is that if Bledsoe continues to play the way he did last night, either Foye or BD (more than likely Foye) are gonna be gettin' splinters.

dunc182
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Bledsoe is the future franchise point guard of the Clippers, no joke. He works so so well in tandem with Eric Gordon, they both play hard and fast and also very good D and it's very hard for other teams to have two guards that can counter that. It's not just one game either, he's looked good to me every time he's been on the court, even in the Spurs loss. Athleticism is everything and the speed at which this guy pushed the ball while still under full control just threw OKCs defense.

When we have fast bigs who run the floor we can become a very effective team. With Baron we are 0-3. With Bledsoe against tougher opponents we are 1-1although I know OKC didn't show up last night. But our lowest deficit was with Bledsoe against the spurs. I hope Baron's 'injury' is long term so we can see this guy just get better and better and start climbing the rookie ladder when he puts up numbers like this. It's time to sack Baron off and let him be a mentor because he can't shoot for sh!t and he'slost almost all of his athleticism. Oh and did I mention that Bledsoe can shoot? I think he's like 4-6 on threes or somethng, I'll have to check.

pageC4
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I've said this before in another post but I think a true measure of VDN's decision making skills will not be what plays he puts in place for a game but it will be whether he sits out a veteran player if a rookie is playing better. I remember back in Eric Gordons rookie year we still had Cuttino Mobley on the squad and he was the starting 2 guard. Cuttino was not playing well...probably averaging something around 13 PPG, and I wondered why Dunleavy wouldn't put in EJ. It took Dunleavy until januray to finally make the right call and put EJ in as the starter..we lost a lot of games because of that decision. I hope VDN doesn't hesitate and puts the right people in the game regardless of tenure

clipperboy24
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Anyone who has watched the Clippers the last 3 seasons can see that last night's game was probably one of the best we have played in that time period. We played hard on both sides, got our hands on the ball and played with heart.

What a surprise, we dd all this without Baron Wink The guy is a lazy cancer and it seems pretty clear from the player's body language they aent feeling him.

clipper*joe
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At this point, you can't break up this momentum. Maybe it's time to let Baron sit out at least this road trip to see if the Kid can handle the road. If Bledsoe can maintain similar numbers like has in the first 2 games, it would be a shame for him to just fall down the depth chart. If he maintains the same production, then I think he deserves the starting job for the remainder of the season. Kinda the same way a QB loses his job to a younger player while he's hurt.

I had to watch the game over last night cause I was doing work while watching it live and really didn't get a feel for it as a result. After sitting down and paying close attention, it was an amazing thing to see. Regardless of how bad the Thunder shot, Bledsoe was doing things I thought he could never do as a first year player. Love his demeanor on the floor, love his speed, and love that he is giving me plenty of highlights for the next video I'm giddy about starting this weekend. Smile

Yeah, you really have no leg to stand on if you think Baron deserves the starting spot when he returns. I have run out of excuses. You just have to keep going with the kid. At this point, Beldsoe has won the job fairly easily. Man, that was a great game.

clipperAndrew
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I dont know how people can still be Baron supporters. The guy has not lived up to half his contract. I would pay money to see Bledsoe and the young guns, the see baron play again. He needs to go. His time as a clipper is over. Why are people making excuses for him. He just does not care anymore. He has no heart and I rather lose 82 games this year and watch our young guys play hard, than win 30 games and see Baron shoot 29% from the field and ill advised 3s. We are not going anywhere with him holding the wheel, lets take a note from some of the other teams and build around Blake and Gordon and the rest of 25 and under group. Yes I sound like a broken record but I am done done done with Baron. I wish him well with another team, but honestly I too hope he stays out longer. Last night was awesome...lets keep it up! The team just looks happier out there with Bledsoe, as do the fans.

clipperboy24
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clipper*joe wrote:
lacsmoove wrote:
I understand everyones frustation with BD. Even with this knee injury, guys feel it's related to him being out of shape. He has some kind of cyst behind his knee that's causing swelling. Let him get healthy, hopefully Bledsoe continues to do great in his absence, and see how he does when he's back. If they both play great it'll only make us better. All I know is that if Bledsoe continues to play the way he did last night, either Foye or BD (more than likely Foye) are gonna be gettin' splinters.

At this point, you can't break up this momentum. Maybe it's time to let Baron sit out at least this road trip to see if the Kid can handle the road. If Bledsoe can maintain similar numbers like has in the first 2 games, it would be a shame for him to just fall down the depth chart. If he maintains the same production, then I think he deserves the starting job for the remainder of the season. Kinda the same way a QB loses his job to a younger player while he's hurt.

I had to watch the game over last night cause I was doing work while watching it live and really didn't get a feel for it as a result. After sitting down and paying close attention, it was an amazing thing to see. Regardless of how bad the Thunder shot, Bledsoe was doing things I thought he could never do as a first year player. Love his demeanor on the floor, love his speed, and love that he is giving me plenty of highlights for the next video I'm giddy about starting this weekend. Smile

Yeah, you really have no leg to stand on if you think Baron deserves the starting spot when he returns. I have run out of excuses. You just have to keep going with the kid. At this point, Beldsoe has won the job fairly easily. Man, that was a great game.

Exellent post Joe! I think with any team you need to keep it going if you have a good thing. With the Clipps this is exponentially true because honestly, how often do we really get good things going?

SamMays
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Joe, you're making me smile... Well said... Watch out. Smile

clipper*joe
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You have to. Despite our record, another win gets us in the thick of things. I was looking at the standings a while ago. We win on Friday, we've tied it up with Denver and are fighting for a play-off spot. I know it's early but every game counts.

One thing is for sure, we've found 3 solid players for the future. Bledsoe, BG, and EJ.

SamMays
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There is momentum for the first time in almost a year... You don't change when things are going well, whether its over the course of a season or in a game... If the second unit is expanding the lead, or cutting into the deficit, you leave them in until they're too tired to keep it up...

Likewise, over the season, if a combination is working, you can't change the chemistry... Because chemistry is a mystical thing that can't be measured by numbers. You can't say if I take out my 12 and 8 guy and replace him with a 16 and 9 guy we'll be better. It doesn't work like that... If the players like playing with Bledsoe better, and I think they do, they'll move more, work harder at both ends, pass the ball more willingly, etc.

The game needs to be fun for the players and I think playing with Baron has often sucked the joy out of the game for many of these guys, particularly Gordon. Gordon is thriving in Baron's absence, enjoying the new responsibility and all the extra touches and opportunities to create. He's showing he's a much more creative player than he ever was with Baron.

clipperAndrew
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clipper*joe wrote:
clipperboy24 wrote:

Exellent post Joe! I think with any team you need to keep it going if you have a good thing. With the Clipps this is exponentially true because honestly, how often do we really get good things going?

You have to. Despite our record, another win gets us in the thick of things. I was looking at the standings a while ago. We win on Friday, we've tied it up with Denver and are fighting for a play-off spot. I know it's early but every game counts.

One thing is for sure, we've found 3 solid players for the future. Bledsoe, BG, and EJ.

yup, its like when Chris Paul got hurt last year and Darin Collison lit it up as a rookie. This could be the same thing for us, except we wont be in a position to trade Bledsoe after this year. I know it is two games, but I know it could be the win, but it feels nice to be on this site and talk about something good. Even if we lost and Bledsoe played the way we did we would still be singing his praises! RISE UP! lol

SamMays
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clipper*joe wrote:
clipperboy24 wrote:

Exellent post Joe! I think with any team you need to keep it going if you have a good thing. With the Clipps this is exponentially true because honestly, how often do we really get good things going?

You have to. Despite our record, another win gets us in the thick of things. I was looking at the standings a while ago. We win on Friday, we've tied it up with Denver and are fighting for a play-off spot. I know it's early but every game counts.

One thing is for sure, we've found 3 solid players for the future. Bledsoe, BG, and EJ.

Yes, it's about winning until you're out of contention. If playing Bledsoe helps us win, then keep playing him... If, at some point, we're out of contention, then you play for your future, in which case you play Bledsoe even if Baron is as good...

If Baron does come back and can co-exist with Bledsoe as the starter, it will push Baron harder... I remember last year when we were out of it, Baron was dogging it... Then Steve Blake arrived with his non-stop hustle and you could actually see Baron play harder for fear of being embarrassed... Now it's a rookie who will be embarrassing him if he doesn't step up... If we're ever going to see Baron return to form (I personally doubt we will) it will be now... Now or never.

tense2
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..by the, EJ's PER for this season so far...20.2. small sample size, but big improvement over last year......oh and BG's so far 17.4. I'm hoping for a PER of +-20...puts in him some very good company for his rookie year.

JamFan
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We will have a hard time trading Baron because few teams have any cap space and BD's contract is huge. We will have to take back one or two contracts and one of them is likely to also be a bad contract. But if it is a shorter bad contract????? This is going to be tough to do unless Baron gets healthy, and gets in shape, and turns his game around. He's making franchise money but playing like a chump.

clipper*joe
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SamMays wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
clipperboy24 wrote:

Exellent post Joe! I think with any team you need to keep it going if you have a good thing. With the Clipps this is exponentially true because honestly, how often do we really get good things going?

You have to. Despite our record, another win gets us in the thick of things. I was looking at the standings a while ago. We win on Friday, we've tied it up with Denver and are fighting for a play-off spot. I know it's early but every game counts.

One thing is for sure, we've found 3 solid players for the future. Bledsoe, BG, and EJ.

Yes, it's about winning until you're out of contention. If playing Bledsoe helps us win, then keep playing him... If, at some point, we're out of contention, then you play for your future, in which case you play Bledsoe even if Baron is as good...

If Baron does come back and can co-exist with Bledsoe as the starter, it will push Baron harder... I remember last year when we were out of it, Baron was dogging it... Then Steve Blake arrived with his non-stop hustle and you could actually see Baron play harder for fear of being embarrassed... Now it's a rookie who will be embarrassing him if he doesn't step up... If we're ever going to see Baron return to form (I personally doubt we will) it will be now... Now or never.

At this point, you play the future. There isn't a reason to go back. If we start losing again, then I'd say create some sort of PG tandem offense where you alternate based on match-ups. This should be Baron's last year, too. Even if he's game to play the lesser role, it wouldn't be wise to keep him. I'd like to see Warren and Bledsoe running the PG spot nest season. I think this is the first time that we've had 2 very promising PG's at one time. I'm still not sure about Aminu but I wouldn't count him out.

We've got the pieces in place now where I am confident we will have a brighter future ahead. How can you not be happy right now.

clipperboy24
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Bledsoe and Warren need to get the majority of PT. Baron is old and done.

I also like how Aminu is getting incorporated. Growing him at a healthy pace and he has been having positive impacts on the games.

SamMays
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^^^ Aggreed... (I was actually agreeing with Joe, but was slow to post, but I agree with you too Clipperboy.)

I'm seeing traces from Aminu that suggest he might be okay down the road, but I still don't see him being much of an asset this year... He might be one of those guys who suddenly makes a big jump in his third year... Or not... If we end up with another high draft pick this year, I wouldn't be averse to spending it on another SF if we find someone who can really play.

FightOnRon
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In football you can sometimes tell when an offensive line, and an offense on the whole, will play better for a certain QB then another. I site for example my Oakland Raiders. Even though they stunk, last season the team played so much better when Jafatboy Russel was on the bench. Now he is gone and my team is getting better.

Do you guys see a similarity between that analogy and the Clippers? Maybe it's not Baron's skills but his attitude that brings down the team (how many times can you show up hurt and out of shape before the team feels it) ,,with him benched and albiet a better cast then last season, perhaps we finally saw the potential we all hoped for this season.

Now what's Kamans deal?

clipperAndrew
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People are fed with Baron becasue of his attitude more than his playing, although he has not been great. His numbers are there but inflated due too many shots. His assits are good and him and Kaman seemd to have developed a good chemistry last year, but it is no longer his team and I think the rest of the team are done looking up to him. Gordon is the leader of this team. You can see it on the court. He his yelling and shouting things at players and demanding the ball. And speaking up to the press. Baron is going to be an Allan Iverson type, not expecting his downfall or his role. If he is on this team this year or next and playing significant minutes with Bledsoe showing major improvment this year, I will be very very disappointed that the team doesnt cut its losses and "arenas" him. I like that VDN calls him out and I think VDN will bench him if he does not show improvment, when healthy. VDN doesn't back down from his players and the players will respect him.

clipperboy24
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that's what i have thought since about 20 games into the 08-09 season.

Its not Baron's skills but his attitude and effort. I think even not having him on the bench was so great for the team.

lacsmoove
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Fighton, I see where you're coming from. Russell was a complete bust who got a huge contract before he took one NFL snap. And when they finnally put in Gradkowski, the team played much better. Now they have Campbell who has many years as a starter under his belt and success in Washington. He started off slow this year and was replaced by Gradkowski. But now Campbell got the nod back and has led to two huge wins and is setting records.

dee
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I know it's just 2 games. The other teams will start scouting Bledsoe and finding out how to defend him, like they did with Brandon Jennings. From what I saw last night, it looks like Bledsoe has the speed and shot to be a good NBA PG. EJ and Bledsoe are a good backcourt combination.

Regarding Baron, Dunleavy did not like him before we signed him, calling him a 'chucker'. GSW did not either, and did not offer him an extension. But we needed a PG really bad and that was the only way to get Felton Brand to stay, so he signed him. Baron has no jump shot, so he needs to rely on his speed to get to the basket. His speed and his motivation are declining. I'm sure the front office has been thinking about trading him, put are careful not to say anything publicly so as not to erode his trade value.

I say Baron's knee stays 'sore' for a few more games and we see how Bledsoe/Gordon works out. C'mon, we all know that not 100% of injury reports are truthful. If it works out, Bledsoe gets the majority of minutes. Baron's contract expires in the season after next. Maybe he can be traded as an expiring contract next year to a team that wants to clear cap room.

My hats off to the FO for picking up Bledsoe at #18 and skipping a horrible draft next year if Bledsoe turns out to be a star.

Afm
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I love bd, but this is getting out of hand. At this point he's not going to bring the needed fire every night and that's not good enough. Too bad no team would be stupidenough to trade for him and his contract. Maybe trading kamn for melo will overshadow bd and he can just kick it on the bench and make a documentary about the clippers or something.

Also please no one compare bd to j russel. No one deserves to be in the same league as russel who is by far the greatest bust in the history of busts.

Afm
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I love bd, but this is getting out of hand. At this point he's not going to bring the needed fire every night and that's not good enough. Too bad no team would be stupidenough to trade for him and his contract. Maybe trading kamn for melo will overshadow bd and he can just kick it on the bench and make a documentary about the clippers or something.

Also please no one compare bd to j russel. No one deserves to be in the same league as russel who is by far the greatest bust in the history of busts.

SeahawkClip
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After what was seen last night you gotta be impressed with Bledsoe. Thats the first game I've seen in a long time where it looked like a new energy out there thats consisted through the WHOLE game. Great game last night reguardless of how poor OKC shot, we just played good defense. Oh and another plus about this guy is his hops, man he has good rebounding skills as a PG so far.

Also if Baron did play off the bench, even better for us.

mj_shoefanatic
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Never knew 31 y/o was "old and done" roll

realbull17
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eric bledsoe was amazing. baron davis stay injured. lol. Smile

ClipfanSince88
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MJSF wrote:
clipperboy24 wrote:
Baron is old and done.

Never knew 31 y/o was "old and done" roll

It can be when you don't take care of yourself, lack motivation and discipline, and start to be chronically injured. If you're MJ, David Robinson, Kobe or people like that, then 31 is still young and far from done. Baron is not in that group. I wouldn't say that Baron's done yet, but he's a lot closer to being done than he is to being in his prime.

SamMays
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One of the things you see Bledsoe doing a lot is jumping to the offensive boards. So far when he's done that the shots have gone in, or bounced away from him, but one day soon he's going to get a spectacular put back dunk... As exciting as that will be, I think as a PG he might be better off getting back on D.

And, I think Baron is old and done at 31... Sad, but that's the price athletes pay for not taking care of their bodies year round. I know that at 31 I was old and done as a park league player and I think my off-season conditioning plan was much the same as Baron's... Beer, good restaurants and making movies.

ClipfanSince88
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Yeah, Aminu's stand still shot is better than I expected. He's also pretty good in transition and offensive rebounding. If you ask him to do anything off the dribble, its a problem. But I definitely think he's got some promise.

ClippersSince97
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hahahahah!

clipsfansincebirth
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Baron Davis should back up Bledsoe and then Warren should be after him or get rid of foye and davis and go with bledsoe and warren

Greenmonk94
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argreed!!!!!!

FightOnRon
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Wasn't comparing JaBust to BD,,was just making an anology that many here will agree with. You could find many examples in sports that is just the one that popped into this Raiders fan's mind.

Funny,,,make a documentary

mj_shoefanatic
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take that BD haters!

jarca
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MJSF wrote:
clipperboy24 wrote:
Baron is old and done.

Never knew 31 y/o was "old and done" roll

when ur fat and out of shape then i guess ur old and done at 31

mj_shoefanatic
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It still hasn't been confirmed that he's fat.

link? source? Confused

jarca
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this is baron davis after his so called knee injury. look at how much weight he gained! lol

clipperstown
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jarca wrote:
MJSF wrote:
It still hasn't been confirmed that he's fat.

link? source? Confused

this is baron davis after his so called knee injury. look at how much weight he gained! lol

lol lol lol

journeyman
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MJSF wrote:
clipperboy24 wrote:
Baron is old and done.

Never knew 31 y/o was "old and done" roll

Stephon Marbury? Steve Francis? Allen Iverson? Tracy McGrady? Terrel Brandon? Michael Olowokandi? Eddy Curry? Oliver Miller?

Prima donnas, headcases and fatbodies tend to wash up faster (T. Brandon the exception on this list).

journeyman
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People don't just join Jenny Craig for fun.

ClipShow1
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Baron better be careful or he's going to start looking like this guy.

Ross!!!

clipperboy24
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MJSF wrote:
clipperboy24 wrote:
Baron is old and done.

Never knew 31 y/o was "old and done" roll

age ain't nothin' but a number. Steve Nash has proved that beautifully... Baron on the other hand... well he makes 31 look like a grandpa out there.

Every player who wants to extend their career needs to play smarter. Baron has not done this, hence his continual injuries. Also he refuses to condition year round and always thinks that he will miraculously be in shape and what a surprise he never is. Then when he loses weight he isnt used to being in that shape and gets injured... the guy is just a cancer at this point.

SeahawkClip
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jarca wrote:
MJSF wrote:
It still hasn't been confirmed that he's fat.

link? source? Confused

this is baron davis after his so called knee injury. look at how much weight he gained! lol

He looks like a bum you'd find under a freeway.... Oh and we dont post enough pictures on this site! Very Happy

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