Get Rid of Kaman

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JTClipper
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He's inconsistent, and way too injury prone. I'm pretty sure some team lacking a big man would gladly give hefty cash considerations for him, or even possibly a relatively good player. Obviously we're in need of a stable SF, and even a backup center. Deandre is blossoming wonderfully, and even with the back up center gap I think we can run a small center on our 2nd squad. Gomes and Aminu play in spurts and are average at best. If the Clips are going to push for a playoff spot this year or next, they are going to have to fill that SF void. Maybe Tayshaun Prince from Detroit, or (Al Thornton +cash considerations) from the Wizards. The Clippers have been playing better this year with Kaman out. Last year he appeared as an all star, but lets get real. There was no other scoring presence in the post for the clips, and Eric Gordon was the only other gun out there. If you have been a Clipper fan since Chris Kaman entered the league you'd know that he plays in spurts, and is rather clumsy and lackadaisical. I mean we love him, but we have to get real. Blake Griffin, Bledsoe, Gordon, and Deandre are the future. Time to start filtering out the handicaps on the team. Including B-diddy and Kaman. B-diddy is a completely different subject and I'll save that for another thread. Please give me your opinions on the Chris Kaman matter.

LotsoHope
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Respectfully disagree, Kaman is a keeper unless we get equal or greater trade value in return for him. As well as Deandre has played so far, he's not a consistent starting C (yet) and I believe Kaman can be an incredible 3rd scoring option for this team, behind Gordon and Griffin. Kaman has played All-Star level performance for an entire season while Deandre has not. The problem with losing Kaman right now is that after Deandre at the 5 we have Collins, who is really just cannon fodder. I just don't see a SF in the current market that can make up for losing a quality center, and we already have to find ways to split minutes among our wing players in Aminu, Gomes, and Butler, so to make room for a quality SF we'd have to cut one of those three as well.

More than likely, when Kaman, Cook, and Smith returns, we will waive Collins and use Cook or Diogu as a 3rd string C in rare instances, but clearly neither Cook nor Diogu will be playing a pure 5. With the way Cook and Diogu are playing, I find it hard to see how management will cut either of them in favor of Collins. It's unfortunate though that among Smith, Cook, and Diogu, VDN will have to DNP one of those three for a number of games, especially since all three are putting up solid performances for their roles.

Let's not write off Kaman yet until we've actually seen him play for extended minutes with this team.

Derty_Bert
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At this point we still need Kaman because we don't have a starting center. As well as DJ has been playing, he's still a backup.

JTClipper
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Well we did get a little taste of Kaman with the dream squad. If I recall correctly most of those games were L's. Kaman would not be able to put up numbers anywhere close to his numbers last year with Griffin on the floor and Gordon getting better each game. One thing in Kaman's favor is the extra room he is going to have for shots. No double teams and an open floor. Only problem is that with gimme oppurtunities he messes up so much its ridiculous. He probably has the highest airball layup record than anyone in the league. Does anyone recall how many fourth quarter mistakes Kaman would make last year? All those close games? He can't finish, and in my opinion the ball should be no where near him the closing minutes of a game. And on the matter of Diogu, Cook, and Collins. Obviously all three of these guys are trash. Diogu has had a couple lucky games, but he's way too small and can't grab boards to save his life. Cook has lost his 3 point shot and that's all he's suppossed to be good at. Collins is out of shape and can't play the game. They put him in the game when Griffin fouled out of the Suns game the other night and the only thing he did was make a couple of free throws, but missed some crucial layups and boards down the stretch. Right now the clippers have won 5 of their last 6 and i stress without Chris Kaman. So right away what have our problems been lately. Back up Center, and SF. Rasual Butler is imo a lil better than average SF, but Vinny has his head so far up his butt that he's not playing him, and instead is puttin in Gomes (how many teams has that guy been on again?). So, imagine if we did make a trade for a very good SF and added him right away to the squad we have playing now. I'd imagine that this win streak would definitely continue. If possible maybe the clips could clear out cookie, gomes, and diagu for an (ok) back up center. But yeah Kaman deserves extended minutes with this team to prove what he can do, but what he has shown early this season and in the past puts me in a state of disbelief in him as a key contributor in this "New" Clipper Team.

FightOnRon
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THe oter night whne the Suns were playing HAck-a-dj,,,what would it have looked like with hack-a-kaman

tense2
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Never been big fan of Mr. Net Zero....so hopefully we can get back something we need for this "all-star" with a LTPER OF 14.5....maybe wait until next yr when he will be an expiring contract....whatever, he ain't the Clippers future plans anyway IMHO.

JTClipper
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Very good point, but at least Deandre can finish strong at the rim. Unlike Caveman's airballs and brick layups that are all over youtube. If your a Clipper fan you know that kaman does dumb stuff like this ALL the time.

jcdigital
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^They would have done hack a Griff cuz kaman is a much better FT shooter than BG. And Kaman makes us a contender for a 8th seed. With out him, playoffs are near unattainable. Just as someone else said, Kaman would be a guy to go to that can also relieve BG from the double and triple teams. With DJ in, teams can double all day in the post because DJ cant be effective from anywhere other than 5ft from the basket. Kaman is a keeper unless we can get someone of greater or equal value absolutely. There is no way we give him up for just cash. That would be the most ridiculous trade, even worse than the Gasol trade.

Derty_Bert
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FightOnRon wrote:
Derty_Bert wrote:
At this point we still need Kaman because we don't have a starting center. As well as DJ has been playing, he's still a backup.

THe oter night whne the Suns were playing HAck-a-dj,,,what would it have looked like with hack-a-kaman

Kaman is a better FT shooter than Griffin and DJ.

JTClipper
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My point is that were doing fine without Kaman right now. This whole hack a DJ thing has just become apparent cause of that last Suns game.

JTClipper
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Don't get me wrong I know DJ can't make a free throw to save his life, but still better finisher in the paint with closing seconds. Remember that last dunk he had during that lakers game a couple weeks ago? The dunk before the winning fisher layup. He's proven he can close in that way.

LotsoHope
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The anti-Kaman and pro-Kaman camps will see the situation their way, so regardless of whatever points are posted on here, it's not going to sway opinions among both camps.

Debating about it is a moot point anyway - until our front office finds an acceptable trade for Kaman (and who knows what their stance since the Melo deal fell through), he WILL be put in the starting lineup because of his talent and salary, and VDN will have to find a way to work him into the system. The positives are that Kaman acknowledges that his role will have to change in this new team, and his struggles are a mental aspect, who's to say he doesn't get the easy buckets when he knows that he's not the primary option?

Quality centers are much harder to find than quality small forwards in this league, let's not forget that. And judging Kaman from the minutes he's played early this season before his ankle injury is a very limited assessment, since our 1-2 punch and the rest of the team weren't in full stride yet and VDN was still using Kaman as a #1 or #2 option.

Diogu and Cook are not trash. Diogu grabs boards and can score in the paint, while Cook has been hitting his 3s prior to his injury. They play their roles and so far they've been playing them well.

ponlork
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does anybody remember the time when Kaman was going up for a wide open layup while he was fouled but as he was going up he just brought the ball down and didn't finish? I wish there was a clip of that on youtube, that's gotta be the most ridiculous thing i've ever seen.

Something is just not right with this guys head. He has 1 victory under his belt all year, i'll be happy to see him go, let him be someone elses problem. Anybody who watches the clippers long enough knows Chris Kaman crumbles under pressure, he averages like 4 WTF Moments every game, I'm surprised with the tolerance level you guys have with this guy, for real year after year it's like you guys threat him like he's a little baby or something. Man up grow some balls, no excuses if you going to make Baron the scapegoat out of every loss we ever suffered even in games where he had Zero Participation in, despite him being 7-8 this year when starting and finishing then you gotta put some blame on Chris Kaman too especially earlier in the season when he was playing horrendous. There's no doubt in my mind if Kaman didn't choke in those early games the Clippers would have strung together some victories and went into the season with a full head of steam.

"I'm surprised I'm still here. I'm a creature of habit and I hate change. I hate changing stuff but also sometimes there's a need to change," said Chris.

He has a Loser's mentality, he's addicted to losing and he just doesn't like change. Plus he lacks heart, remember when he was asked about the clippers losing he said "It's typical Clippers". I'm done with this guy, unless we have someone like a Cassell who was grilling him from ear to ear on the floor, I say we ship the guy

JTClipper
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Ok, that was a bit blunt, but I agree.

ClippersSince97
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^^ very valid points. he is a top 5 center with his agility and versatility BUT that's only during the first half. second half, he folds like a lawn chair and can't handle the pressure down the stretch. and one of those quotes were from when he was asked about the trade rumors to detroit. he seems like a lost case but just like baron is on the road to redemption with this new team, i say we see what kaman has to offer playing beside blake since he knows the pressure will be off of him from now on.

JTClipper
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IF he grows back his long hair with the bald spot in the middle, we'll be in the playoffs again.

imisscliptalk
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When Brand was on the team he played very well with that supportive roll. But when EB left DUmbleavy ran every play through him as if he was ready to be THE GUY. He is not that caliber of player and never will be. But now that we have griffin drawing the doubles, EJ spreading the floor and Baron starting to look like BOoM DIZZLE, THe floor is going to open up HUGE for Kaman. He isnt gonna have all that pressure he had last year and he will settle more into that luxury/supporting roll every team needs(kinda like when we had brand). Then we can have DJ come of the bench to dunk the **** out of the ball every play. KEEP KAMAN!!!!

LotsoHope
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^ Good point about Kaman with Brand, the playoff team worked back then and Kaman played well enough behind Cassell and Brand to get him a nice contract. One thing to note about BG passing out of double-team... it's much easier to pass to an open Kaman for a mid-range jumper than it is to pass to Deandre hanging around near the rim since opposing teams crowd the paint when Griffin has the ball. I love Deandre, but having Kaman receiving a pass from Griffin gives us more scoring options, even accounting for Kaman being an open layup choke artist.

OptimusDimes
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I couldn't agree with you more. Though at times I try to tell myself it can work out with Kaman, my brain tells me different. I would like to get a guy like Hawes back. Someone we could legitimately place behind Jordan without to much rumblings about it.

The biggest fears that I have about Kaman is his lack and unwillingness to pass the ball. For all of the lip service Kaman gave before he came back the first time about knowing his role and all that BS, soon as Kaman got the ball pass to him he was still jacking. More just happened to go in so no one noticed as much. I hate seeing this dude talking to our younger players "imparting his wisdom". This the same guy Brand, Cassell, and Baron had to constantly baby sit during games telling what he should have done, while his mind is who knows thinking about explosives, like homer simpson thinking about donuts.

He is a ball stopper and not a good decision maker passing out of doubles. His hand eye coordination is a step slow at times on D, and he gets beat or fouls on plays where he had the advantage.

Great teams have great passers. This aint rocket science. People wonder why when shooters come to the clippers they lose their stroke. It's not a curse, it's bad ball movement. You need at least two good passer on your team to be competitive in this league. BD & BG are great for their respective positions. Gordon is decent but getting better. We need one more decent to good passer in the starting lineup imo, not another shooter. Good passes make great shooters.

For all of the DJ naysayers out there talking about he isn't starter material...seriously? I mean did I miss something but i recall we are winning and playing pretty good team D with him out there. He doesn't need to do anything other than what he is doing.

LAC_12
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In case we don't pay attention, people double Blake with guards. Considering, our 2s and 3s are not the biggest 3-pt threats. Kaman will do nothing as far as double teaming on Blake.

Also, you guys are killing it with the "Kaman is an All Star"... The dude was a injury replacement, and was not a chosen All Star. I'm not saying he didn't deserve it, but he definitely does not hold enough weight for people to go flaunting he's a bonafide All Star.

With all that said, I say Kaman is a very important part of this team. Defensively, he can gaurd the DHowards, Shaqs, and other "Big Men" that may prove to be too much for DJ.

Tradeable? I say... Yes, but with a very worthy acquisition. Kaman may not be blockbuster big, but he is good enough bait for something worthwhile.

mj_shoefanatic
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This should be the only reason why we keep him if it happens. Razz

dee
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Kaman is not a bad player, so the Clippers need to get good value for him. I would be hesitant to trade him, since he is a big man who can block and make FT's, for that reason alone the Clippers need him for crunch time. DJ is liablity. There is a dearth of big men who can do that. Just look at the All star ballot for C in the West.

tense2
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...Kaman is not a top 5 center in any half...

LotsoHope
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DJ is playing great right now and we're racking up wins but the quality of our opponents haven't exactly been stellar. Like I said, I love Deandre, he grabs boards, defends well when not fouling, and dunks like a beast, but he has almost no post moves and he has butterfingers when it comes to receiving passes. Kaman is nowhere near perfect but a better option as a starting C than DJ. Having both Kaman and DJ will make us a much stronger team and I have no problem with Kaman and DJ evenly splitting minutes. It's nice to have that option to choose among these two players to go on the floor, and our team will be hurting over a long season if we have to rely soley on DJ and Collins to hold down the 5.

Kaman's All Star status does have an asterisk but his stats don't - 18.5 and 9.3 with 49% shooting last season is pretty darn good for a NBA center. Yes he had way too many touches during that season, but if he can hover around 50%-60% shooting and keep his TOs down, he will be a great piece to keep around.

clipperboy24
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I like Kaman a lot and he fits in well with this team. He finally payed well against the jazz and we went to double OT and then he tweaked his ankle the next game in a freak accident. This team is much better off with Kaman, but he makes very blatant mistakes that the average fan has a hard time getting over. if you look at his overall impact he is a very valuable plaer, and he plas hard on both sides of the court.

Playoffs arent happening this year, but if we can get Kaman in and meshing this team is gonna be looking great

bballman
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bottom line here is folks,they are winning without Kaman.i like Kaman but i think he would be better off the bench where they are in desperate need of some offense.the starting lineup is the group who have been building big leads.they lose those leads and momentum when the second unit comes in.he can provide some much needed scoring.as far as DJ getting fouled late,i actually like it.i thought they had lots of possessions where they had nothing going.DJ did make a couple of free throws which helped put points on the board at a time when they were getting nothing else from the set offense.if he makes one out of two every time,it could benefit the Clips.

LotsoHope
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Just out of curiousity from the Kaman haters, who would be your top 5 centers? No PFs like Amare, Pau, or Duncan that plug in the 5 spot, I mean true centers.

I imagine for sure Dwight and Yao, maybe Bynum and Shaq, though the last three mentioned have serious health issues right now and I don't even think Bynum is that great b/c he's so inconsistent even when healthy. Al Horford and Marc Gasol could make that list... but other than those names, this isn't a very long list.

clipper*joe
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"Finish strong at the rim". Like that sentence. There's DJ's game in a nutshell. Take him away from the rim and you have a guy who rarely sees time on the court. DJ works well in the current system because he just has to wait for a guard or wing to penetrate and dish him the ball. He tends to lose easy balls a lot and you can count on him to get a 3 second violation at least once in every game.

Kaman is a better overall player...NO QUESTIONING that.

clipper*joe
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In case we don't pay attention, people double Blake with guards. Considering, our 2s and 3s are not the biggest 3-pt threats. Kaman will do nothing as far as double teaming on Blake. Also, you guys are killing it with the "Kaman is an All Star"... The dude was a injury replacement, and was not a chosen All Star. I'm not saying he didn't deserve it, but he definitely does not hold enough weight for people to go flaunting he's a bonafide All Star. With all that said, I say Kaman is a very important part of this team. Defensively, he can....

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xldicelx
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that goes for the rest of the team too... such as EJ and BG

bballman
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Kaman is a much better player than DJ,no question about it.i think what we are saying is that DJ may fit with this style and group better than Kaman can.the first unit is about run and gun and you need to have legs and athleticism to keep up.kaman is more of a set offense kind of guy.i like DJ for his mentality to dunk everything.love that about him.he does make bone head mistakes like dumb goaltending plays and gets called for 3 seconds in the lane.would we rather have him stand outside and watch someone else get the rebound or let his man score with no contest?he is good for at least 2 turnovers a game,that's a given but Kaman turns it over also,and misses easy layups when he should be dunking them.either way,both guys have their faults.i like the fact that DJ does not slow the offense down the way Kaman does at times.i do like Kaman off the bench if they decide to keep him.

OptimusDimes
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clipper*joe wrote:
JTClipper wrote:
Very good point, but at least Deandre can finish strong at the rim. Unlike Caveman's airballs and brick layups that are all over youtube. If your a Clipper fan you know that kaman does dumb stuff like this ALL the time.

"Finish strong at the rim". Like that sentence. There's DJ's game in a nutshell. Take him away from the rim and you have a guy who rarely sees time on the court. DJ works well in the current system because he just has to wait for a guard or wing to penetrate and dish him the ball. He tends to lose easy balls a lot and you can count on him to get a 3 second violation at least once in every game.

Kaman is a better overall player...NO QUESTIONING that.

That's not the point. The point is who fits the system better. DJ gets passes at the elbow and quickly gets rid of the ball.

Kaman gets the ball at the elbow and takes 7- 10 seconds to decide if he should pass and if he doesn't, what super goofy dribble drive movel he's about to whip out.

I really blame Dun for Kaman being the way he is. He has always been the one trying to make Kaman more than what he is at this level, and now it's hard for someone with kaman mental capacity with the game of bball on the fly to try and change the program.

DJ fits the system.

Icecoldclipper
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clipper*joe wrote:
JTClipper wrote:
Very good point, but at least Deandre can finish strong at the rim. Unlike Caveman's airballs and brick layups that are all over youtube. If your a Clipper fan you know that kaman does dumb stuff like this ALL the time.

"Finish strong at the rim". Like that sentence. There's DJ's game in a nutshell. Take him away from the rim and you have a guy who rarely sees time on the court. DJ works well in the current system because he just has to wait for a guard or wing to penetrate and dish him the ball. He tends to lose easy balls a lot and you can count on him to get a 3 second violation at least once in every game.

Kaman is a better overall player...NO QUESTIONING that.

Problem here is those same remarks can be made about Kaman. He has a stronger mid-range game and FT shooting but in no way does he not sure up the mistakes Jordan makes offensively. Also can be said that what Kaman does offensively better than Jordan Jordan does defensively better than Kaman.

Personally want to keep Kaman only because he can provide the 3rd scoring option we need desperately but he has to get his act together. Even during his All Star year he still had Floppy modes and Baron gave one hell of a year to help suppot and feed Kaman.

LotsoHope
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To expand on this point, it's generally easier for moderately talented players to get better stats on losing teams because they're expected to carry most of the load. However, the fact that Kaman got the league's nod as an All Star reserve speaks well of his playing ability beyond just his stats.

Kaman put up nearly 20 and 10 last year. Him putting up 12-15 and 8 per game consistently with fewer minutes should be attainable. With DJ contributing about 6-8 per game in points and rebounds, the main thing we have to worry about these two guys is turnovers, which has historically been a problem for both players and the team as a whole.

clipperboy24
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we are winning against crap opponents. Everyone is acting like the team is playoff bound. I love seeing the team win but i am not jumping on the bandwagon that says the squad in its current form is great and going to continue winning. We need Kaman's play to be able to compete. DJ is a great backup bu he has way too many holes in his game.

But, if we could pick up a good SF i would support trading Kaman. He is a very valuable piece of this team and we defnitely need his contributions. We almost lost last night to a terrible team in the Kings. We are far from playing great, its just our opponents have not been great.

Once we start beating good opponents then we can say no need for Kaman. But until then, we very much need Kaman.

LotsoHope
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Clippers don't exactly have an established system, we're still figuring a lot of things out. The general trend I've seen is that DJ works better on offense with Bledsoe, while Kaman and BD have better chemistry on offense, so in terms of the system you speak of, I think it depends highly on who's running point.

clipper*joe
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Not totally buying based on stats this season. Kaman is averaging just as much blocks as Jordan...In Kaman's slow start. Kaman as of now, is out rebounding Jordan (7.10 to 6.3). Kaman doesn't get a 3 second violation in every game. Jordan gets at least one a game.

kaman can spread the floor with his outside shooting. Jordan can't do that to help BG. Kaman does run the floor well despite what a lot of people think here.

I do think baron helped Kaman with his numbers but I'd say half those shots were out about 15 feet.

ClipsandBuffs
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I like Kaman, but Kaman also turns the ball over down the stretch in every game because he over dribbles the ball. He needs to come out like he did last year when the season began...don't think and just shoot. Kaman has a lot of potential but it honestly needs to be drilled into his head to not put the ball on the floor when he is in the paint attacking the hoop.

Also, Kaman does not affect shots nearly as much as DJ does. Due to DJ's lengthiness, he is able to alter a lot of shots (good example = against Nash the other night).

I agree we shouldn't be hasty to pull the trigger on a Kaman trade because I feel like we can get something of value for him, but I also would not be heartbroken to see Kaman go.

Wouldn't mind offering Washington Kaman for McGee + Hinrich but I doubt they'd go for it.

Cliptonyte
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clipper*joe wrote:
Icecoldclipper wrote:

Problem here is those same remarks can be made about Kaman. He has a stronger mid-range game and FT shooting but in no way does he not sure up the mistakes Jordan makes offensively. Also can be said that what Kaman does offensively better than Jordan Jordan does defensively better than Kaman.

Personally want to keep Kaman only because he can provide the 3rd scoring option we need desperately but he has to get his act together. Even during his All Star year he still had Floppy modes and Baron gave one hell of a year to help suppot and feed Kaman.

Not totally buying based on stats this season. Kaman is averaging just as much blocks as Jordan...In Kaman's slow start. Kaman as of now, is out rebounding Jordan (7.10 to 6.3). Kaman doesn't get a 3 second violation in every game. Jordan gets at least one a game.

kaman can spread the floor with his outside shooting. Jordan can't do that to help BG. Kaman does run the floor well despite what a lot of people think here.

I do think baron helped Kaman with his numbers but I'd say half those shots were out about 15 feet.

Kaman also averages more minutes than DJ, so they are basically the same in those areas. I saw DJ touch at least one of Steve Nash's shots against the Suns the other night, and he never was credited with a block. I've seen that a few times this season. DJ is more intimidating defensively than Kaman, though Kaman is a pretty good shot blocker in his own right. Kaman is a better defensive rebounder, while DJ is a better offensive rebounder. Don't forget that Kaman is also about 7 years older than DJ.

DJ is more efficient than Kaman. He's also not going to turn over the ball as much as Kaman, because he won't touch it as much. Kaman is a better player, but the gap between them isn't as large as some of you make it out to be...

clipperloyal11
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OptimusDimes wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
JTClipper wrote:
Very good point, but at least Deandre can finish strong at the rim. Unlike Caveman's airballs and brick layups that are all over youtube. If your a Clipper fan you know that kaman does dumb stuff like this ALL the time.

"Finish strong at the rim". Like that sentence. There's DJ's game in a nutshell. Take him away from the rim and you have a guy who rarely sees time on the court. DJ works well in the current system because he just has to wait for a guard or wing to penetrate and dish him the ball. He tends to lose easy balls a lot and you can count on him to get a 3 second violation at least once in every game.

Kaman is a better overall player...NO QUESTIONING that.

That's not the point. The point is who fits the system better. DJ gets passes at the elbow and quickly gets rid of the ball.

Kaman gets the ball at the elbow and takes 7- 10 seconds to decide if he should pass and if he doesn't, what super goofy dribble drive movel he's about to whip out.

I really blame Dun for Kaman being the way he is. He has always been the one trying to make Kaman more than what he is at this level, and now it's for someone with kaman mental capacity with the game of bball on the fly to try and change the program.

DJ fits the system.

I have to agree with this. And am I the only one seeing some Marcus Camby in DJ lately? He's been using his length and athleticism to tip rebounds away from people and to his teammates. That can't be said about Kaman. What Kaman does better than DJ are already things we have in Blake, only Blake does it better and more efficiently. Trade him and Gomes for a legit SF and we'll be set until Aminu takes over that role.

bballman
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i'd personally like to see them try to get Anthony Parker and Anderson Varejao for Kaman and other throw ins.not sure if it's possible or if either are on the trading block but i think those two would fit this Clippers team.

clipper*joe
CTB MVP Champion
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Posts: 15883
Location: los angeles
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votes: 125

Cliptonyte wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
Icecoldclipper wrote:

Problem here is those same remarks can be made about Kaman. He has a stronger mid-range game and FT shooting but in no way does he not sure up the mistakes Jordan makes offensively. Also can be said that what Kaman does offensively better than Jordan Jordan does defensively better than Kaman.

Personally want to keep Kaman only because he can provide the 3rd scoring option we need desperately but he has to get his act together. Even during his All Star year he still had Floppy modes and Baron gave one hell of a year to help suppot and feed Kaman.

Not totally buying based on stats this season. Kaman is averaging just as much blocks as Jordan...In Kaman's slow start. Kaman as of now, is out rebounding Jordan (7.10 to 6.3). Kaman doesn't get a 3 second violation in every game. Jordan gets at least one a game.

kaman can spread the floor with his outside shooting. Jordan can't do that to help BG. Kaman does run the floor well despite what a lot of people think here.

I do think baron helped Kaman with his numbers but I'd say half those shots were out about 15 feet.

Kaman also averages more minutes than DJ, so they are basically the same in those areas. I saw DJ touch at least one of Steve Nash's shots against the Suns the other night, and he never was credited with a block. I've seen that a few times this season. DJ is more intimidating defensively than Kaman, though Kaman is a pretty good shot blocker in his own right. Kaman is a better defensive rebounder, while DJ is a better offensive rebounder. Don't forget that Kaman is also about 7 years older than DJ.

DJ is more efficient than Kaman. He's also not going to turn over the ball as much as Kaman, because he won't touch it as much. Kaman is a better player, but the gap between them isn't as large as some of you make it out to be...

True, but we're talking about Jordan's best year compared to kaman's down year. That there tells the story.

OptimusDimes
Clipper Starter
Posts: 459
votes: 3

Clippers don't exactly have an established system, we're still figuring a lot of things out. The general trend I've seen is that DJ works better on offense with Bledsoe, while Kaman and BD have better chemistry on offense, so in terms of the system you speak of, I think it depends highly on who's running point.

I disagree, I think we have an established system of playing uptempo bball that revolves around p/r, backdoor cuts, and a few isos.

I never understood why we could never execute the pnr under dun with much sucess until cassell, but from what I,ve seen of Kaman, this is not his type of system.

Kaman sets some of the weakess picks i've yet to see, acting as if the defender has scabies or something. Backdoor cuts with Kaman...see the last statement. And do we want to even talk about isos?

Also this talk about not playing or winning against real comp...you might want to rethink that one.

SamMays
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4022
votes: 53

Really, this is a non issue... The team isn't going to make the playoffs this year... We have the entire season to figure out what we want to do in the off-season... Kaman got off to a slow start this year and Baron got off to a slower one... How do you think this team will be if Kaman comes back and plays reasonably well?

We could be in the top half of the league...

In any event, it makes no sense to do something knee jerk... Let's wait for him to come back and see how the team does over an extended period of time with Kaman as our third offensive option, not the first...

At the end of the season, when we ACTUALLY KNOW SOMETHING, a decision can be made. Kaman is still young enough to be part of our nucleus going forward for the next five years... Let's not do anything rash... Let's wait and see... We're working for next year now... Lets wait until the off-season before we "dump" anybody.

Unloading him now, while injured and his trade value is low would just be foolish... I, for one, am not sold on Jordan. Kaman, with his outside shooting, would be a much better fit with Griffin.

Hooch20
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 2397
Location: Santa Barbara
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votes: 15

http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page ... s-schedule

There's no need to move Kaman right now. Being under the cap and having some decent trade assets I think we could land someone like Prince without moving the big guy. We're about $6 million under the cap and only need to send out about $5 million to land Prince. This saves a struggling Detroit franchise that's up for sale some money.

OptimusDimes
Clipper Starter
Posts: 459
votes: 3

Until Kaman gets his decision making and bball IQ better, I just would like to see him in the second unit.

I wonder if Kaman would be OK with that after he is back up to speed fully healed.

checkdafool10
Posts: 2465
Location: Los Angeles
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votes: 11

if ppl think kaman will actually help us with our scoring they're stupid. alright we don't need his 45% jumpshot unless all he did was rebound, defend, and pick up the garbage points (like DJ) then i would be alright with it but he doesn't he take 15-20 shots and almost never makes half of them. i would still rather have the MOST athletic front court in the game then have kaman hold us back while he's the last person to run up the floor. as for DJ's freethrow shooting someone should tell him there's no shame in banking it

dunc182
Clipper Starter
Posts: 589
votes: 4

I'm hoping Chris comes back with a vengeance, as there was something severely wrong with him to start the season. His J was still going strong though which was nice to see. I just can't wait til he comes back, I think having Chris as a thrid scoring option behind Griffin and Gordon would be an incredible luxury as he is such a skilled player. I think he could boost this team from a team thats starting to win to a team thats destroying opponents. Two bigs on the floor at once with the skill to draw double teams and even in Blake's case recently triple teams? An awesome prospect.

The only potential problem I see is the dump off plays that dj has been finishing so well are perfect scenarios for Kaman to use his butterfingers and airball wide open layups. That's why I think it's so important for im to come back with fire in his belly, so he'll dunk those home!!

ClipThemOff
Clipper Starter
Posts: 933

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votes: 1

when it comes to anything about Kaman, i don't think a lot of people can take you serious.

i do think he can help a lot but DJ should start untill after the allstar break atleast.

not even Yao gets that kind of treatment with the Rockets fans

tense2
CTB MVP X2
Posts: 8825
votes: 20

LotsoHope wrote:
tense2 wrote:

...Kaman is not a top 5 center in any half...

Just out of curiousity from the Kaman haters, who would be your top 5 centers? No PFs like Amare, Pau, or Duncan that plug in the 5 spot, I mean true centers.

I imagine for sure Dwight and Yao, maybe Bynum and Shaq, though the last three mentioned have serious health issues right now and I don't even think Bynum is that great b/c he's so inconsistent even when healthy. Al Horford and Marc Gasol could make that list... but other than those names, this isn't a very long list.

...ok..did this on another thread but can't find it which includes $ for each player also, but won't do that here:

Horford:PER=23.1, LTPER=17.9. PPG=16.7, TRB=9.6

Noah:PER=19.4, LTPER=17.1, PPG=14.0, TRB=11.7

Hibbert:PER=17.3, LTPER=16.4,. PPG=14.0, TRB=8.3

Bynum:PER=20.2, LTPER=18.5, PPG=15.0, TRB=8.3...this is last yrs #'s

Gasol:PER=17.4, LTPER=17.9, PPG=11.8, TRB=7.4

Bogut:PER=18.6, LTPER=17.2, PPG=14.2, TRB=11.4

B.Lopez=PER=17.9, LTPER=18.9, PPG=19.3, TRB=6.3

Howard=PER=24.7, LTPER=21.9., PPG=21.3, TRB=13.1

Kaman=PER=11.2, LTPER=14.3, PPG=11.2, TRB=7.1....Best PER=17.5 07/08.

...and I would put in Duncan and Pau because they've played a whole lot of minutes and games at the center position and their PER's are all +20...they can play that position for my team any day of the week...

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