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clipper*joe
Post ID: 138727by clipper*joe » Jan 21, 2011 - 12:34 AM PST
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ekker3 wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
Not dissing DJ but one of the reason why we struggle with teams like this, is because DJ isn't an offensive threat.

interesting that DJ was the only one with a positive in the +/-

Not really. He had a great QTR. Didn't see too much time or do much after that. Plus, he really doesn't play in the 4th qtr. That been the recent trend.



                
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SilentAssasinClips
Post ID: 138728by SilentAssasinClips » Jan 21, 2011 - 12:35 AM PST
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darn, it's one step forward, two step back... oh well start a new winning streak!!

                
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afishLClipp
Post ID: 138729by afishLClipp » Jan 21, 2011 - 12:36 AM PST
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This loss is really disheartening b/c it now seems apparent that the refs will do everything in their power to have the Blazers make the playoffs over the Clippers Sad

                
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clipper*joe
Post ID: 138731by clipper*joe » Jan 21, 2011 - 12:36 AM PST
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afishLClipp wrote:
SamMays wrote:
This was a good indication that we just don't have enough depth to really be a playoff team... Look at the contribution Portland was getting across the board... Griffin and Gordon are the only guys that we have that would make their top eight... Perhaps Kaman if healthy...

It's going to be an interesting summer... Olshey really needs to add a stronger supporting cast to Griffin and Gordon... Foye, Gomes, Smith, Butler are pretty worthless... Cook has surprised a bit, but he's still a lot closer to 10th man material that 6th man material.

Hopefully Aminu and Bledsoe have great off seasons... That could solve a good bit of the problem...

think you're forgetting about baron, look at the stats in this game, compared to A. Miller, almost identical minus rbs (which has a lot to do with lucky bounces)

Was going to say the same thing but decided not to.

                
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clipper*joe
Post ID: 138733by clipper*joe » Jan 21, 2011 - 12:38 AM PST
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EG#23 wrote:
ClipfanSince88 wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
Kaman's offense would have helped us along with freeing up Griffin.

You're absolutely right, Joe. If Kaman was in there, they could not have double and tripled Griffin nearly as effectively. Even if his shot wasn't falling, just having him hang around the free throw line would have kept the Portland defense honest.

But that was out of vinny's control since Kaman is injured but what about the fact that he had two very good three point shooters in Butler and Aminu on the bench when they could have stretched that floor out even farther than Kaman could have...

Butler isn't a good 3pt shooter. he's a volume shooter. Aminu hasn't been hitting his threes, either. Foye is the one who's been hot.

                
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clipper*joe
Post ID: 138734by clipper*joe » Jan 21, 2011 - 12:45 AM PST
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Wasn't Przybilla guarding him through the first half? At least? That's what I remember.

                
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Icecoldclipper
Post ID: 138735by Icecoldclipper » Jan 21, 2011 - 12:45 AM PST
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clipper*joe wrote:
Icecoldclipper wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
Kaman's offense would have helped us along with freeing up Griffin.

Griffin got beat up most of the night in straight up man to man coverage. Aldrige contained Griffin only when Aldrige was out they considered the double. The bench big for them though was even able to handle him early one on one.

The paint was clogged all night. That's one of the reasons why BG wasn't able to get his shot. One of the reasons why he really wasn't agressive.

With kaman, they'd have a harder time helping off the weakside. He might have initially been man on man, but as soon as he passed by, you'd see 2 guys in the paint.

Okay see that point but isn't that just results of a team playing zone defense. Kaman will have looks but teams that play the zone right like the Blazers aren't going to leave much time after the pass off for him to recover look and shoot. We need some help for sure Kaman needs some games under his belt before we hit the road.

                
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clipper*joe
Post ID: 138737by clipper*joe » Jan 21, 2011 - 12:48 AM PST
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Huh? Blazers only played zone on a few sequences. No team plays Zone as a primary defense. Even the Mavs don't do it all game.

                
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clippersfan85
Post ID: 138739by clippersfan85 » Jan 21, 2011 - 12:52 AM PST
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I strongly agree that this game is a prime example of why Kaman is still needed on this team. Any word on when Kaman will return? He will definitely be needed on the road.

LaMarcus Aldridge is probably the one single player this season that has contained Blake Griffin, if he plays like that on a nightly basis he should get an All-star spot.

                
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Icecoldclipper
Post ID: 138741by Icecoldclipper » Jan 21, 2011 - 12:55 AM PST
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clipper*joe wrote:
Icecoldclipper wrote:
I'm pretty much sure most of the game LMA guarded Griffin one on one he didn't even allow Griffin to get inside the paint that often. Can't see how you can fix spacing when you get beat up one on one when they trapped Griffin is when he was way out posting and tried to spin baseline and attack the basket they just cut him off.
Wasn't Przybilla guarding him through the first half? At least? That's what I remember.

in small spots mostly Aldrige and the ball headed black dude that looks like Sticky Fingers aka Travis Outlaw. LMA had most of the load.

                
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david
Post ID: 138742by david » Jan 21, 2011 - 12:55 AM PST
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The defensive execution just wasn't there. You would think that the guys would know what to expect from the Blazers- they're a jump shooting team. But the rotations were late or not there too many times. Also it didn't help that DeAndre was in foul trouble- he helped stopp the dribble penetration and helped keep the Blazers off of the offensive boards. Knowing how important he is to the team, DeAndre simply must avoid some of these unnecessary fouls. Looking at the boxscore- the Clippers were +4 when DeAndre was in the game. And as you guys pointed out definitely Kaman would have helped deal with the Blazers length. Diogu is strong but he doesn't have the length to guard Aldridge.

Another huge difference in the game was the production from the swingman position. We just got badly outclassed there. Gomes with one of his 2 point games- undoubtably we lose most of the time when we can't get any offense from him.

Blake actually got outplayed by Aldrige. Despite having 20 and 18 Blake had 5 turnovers and like every Clipper (other than Jordan) could not slow down Aldrige. Eric Gordon was pretty much the main reason we were in the game in the second half. Good sign seeing EJ pour in 35 despite the bad finger. Defensively, however, he got hammered by Wesley Matthews. Some of it could be attributed to the lack of shot blocking inside when DeAndre was out. Baron had a solid game but he's getting a little too 3-happy. Bledsoe was really awful on defense, letting Patrick Mills burn him time and time again.

Time to regroup- a HUGE must-win game on Sunday. Go Clips!

                
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clipper*joe
Post ID: 138743by clipper*joe » Jan 21, 2011 - 12:59 AM PST
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Icecoldclipper wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
Icecoldclipper wrote:
I'm pretty much sure most of the game LMA guarded Griffin one on one he didn't even allow Griffin to get inside the paint that often. Can't see how you can fix spacing when you get beat up one on one when they trapped Griffin is when he was way out posting and tried to spin baseline and attack the basket they just cut him off.
Wasn't Przybilla guarding him through the first half? At least? That's what I remember.

in small spots mostly Aldrige and the ball headed black dude that looks like Sticky Fingers aka Travis Outlaw. LMA had most of the load.

Nope. That was only when Przybilla went out. Aldridge was guarding DJ for the same reason Griffin wasn't. To not get in foul trouble. Aldridge didn't start to guard him till late in the 2nd and and 4th. Since DJ was in foul trouble, and the Blazers were in the lead, that's when Aldridge started to guard him.

                
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elton_sucks42
Post ID: 138744by elton_sucks42 » Jan 21, 2011 - 01:00 AM PST
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how many points did gomes score? its like playing four vs five out there

                
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clipper*joe
Post ID: 138746by clipper*joe » Jan 21, 2011 - 01:05 AM PST
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Just a tidbit, Gomes only shot 5 times. A few of them came by way of a very short shot clock from the 3 pt line. he had 2 offensive boards and that's where he scored his only points.

I don't blame Gomes. You can't get into rhythm when the ball doesn't rotate to you.

                
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Icecoldclipper
Post ID: 138747by Icecoldclipper » Jan 21, 2011 - 01:06 AM PST
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clipper*joe wrote:
Icecoldclipper wrote:
Okay see that point but isn't that just results of a team playing zone defense. Kaman will have looks but teams that play the zone right like the Blazers aren't going to leave much time after the pass off for him to recover look and shoot. We need some help for sure Kaman needs some games under his belt before we hit the road.

Huh? Blazers only played zone on a few sequences. No team plays Zone as a primary defense. Even the Mavs don't do it all game.

Of course but they played it at the right time the right way. When they made the switch to zone they always had a arm with in reach of the 3pt line.

                
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clipper*joe
Post ID: 138749by clipper*joe » Jan 21, 2011 - 01:13 AM PST
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Icecoldclipper wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
Icecoldclipper wrote:
Okay see that point but isn't that just results of a team playing zone defense. Kaman will have looks but teams that play the zone right like the Blazers aren't going to leave much time after the pass off for him to recover look and shoot. We need some help for sure Kaman needs some games under his belt before we hit the road.

Huh? Blazers only played zone on a few sequences. No team plays Zone as a primary defense. Even the Mavs don't do it all game.

Of course but they played it at the right time the right way. When they made the switch to zone they always had a arm with in reach of the 3pt line.

The zone is the easiest defense to break. Give Baron the ball and watch it happen. Dribble penetration with a passer like BD is the easiest way to break a defense. That's how BG got his easy dunk late in the game.

The reason why we lost our lead early in the game was because our guards can't dribble penetrate and dish. Plus, Gordon was hot so we started running the ball through Blake to attract the defense and let EJ score. No pick and rolls, no nothing. That's why Blake was easy to contain.

                
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ohMEohMy!
Post ID: 138750by ohMEohMy! » Jan 21, 2011 - 01:17 AM PST
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Didn't watch the first half, but I noticed a few times where people (not just Gomes) just stood around instead of cutting to the basket. It's not all about waiting for the ball to come to you. Gotta make opportunities happen.

                
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toohipcliptoslip
Post ID: 138751by toohipcliptoslip » Jan 21, 2011 - 01:23 AM PST
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Amen. I've said this a million times but only losers complain about the refs. Vinnie didn't get outcoached. Their game was "Anybody but Blake" Baron gave us unexpected points BUT if a team shuts down BG who except EJ is gonna score? (COOKIE). They packed the paint so he gouldn't get position. He got stripped a lot. Remember no matter how good (well for you English buffs) he plays he's still a rookie and there are holes in his game. For example he needs to work on his post moves and Portland obviously knew it and exploited it. Would Kaman have helped? Maybe depending on how BG can pass from a double/triple team. Kaman could kill them inside. If DJ had one post move it would be suicide to triple BG. Why doesn't he have one? I've seem him do it.

We also have nothing from SF. Gomes is too streaky and arguably he cost us the game. We really need bench scoring. Butler is the invisible man. DJ was fine and as far as scoring, Clockwork Wallace for Detroit couldn't hit his foot. His defensive presence had to be respected just like DJ.

What if we had had Mike Miller? We're not going to get Peja. We won't get Melo ( I don't think but stranger things have happened). I don't think we'll get another star.

As far as Kaman starting, it could depend on matchups. Unless Owsley pulls a bunny out of his butt I don't see us getting a star unless we gut the team.

Too Hip 3:16 The bottom line son is we need a reliable SF who can hit threes.

                
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clipper*joe
Post ID: 138752by clipper*joe » Jan 21, 2011 - 01:26 AM PST
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ohMEohMy! wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
Just a tidbit, Gomes only shot 5 times. A few of them came by way of a very short shot clock from the 3 pt line. he had 2 offensive boards and that's where he scored his only points.

I don't blame Gomes. You can't get into rhythm when the ball doesn't rotate to you.

Didn't watch the first half, but I noticed a few times where people (not just Gomes) just stood around instead of cutting to the basket. It's not all about waiting for the ball to come to you. Gotta make opportunities happen.

But that's how VDN runs his offense. I'm almost certain that that is by design. Gordon is the only one making cuts and gets the ball on the other end. If I didn't know any better, VDN only runs 3 plays. Dump to BG. Gordon curls. BD improvises.

                
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bullterrierclipsfan1349
Post ID: 138753by bullterrierclipsfan1349 » Jan 21, 2011 - 01:27 AM PST
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the clipper's success is based on the playmaking ability of baron davis. if he tries to just get his, then the offense stagnates. however, one cant blame him when he gets the ball to the open man (gomes) and that man misses wide open jumpers. blake also has to start to understand that he is gonna have nights were he just cant overpower and outquick a team's defense. he is going to have to start trusting his jumper. the only jumper he shot today was a 20 footer that he made without any effort.

                
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murry43
Post ID: 138774by murry43 » Jan 21, 2011 - 10:52 AM PST
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Portland is physical. Turnovers, poor shooting percentage. it looked like the ball was invisible on defense for the clips! Blake needs a mid range game and he needs to work on that early and often and late!!!

                
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tense2
Post ID: 138777by tense2 » Jan 21, 2011 - 11:11 AM PST
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...we got outplayed @ the SF, PF (BG can't be superman all the time) and the bench positions last night.....it'll will happen once in a while @ PF, but the bench and SF is a constant.

                
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TheDude
Post ID: 138779by TheDude » Jan 21, 2011 - 11:26 AM PST
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If Olshey is going to make a trade, he should try to do it by next week. If it's the trade deadline, Gomes will already cost us a few more games by then.

We've played the least amount of road games in the league. Now we make up for that with an entire month of away games. Incomplete teams cannot win on the road consistently even if you have two all-stars.

Last night was a great opportunity wasted because they were short handed. On paper, we should have beaten that team. Gomes on the floor allows the opposition to double and triple team Blake and Eric without consequence. The guy is simply killing us. He does not belong in an NBA rotation.

                
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cleepers
Post ID: 138783by cleepers » Jan 21, 2011 - 11:39 AM PST
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TheDude wrote:
tense2 wrote:
...we got outplayed @ the SF, PF (BG can't be superman all the time) and the bench positions last night.....it'll will happen once in a while @ PF, but the bench and SF is a constant.

If Olshey is going to make a trade, he should try to do it by next week. If it's the trade deadline, Gomes will already cost us a few more games by then.

We've played the least amount of road games in the league. Now we make up for that with an entire month of away games. Incomplete teams cannot win on the road consistently even if you have two all-stars.

Last night was a great opportunity wasted because they were short handed. On paper, we should have beaten that team. Gomes on the floor allows the opposition to double and triple team Blake and Eric without consequence. The guy is simply killing us. He does not belong in an NBA rotation.

I wholeheartedly agree.

                
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murry43
Post ID: 138789by murry43 » Jan 21, 2011 - 12:03 PM PST
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Wow Gomes is the goat and doesn't belong in the NBA rotation. BS! Gomes didn't cost the clips this game. They lost as a team.

                
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clipper*joe
Post ID: 138792by clipper*joe » Jan 21, 2011 - 12:08 PM PST
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By the same token, our SG and PF positions usually outplay the opponent's Teams.

That's why every team has weaknesses and strengths.

Lakers almost always get outplayed at the PG and center position. Magic has/had the same problem at the SF position.

Had we had an offense threat at the center position, we would have had a better shot at winning. That was their soft spot yet, we had no one to expose them. That's why a guy like Kaman would have been great.

All teams have a weak spot....ALL TEAMS.

Our team doesn't need anyone right now. The reason why it looks gloomy is because this is our first year together. We don't need a quick fix, we need time for than an elite player. Experience is what we need. No instant gratification when it comes to that.

                
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tense2
Post ID: 138793by tense2 » Jan 21, 2011 - 12:17 PM PST
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clipper*joe wrote:
tense2 wrote:
...we got outplayed @ the SF, PF (BG can't be superman all the time) and the bench positions last night.....it'll will happen once in a while @ PF, but the bench and SF is a constant.

By the same token, our SG and PF positions usually outplay the opponent's Teams.

That's why every team has weaknesses and strengths.

Lakers almost always get outplayed at the PG and center position. Magic has/had the same problem at the SF position.

Had we had an offense threat at the center position, we would have had a better shot at winning. That was their soft spot yet, we had no one to expose them. That's why a guy like Kaman would have been great.

All teams have a weak spot....ALL TEAMS.

Our team doesn't need anyone right now. The reason why it looks gloomy is because this is our first year together. We don't need a quick fix, we need time for than an elite player. Experience is what we need. No instant gratification when it comes to that.

I agree ALL teams have weak spot(s).....just some are bigger then others...and ours are SF position (ranked 28) and bench (ranked 29)....by the way the Lakers are ranked 2nd at the center position....their weak spots are PG and SF.

                
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TheDude
Post ID: 138817by TheDude » Jan 21, 2011 - 01:36 PM PST
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tense2 wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
tense2 wrote:
...we got outplayed @ the SF, PF (BG can't be superman all the time) and the bench positions last night.....it'll will happen once in a while @ PF, but the bench and SF is a constant.

By the same token, our SG and PF positions usually outplay the opponent's Teams.

That's why every team has weaknesses and strengths.

Lakers almost always get outplayed at the PG and center position. Magic has/had the same problem at the SF position.

Had we had an offense threat at the center position, we would have had a better shot at winning. That was their soft spot yet, we had no one to expose them. That's why a guy like Kaman would have been great.

All teams have a weak spot....ALL TEAMS.

Our team doesn't need anyone right now. The reason why it looks gloomy is because this is our first year together. We don't need a quick fix, we need time for than an elite player. Experience is what we need. No instant gratification when it comes to that.

I agree ALL teams have weak spot(s).....just some are bigger then others...and ours are SF position (ranked 28) and bench (ranked 29)....by the way the Lakers are ranked 2nd at the center position....their weak spots are PG and SF.

Lakers SFs: 1st string Artest, 2nd string Lamar(part time at the 3), 3rd string Matt Barnes.

It's a position of weakness for the Lakers and yet their 3rd string guy would be a no brainer full time starter on our team.

At SF we don't have a weakness, we have a complete void of NBA level talent. Totally unfair to Eric and Blake to continue to march Gomes out there every night.

                
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clipper*joe
Post ID: 138821by clipper*joe » Jan 21, 2011 - 01:41 PM PST
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Artest plays SF. Barnes plays SF. Odom plays mostly PF. When Bybum goes out, Gasol plays center. Odom moves to the PF spot. When the lakers started out the season, Odom was playing PF while Gasol played center.

Artest against us, played SG against EJ most of the game.

                
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tense2
Post ID: 138840by tense2 » Jan 21, 2011 - 02:37 PM PST
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...agree..it is a very big weakness unfortunately

                
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Baie
Post ID: 139236by Baie » Jan 24, 2011 - 01:43 AM PST
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I 100% agree with you!!!

                
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