Pincus: Mayo Linked to Clippers?

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emplay
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Hey all,

Here’s my latest:

Pincus: Mayo Linked to Clippers?

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=18604

I expand on a rumor put forth by Chris Vernon out of Memphis www.twitter.com/ChrisVernonShow

Remember Vernon was the first guy to break the Gasol to Lakers trade years ago.

With Mayo getting suspended for DHEA, perhaps the Clippers should think about adding a talent when his price is at an all-time low?!?

Thanks

Eric

Grillinnap
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If only Mayo was a SF...

ClipfanSince88
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^^^ Yeah, I'm with you. If we're going to dump Kaman, I'd prefer it be for an upgrade a SF. But now that EP has chimed in on it, I'm definitely going to keep an eye on this Mayo situation.

TheDude
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We can bring OJ and Melo in one trade.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=4pjf539

Memphis gets a protected 1st round pick. Denver gets Minny's pick. We get a dynasty.

ClipThemOff
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i would be more for trading Baron for Mayo and Conley + cash

i think the long term solution to point guard is Eric Gordon

imagine him growing to one of the top stars like CP3 and DWill

clipperstown
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i think with mayo's bad play and this steroid suspension, he can be had for a future first (not the minny pick), and nothing more.

emplay
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If you try to make the changes in one move - you don't get anywhere - there is no elite small forward available to the clippers - mayo, if they went there - makes Baron expendable. That's part of the problem - no ready to go PG. Even if Mayo/Gordon are both combo guards - they'd be able to hold down the position and LA would STILL have assets to make a deal for a talented 3.

ClippersSince97
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i just want to see what it's like with kaman and griffin on the floor together first. of course, kaman needs to be playing like he did last year and not like he did at the start of this season.

ClipThemOff
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i don't even think this team needs to get rid of much..

they want to get rid of his contract

Clips throw in either of combination of Warren/Foye & Butler and a 2nd round pick..

the Memphis media obviously wants to get Kaman, Bledsoe, and Aminu but that is just wrong

clipper*joe
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Gordon is not a PG. We've already seen what happens when we use an inexperienced guard that came into the league playing a combo guard and letting Gordon run the show. We average a high TO rate with both guards. Gordon is in his third year and can't really create off the dribble.

If we trade baron, we need a true point guard. Gordon doesn't have the skills to find the open man. You're basically using 2 guards to try and make one PG. It didn't work at the start of the season, at it won't using it in the future. Gordon doesn't pass in transition, and if he does, he does it to get the ball back. That would be a terrible idea.

TheDude
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Totally agree Joe. We cannot set ourselves up to rely on EG to play PG. Spot duty is ok. Building the roster to rely on his ball handling and distributing abilities is not a smart move. It's just not his game.

First 10-15 games when Baron was out and Bledsoe was surprising us, I was all in to flip Baron for a SF. Today, I'd trade Baron only for an elite, young PG and I don't see Utah, NO, or Chicago looking to trade their stars any time soon...

Baron still frustrates at times but he's one of the best passers in the game and the young guys (other than EG maybe) simply love playing ball with him. If Blake's happy I'm happy. I don't think he would dig a trade sending Baron out right now.

elton_sucks42
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emplay wrote:
Hey all,

Here’s my latest:

Pincus: Mayo Linked to Clippers?

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=18604

I expand on a rumor put forth by Chris Vernon out of Memphis www.twitter.com/ChrisVernonShow

Remember Vernon was the first guy to break the Gasol to Lakers trade years ago.

With Mayo getting suspended for DHEA, perhaps the Clippers should think about adding a talent when his price is at an all-time low?!?

Thanks

Eric

Agh, Clippers shouldve gone for beasley for a a couple second rounders.

ClipThemOff
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i will have to disagree.

i believe Eric Gordon is the future 1. he is only at his 3rd year.. a lot of pg's take a long time to progress...

i mean everyone wants Aminu to play the 3 but he was a 4 in college... things take time..

the idea of getting Mayo and a couple of their no good scrubs for 3 of our players (2 promising rookies, and an allstar 7 footer) is non sense

!! ideally the first goal for any trade involving the clips is seeing if they can get rid of that massive 13m contract first

LoneyROY7
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He can't create off the dribble?

I'm assuming he just teleports to the basket when he scores countlessly in the paint then.....

A majority of Gordon's assists come from creating off the dribble, getting to the basket and dishing off to either an outside shooter or a big inside.

I hate to be crass, but that is just an asinine statement.

And as far as "Gordon doesn't have the skills to find the open man".....if I remember correctly, you were quoted as recently as EJ's last game against the Warriors as saying, "Man, Gordon has quickly become a great passer! Props!" Flip-flopping a bit?

ClipShow1
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ClipThemOff wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
Gordon is not a PG. We've already seen what happens when we use an inexperienced guard that came into the league playing a combo guard and letting Gordon run the show. We average a high TO rate with both guards. Gordon is in his third year and can't really create off the dribble.

If we trade baron, we need a true point guard. Gordon doesn't have the skills to find the open man. You're basically using 2 guards to try and make one PG. It didn't work at the start of the season, at it won't using it in the future. Gordon doesn't pass in transition, and if he does, he does it to get the ball back. That would be a terrible idea.

i will have to disagree.

i believe Eric Gordon is the future 1. he is only at his 3rd year.. a lot of pg's take a long time to progress...

i mean everyone wants Aminu to play the 3 but he was a 4 in college... things take time..

the idea of getting Mayo and a couple of their no good scrubs for 3 of our players (2 promising rookies, and an allstar 7 footer) is non sense

I'm a huge EJ fan but he's definitely not the PG of the future, SG is his natural position. EJ would probably lead the league in turnovers if he was playing PG full time. Just IMO.

clipperboy24
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elton_sucks42 wrote:
emplay wrote:
Hey all,

Here’s my latest:

Pincus: Mayo Linked to Clippers?

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=18604

I expand on a rumor put forth by Chris Vernon out of Memphis www.twitter.com/ChrisVernonShow

Remember Vernon was the first guy to break the Gasol to Lakers trade years ago.

With Mayo getting suspended for DHEA, perhaps the Clippers should think about adding a talent when his price is at an all-time low?!?

Thanks

Eric

Agh, Clippers shouldve gone for beasley for a a couple second rounders.

ah its seriously pathetic they screwed that up so bad. Its not like we had just won a title and wanted to keep the chemistry. We had absolutely no chemistry.

SamMays
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^^^As rarely as I do this, I would agree with Joe... Wanting Gordon to become a PG is understandable... He's small for a SG and always will be... But he just doesn't have the mentality of a PG... He doesn't handle well enough and shows no signs of becoming a great ball handler at any point in the near future. More important than that, however, is that he doesn't understand how to use his talents to create for others... Sure, he has some drives where he sees the help defender coming at him and he makes a nice dump down to the post, or kick out to a shooter, but that's not the same thing.

A PG needs not just to see it, but consciously know how to create it, i.e. "If I beat my man right, help will come from there and I will get a shsot for player A, who has been hot as hell." And then he figures out how to beat his many right. Gordon just doesn't see the game in that way... He sees it like the player he is, a SG.

BEN GORDON is much the same. Everyone said because of his size he would have to become a PG in the NBA. Well it never happened and not because BG doesn't see the floor well or doesn't handle well (he might be the best ball handler in the game). It never happened because Gordon just doesn't think like a PG... He's a streak scorer and he's content with that role... He spins, goes through the legs, steps back... He's got every move you could imagine... For himself...

As for Mayo, I like him a lot, but unless VDN plans to play a small lineup a lot, he is redundant... He's too much like Eric Gordon and in a couple years, both of them are going to need to get paid... And you don't want 20-million or more (perhaps half the salary cap) being spent on two players who play the same position.

No one wants to see Baron gone more than me... Mayo just isn't the guy... That said, if we can get him cheap and experiment with him for a couple years or package him, then that's another story... He might be worth bringing in... But not at great expense.

LoneyROY7
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I was more responding to the blanket statement of "Gordon can't really create off the dribble." Had he specified it as you just have, it's much more understandable.

I personally would prefer EJ to stay at the SG position, because as he has shown this season, he has potential to be one of the best 2-guards in the league for years to come.

Derty_Bert
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EJ is not a PG, we've all seen that in the past three years. It's pretty clear he doesn't have the court vision or dribblin ability, we've been thru this. As a project, Mayo would be a better PG but I'd rather had Curry or Ellis.

Paolo310
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i highly doubt a deal would even be put into place anytime soon.

ClipThemOff
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actually come to think of it....

i really hope no deal happens unless its a Memphis salary dump for Butler and Warren etc.

clipper*joe
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He is only in his third year BUT he has only been playing spot duty at the PG for a few months. I've never seen a life long SG come into the league and become a PG in his 3rd, 4th, or 5th year. In fact, I've never seen it done. That is the hardest position to transition to.

clipper*joe
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LoneyROY7 wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
Gordon is not a PG. We've already seen what happens when we use an inexperienced guard that came into the league playing a combo guard and letting Gordon run the show. We average a high TO rate with both guards. Gordon is in his third year and can't really create off the dribble.

If we trade baron, we need a true point guard. Gordon doesn't have the skills to find the open man. You're basically using 2 guards to try and make one PG. It didn't work at the start of the season, at it won't using it in the future. Gordon doesn't pass in transition, and if he does, he does it to get the ball back. That would be a terrible idea.

He can't create off the dribble?

I'm assuming he just teleports to the basket when he scores countlessly in the paint then.....

A majority of Gordon's assists come from creating off the dribble, getting to the basket and dishing off to either an outside shooter or a big inside.

I hate to be crass, but that is just an asinine statement.

And as far as "Gordon doesn't have the skills to find the open man".....if I remember correctly, you were quoted as recently as EJ's last game against the Warriors as saying, "Man, Gordon has quickly become a great passer! Props!" Flip-flopping a bit?

I'm sorry, you're wrong. Most of his points in the paint come from beating his man in a straight line. He muscles his way in or beats his man. And his assists in the paint come out of getting stuck. I have never seen Gordon go in the paint trying to create a pass. I've seen him get stuck and dump the ball. His game is scoring, he's never had the mentality to pass the ball.

My comment about becoming a good passer is just that. He is becoming, not is. Not trying to be rude, but you need to read things at face value, and stop making mindless comments.

In context, my comment was in reference to me saying the guy can't pass. Anyone here long enough knows that I've thought Gordon's liabilities have always been the lack of passing skills and dribble penetration. Too bad you haven't been here ,otherwise, you'd know what I meant by that. Hell, just read the words. becoming doesn't imply he is. And if he is becoming a good passer, it doesn't necessarily mean I meant that he is PG good. Blake a great passer, does that imply he could be a PG? Think about that...

ClipThemOff
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well regardless if he can play the 1 or not...

if Baron can't be dumped for his contract then no one on this team should be traded.. the team needs to stick together still unless its a clear upgrade of a star SF

Clipswhit
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Russell westbrook came in the league as a combo guard and okc made him a pg, that's seemed to work out well for them.

ClipfanSince88
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clipper*joe wrote:
ClipThemOff wrote:

i will have to disagree.

i believe Eric Gordon is the future 1. he is only at his 3rd year.. a lot of pg's take a long time to progress...

i mean everyone wants Aminu to play the 3 but he was a 4 in college... things take time..

the idea of getting Mayo and a couple of their no good scrubs for 3 of our players (2 promising rookies, and an allstar 7 footer) is non sense

!! ideally the first goal for any trade involving the clips is seeing if they can get rid of that massive 13m contract first

He is only in his third year BUT he has only been playing spot duty at the PG for a few months. I've never seen a life long SG come into the league and become a PG in his 3rd, 4th, or 5th year. In fact, I've never seen it done. That is the hardest position to transition to.

I agree with this. I can't think of a single example of an SG who successfully converted to PG while in the NBA. I can think of some people who tried to do that and failed though. If you don't have the PG mindset and instincts by the time you get the NBA, then is probably too late.

Clippersfan86
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Joe I'm with you. I'm not sure if anyone remembers but I've constantly criticized EJ's ball handling and playmaking ability. Even guys like Monta Ellis who are pure scorers seem to create better than the more well rounded EJ. I love his overall game but don't trust his ballhandling whatsoever. I saw this chart that showed Anti-Clutch stats and EJ was the worst in the league. Purely because he's the league leader in costly turnovers. He turns the ball over at an insane rate in key situations. I don't understand why after 3 years in the league after claiming he wants to transition to PG he hasn't gotten noticeably better with his handles. He improved his defense and offense.. but not ballhandling? Ballhandling is one of the easiest things to improve (saying this from personal experience).

It's sad to me that Blake Griffin is a better, more in control ball handler than Eric as a rookie PF. In fact I'd rather Butterfingers Aminu handle the ball than EJ a lot of times.

clipper*joe
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Like 88 said, you either have the mindset, or you don't. Plus, he transitioned well in his first year . Plus, RW had great handles coming in. Gordon, not so much.

Clipswhit
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^I'm pretty sure butterfingers still leads the league in to's

mj_shoefanatic
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Mayo/Gordon backcourt>>>>Baron/Gordon

We need to do whatever possible to make this happen especially if it includes unloading Kaveboy. Plus, we'll need some extra doe to match any offer that teams throw at DJ this summer.

btw Mayo's got handles Razz

Clipswhit
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We are allowed to have baron AND Mayo on the team at the same time...

big_giddy
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Fantasy Basketball.

LoneyROY7
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I never disputed that Gordon isn't neccessarily looking to pass as he intially goes to the basket. EJ's role in this offense to attack and score the basketball, but you don't think that he could adjust his game if he were to switch positions?

Like I said earlier, I would prefer Gordon to stay at the SG position because of the success he's had, but to infer that could not improve his ballhandling, court vision, etc. enough (he's 22, mind you) to make the move to PG years from now (as Gordon said, he would potentially like to shift over to the PG position later in his career) is absurd IMO.

clipper*joe
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LoneyROY7 wrote:

I never disputed that Gordon isn't neccessarily looking to pass as he intially goes to the basket. EJ's role in this offense to attack and score the basketball, but you don't think that he could adjust his game if he were to switch positions?

Of course you didn't dispute it, I explained why I said what I said. I had to explain why my comments weren't asinine. Gordon has had plenty of time to show his passing skills when Baron was out but even we he had the point, he was always looking for his shot. And when he did pass, he had the most TO's on this team.

Quote:
Like I said earlier, I would prefer Gordon to stay at the SG position because of the success he's had, but to infer that could not improve his ballhandling, court vision, etc. enough (he's 22, mind you) to make the move to PG years from now (as Gordon said, he would potentially like to shift over to the PG position later in his career) is absurd IMO.

Well, you show me a player like Gordon who's played all of his career at the SG spot that turned out to be a successful PG in his 4th/5th year with subpar handling skills.

That young age people always bring up is a red herring. Most players come in at that age now so please spare me the absurdity of those statements. A PG has those natural instincts that not many players have. If you don't have them coming in, you ain't going to have them.

I'm not going to argue with you. You show me an SG who has never played the PG position in his life and went on to be a successful PG in his 4th year...And the rest of his career.

Just name one player, otherwise, you're wasting my time.

LoneyROY7
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Gail Goodrich.

Like I said previously, I WANT Gordon to stay at SG....his skills are best utilized at the SG position, so there's really no argument.

ClipfanSince88
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How is Mayo as a defender? I know he was projected as having the capability of being a good defender coming out of college, but I haven't followed his career closely enough to know if that's how things turned out. If he is good on D, then maybe a three guard line-up with Gordon, Mayo and Baron could work, since Gordon is a very good defender and Baron is solid (when he wants to be).

clipper*joe
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LoneyROY7 wrote:
Quote:
Well, you show me a player like Gordon who's played all of his career at the SG spot that turned out to be a successful PG in his 4th/5th year with subpar handling skills.

That young age people always bring up is a red herring. Most players come in at that age now so please spare me the absurdity of those statements. A PG has those natural instincts that not many players have. If you don't have them coming in, you ain't going to have them.

I'm not going to argue with you. You show me an SG who has never played the PG position in his life and went on to be a successful PG in his 4th year...And the rest of his career.

Just name one player, otherwise, you're wasting my time.

Gail Goodrich.

Like I said previously, I WANT Gordon to stay at SG....his skills are best utilized at the SG position, so there's really no argument.

Wasn't he a shooting guard on the lakers? Wasn't West the point?

Anyway, that is too far back for me so I guess you made my point. It doesn't happen.

LoneyROY7
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clipper*joe wrote:
LoneyROY7 wrote:
Quote:
Well, you show me a player like Gordon who's played all of his career at the SG spot that turned out to be a successful PG in his 4th/5th year with subpar handling skills.

That young age people always bring up is a red herring. Most players come in at that age now so please spare me the absurdity of those statements. A PG has those natural instincts that not many players have. If you don't have them coming in, you ain't going to have them.

I'm not going to argue with you. You show me an SG who has never played the PG position in his life and went on to be a successful PG in his 4th year...And the rest of his career.

Just name one player, otherwise, you're wasting my time.

Gail Goodrich.

Like I said previously, I WANT Gordon to stay at SG....his skills are best utilized at the SG position, so there's really no argument.

Wasn't he a shooting guard on the lakers? Wasn't West the point?

Anyway, that is too far back for me so I guess you made my point. It doesn't happen.

Yeah, Goodrich was the shooting guard with Jerry West, but when paired with Lucius Allen in '75, he switched permanently from shooting guard to point guard.

You make some very good points, I just don't belive it should be completely ruled out.

Anways, EJ is best suited for the shooting guard position and him and Baron have really found their groove playing with one another, so it's really a moot point at this moment.

OptimusDimes
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Quote:
Of course you didn't dispute it, I explained why I said what I said. I had to explain why my comments weren't asinine. Gordon has had plenty of time to show his passing skills when Baron was out but even we he had the point, he was always looking for his shot. And when he did pass, he had the most TO's on this team.

Most of Gordon's To's were the result of Gordon trying to penetrate and misshadling the ball(which could make your point) but not off his passing so to assume that he TO while passing is incorrect.

Quote:
Well, you show me a player like Gordon who's played all of his career at the SG spot that turned out to be a successful PG in his 4th/5th year with subpar handling skills.

That young age people always bring up is a red herring. Most players come in at that age now so please spare me the absurdity of those statements. A PG has those natural instincts that not many players have. If you don't have them coming in, you ain't going to have them.

Your statement that players or people can't change is pretty foolish. Jordan came into the game with no 3pt shot and an iffy jumper. He changed his game just like many other players in the league, I'm pretty sure you were just trying to prove your point, but Gordon especially with the assistant coaches we have now could easily morph into the pg we need.

I'm not going to argue with you. You show me an SG who has never played the PG position in his life and went on to be a successful PG in his 4th year...And the rest of his career.

clipper*joe
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OptimusDimes wrote:

Most of Gordon's To's were the result of Gordon trying to penetrate and misshadling the ball(which could make your point) but not off his passing so to assume that he TO while passing is incorrect.

Well correct, me...What was the ratio since you seem to know. I know a lot of his TO's were a result of dribbing. Like I said in one of my first posts, he only passes the ball in the paint when he gets stuck. I'm not talking specifically about passes out of the paint, here. Wasn't I talking about dribble penetration? I think we're talking about the same thing.

If we ain't talking about the same thing, then please explain what the ratio is. The ratio between trying to make a basket and trying to pass.

Quote:
Your statement that players or people can't change is pretty foolish. Jordan came into the game with no 3pt shot and an iffy jumper. He changed his game just like many other players in the league, I'm pretty sure you were just trying to prove your point, but Gordon especially with the assistant coaches we have now could easily morph into the pg we need.

Actually, you assuming I meant that is pretty foolish in and of itself. I said the PG position is the hardest position to acclimate yourself in. I also substantiated that by saying no SG has ever moved to the PG position in their 4th year and become successful.

OptimusDimes
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clipper*joe wrote:
OptimusDimes wrote:

Most of Gordon's To's were the result of Gordon trying to penetrate and misshadling the ball(which could make your point) but not off his passing so to assume that he TO while passing is incorrect.

Well correct, me...What was the ratio since you seem to know. I know a lot of his TO's were a result of dribbing. Like I said in one of my first posts, he only passes the ball in the paint when he gets stuck. I'm not talking specifically about passes out of the paint, here. Wasn't I talking about dribble penetration? I think we're talking about the same thing.

If we ain't talking about the same thing, then please explain what the ratio is. The ratio between trying to make a basket and trying to pass.

Actually, you assuming I meant that is pretty foolish in and of itself. I said the PG position is the hardest position to acclimate yourself in. I also substantiated that by saying no SG has ever moved to the PG position in their 4th year and become successful.

OptimusDimes
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Wait for it...Wait for it...

OptimusDimes
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.

Chanceless Billups

OptimusDimes
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I've tried to post 3 times with this wack ass system and either I've gone over the quote quota or I wasn't holding my breath while rubbing my stomach and counting to ten...It's time to update some of these things.

Taylor
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Eric Gordon is a much better ball handler than people think. And not all PG's get 10 f'ing assists a game people. We have Bledsoe, who I am sure will be a suitable starter for us. However if some weird thing happens, Gordon can easily run the point with 0 problem, score at will, get assists, steals, blocks, boards you name it. Monta Ellis and Stephen Curry are listed as PG's and they pretty much = Eric Gordon minus all the steals they get.

Quit dumping on Gordon.

aRealClipper
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i think gordon is pretty good. He has many assists and pretty good D. Stop the hatin.

clipper*joe
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Seriously, who's hating? you people need to chill.

ClipperSean
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I also think Gordon lacks the natural instincts of a point gaurd. Its not impossible for him to acquire them but in my opinion its unlikely. Havn't seen mayo too much, but from what i've seen of him, i would rather him play point if him and gordon were playing at the same time. Not sure if he'd be worth trading Kaman, but if we could get him cheap, id be all for it.

Battlegun
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The problem with Mayo is consistency. Can he bring a good or great game on every night? But even so, giving up Ras or Foye + 1st or 2nd round pick will make the Clippers even younger and an upgrade on the SG spot.

Grillinnap
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Assist numbers can be pretty vague especially when it comes to non-point guards. Chances are Gordon's assists didn't come from playmaking, but from driving to the basket and finding and open shooter. It's like his intention is to score but he was defended pretty well and found an open teammate at the last minute.

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