Clippers' Eric Gordon makes a couple of points-Mo vs. BD

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clipper*joe
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Eric Gordon has been busy watching college basketball in person during his injury-induced layoff, but he turned to another sport, using a baseball analogy to describe the differences between his old point guard, Baron Davis, and the incumbent, Mo Williams. Gordon could return to the court Saturday and it may be against Davis, who will be playing his first game at Staples Center since the Clippers traded him and a future first-round pick to Cleveland for Williams and Jamario Moon last month. "They're different. Baron was more of guy who liked to bring it down, almost for the home run type of....

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big_giddy
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Great find CJ!

BDx10>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>MO

Derty_Bert
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Sounds like EJ is not all the way sold on Mo Williams. Baron is a better all around player, I'd rather have a homerun over a single anyday. Only thing Mo has on him is a better 3 point shot and that's debatable.

big_giddy
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^^^^^ Agree.

Clipswhit
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Hahah you guys serious? Gordon obviously prefers Mo to Baron. We've got two stars on the team, why would we want Baron to be the one to be held accountable on this team.

We'll no [Williams] is a guy... he just let's everybody do what they do. Baron, you had to have him accountable to have him play well."

The thing with guys going for home runs, its hard to hit for a high average when you're going for a home run. As the guy who always has the ball in his hands, we can't afford to be on his whims.

SamMays
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I read it and I have no idea what he was talking about. Sounded like he was tiptoeing and trying not to offend... The result, a very vanilla article... albeit a confusing sort of vanilla.

Clipswhit
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IMO for us to be successful, Gordon has got to step up into a distributors role. I'm thinking 5-6 assists out of both guys

loyalclipfan
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The way i think ej was trying to explain it in baseball terms is this; baron is like willie mc covey who could hit home runs, but not always win the game, where mo is....

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MrB
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To me it sounds like comparing Fuji apples to Granny Smith. To each his own on what you prefer. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. This is EJ's take.

clipper*joe
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@ Loyal

^^ Not really. I think what he's trying to say is that MO is a guy who isn't going to "stunt" his growth by dominating the ball and taking the last shot all the time. He's basically saying Baron needed the ball to create (agree) and Mo ain't going to stand in his way cause that's what he does (catch and shoot). You can see where he was going when he said he likes "making the last play"...Meaning, the last shot...Home run?

I think EJ has resentment for that. But, Gordon has had many chances to hit a home run and he either lost the ball, got it stolen, or didn't get a shot off. EJ just used a bad analogy. It was another jab just not a good one. Home run meant taking the last shot.

In simple terms, MO isn't going to steal his "home runs" and will defer to him.

Bottom line, I think EJ just wanted to be the home run hitter and Baron was standing in his way. Now he is going to held accountable just like Baron was. If we make the play-offs next season ( fully expect that), then the trade was a good trade. If we don't, that will be the 4th year with EJ that we haven't done a thing. The West is prime for us to make a move. If EJ can't get us to the 8th seed, I'll have to wonder if EJ ever will.

Greenmonk94
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mo williams is our PG... he aint a good defender.. aint the best passer... but he can shoot... and he at least doesnt fold under pressure

LoneyROY7
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Yet he's shooting 54 percent in the clutch this season...

toohipcliptoslip
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Do you remember Ted Williams? It's not Gordon. How much confidence does Mo' engender. With Baron this squad had a personality. We lost it.

clipper*joe
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LoneyROY7 wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:

I think EJ has resentment for that. But, Gordon has had many chances to hit a home run and he either lost the ball, got it stolen, or didn't get a shot off. EJ just used a bad analogy. It was another jab just not a good one. Home run meant taking the last shot.

Yet he's shooting 54 percent in the clutch this season...

Yet we didn't win much games when he was the 7th leading scorer and running the team.

LoneyROY7
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clipper*joe wrote:
LoneyROY7 wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:

I think EJ has resentment for that. But, Gordon has had many chances to hit a home run and he either lost the ball, got it stolen, or didn't get a shot off. EJ just used a bad analogy. It was another jab just not a good one. Home run meant taking the last shot.

Yet he's shooting 54 percent in the clutch this season...

Yet we didn't win much games when he was the 7th leading scorer and running the team.

Yet we're 7-19 with EJ out of the line-up.

loyalclipfan
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but i can't really see how we can compare mo yet as he hasn't played under vdn's system enough yet or the team for that matter. by the end of this season, we should have....

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clipper*joe
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And what was our record with him before Baron came back? Probably worse...And most of those games were at home. And the games that were on the road didn't get us more than 1-2 wins.

LoneyROY7
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clipper*joe wrote:
LoneyROY7 wrote:

Yet we're 7-19 with EJ out of the line-up.

And what was our record with him before Baron came back? Probably worse...And most of those games were at home. And the games that were on the road didn't get us more than 1-2 wins.

But if Baron was the main factor in the Clippers' success as you claim, why did we fall flat on our faces when EJ went down? Including breaking the Cavs historic losing streak...

youngkano
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maybe because, Rhino, Cook, Gordon, Kaman were all out? And also the fact we were going on an 11 game road trip? that's why we we were losing.

Im not gonna debate on who is better Baron or Mo, but i will comment on EJ. He wants to be the man, as a matter of fact, i bet you if BG develops a good jumper and more of a reliable closer, he'd probably complain about that. Gordon is good, pure scorer, but he hasn't done anything in the clutch moments of close games to warrant my confidence in him to close out the game. He has the ability, but doesn't seem to have the poise. I've watch him kick it off his feet, step out of bound, throw the ball away, turn the ball over numerous times just trying. We've lost games because he couldnt get a shot off because lack of dribble ability. Until he proves he can be the Homerun hitter, then he shouldnt even mention of anyone wanting to be a homerun hitter. He's struck out numerous times bottom of the 9th with 2 outs.

Icecoldclipper
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LoneyROY7 wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
LoneyROY7 wrote:

Yet we're 7-19 with EJ out of the line-up.

And what was our record with him before Baron came back? Probably worse...And most of those games were at home. And the games that were on the road didn't get us more than 1-2 wins.

But if Baron was the main factor in the Clippers' success as you claim, why did we fall flat on our faces when EJ went down? Including breaking the Cavs historic losing streak...

No help its basic NBA knowledge young teams struggle greatly on the road now add all our vets were down and the ones we had were Foye (inconsistent) and Gomes (worthless) only vets we had that brought it were Davis and Diogu. With all that Baron still played his ass off and led a 4th quarter charge in all those games. We played elite teams and Baron couldn't rest for a second because Bledsoe was so horrible running the team after we got done with the elite teams Baron was wearing down from the strain and his knee went out which was the most understandable injury we have had all season. Even then he rode it out. Against the Cavs we were deflated mentally and physically Baron tried late to steal the game back but it was a terrible perfromance by everyone.

Far as Gordon goes he is trying to be the man before he earns it. Baron did need the ball in his hands because it was the only time things didn't blow up every position. Gordon needs to remember it was Baron who was controlling the ball that got him back out of his 3pt slump. Gordon tries to be hero and things go wrong he should be more grateful Baron had no problem getting him the ball when he moved around and was active.

SDclipper
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I feel like EJ was trying to be cautious with his words but when he said stuff like "you had to make Baron accountable..." and "you just never know", it kind of seemed to me like if he had to pick someone in his mind he would pick Mo.

CeeSizzle
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Mo Williams knows what is to be a "role player." Thats exactly what he was in Cleveland with Lebron. And yeah, you can argue that he didnt do well in the playoffs, but neither did Lebron. That whole team didnt show up. But Mo was great with Lebron - He didnt stand in his way of letting Lebron be Lebron and so far he's let Blake do his thing. Mo is not a selfish player by any means. He may not have the passing ability of Baron Davis, but im sure he'll delegate more to EJ than Baron did. Its one thing being the assist man to Blake when he gets on sportscenter for a crazy alley-oop dunk. Look at me Im Baron Davis and I threw that oop! I dont think Baron thought he'd get on sportscenter with a pass to Eric Gordon.

My point is, Mo knows how to play next to superstars. He knows his role. Baron has always been "the guy" - and even this year he needed to be in every play with Blake. Let Mo do his thing, create space, which frees up room for Blake and Ej. I think its going to work out really nice once all three are healthy and clicking

youngkano
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Create space? lol only thing he creates is shots...for himself. Mo was Lebron's sidekick, but all he did was spot up and shoot. Anyone can do that. He didnt bring the ball up...nope that was Lebron, he didnt create...nope that was Lebron. He didn't break defenders down so others get shot...nope that was Lebron, he was the benificiary of the assist. Of course he was a good role player to Lebron. Everyone was a good role player for Lebron with the Cavs. Who would stand in Lebron's way of being Lebron? Why do you think Lebron considered coming here in the first place in free agency, because Baron, He and Baron are good friends and He knew Baron was a great passer. Why do you think Mo and Baron almost swapped team last year? Because Lebron wanted Baron over Mo. But it didnt happen. If Mo knew what it is to be a role player, then maybe he should play his role better and be a "point guard" and not a "shooting" guard. Break defenders down and dish off, pick and roll and give to the roller. Instead he breaks defenders down to pull up or get a pick and pop.

jarca
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were u guys whining to let this topic go lol

anyways.. eg is right about one thing, baron is unpredictable.

Baron's leadership didnt help the cavs last night from beinig smashed by 40 points. and mo is about to go 3 and 0 against baron this season.

clipperboy24
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this too me clearly shows why Gordon didnt like Baron and why i have always complained about Baron: lack of effort. Not too many people are willing to say Mo i more talented than Baron but the fact that he is playing hard out there and giving it his all and actually is a better shooter, he is a better fit imo. Especially with players like Blake and Kaman who demand a double team and with a good ball handling SG in Gordon makes him a decent short term solution.

All of this is just buying time for Bledsoe to grow more. Rajon Rondo w/ a shot here we come:)

LoneyROY7
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How is he shooting 54.3 percent in the clutch then?

youngkano
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LoL and Mo is so predictable he gets us so much wins? He so consistant in his 3pt's. He so predictable for us that we expect him to shoot and not pass the ball? I guess Baron isn't the Only Predictable one. 40 points, ok, well at least Baron wasnt on a team that had the worst losing streak in sports. Wait i predict that was Mo's team?

youngkano
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in the clutch? haha you mean in the 4th quarter but before the game is on the line? maybe becuause he doesnt shoot much because he always looses the ball so that doesnt count as a shot? lol

jarca
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anyone but baron can catch and shoot. lebron never considered coming here. that's why our meeting lasted for 30 mins instead of 3 hours

LoneyROY7
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We also lost successive games to the Cavs, Raptors, and Bucks...

jarca
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he was injured and broke that streak in front of baron's best game.

Came to Baron's team and won without EJ and averaged more points than Baron ever did. Baron is a better player but when he's old, lazy, and out of shape i dont want him on my team. Give me someone who at least give a sh1t and wont hog the ball to rack up his assists

youngkano
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Even if he shot 54% ...1 out of 4 tries, he'll make it and make it 1 out of every 2 shots, that's like 1 out of 8 he makes. You can't sit there and tell me he doesnt turn the ball over or throw it away, kicks it off his knees or run out of time trying to shoot. Everyone here cant deny that.

LoneyROY7
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http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM

Do some research before you make blanket, untrue statements.

Of the top ten clutch players so far this season, guess who is shooting the highest percentage? Yep, it's Eric Gordon.

jarca
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LoneyROY7 wrote:
Quote:
No help its basic NBA knowledge young teams struggle greatly on the road now add all our vets were down and the ones we had were Foye (inconsistent) and Gomes (worthless) only vets we had that brought it were Davis and Diogu. With all that Baron still played his ass off and led a 4th quarter charge in all those games. We played elite teams and Baron couldn't rest for a second because Bledsoe was so horrible running the team after we got done with the elite teams Baron was wearing down from the strain and his knee went out which was the most understandable injury we have had all season. Even then he rode it out. Against the Cavs we were deflated mentally and physically Baron tried late to steal the game back but it was a terrible perfromance by everyone.

We also lost successive games to the Cavs, Raptors, and Bucks...

LOL.. when we win games it's cuz of baron but when we lose we blame it on EJ and kaman missing. Which one is it. It's like the baron davis approach taking ALL the credit but NONE of the blame

jarca
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and you cant tell me that baron is not old, fat, lazy, and turnover prone who cant shoot

jarca
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LoneyROY7 wrote:
youngkano wrote:
in the clutch? haha you mean in the 4th quarter but before the game is on the line? maybe becuause he doesnt shoot much because he always looses the ball so that doesnt count as a shot? lol

http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM

Do some research before you make blanket, untrue statements.

Of the top ten clutch players so far this season, guess who is shooting the highest percentage? Yep, it's Eric Gordon.

he'll counter with "Baron created that shot opportunity for him" lol

youngkano
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No one is saying Baron made us win, but what we are saying is that just like all the praise Gordon gets, then you should look at his blame as well. You guys blaming this and that and No one has blame Gordon, he's just too good. Just telling you how it is, He turns ball over. He wants to be the "Man", then he has to do it. He says Baron's a talker, but he wants to be the Guy, then Show it. Get your butt on the floor and not always on the bench sitting with injuries year in and year out, and when games on the line, Close the games out. Dont turn ball over. So many times i've watch him turn the ball over at critical times in the games that makes me say WTF!.

clipperboy24
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you sound like the sex panther guy from anchorman, "50% of the time it works every time"

the blind baron support is crazy to me. guy isnt even on the team and he never helpedus win and we paid him a lot of money. tell me why everyone loved him so much? I guess many bought into Baron's false promises

youngkano
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Ok so he's lazy, fat , and cant shoot...so who is on the floor more the last few years? Baron or Gordon. You saying this and that but if Gordon cant even stay on the floor, so what? what will that hELP. This got nothing to do with Baron. We talking about Gordon. What will you say? who will you blame next season if Gordon goes down again. What will your excuse me since Baron is gone? If Kaman gets hurt again misses time and Gordon gets hurts misses critical time "again" what will you say then?

youngkano
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lol this isn't about Baron, 24 we talking about Gordon. This year i've watch him turn ball over at critical times, lose games for us at clutch times because he cant even get a shot off. So if he cant get a shot off, does that go into account of FG% of clutch time? it's not included. Too many times i've seen him turn the ball over again and again in critical situations.

youngkano
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lol@bought into Baron's false promises. If im guilty of that, then you are guilty in buying into Sterling'S and the Clippers false promises for the last few decades lol

clipper*joe
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LoneyROY7 wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:
LoneyROY7 wrote:

Yet we're 7-19 with EJ out of the line-up.

And what was our record with him before Baron came back? Probably worse...And most of those games were at home. And the games that were on the road didn't get us more than 1-2 wins.

But if Baron was the main factor in the Clippers' success as you claim, why did we fall flat on our faces when EJ went down? Including breaking the Cavs historic losing streak...

I claimed? I never claimed anything. I put perspective on things. You want to make it sound as if Gordon is the only reason we went 7-19. You want to make it sound that way, then I'll go that same route. It has nothing to do with Baron. It has to do with telling the truth.

With Gordon leading this team, we went on a 9 game losing streak in November with most of the games at home.

In November we went 3-12 without BD. That's with Gordon shooting 54 % in the clutch. And remember that clutch stat is only for games with "4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points".

So what looks worse?

7-19 or 3-12?

  • This isn't about Baron, this is about the guy who wants to be the guy. For a guy who holds and takes the most shots and chucked away from the 3 pt line at a whopping 17 %, he has the nerve to complain.

Edit:

We also went 0-7 on the road in that month.

0-7 on the road

3-12 in that month. The month Gordon was the 7th leading scorer in the league. One can also say that with Kaman back, and BD and EJ out, the team was able to win on the road.

dwb
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Interesting. In the same interview Gordon says that Baron is questionable as to his motivation and effort, and yet felt entitled to take the last shot. Sounds like what he was saying was that Baron is an ego driven player. After all, if your team can't count on your consistent effort why would you expect to be the "go to" guy in the most crucial situations? Logically you wouldn't, unless your ego told you different. Baron's always told him different. It's part of why he felt like he could loft up so many threes despite a miserable shooting percentage from that range. (and there is no debate about whether Mo shoots the three better, he does) Although Eric soft-pedaled the notion, (almost no player is going to publically outright trash another, so no surprise there - his uncensored opinion might be a bit more to the point) the indication seems clear. He expects Mo to be a more reliable point, and he assumes that he'll see more of the ball in late game situations. As he should. From his POV the trade is win/win.

clipperAndrew
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If Gordon is injured every year because he was making basketball moves to help us win a game that are NOT PREVENTABLE I will never blame him...if he comes to camp out of shape and disinterested in playing and misses game because of something PREVENTABLE than I will blame him.

How anyone compares to the two is just plane ignorant. Missing games is missing games I agree there, but the way it happens you cannot compare the two.

LoneyROY7
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It goes both ways, when EJ went down and it was Baron's chance to lead the team, we went 4-10 (2 home victories against the Bobcats and Bucks and two road victories against the Knicks and T'Wolves).

And if Gordon going down wasn't the reason for the Clippers going 7-19 during that stretch, is it then a coincidence that we were beating teams like the Heat and Lakers literally one or two games before he went down?

When validating your argument that Baron shouldn't have been traded, you've always mentioned that before EJ went down we were beating great teams...so is that no longer true?

Both EJ and Baron have played big roles in the Clippers' victories this season, and when one or the other have been out, the team has struggled mightily...that much is obvious.

I also didn't see EJ's quotes as complaining...I mean he compliments Baron's abilities in the article.

On a side note Joe, who will you be rooting for on Saturday?

clipper*joe
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Part of the reason why Gordon is getting hurt is because of the way he drives. He goes in a straight line, trying to beat his man. Players like Rose, Kobe, and the sort have the ability to change, stop, and alter the the direction they're going in based on the way the defense is moving. In other words, your chances of getting hit hard when you're going in a straight line versus guys that move around the defense are far more likely to get hurt.

And lets put things into perspective, Gordon hasn't done a THING in his time here. He lost him last season when we were close to .500 and we lost him this season when we were the hottest team. That is the plain truth whether you want to play the ignorant card or not. The only times we had a chance to change things around here, Gordon has gotten hurt.

Plain unadulterated truth, right there.

clipsfansincebirth
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Since when does a good moderator of any website start jumping on people's throats just because they don't agree with someones idea.............looks like power does corrupt............sad

youngkano
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Ok clipperandrew then maybe we should sign greg oden, since he usually works out hard and tries to come into camp in shape. The fact of the matter is you get injured, miss games. Those missed games cost us games, wich will cost us chance for playoffs. Thats all im saying. If he gets injured every year playing like magette, them maybe he needs to learn to adjust his fames so he doesnt always get hurt and miss 20 or more games a season. Because like it or not, its reality. Injuries, can be devastating and if it happens every year, and we get nowhere, what then?

LoneyROY7
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Just because he's a moderator doesn't mean he can't express his opinion.

People take differing view points or citicism of their view points WAY too much to heart on this forum.

Joe and I may have different views on a certain subject, but that doesn't mean he's 'jumping down my throat.'

clipper*joe
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See, that's my point. We needed both players. The facts prove we were a hot team with both guys on the floor, Kaman was a non factor. That's my point. You came out with the 7-19 stuff, not me. I just used that same rationale and it ends up that we had a worse record with Gordon leading this team. That wasn't my intention, you made the comparison, not me.

EJ has a history of taking shots at BD. He just isn't articulate enough to make his point obvious, or make it subtle. He ends up with a terrible analogy that just made no sense.

Look, People around here know that I have been very critical of EJ the past 2 seasons. Up until this season, he was terrible in the paint. This season he became a little more composed. I gave him props. I just don't think he should be talking the way he has n the media, he isn't a player that merits that stage. It also makes him look petty coming out talking about his teammates like that. EJ is a me first player through and through.

Seems like the only person that had a grudge on BD was EJ. No one else seemed to. Doesn't that send up a red flag about the way EJ carries himself?

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