Why don't we do a big line up: Kaman, De Andre, Blake

Clippers TopBuzz Forum/Message Board » Clippers News & General Discussions
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Author Search This Topic:
 
clippersblue
Clipper Starter
Posts: 329
votes: 5

Why the heck do we not do something different. The Lakers have the twin towers, why shouldn't we. Twin tower line ups work incredibly well. Blake is good enough to play the small forward, and he would easily overpower the opposing small forward by posting him up. Kaman can spread the floor with his shot, I don't see why we wouldn't use this line up as an advantage. Del Negro doesn't strike me as a creative coach. We need to play big to win, that is our advantage as a team. All the other teams have better guards. What do you think. And yes I know Blake uses his speed to beat opposing power forwards, but couldn't he use his strength to do that to small forwards?

Clippers_FTW
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4542

us.gif
votes: 11

sure.. Blake would out power almost every small forward out there but he is not fast enough to keep up with them. Someone else brought up that same point. You take away what Blake has over the other power forwards in the game which is his strengh and speed. Running around trying to keep up with a small forward will tire Blake out.

loyalclipfan
Clipper Starter
Posts: 818
Location: Mira Loma, Ca. 91752
votes: 3
I would also like to see this line up tried, and hope to hell kaman could stay healthy all year like he did in the past. but whether we use this lineup would depend to....

Please log in to view the entire post.

dwb
Clipper Starter
Posts: 705
Location: Tallahassee
votes: 28

Blake is the uber power forward. Why tire (and foul) him out chasing SFs around?

loyalclipfan
Clipper Starter
Posts: 818
Location: Mira Loma, Ca. 91752
votes: 3

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't lebron listed as a small forward? and if that's true, why would you expect blake's game style to change much as far as scoring goes?

Clippers_FTW
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4542

us.gif
votes: 11

Anyways.... Kamen will probably be traded for a quality SF

Clipswhit
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1730

am.gif
votes: 7

Id love to pick up a quality 4th big and try this out

ClipYourWings
Clipper Starter
 Avatar
Posts: 467

ca.gif
votes: 5

LeBron is faster, quicker, has better handles, and (it pains me to say it) a better jumpshot than Blake does. Small Forwards are almost always taller SGs... LeBron can get away without a consistent jumper because he handles the ball well in traffic and can actually hit his freethrows. As long as he puts his head down and runs towards the basket, 99% of the time he'll draw a foul and sink 2 from the line.

Griffin is better at these things compared to conventional power fowards, but not good enough to play the wing. No jump shot means he can't stretch the defense, and that will clog our sets in the half court (see: Ryan freaking Gomes, all year) because other 3's will just play off him ala Rondo and grab the rebound off his missed J.

If you don't believe me:

Griffin (3-9 feet, 42% FG)

Griffin (10-15 feet, 32% FG)

Griffin (16-23 feet, 33% FG)

He scores best off of transition (77%), putbacks (54%), and by cutting to the basket (67%)... but is horrible when he has to isolate (34%), spot up (40%), or come off a screen (25%).

Long story short: I said this already, but putting Blake at the 3 would kill every advantage he has and turn them into liabilities. This is why we should never try this, even as a joke.

........ and this is just on offense. On defense... well... let's not think about that.

Clipswhit
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1730

am.gif
votes: 7

How exactly would blake at the 3 mess up hi numbers? I'm sure he'd still get out in transition, he'd still have some put back dunks, and he'd still be able to cut to the basket for lobs. Nobody is proposing moving him to the 3 permenantly, but if we get a 4th solid big, we can play griffin minutes at the 3 until one of our front court players gets hurt (its bound to happen, that's why we need depth.

ClipYourWings
Clipper Starter
Posts: 467

ca.gif
votes: 5

Did you even read my post? The reason you don't put Blake Griffin at the 3 is because his next highest % of points come off of posting up and pick and rolls: power forward skills. What successful small forward has zero range in his game? Please name them for me. You utilize your players and play to your strengths... this is simple Coaching 101. Outside of 9 feet, Griffin is a liability on offense and even worse on defense. What positive things would come out of putting Griffin at the 3 (who has no jumpshot and cannot stretch the floor), Kaman at the 4 (who cannot pass out of a double team like Griffin), and Jordan at 5 (who has no post game whatsoever)?

Clippersfan86
CTB MVP Champion
Posts: 15308
votes: 89

You guys have short memories! At the end of the Dallas game Vinny did this and guess what the result was? A 9-0 run to get us right back into the game with like a minute left (though we lost). So those saying it won't work aren't correct at least according to the small sampling we have. Will it work long term? No. For 10-12 minutes a game to mix things up? Yes. I mean why can you go with a 3 guard lineup but not a 3 F/C lineup? Blake may not shoot well outside but he doesn't have to. He can post up any SF in the league including Lebron. His ballhandling, decision making, rebounding and perimeter defense are all good enough to play the 3 for short spans.

david
Site Admin
Posts: 8509
votes: 42

I've seen Blake do a pretty solid job guarding the perimeter, and I've always been a proponent of giving this combination a try. I think as Blake improves on his outside shot even more this combo could work out nicely- assuming of course neither Kaman nor Jordan leave the team.

loyalclipfan
Clipper Starter
Posts: 818
Location: Mira Loma, Ca. 91752
votes: 3
If you don't believe me: Griffin (3-9 feet, 42% FG) Griffin (10-15 feet, 32% FG) Griffin (16-23 feet, 33% FG) He scores best off of transition (77%), putbacks (54%), and by cutting to the basket (67%)... but....

Please log in to view the entire post.

loyalclipfan
Clipper Starter
Posts: 818
Location: Mira Loma, Ca. 91752
votes: 3
Very Happy that's what i said, just a quarter or two, depending on the game situation! i don't know if it could work as a starting line up, but what a line up CHALLENGE this....

Please log in to view the entire post.

jcdigital
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1776

us.gif
votes: 15

if you put BG out on the wing he will get abused by the extremely quick SFs in teh league. Think there is no way he is staying in front of the likes of a danny granger or a Iggy. Then u have the questions of who is going to play out on the perimeter cuz you cant have 3 in the paint posting up. Kaman will not work on the perimeter and neither will BG and we never ever want DJ on the perimeter. It would be stupid to put BG on the perimeter and take him out of his comfort zone just because we have a whole at the SF position.

It is all about figuring out how to be successful in the league and blake griffin is already figuring that out on the block right now, why make him have to be on teh perimeter? Plus we saw this line up in the last game of the season and it definitely didnt work. The guys had no idea what their roles were and who ever was out on the perimeter was just lost. This idea just doesnt work.

Clippersfan86
CTB MVP Champion
 Avatar
Age: 28
Posts: 15308
votes: 89

Yes and no. He guarded Lebron well off switches this season and I've seen him shut down Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay on a full court press. Guarded both of them all the way down the floor and forced them into a bad shot. Blake may not be a capable 3 yet full time.. but his perimeter defense is the best among all bigmen in the league actually. He allows .5 points per possession on isolation/perimeter attempts (best for 4's and 5's in the league). Meaning he has a guard like perimeter defense. His weakness defensively comes from interior defense, not getting back in transition and taking possessions off defensively. He does very well on the perimeter so when he gets a switch I'm not too worried.

toohipcliptoslip
CTB MVP X1
 Avatar
Posts: 4710
votes: 31

Clippersfan86 wrote:
jcdigital wrote:
if you put BG out on the wing he will get abused by the extremely quick SFs in teh league. Think there is no way he is staying in front of the likes of a danny granger or a Iggy. Then u have the questions of who is going to play out on the perimeter cuz you cant have 3 in the paint posting up. Kaman will not work on the perimeter and neither will BG and we never ever want DJ on the perimeter. It would be stupid to put BG on the perimeter and take him out of his comfort zone just because we have a whole at the SF position.

It is all about figuring out how to be successful in the league and blake griffin is already figuring that out on the block right now, why make him have to be on teh perimeter? Plus we saw this line up in the last game of the season and it definitely didnt work. The guys had no idea what their roles were and who ever was out on the perimeter was just lost. This idea just doesnt work.

Yes and no. He guarded Lebron well off switches this season and I've seen him shut down Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay on a full court press. Guarded both of them all the way down the floor and forced them into a bad shot. Blake may not be a capable 3 yet full time.. but his perimeter defense is the best among all bigmen in the league actually. He allows .5 points per possession on isolation/perimeter attempts (best for 4's and 5's in the league). Meaning he has a guard like perimeter defense. His weakness defensively comes from interior defense, not getting back in transition and taking possessions off defensively. He does very well on the perimeter so when he gets a switch I'm not too worried.

No Sh*t? I proposed this a long while ago CK, DJ, BG. I was kinda serious. EJ BUT----BD cry What a power line up.

Clippersfan86
CTB MVP Champion
 Avatar
Age: 28
Posts: 15308
votes: 89

toohipcliptoslip wrote:
Clippersfan86 wrote:
jcdigital wrote:
if you put BG out on the wing he will get abused by the extremely quick SFs in teh league. Think there is no way he is staying in front of the likes of a danny granger or a Iggy. Then u have the questions of who is going to play out on the perimeter cuz you cant have 3 in the paint posting up. Kaman will not work on the perimeter and neither will BG and we never ever want DJ on the perimeter. It would be stupid to put BG on the perimeter and take him out of his comfort zone just because we have a whole at the SF position.

It is all about figuring out how to be successful in the league and blake griffin is already figuring that out on the block right now, why make him have to be on teh perimeter? Plus we saw this line up in the last game of the season and it definitely didnt work. The guys had no idea what their roles were and who ever was out on the perimeter was just lost. This idea just doesnt work.

Yes and no. He guarded Lebron well off switches this season and I've seen him shut down Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay on a full court press. Guarded both of them all the way down the floor and forced them into a bad shot. Blake may not be a capable 3 yet full time.. but his perimeter defense is the best among all bigmen in the league actually. He allows .5 points per possession on isolation/perimeter attempts (best for 4's and 5's in the league). Meaning he has a guard like perimeter defense. His weakness defensively comes from interior defense, not getting back in transition and taking possessions off defensively. He does very well on the perimeter so when he gets a switch I'm not too worried.

No Sh*t? I proposed this a long while ago CK, DJ, BG. I was kinda serious. EJ BUT----BD cry What a power line up.

Blake would no doubt have trouble guarding quicker, smaller players for an ENTIRE game... but this lineup will work for 10 minute bursts. I mean think about it. If 6'3 Randy Foye can play 3 in a 3 guard lineup... how bad can Blake playing 3 be? You can never flat out say it will or won't work until you try it. I agree though the stats surprised me Very Happy

Purpose
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 40

rp.gif
votes: 0

Yea sure that may present a problem against certan teams, but what team would be able to match up with a tall lineup on the other end. It's about which team will impose their will more.

Blake exceeded our expextations once. There is no question in my mind that he becomes an even more well rounded player next season. If anything, we should not question but embrace the beast that is blake f'in griffin. Amen.

Clippersfan86
CTB MVP Champion
 Avatar
Age: 28
Posts: 15308
votes: 89

Purpose wrote:
Clippers_FTW wrote:
sure.. Blake would out power almost every small forward out there but he is not fast enough to keep up with them. Someone else brought up that same point. You take away what Blake has over the other power forwards in the game which is his strengh and speed. Running around trying to keep up with a small forward will tire Blake out.

Yea sure that may present a problem against certan teams, but what team would be able to match up with a tall lineup on the other end. It's about which team will impose their will more.

Blake exceeded our expextations once. There is no question in my mind that he becomes an even more well rounded player next season. If anything, we should not question but embrace the beast that is blake f'in griffin. Amen.

"People always ask me why I'd play a 6'0 player at SG and say he is too small to guard opposing players but I tell them they are going to have a much harder time trying to figure out how to guard him"

Former Sixers coach on Allen Iverson.

This is the exact scenario. Maybe too slow (though I disagree and evidence backs me up with his guard like agility course times).. but way too strong, too athletic.. and too big for 3's to guard or stop.

clipperboy24
CTB MVP X1
Posts: 4862
votes: 37

Now i find two posible things wrong with your number comparisons. first, are you are comparing griffin's ROOKIE numbers with lebron's season or career numbers? do me a BIG FAVOR and look up and POST lebron's rookie season stats and then let's see who played the best, ok? again, you forget that deandre would be in griffin's defensive 4 spot, and griffin has been making improvement on his outer shooting all year long. again, compare griffin's shooting stats since the all-star break and see if he did improve, 1st half season vs. second half, ok? again, i would just like this line up tried for say some preseason games, and see how it pans out for a quarter or two against certain teams. but i again say if this works out, we need BIG improvements on our bench for this line up to work. wink

Blake's shooting outside the paint is atrocious. No doubt he can grow, but that is his main flaw right now, outside of defense.

Even with that in consideration, i have been proposing this for a while now. I think at least give it whirl, because i think we can dominate the other teams with that lineup.

jcdigital
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1776

us.gif
votes: 15

remember guys you cant just take blake griffin's numbers and translate them to the SF spot. He is not a perimeter player and neither is Kaman or DJ. Do u guys really expect them to play in the paint? Go download the memphis game and you will see they all were lost when they all were out on the floor because no one knew wat to do on offense when they were the one playing up top. Put blake griffin on the wing and you better have finishers as all positions because his scoring will go down and his rebounds will go down but maybe his assists might go up a little bit. Definitely not worth it.

Clippersfan86
CTB MVP Champion
 Avatar
Age: 28
Posts: 15308
votes: 89

Jc... according to the one sample we have.. Blake led a 9-0 run to bring us right back into the Mavs game with 1 minute left in the game. Not much... but does show it's a possibility. Nobody is saying move him to 3. We are saying for periods of 10 minutes at a time maybe.. try it out. That way we can play DJ and Kaman both.

Go To the Top of the ThreadGo Home

or Comment Using FB

Post new topic   Reply to topic


← Anyone Watch WORKAHOLICS on Comedy Central? Clippers

→ a more pressing concern-our bench players for next year!

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

register
You are an anonymous user- Register now!


Follow our Los Angeles Clippers RSS Feed, plus the Clippers Rumors RSS Feed, the LA Clippers News RSS feed, and the Clippers Forum RSS feed to get the newest updated Clippers News and Trade Rumors plus Clippers Game update in your RSS/XML reader!