Josh Smith to the Clippers? (P. 2)

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clipper*joe
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Clippersfan86 wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:

86, the Clippers never offered him anything when he was available and we needed someone. After Memphis gave him an offer sheet, he was never looked at again. Even Pincus said he's not on our radar.

The Clippers FO never officially announced it but we were in talks with Josh Smith during his free agency as well as trade talks linking us to him previously much like we were with Iguodala the last 2 seasons. He was a RESTRICTED free agent and the Hawks said they were going to keep him if it meant matching which is why only Memphis took a shot on it. Atlanta matched Memphis. They actually matched it the same day I believe. It doesn't mean we weren't interested in or pursuing him.

From what I remember, we weren't in talks with him. Dunleavy was in talks with Denver for Camby. One of the reasons why we didn't go after Smith was because we knew that Atlanta was going to match. Dunleavy didn't want to tie up the money for a week when we had no PF. I don't ever remember Atlanta in trade talks with us. They wanted to keep him from the start. They just wanted the market to set the price. I clearly remember Dunleavy not being interested in him. Josh wasn't ideal for the PF position.

Wasn't he playing SF at the time? Not sure why we would max out on a guy playing out of position at the time.

seanrooks
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OK, so we do agree on some things. Smith isn't the best fit, but yes, I agree that sometimes you have to settle, and that if we settled for him he would have a positive, if possibly somewhat limited, impact. Question is, is he really worth Kaman when there are other rumors floating around that Kaman may be worth more, and is Smith's contract worth taking on and virtually killing our chances at the 2012 FA class?

what_up_clipnation83
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At the end of the day beggars can't be choosers. You guys act like people are lining up at the door begging for Kaman roll . If we can move him for ANY all star caliber SF including Josh Smith you do it with no hesitation. Josh Smith at his worst is twice as good as Gomes at his best usually. I'm actually more of a fan of us getting Iggy or Smith than let's say Rudy Gay or Granger. Iggy and Smith don't need shots to be effective. They rebound, play great defense and defer to teammates. Eric Gordon and Blake will likely come out very improved next season and want around 20 shots a game each. We DON'T need another guy who wants 15 shots a game.

I agree 100%

Clippersfan86
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Sean in sports I believe you ALWAYS go for the sure thing. We aren't a team that wants another rebuilding year or two. We want results NOW. We've been rebuilding the last 5 seasons (mostly unsuccessfully until last season). Blake Griffin, Eric Gordon, VDN, Olshey and everyone else involved with the team is counting on the playoffs next year. As Ryan Gomes said we need to just get there and see what kind of damage we can do to build on something and get confidence. I mean as Clippers fans we always nitpick contracts but look at how over the cap and how many overpaid players contenders have? When was the last time a team with salary cap space won a title??

That mentality needs to go out the window right now. I understand saving money with someone like Baron who brought a lot of negativity to the franchise but Josh Smith is usually healthy, in shape and capable. Why not give it a shot? Let's say we say no to Smith and hold Kaman for something better and it never comes around. Iggy and Granger end up on other teams, Wilson Chandler re-signs with Denver. Then what? We have no remaining options and we likely lose Kaman to free agency. I don't even know what I'll do if we go through another offseason without trying extremely hard to improve.

Putting all our eggs in the basket for Lebron last season was such a terrible idea. We could have went after other players. I have 0 interest in waiting for 2012 free agency and hoping CP3, Deron or Dwight signs like us because they all likely want to be on legit title contenders right now like Lebron did.

Jerediscool
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trade for JSmooth and then sign JR smith! booyaa!!!!! no one will be able to run with us!!

RLB1968
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All I know is kaman doesn't play D and is hurt a lot. Granger has a history of injuries. andre is not a great shooter. Smith would allow us to keep Minny pick, cap room could be used to sign Humphries of Nj as a big man BU or we may still sign Shane Battier who would be an awesom sixth man, The draft we can look for a back up C or PF and a shooter.

what_up_clipnation83
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Plus we still will have the Minny pick n 2012, I say do the trade.

jarca
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I dont care if Josh Smith is not a SF he'll add a lot of depth in this team. You cant pick and choose especially when we only have kaman to offer.

But if this trade falls through. then theres jr smith who's probably be thrilled 2 play in la

jarca
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This!

Clippersfan86
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Jr Smith would be a superb fit. His "attitude" and swagger comes from dealing with a coach like George Karl who's had more than one altercation with players because both of these guys are head strong. He is kind of a punk for sure... but I think he would be happy in LA and we definitely have a role for him. I think his outside shooting AND athleticism on the break would be tremendous for us. Maybe he would be close to an ideal fit for us. Thing is he's a 6'6 210 pound player who's a SG. Can he guard 3's?

clipperstown
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smith is a great defensive player, and defense wins championships. yeah, we need to build a team of shooters around blake... we going hte exact opposite won't be too bad either. having a team full of slashers would be amazing too. griffin gets ball in the post, double teamed, and he see's eitehr a) gordon wide open for a 3 b) mo wide open for a 3 c) gordon slashing to the rim d) smith slashing to the rim e) DJ getting ready to jump for the alley-oop or get an offensive rebound. griffin is an amazing passer for a PF, and building a team full of slasher will work too. then, we can sign like 2 Three Pointer Specialists to come off the bench. the real question would be, will we have to give up kaman AND the Minnesota pick? or are they going to want DJ? we know that they are going to ask us for a center, because this way horford gets to move to his real position at PF, and he might be able to shine there. kaman, aminu, and warren for josh smith?

jarca
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i can already imagine the fist fight between vdn vs. jr smith. LMAO... u know vdn dont take sh1t from anybody

clipperstown
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no we dont need smith, that's the last thing we need right now. foye is much more stable than smith.. smith has a crappy attitude and even crappier work ethic. if this guy had half the work ethic that blake has, then he would have been a multiple time all-star by now. he's so talented, yet so stupid.

big_giddy
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jarca wrote:
Clippersfan86 wrote:
Jr Smith would be a superb fit. His "attitude" and swagger comes from dealing with a coach like George Karl who's had more than one altercation with players because both of these guys are head strong. He is kind of a punk for sure... but I think he would be happy in LA and we definitely have a role for him. I think his outside shooting AND athleticism on the break would be tremendous for us. Maybe he would be close to an ideal fit for us. Thing is he's a 6'6 210 pound player who's a SG. Can he guard 3's?

i can already imagine the fist fight between vdn vs. jr smith. LMAO... u know vdn dont take sh1t from anybody

Yeah, just don't punch his face like Paxson did or else he'll leave the Clippers and find another team. lol

ClipsandBuffs
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I'd do this trade, as much as I do like Kaman as a person. Then trade our 2 2nd round picks for a late 1st round pick and snag Nikola Vucevic. Then target getting either Aron Affalo (my first choice) or JR smith.

Like someone said, BG is a good passer (good vision) and with a slashing Smith I could see a lot of and 1's. Not to mention if we could get Nikola, he could help spread the floor. Just an idea. =D

clipper*joe
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John Paxon says hello. Very Happy

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

clipper*joe
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big_giddy wrote:
jarca wrote:
Clippersfan86 wrote:
Jr Smith would be a superb fit. His "attitude" and swagger comes from dealing with a coach like George Karl who's had more than one altercation with players because both of these guys are head strong. He is kind of a punk for sure... but I think he would be happy in LA and we definitely have a role for him. I think his outside shooting AND athleticism on the break would be tremendous for us. Maybe he would be close to an ideal fit for us. Thing is he's a 6'6 210 pound player who's a SG. Can he guard 3's?

i can already imagine the fist fight between vdn vs. jr smith. LMAO... u know vdn dont take sh1t from anybody

Yeah, just don't punch his face like Paxson did or else he'll leave the Clippers and find another team. lol

Man, you beat me to it. Mad

/joke

big_giddy
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clipper*joe wrote:
big_giddy wrote:
jarca wrote:
i can already imagine the fist fight between vdn vs. jr smith. LMAO... u know vdn dont take sh1t from anybody

Yeah, just don't punch his face like Paxson did or else he'll leave the Clippers and find another team. lol

Man, you beat me to it. Mad

/joke

Haha! But i would love to have a John Paxson at the forefront of the Clips org. Someone who can punch an undeserving coach. I'm not really impressed with VDN.

tupac_makaveli
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I would trade kaman for smith because we have the Minny pick in 2012.That means We draft Perry Jones who can shot and have jhosh smith them 2 good S.F Twisted Evil

ToneE
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Smith ^3 ?

clipper*joe
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I was just reading this article a little more closely and realized that this isn't even a rumor. I wonder if this is the same guy from hoopsworld that said Kaman didn't want share time with DJ that was debunked a while ago. This time, the article doesn't say we want trade Kaman for Smith, it says the Hawks want to trade Smith for a center. The he goes on about , never mind, read it: After all, the Clippers have Chris Kaman angling to leave town rather than share time with DeAndre Jordan, and the Clippers have been involved in discussions....

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Steady818
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I see this as more of a plug and play team here kind of article... I'll be shocked if this even comes close to getting done

sz123456
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Between Griffin, Josh Smith, and DeAndre Jordan, we would do very well on the boards. All three are incredibly athletic, plus DJ's and Smith's wingspans are huge. Defense and rebounding wins championships (usually).

I liken Josh Smith in a lot of ways to Lamar Odom as far as shooting ability. Lamar couldn't hit the side of a barn from 3-pt. range while playing small forward, but that team was so successful because of the rebounding ability of that front line.

Clipswhit
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O oh my god why would we want two players who play like the best player on our team that makes no sense

ClipYourWings
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God no.

I would rather have Iguodala.

ClipperMark
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I wasn't going to say anything but in my head im like Hell NO. I've been reading a lot or u guys post and if i think back correctly at the trade deadline we all wanted to get Galinari (sorry if i spelled it wrong). Smith is not a legit 3. He is however a Stopper on the defensive side. we all talk about players that would complement Blake right? then why get another guy that spends most of his pt at the 4 position. I see teams collapsing down on. i dont think that he can spread the floor. All im saying is that if we really thought that Galliniri was the perfect fit for us or whatever the case might be why are we going for someone who is the opposite. I really cant comment on Smith all like that. I've only seen about 12 of his games all season. and i saw a couple playoff games. He will give us defense and he is a step up from gomes. But im just not ready to give up on AFA. but if the right deal is there then i guess we would have to do whats best for the team. As far as Kaman goes trade him. i think we should address the sf issue in the offseason. maybe keep him till the trade deadline is the right deal doesnt come. Everyone just remember all great teams win with a good point and center.

TheDude
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That would be beautiful. And it's actually realistic. Pacers would never take Kaman straight up for Granger, but they very well could be persuaded to take JSmith.

phaded21
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Since Smith is very similar to Blake, I think Smith is the perfect guy to do a three team trade.

If Granger is available, this could be the way we do it since Indiana already has a good center.

MannyA2
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What if we did the 3 team trade with Denver for Gallo? I think Denver has a large trade exception from the Melo trade so they can absorb Smith. I know Denver has Harrington but does anyone know if they could use Smith? I haven't followed Denver much.

SamMays
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You need to think of redundancy in salary cap too. It doesn't help a team to have two great players at one position, thus playing a player out of position, reducing his effectiveness. You don't get the bang for your buck... It's like having Dwight Howard and Andrew Bynum on the same team. Both outstanding players, but their skills overlap too much to make them effective together. One would have to go in favor of better team balance... You trade one of those guys for a great shooter...

Because Griffin and Smith are so similar in so many areas, it would be a bad combination and a foolish way for us to spend our money... Smith, as great a player as he is, wouldn't make us significantly better because he wouldn't shore up an area of weekness... Instead, he would add to an area of strength, like Orlando brining in Bynum to play with Howard.

clipperboy24
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TheDude wrote:
Hooch20 wrote:
I think Smith would be best served in a three team deal that involved the Pacers. The Pacers have wanted a PF for quite some time and Smith would fit in perfectly with the youth on the team. Add in a few more pieces here and there and I see no reason why Smith couldn't be headed to Indianapolis and why Granger couldn't be headed to the Clips.

That would be beautiful. And it's actually realistic. Pacers would never take Kaman straight up for Granger, but they very well could be persuaded to take JSmith.

agree as well. That would be a great fit for all teams involved.

tense2
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Which ever one we can nap will be the right fit for our needs... wink

illastrate
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clipper*joe wrote:
Clippersfan86 wrote:
clipper*joe wrote:

86, the Clippers never offered him anything when he was available and we needed someone. After Memphis gave him an offer sheet, he was never looked at again. Even Pincus said he's not on our radar.

The Clippers FO never officially announced it but we were in talks with Josh Smith during his free agency as well as trade talks linking us to him previously much like we were with Iguodala the last 2 seasons. He was a RESTRICTED free agent and the Hawks said they were going to keep him if it meant matching which is why only Memphis took a shot on it. Atlanta matched Memphis. They actually matched it the same day I believe. It doesn't mean we weren't interested in or pursuing him.

From what I remember, we weren't in talks with him. Dunleavy was in talks with Denver for Camby. One of the reasons why we didn't go after Smith was because we knew that Atlanta was going to match. Dunleavy didn't want to tie up the money for a week when we had no PF. I don't ever remember Atlanta in trade talks with us. They wanted to keep him from the start. They just wanted the market to set the price. I clearly remember Dunleavy not being interested in him. Josh wasn't ideal for the PF position.

Wasn't he playing SF at the time? Not sure why we would max out on a guy playing out of position at the time.

Actually, Dunleavy had dinner with Smith when he was a FA. But then the Camby deal came into play. If not for that, there was a possibility he would be a Clipper.

Clippersfan86
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Thanks Illastrate. I remember us courting Smith but didn't remember the details of how it went down.

JiveTalkinRobot
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You don't HAVE to take it.

Especially if it could put the team in jeopardy with a bloated contract for someone that may be ineffective.

However...

I actually think JSmoove would be an ok fit for this team now that Mo is here. Shooting was emphasized a lot during the Baron days and I think that mentality has carried over, however I think the team is different right now.

With Mo and EJ in the backcourt, there's enough shooting power to spread the floor.

I think the ideal SF role has shifted slightly.

What the team needs is a hardnosed, gritty, rebounding, glue guy type SF.

He's slightly redundant over BG and DJ, however he plays in a different position and in a different spot. He can track the long rebounds that EJ is horrible at tracking.

He can also provide some weak side blocks, let's face it Blake will never be a good shot blocker so even though DJ is there, he can't be there all the time.

His passing is underrated as well.

In summary, I wouldn't mind if Josh Smith was picked up.

clipperboy24
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SamMays wrote:
Quote:

Sam.. you, Joe and a few others do have a very good/valid point in the redundancy comment. Thing is.. IF Granger, Iguodala and Rudy Gay aren't available you take the best option. Our team wants the playoffs next year. The players and front office EXPECT it. If we go another offseason losing out on every option and good free agent it's going to be a massive blow to our playoff hopes. Sometimes in sports you DO have to settle. Kaman is going to walk after next season I have 0 doubt. It's better to have our SF situation resolved before the season so our guys can all go through training camp together and gel a bit. Doing a midseason trade may compromise the season. Josh Smith is good enough to where his skills will offset his shortcomings.

You need to think of redundancy in salary cap too. It doesn't help a team to have two great players at one position, thus playing a player out of position, reducing his effectiveness. You don't get the bang for your buck... It's like having Dwight Howard and Andrew Bynum on the same team. Both outstanding players, but their skills overlap too much to make them effective together. One would have to go in favor of better team balance... You trade one of those guys for a great shooter...

Because Griffin and Smith are so similar in so many areas, it would be a bad combination and a foolish way for us to spend our money... Smith, as great a player as he is, wouldn't make us significantly better because he wouldn't shore up an area of weekness... Instead, he would add to an area of strength, like Orlando brining in Bynum to play with Howard.

Tim Duncan/ David Robinson tandem begs to differ. I think BG can learn to develop a shot and actually midrange JSmoove shoots: 39% which is 2% better than Danny Granger. His 3 pt shooting is not good but even 33% was better than anything Baron gave us:)

I would be happy with Josh Smith or Granger or Prince or Butler or Iggy or Gay... basically any starting quality SF because right now we are desperate to get tat position filled.

clipper*joe
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You're right. They did have dinner ( July 9th) but nothing ever came of it. Four days later, we got Camby. Atlanta was going to match anyway. They did when Smith signed the offer sheet.

By the way, Josh Smith signed an offer sheet ( Aug 9th-a month later ) with the Grizzlies which means Dunleavy wasn't sold on him or knewthe offer was going to be matched. Atlanta matched the offer the same day.

He was never going to be a Clipper, Dunleavy never made an offer. He was also one of the only FA's in the market. Okefor was the other. Both restricted too.

ClipperPanda
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looking at the salaries, Josh Smith is set to make 12M+ for the next 3 years. Kaman is 12M+ for the next 2. if having salary freedom is a plus, we might want to look at swapping MoWill for Hinrich, both are about 8-9M this year and next but Hinrich doesn't have that player option. With Teague blowing up in the playoffs does ATL really need Hinrich? Hinrich is a shooter and facilitator that is an upgrade over MoWill in the passing department.

On a side note, in a pick and roll system athleticism shines more than technical skill, Josh Smith is about as athletic as it gets and the clippers run a pick and roll system. Whoever mentioned BG's passing skills also hit the nail on the head in my mind.

Name another SF option that has been to the playoffs more than Josh Smith, yes he has come up short but he has won. Something our U23 team needs. If you include Hinrich that is 2 players with playoff experience, both have won.

LotsoHope
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Feel like Josh Smith is a backup option in case we can't get the small forward we want. Smith wants to play the 4, he's certainly not a 3 or 5, and neither is Blake, and nobody expects Smith to be ok coming off the bench. This trade doesn't seem to benefit the Clippers immediate needs much.

fashowclips
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why is this even on here? clips aint even looking at him

Hooch20
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They may not be looking at him, but if I'm the Clips I do this in a heartbeat. League wide I'd guess that Smith has better value than Kaman and for me this move would be about getting the better asset. We then either go with Smith to start the season and see how that goes or move him to a 3rd team.

LuvMeSumMEE
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The biggest problem is that Josh Smith won't play his part. He murks people in the paint, but every time you watch him play he's passing up driving lanes to cast up bricks from 15-20 feet out. He never saw a bad shot that he didn't absolutely love. Getting this guy to excel in the post is like politely asking a wet dog to not mess up your white carpet.

At this point, I don't even care. I can live with Smith for next year and one more season. At worst, he keeps the seat warm for a developmental player. One thing I do know.......Smith n' DJ would pretty much ensure that there won't be any trespassing in the paint for a couple years, and even if you do get a shot off.......it'll be pure luck if it goes in.......so Blake would end up having video game rebound stats. The Clipper offense would be stagnant late in games because everyone would pack the paint. Whatever. If there was a standup shooter behind Smith, then it could work.

If you need a 3, then you need a 3. Just get somebody...

ClipThemOff
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thought this thread was dead.. you are right on point my man.

LuvMeSumMEE
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Ooops. I just joined last night. That was my first post. I just saw that some people had commented that day, so I had to throw my 2 cents in I guess.

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