Uh oh revisited...

Clippers TopBuzz Forum/Message Board » Clippers News & General Discussions
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Author Search This Topic:
 
hoopcoach98
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 5
votes: 0

At the great risk of sounding repetitive, I feel that the Clippers "powers that be..."made a huge mistake by not acquiring AI.

Some may feel that offering Shaun in addition to Corey was a price TOO high to accept; but let's look upon the brighter side. This trade would have given us a bonafide SUPERSTAR...With this luxury in mind, AI's electricity and status would have given the effort to make the Clippers Los Angeles' team.

For those of you who are skeptics, please tell me why we should turn our backs on this idea because AI 's character has gotten a "bum rap." This man has averaged 28.1 ppg and 8.2 apg over a 10 year career.

Can you imagine how many new fans AI's swagger would bring us?

jlemmen43
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1403
Location: Green Bay, WI
votes: 10

I think he would only be a short term solution. He still plays hard and productive despite his age, but I believe his character issues may get in the way down the road. I think the real problem with him being on this team would be Sam Cassell. Sam and him have the potential to clash big time. Im not saying it defintely would, but I have no doubts Cassell or Dunleavy would get tired of AI's ways.

Dont get me wrong, AI is a great player, but I believe trading two young studs, for AI is too much. We dont need a quick fix here, we need to be patient and get better. If Sam retires after next year and we havent won a championship, but win one in the following years because of his leadership and effort put into this team...that is the greatest reward Sam Cassell could have in his career.

Benoit_Benjamin
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 118
votes: 6

I totally agree that the Clippers made a huge mistake in not trading for Allen Iverson. Having a guy like Iverson drawing attention from opposing teams would make the jobs of Brand, Cassell, Thomas, Kaman, and Mobley so much easier. There are many reasons why the Clippers blew it when it comes to Allen Iverson.

1) The price was right!

Trading Livingston and Maggette would not have been too much to get a proven All-Star player who has shown no signs of slowing down. If Livingston's potential won basketball games, the Clippers would be undefeated. So far, Livingston hasn't shown me anything. Yeah, a flash here and a flash there, but this is his third year in the league! I don't care that he was drafted out of high school or that he's had a few injuries in his first couple of years. He's had enough games under his belt to show without a doubt that he's going to a great player, and I don't see that in him. A lot of people like him because of his height. Penny Hardaway was another point guard who had height and a lot of potential and turned out to be just another good player. Unfortunately, that's about all I see Livingston turning out to be...a Penny Hardaway type player. A good player but not a once in a lifetime player like Iverson.

A lot of people like Maggette (me included) but some people overate him. He's on the trading block at the moment and take a look at what teams are offering for him. Guys like Brent Barry and James Posey?? NBA teams do their homework and know what players are worth. Yyes, teams are trying to lowball the Clippers at the moment, but I don't think the names of players are going to get that much better. Remember, the Clippers only made the playoffs once during Corey's Clipper career and that was the year that he missed more than half the season. Maybe this wasn't a coincidence. He could have been packaged with Livingston and gotten a great player.

In addition, with the package of Maggette and Livingston, the Clippers may have been able to avoid throwing in their two first round picks. These two picks, in addition to the rights to the Greek center and Diaz from prior drafts, would have given the Clippers young players with potential to go with the proven veterans they have.

2) The Clippers need to think "short-term"!

After last season, the Clippers were getting attention from the media and fans. There was excitement and the Clippers were being talked about as darkhorse championship contenders going into this season. However, the Clippers are now the league's biggest dissapointment. Some say that we have to give the young players on this team (Livingston and Kaman) the chance to grow. The bad news is Elton Brand is only signed for two and a half more seasons. If the Clippers don't show him that they can compete for a championship during that time, is he going to re-sign with them? Elton is a great guy, but thinking he'll resign with a bad team is highly optimistic. The Clippers need to produce on the court and give Brand, and future free agents, a reason to want to play for this team.

3) Iverson will prove people wrong!

Many people don't like Iverson because of his off court behavior and personality. But he plays his butt off on the court. Some say he's selfish, but Philly never put enough players around him to make him willing to share the ball. His second option during his Philly days were guys like Jerry Stackhouse (when he was too young to be much help), Chris Webber (when he was too old to be much help), Toni Kukoc, Keith Van Horn, and Derrick Coleman. Do any of these guys instill fear in an opposing team? When the Nuggets get back to full strength, Iverson is going to show what he can do with good players surrounding him.

4) The Clippers are terrible drafters!

Quick, name a Clipper draft choice that has turned into a NBA star. You can't do it because there are none. Guys like Lamar Odom and Danny Manning are good NBA players, but that's it - good. The Clippers have drafted guys more like Bo Kimble, Terry Dehere, Reggie William, and Yaroslav Korolev. The Clippers best players have been aquired in trades. Mark Jackson, Ron Harper, and current players Elton Brand, Corey Maggette, and Sam Cassell, were all aquired in trades. I would take a sure thing like Iverson over waiting to see if a Clipper draft choice finally makes it to NBA star level.

I was extremely dissapointed when I turned on the computer and saw that Iverson was going to Denver. The Clippers had a chance to do something big and get someone who could have moved them into an elite team in the league. Instead, they chose to stand pat and talk about their potential...the same "potential" that the team and fans have been talking about for so long. The kind of talk that made many people say, "Yep, they teased us last year but they are just the same old Clippers."

jlemmen43
Clipper All-Star
 Avatar
Posts: 1403
Location: Green Bay, WI
votes: 10

Hmm...Benoit, while I admire you enthusiasm and ability to debate, I disagree with points 1 and 2. We kinda disagree a lot, but thats ok. as far as point 1: I believe the reason for Livingston's so-called underacheiving is the result of him being an unconventional PG and the Clippers coaching staff unable to figure out the best way to use him. Look at how many times he's in and out of the starting lineup. There hasnt been much consistency. If the Clips give up on Livingston after three years and he develops into a great player for another team in a few years...then ooops we didnt give him enough time. And its not like he's been counted on to be our #1 PG. Cassell is still here and we still need a fast, small PG that can defend. Give him a chance yet. On the other hand Maggette has said he wants out whenever that opportunity arrives, so dealing him probably needs to be done sooner than later, despite our wishes.

To point #2...we do have short term fixes we need to take care of, but the Spurs and Pistons didnt get to where they are by focusing on short term goals. They took the time to combine veterans with young, developing players and look where they are today. I've seen the Bucks tear their team apart year after year for what?? Nothing. It takes more than 1 year of success to get anywhere. I have no doubt Iverson would have done great with us...maybe we would have gotten deep in the playoffs again...but the cornestones of this franchise have been set in place, and all thats left to do is move forward. The team may need another year or so to become a dominant team. What the hell did we draft Livingston for if we arent gonna take the due time to develop him. He will be re-evaluated after this season anyways... I say let this season determine what the Clips are willing to give him in the off-season. I used to be a Lakers fan before a Clippers fan....and i waited a good while (since the days before Kobe and Shaq when it was Van Exel, eddie Jones and Ced Ceballos) for them to win a championship. It took them some time, and while they tuned up by adding Ron Harper and Brian Shaw and others...they kept the team intact for the most part. Rick Fox wasnt that special. Derek Fisher was an average PG at best. Devean George was never a superstar. I'm sure Lakers fans were hoping one of them would be traded for something great...but they already had their pieces in place. The less spectacular players figured out their roles and the team won in the end. We just need someone to step up and play to their potential. We already have Brand. We need someone to become the Kobe to Elton. They believed in Kobe. I hope the Clippers believe in the pieces they worked hard to establish. We all want success for this team right away...but trading for Iverson may bring us forward a year or two, but where will he take us when he's on the downswing of his career or has a character issue with himself, the community or teammates. The Clippers have worked hard to build a blue-collar, strong-character team here and I hope they aim to keep it that way. Iverson, may be a great ball-player, but he has shown very little respect towards himself, his family, and his past team. A man who can't control himself off the court, is hard to count on when on the court.

Well thats just my opinion. Hope we can have some more debates as the year goes on, Benoit!! its good for the mind.

TGMosesVI
Clipper 6th Man
Posts: 121
Location: Los Angeles
votes: 4

Anyone who's honest knows that we don't know anything. We can't say with certainty what AI will or won't do in Denver, only what our inclinations are. I think it's a bit early to start pinning blame around for not signing AI; you have to see where AI takes Denver from here on in the post season.

Just look at Artest. After his honeymoon with Sacramento he's been seen feuding with the coach, feuding with Bibby, and outright spending time away to promote his new rap CD. It's hard to say Sacramento is now a better team with Artest because now they look like a nowhere team.

JamFan
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 2375
votes: 22

Well, Livingston is still young, and will be a great PG one day, but not in Dumleavy's system. The problem is that 99% of the time, Coach has this team working a slow down, pass the ball around, eventually pound it in offense. Livingston or AI, or any point guard for that matter, does not flourish in that type of system. Great PG's flourish on a team that is pushing the ball and striking more quickly. This team could literally use two shooting guards for the style of play that Dumleavy wants to run. The only difference AI would have made is that he would have eventually ignored Dumleavy and started to run the Clippers offense his way. Push the ball, quick strike. The team would have benifitted from this change. Right now opposing team defenses are not pressured by the Clippers. They can come down the floor at a slow pace set themelves up, zone or sag, and its OK because the Clips are not doing anything very fast anyways. Livingston slowly dribbles the ball up the floor, makes a safe, slow, pass to a random player and then strolls away to the other side of the floor. And nothing happens. Well sometimes it does. But this style of play is old school, while the rest of the NBA is going an uptempo game that is more fun to watch.

Miquel
Clipper All-Star
Posts: 1853
Location: Barcelona
sp.gif
votes: 16

AI would score in every type of system, with every coach...I doubt if Livi could someday average more than 15 points...He has to find a way to score easily.He must be more agressive when he goes to the basket.Despite being very tall, he's very quick so, as he hasn't got any type of outside shooting, he must penetrate and find situations near the basket...

hoopcoach98
Clipper D-League Pickup
Posts: 5
votes: 0

Character issues???

First and foremost, if AI's lifestyle was the one depicted by the media, He would NOT be in the League. I remember when the new dress code was announced, the media's thinking was that "the Answer" would be the first, and most often, violator. I don't think so...

Let's get away from thinking that his tatoos, his crew, etc. is what AI is about. Remember that the NBA is image orientated. David Stern believes the meer appearance of impropriety will not be tolerated.

True enough, AI has had some problems off the court. However, if it had not been Allen Iverson, we would never have known about manyof those disputes because the media would not have been there to report them!!

Let's not forget how many of his problems occurred when he was a teen-ager; probably hanging around the wrong crowd...

If your character is rotten, you do not get into Georgetown, John Thompson would not tolerate it. AI's Mother is not going to tolerate it.

Allen Iverson has used his huge salary to help so many of the less fortunate. I saw him give a $100 bill to a homeless person on the Venice Boardwalk.

In conclusion, Sam Cassell would not be a problem; that is a thought that the media put in your. Sam has rings, AI wants rings-case closed. All teammates do not but heads like Kobe and the "Big Brokedown" did. You under estimate what a ring means to the players...

By the way, you refer to Corey and Shaun as "Young Studs"...

AI is 31, I can not recall when 31 was considered old in this league.

jlemmen43
Clipper All-Star
 Avatar
Posts: 1403
Location: Green Bay, WI
votes: 10

Persons with character would not say the whole "Practice...we're talking about practice." That whole little debacle shows his disrespect for his coach at the time. It's not the tattoos or hair. Its the attitude. He actually reminds me a lot of Chad Johnson in the NFL. They both can back up their attitudes with their play on the field or court...but they lack character which is evidenced by the things they say in the media. I am in no way degrading the way AI plays basketball...I'm saying if I were the Clipper's GM, I'd pass on Iverson because of the reasons I've listed before.

Regardless...we dont have AI, we dont need AI...it would be nice to have him...but we dont. Lets move on. "Rings" have been won with less talent than we have on our team. This Clippers team is a talented bunch...its just a matter of putting it all together and never saying die.

You're right 31 isnt that old.

Go To the Top of the ThreadGo Home

or Comment Using FB

Post new topic   Reply to topic


← Clippers Blogs

→ "Dumb-leavy" - Talent Evaluator

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

register
You are an anonymous user- Register now!


Follow our Los Angeles Clippers RSS Feed, plus the Clippers Rumors RSS Feed, the LA Clippers News RSS feed, and the Clippers Forum RSS feed to get the newest updated Clippers News and Trade Rumors plus Clippers Game update in your RSS/XML reader!